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Cardarine long term effects

kurt1776

New member
Considering Cardarine (GW 501516). I'm an endurance athlete and really like the idea that Cardarine doesn't affect hormones so no need for PCT. However what's the catch? Let's say I took this everyday with no breaks.

There's a whole bunch of forum info on this compound, but is long term use safe and popular in the sport? It's 2017 and are people using it in comp. despite a WADA ban or is there a new compound on the rise? Of course nothing is as tried and tested as EPO, and Testosterone. But perhaps Cardarine is accumulting more studies since it's emergence. If any of y'all are in the know, I'd be appreciative.
 
I don't believe there has been any human studies. GSK stopped doing research on it due to cancer risks on mice. The only studies we will have will be from the underground. The pharmaceutical companys won't play with it anymore. Hopefully they are studying a PPAR receptor agonist that will be more promising.
 
I've used this, and it really is the magic diet pill. Especially if you are actually working out. In the beginning, I had to play with the dosage. I weigh 265 right now, and most supps, I have to double dose. Not this. I had a buddy recommend 20mg per day. At this dose, I could literally see the fat decrease. But in the gym, I was instantly winded, and could barely keep up. I started doing somewhere along the lines of 5mg per day. The results were amazing. I could run a mile, followed by a 20 minute circuit in the weight room, followed by an hour of high intensity heavy bag work. No issues. The fat loss was definitely more noticeable when working out to the extreme. Play with the dosage, find out what works for you. But I recommend using it as a pre-workout about 45 mins before a workout.
 
Q&A for OL UK SUP3R-SHRED
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Olympus labs has dropped this new product. Natty version of cardarine
 
Ask yourself why a Pharma company would shy away from millions of dollars in profit from an approved drug? GSK dropped it for a reason. When that reason contains the word "cancer" - no thanks, but we're all aldults - do what your rank can handle :D Your best bet is to actually poke around on long distance running / cycling forums - as this is where GW was supposed to shine. My recollection from hearing a second hand account on cyclist feedback, was that it isn't "all that". IIRC, blood pressure drop was the only thing most people could agree on, that it did well.
 
Logically, So a natty version of GW would be equally if not more useless.

Not necessarily. 'Cycling Bros' aren't any more reliable than 'Gym Bros' :D Again, going off memory, I think it was like 50/50 on 'better endurance' or not... so can't really make a call, ya know?

The only thing I'd say about a natty version, is the rat data suggests an HED of 32mg/kg.
 
Edit. This may be the cough medicine removing my filters (irony) but Im feeling a bit feisty and do not mean to come across as too crass.

Well, aside from the Pharmaceutical industry (hate them), other companies saw 'value' in it, even after I would hope they researched the 'cancer scare'. Of which I am not really a believer, so this is not to castigate doubt on any one company, but to make a point.

Big Pharma really seems to care about their customers by putting out safe drugs...

1. Mirapex - for "Restless Leg Syndrome"

Sides: "Hallucinations may occur..., increased gambling, sexual, or other overpowering urges."

2. Abilify - Bipolar Disorder, Schizophrenia

Sides: "Possible Coma or Death.. and trouble swallowing."

3. Flomax - treating large prostate

Sides: "Runny nose, dizziness, decreased semen."

4. Alli - Weight Loss Aid

Sides: "These changes may include gas with oily discharge, increased bowel movements, and an urgent need to have them, and an inability to control them."

5. Veramysyt - Allergies

Sides: "Nasal sores, glaucoma (Yay), cataracts, and nasal fungal infection."
Even the advertisement states, the way Veramysyt works is not fully understood...

SO MUCH FOR R&D.

6. Ortho-Novum - Birth Control Pill

Sides: "Benign but dangerous liver tumors. These benign liver tumors can rupture and cause internal bleeding. In addition, some studies report an increased risk of developing liver CANCER."

7. Advair - (Wife took this for Asthma)

Sides: Asthma related death. Are you fuccking kidding?!!!

8. Chantix - Here is one I was going to take to quit smoking instead of going cold turkey.

Sides: That doesn’t sound so bad, except “sleep disturbance” is more like psychotic nightmares that persist even after you stop taking the pill. To wit:

By night four, my dreams began to take on characteristics of a David Cronenberg movie. Every time I’d drift off, I’d dream that an invisible, malevolent entity was emanating from my air conditioner, which seemed to be rattling even more than usual. I’d nap for twenty minutes or so before bolting awake with an involuntary gasp. I had the uneasy sense that I wasn’t alone.

Did we mention the killing of yourslef? Another side effect is, “suicide ideation”

Like a spoiled teenager, I’d suddenly uproot drawers from the bureau, push all the belongings off shelves with a sudden swat of the arm, smash a glass against the wall, and then the crying would take over yet again. Meanwhile, the room seemed to be pulsing and reverberating around me, and my eye would keep zeroing in on objects-the television, the AC, a pair of shoes-and feel as though they were somehow buzzing with life and gleefully watching me endure the biggest meltdown I’d ever had. I had somehow ruined myself, and suicide seemed like a good way to avoid the embarrassment of this fact’s being exposed.

10. Accutain - acne

Sides:
* depressed mood, trouble concentrating, sleep problems, crying spells, aggression or agitation, changes in behavior, hallucinations, thoughts of suicide or hurting yourself;
* sudden numbness or weakness, especially on one side of the body;
* blurred vision, sudden and severe headache or pain behind your eyes, sometimes with vomiting;
* hearing problems, hearing loss, or ringing in your ears;
* seizure (convulsions);
* severe pain in your upper stomach spreading to your back, nausea and vomiting, fast heart rate;
* loss of appetite, dark urine, clay-colored stools, jaundice (yellowing of the skin or eyes);
* severe diarrhea, rectal bleeding, black, bloody, or tarry stools;
* fever, chills, body aches, flu symptoms, purple spots under your skin, easy bruising or bleeding; or
* joint stiffness, bone pain or fracture.

But hey, at least you don’t have pimples!

Excuse me while I don't trust Big Pharma.

I can cite the study with cancer and go into the details if desired, but I think it was shelved because of other reasons. Certainly not cancer. Unless you think introducing tumors in rats, then dosing far higher than any translatable HED to be a fair comparison for a conclusion.

The study I had linked is now a dead link...


HED
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Falling back to this, regarding value and effectiveness of the product.
Or is there something at play here that is systemic of the industry requiring a serious oversight?

OL UK
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/olympus-uk/270428-official-ol-uk.html

Which will it be? Either it has value and is scientifically researched enough to sell to the public or it isn't.
I'm of the opinion the researchers at OL UK know the truth about GW and the study related to cancer.
(There is no relationship to cancer at all for humans)

If it doesn't work why would WADA ban it? Safety? Lol. BS.
Unless you are a competing athlete under the ruling of WADA, I would suggest logging it for yourself.

If you have low T and qualify from your doc for TRT, then that would be something to investigate.
 
Dude, please tell me you're not counting on the benevolence of the American Free Market, are you? I'm pretty up on calculating HED. I get it, "the poison is in the dose". The lowest HED dose would be from the Female Rats using 3mg/kg. 3mg/kg (rat) x 6 (km factor rat) = 18 / 37 (km factor human) = ~0.48mg/kg. A 100 kilo man would need 48mg... a 150lb'er: 32mg. I saw up to 21mg in some posts. Too close for me, but have at it.

BTW, the mouse and rat study were BY GSK Researchers (Note: "Safety Assesment, GlaxoSmithKline"), and cancer was exactly why it was pulled. See:

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Good 'Layman' write up IMO:

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Dude, please tell me you're not counting on the benevolence of the American Free Market, are you? I'm pretty up on calculating HED. I get it, "the poison is in the dose". The lowest HED dose would be from the Female Rats using 3mg/kg. 3mg/kg (rat) x 6 (km factor rat) = 18 / 37 (km factor human) = ~0.48mg/kg. A 100 kilo man would need 48mg... a 150lb'er: 32mg. I saw up to 21mg in some posts. Too close for me, but have at it.

BTW, the mouse and rat study were BY GSK Researchers (Note: "Safety Assesment, GlaxoSmithKline"), and cancer was exactly why it was pulled. See:

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No. I realized that, and my post wasn't just for you, so respect given to your knowledge of course. The problem now facing this discussion is.

If that study was NOT tanked on purpose by introducing tumors into the mice who's life span is only 2 years, and the amount of product given them was not obscenely large, why would OL UK offer such a product to market in cap form?

One cannot have it both ways my man, or was it severely under dosed? For "Safety".
 
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No. I realized that, and my post wasn't just for you, so respect given to your knowledge of course. The problem now facing this discussion is.

If that study was NOT tanked on purpose by introducing tumors into the mice who's life span is only 2 years, and the amount of product given them was not obscenely large, why would OL UK offer such a product to market in cap form?

One cannot have it both ways my man, or was it severely under dosed? For "Safety".

It's still for sale all over - cigarettes can give you cancer too. 4-methylimidazole (4-MEI) is in soda. You seem to be hung up on the fact that just because it was for sale as a dietary supplement (which was huge gamble for this category, and it didn't last long), that it is safe long term?

GW-501516
$59.99
10mg/ml 30ml bottle
47 in stock (can be backordered)
 
It's still for sale all over - cigarettes can give you cancer too. 4-methylimidazole (4-MEI) is in soda. You seem to be hung up on the fact that just because it was for sale as a dietary supplement (which was huge gamble for this category, and it didn't last long), that it is safe long term?

In the USA. Not available. FDA (Hammer)
Yeah. Cigs. Don't get me started on those. Still don't believe GW is anywhere in that realm of the cancer. Not even close.

A gamble though? Either OL ignored the research and was irresponsible or they know it better than anyone and thought it bs.

I side with OL on this.

Cheers my man.
Respect.
 
No offense to OL or big pharma but when there is a profit incentive you'd be surprised what people would do. Although I work on wall street so maybe I just see the worst in every company.
 
Then these bastards continue to punish us with their medications without proper ethics or reasoning!

Check out these videos. (Not SRS)
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First, cancer risks are only associated with one study done at extremely high doses. Kinda like drowninh from too much exposure to water. Not the waters fault. Second, this is a nice 16 week agent, and the reason you'd take time off is to clear your receptors. Finally, a benefit Ive experienced is better lipid blood work, but I cant say its causal. Rather, correlaratioin between higher cardio output and lipid utilization. End of the day, Id just do 12 to 16 weeks and take 4 off.
 
Not going to comment on the exact compound at hand, just something amusing I noticed.

The blindly anti-pharma crowd will simultaneously make convenient and opposite arguments about rat safety studies:

-That Cardarine study showing the risk of cancer in rats was at doses way higher than any human is ever going to take are meaningless. (Even though they're actually barely outside the human dosing range, giving the compound an apparent narrow therapeutic range, which is something pharma's are terrified of)

-Those sugar substitue studies showing side effects in rats at doses that are ACTUALLY way higher than any human is ever going to eat are obviously just the FDA being bribed to allow dangerous ingredients on the market, the compounds are highly toxic and have to be avoided at all costs.
 
long post about various drugs and side effects.

There's something you have to realize about acceptable side effect profiles on drugs.

-A lack of alternative treatments (If there's no other drug available to treat a serious disease, more side effects will be allowed)
-Severe risk to the patient or others if treatment isn't made available (A lot of bipolar disorder type drugs fall under this)
-The drug being a 'last ditch' effort to treat something when alternatives have failed (Lots of very harsh cancer drugs fit here)
-The drug being an option for patients to very strongly consider before taking. (Things like Accutane, where nobody wants to prescribe it, but a lot of patients will choose to endure it to get rid of their nodular acne.)

The circumstances surrounding the use of a drug dictate the acceptable side effects related to the drug.

It's all about weighing the improved patient quality of life vs. the possible harm.

If you think everyone working at big pharma are just corporate whores out to make piles of money, you're needlessly disillusioned.

At the same time, they're obviously going to make market decisions on what drugs to push to market, and which to not push to market.

Even in the largest cases of unforeseen side effects in pharma drugs, I'd challenge you to find a case where the quality of life increases of that drug did not exceed the side effects. And I realize I'm commoditizing the live of people who die due to drug side effects when I'm saying that, but there's not really much of an alternative when looking at health issues?
 
Allow me to diverge slightly here from the Cardarine / Cancer Issue and Wada.

Let's talk DEA and it's classification of MJ. A drug that can reduce tumors and treat cancer patient's needs in so many ways, yet is illegal. Cigarettes ironically are legal. Pharma and Big Tobacco have the best lobbyists in DC. If I had to choose two great reasons to despise the "war on drugs" it would be this.

I won't stop here. How about the former head of Scotland Yard who wants all drugs to be legal?
There is an organization including many officers of the law who agree.

What about prescription pain medications that are given to cancer patients? Morphine, with all of it's horrendous sides are worse than what it is given to passivate. Marijuana would have easily helped. (In the case of both my parents, who died from cancer). My father was military and was given experimental treatments which caused horrible sores all over his body. They had no problems prescribing sh1t that caused him undue pain, yet since we live in a backwards ass state (FL), no medicinal Marijuana.

I don't trust. don't like. actually, I despise big pharma, and with good reason. Doctors prescribe the sh1t the reps push on them like drug dealers. It's what is coming out next to replace the next cash cow which is going generic. I know someone way up in that industry. I like him, not what he does.

---
I'm all for self-medicating after self-educating.
Do your research, take your chances. Live *your* life the way you want to.
 
I can tell you're up to date on policy since you seem unaware Florida literally just legalized medical marijuana

Thank you,I'm aware of that. My parents died in tandem 3, and 4 years ago respectively. Unfortunately it wasn't legal then. They most definitely would qualify today, but it's another thing to get the doctor to prescribe it. In two years it will be recreational here, just like Colorado.

Just too late for them.
 
Doses WAS NOT that high. It's HED is 0.8mg/kg. So stop making bull****! Because there were no data published - we will never know when cancer has developed, 2 years for rat is an old age. Also never seen real data that said how long test was running, so saying 2 years is without proof. But as i always say - water is VERY dangerous, you take too much and you're dead. The same applies to almost anything.
Cancer is NOT disease it's a inevitable part of life and errors of our body repair system. So we will ALL get cancer, but not all will live to to that age to experience it.
 
Regardless of all this, I see it like cigarettes.

Cigarettes/nicotine are carcinogenic.

If we see this carefully, the studies were done for 104 weeks, with no monitoring in between to see when people were still healthy versus normal.

Two cigarettes a day is one thing, 20 cigarettes (one pack) a day is another, 200 cigarettes per day is something else.

Humans usually take 20 mg a day, right? So, that means for an 80 kg person, that is 0.25 mg a day.

0.25 a day is different than 2.5 a day (which did cause cancer), which is different than 25 or 30 mg a day, etc.

It must all be unhealthy for you, but the question is how unhealthy?
 
Regardless of all this, I see it like cigarettes.

Cigarettes/nicotine are carcinogenic.

If we see this carefully, the studies were done for 104 weeks, with no monitoring in between to see when people were still healthy versus normal.

Two cigarettes a day is one thing, 20 cigarettes (one pack) a day is another, 200 cigarettes per day is something else.

Humans usually take 20 mg a day, right? So, that means for an 80 kg person, that is 0.25 mg a day.

0.25 a day is different than 2.5 a day (which did cause cancer), which is different than 25 or 30 mg a day, etc.

It must all be unhealthy for you, but the question is how unhealthy?
One, there was more than one study, and some had shorter durations than 104 weeks.

Two, the HED was actually equivalent to 2-3x the 25mg dose that people run, which is nowhere near a good factor of safety, as even that low dose was not found to be safe. Typically, a factor of safety of 10 is recommended to start based on the lowest safe dose. We don’t have a lowest safe dose, and we know that ~75mg HED isn’t “safe,” so our “safe” staffing dose would have to be under 7.5mg, perhaps even less.
 
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