Botch
Active member
:goodpost: I agree Kraftkid.
Carb Cycling
- Thread starter kraftkid
- Start date
:goodpost: I agree Kraftkid.
Botch
Active member
I have also heard of the radical diet but don't know anyone that has done it. I agree you have to hit the carbs that work for you on the carb up or else you'll go into a coma and be couch bound for the weekend. For me the good carbs happen to be oats, pasta, wheat breads, potatoes, and I'll maybe add a cookie here and there but if I sit and have like 10 donuts I'll be on the couch for sure. I'm addicted to cereal and I love milk but milk doesn't love me. It makes me a bloated mess. As long as I keep the carb ups clean I do alright though. T-bone, I also like how I feel during the week better than on the weekend. Oh yeah, and if its a carb-up my girlfriend knows to crack the windows because it gets pretty gassy!
kraftkid
Member
Botch have you tried Hood's Calorie Countdown milk??? AWESOME. They have a high protein, low sugar chocolate milk with is like bodybuilding's holy grail. Highly recommend. I know they carry at Sweet Bay (used to be Kash and Karry).
T-Bone
Banned
I use it all the time. It is great, especially mixed with MRP low-carb or any protein for that matter. Makes a great thick shake consistancy!.
T-Bone
Banned
Once in a while I do eat some crap. The majority of my carbs I get from starches. Carbs bother me in general though. It doesn't really matter their source. I have irritable bowel syndrome and this diet is the only one I have tried that actually makes the symptoms go away. I deal with it on my carb up because it is very short lived. Don't think I haven't tried different carbs. I have and it seems they all effect my stomach the same way. Oatmeal= gas, bloating, tired within 10-15 after. White Pasta- gas, bloating, tired within 10-15 min after. Wheat pasta-gas, bloating, tired within 10-15 after. I have been dealing with this my entire life, it was only about 5 years ago that I discoverd the Metabolic Diet and had some relief(besides the various medications that I was formerly on).
kraftkid
Member
A bit off thread, but my buddy has similar issues and started taking Miralax every night. Has worked wonders for him. He also chews whole flax seeds all day long and this helps as well.
Leggo my Ego
Well-known member
Hey T-Bone, Have you ever been tested for Type 2 Diabetes or insulin resistance? An interesting thing to do would be to test your Blood glucose during your carb up. I've done this a few times out of curiosity.
T-Bone
Banned
Yes I have been tested for type 2. My father has it. I posted my blood results on here actually.
T-Bone
Banned
I tried the Radical Diet out for a few weeks. I went as low as 800 calories on my lower carb portion of the diet. I didn't have any problems with workouts and also did increase my strength somewhat on some lifts and kept the same on others. I didn't stay on it very long as I did lose energy after a while. You are not meant to stay on it long though, its a short term diet to lose as much fat as possible. 8 weeks is the longest you should ever stay on it. I must say I do like The Metabolic Diet a lot better though. I like the way it keeps my head straight also.
Botch
Active member
I haven't tried it but I've looked for it before in the local grocery stores in town. I live in a small town and don't have access to a lot of stuff so I'm jealous of you guys. But it sounds delicious and hopefully I'll come across it someday.
T-Bone
Banned
They have it at Wally world.
kraftkid
Member
Been on this diet for several weeks now and I really love it. Both physically and mentally, it works great.
I am trimming down (mostly inches off waist) and not losing nearly as much muscle as when on straight no carb diet.
Mentally, it is great being able to have carbs on the weekends, but after a couple carb ups, i really don't even craze the junk any more.
I highly recommend.
I am trimming down (mostly inches off waist) and not losing nearly as much muscle as when on straight no carb diet.
Mentally, it is great being able to have carbs on the weekends, but after a couple carb ups, i really don't even craze the junk any more.
I highly recommend.
CryingEmo
Well-known member
I've been using cleaner sources for carb ups; lower GI carbs wth fiber content. Kashi Go Lean cereal, Old Fashioned Oatmeal, blue berries, ezikiel bread. I feel way better when I carb up with these than if I ate a bunch of crap. Infact, today, after my refeed, I feel like a million bucks, and I got minimal sleep last night.
celc5
Well-known member
I read the Anabolic Diet pdf at all of your suggestions. Man it was quite a shock to this pasta eating Italian :whiner: I'm sure I'll have some things to discuss eventually, but I want to get my thoughts together first.
How in the world can you guys afford this much fresh meat? Seriously, I spend about $50-75 /week on frozen meats. I have a feeling my sodium intake is probably too high in this regard.
How in the world can you guys afford this much fresh meat? Seriously, I spend about $50-75 /week on frozen meats. I have a feeling my sodium intake is probably too high in this regard.
kraftkid
Member
The nice thing is you dont have to buy the leanest cuts which are typically more expensive. I get a lot of ground chuck, steaks, bacon.
I have also cut back some on supplements since I am getting so much dietary protein.
Try it, you will amazed how quickly your pasta cravings will go and even if they don't you can hit it hard on the weekend!
celc5
Well-known member
I'm still thinking about it. It's on the shelf for the time being because I have a phera cycle coming up and I want my carbs during the cycle and post cycle therapy until hormones are in check again.
Have you seen any bloodwork on the lipid values after being on the diet for a few months? The book says that these values would improve on AD. I'm sure the author would understand people questioning such a bold statement.
CryingEmo
Well-known member
90/10 Natures Promise ground beef was on sale at giant for 3 bucks a LB. So I bought everything they had: 5 lb's. That's 15 bucks. 2 18 packs of eggs, 5 bucks. Whey protein for a week, maybe 10 bucks worth, cheese, 5 bucks. Theres a week of protein for about 35, half of what you are suggesting. Also includes most of fats, minus olive oil, fish oils, flax seeds, etc. Much cheaper than when you eat all 3 macro's.
kraftkid
Member
I have a lot of experience with higher fat/low carb diets. His statement is not that bold really. Aitkens diets have repeatedly shown to improve lipid profiles.
I have seen in my own bloodwork repeatedly, improvements and my 72 year old father went from bordeline needing cholesterol meds to not needing them becuase of this type of diet.
Botch
Active member
Often times I pick up whatever meat is on sale at the grocery store. Last week there was a deal for a huge prime rib roast marked down from $50 to $20! I finished it within the week, and I can honestly say that I don't want anything to do with prime rib for a while hahaha.
CryingEmo
Well-known member
Ok, they now have Hood Calorie Countdown 2% Milk at Giant!
I bought 2 64 ounce cartons.
Macro Breakdown:
8 ounces (1 cup)
5 grams of fat
5 grams of protein
3 carbs
What I do is meassure out a half of cup (1.5) carbs, add 1-2 ounces of water, then 1 scoop of IsoPure zerocarb Cookies and Cream protein powder. 2 TBLspoons milled flaxseed.
This tastes like a milkshake, and with only 2.0-2.5 carbs.
The Chocolate Milk has 5 carbs per cup, so not too bad either.
The hood milk tastes alot like whipping cream, fricking delicious.
I bought 2 64 ounce cartons.
Macro Breakdown:
8 ounces (1 cup)
5 grams of fat
5 grams of protein
3 carbs
What I do is meassure out a half of cup (1.5) carbs, add 1-2 ounces of water, then 1 scoop of IsoPure zerocarb Cookies and Cream protein powder. 2 TBLspoons milled flaxseed.
This tastes like a milkshake, and with only 2.0-2.5 carbs.
The Chocolate Milk has 5 carbs per cup, so not too bad either.
The hood milk tastes alot like whipping cream, fricking delicious.
kraftkid
Member
CryingEmo
Well-known member
1 or 2 cups a day won't hurt. And you still have 20 carbs left to fill if you want. Personally I've been getting my carbs with spinach and tomatoes. 2 ounces of tomatoes yeilds like 1.5 carbs. I think botch said 3.5 cups of spinach is 1 carb. But nothing wrong with 1 cup of hoods chocolate milk with a greesy angus burger and cheese... baaahhahaha
Leggo my Ego
Well-known member
:blink:
Botch
Active member
Eating large quantities of fat in the presence of insulin is what screws with lipids and triglycerides. If you were eating a daily super sized double quarter pounder meal at McDonalds then you would be pretty unhealthy. But that is not the case with this diet since we aren't eating the french fries, bun, etc. It is carbohydrates that are the culprit. In fact, if you were to get bloodtests throughout the week you would see the largest fluctuation in lipids and triglycerides on this diet during the carb up portion.
CryingEmo
Well-known member
:ntome:
celc5
Well-known member
Interesting... especially since you had bloodwork.
Let me try to understand this way of thinking... Because we are not primed to effeciently metabolize fat, we have negative repurcussions in terms of lipids with fat intake. Take away the carbs, fat metabolism efficiency improves. Therefore, less repurcussions with even increases in fat intake. :think: Am I on the right track?
CryingEmo
Well-known member
No I believe we are primed to metabolize fat, but not carbs as a MAIN energy source.
CHAPS
Registered User
What's working great for me is doing low days (off days) and medium days (training days) then 1 load day a week (high days), and only eat carbs in breakfast, pre and post-workout, teh rest of the time only eat protein+fat. So i'll eat 100g's on off days, 150g's on training days and 300g's or so on a load day.
CryingEmo
Well-known member
That's more like carb cycling. You are still a carb burner with this diet. But if it works for you, then stick with it.
celc5
Well-known member
THIS is more of what I think I could handle. I don't think I could psychologically handle the AD at this point... maybe I'm not hardcore enough, but I still want to learn about it :study:
T-Bone
Banned
That is what I thought at first. You have to go purchase "The Metabolic Diet". The Anabolic Diet was the first edition of this diet. The Metabolic Diet book is much more refined with a lot more information. I have been on the Diet for years and years. Also I have tried his "Radical Diet". I have went as low as 800 calories durning my low carb portion and still was gaining strength and losing fat. Its all about getting the diet down tight(details,details). Of course you get out of it what you put into it and I have slacked a lot since then. I went off of the diet a few months ago for about two months and I felt like crap. With the less carbs I have about 10 times more energy than I did when I was eating a carb-laden diet. I think clearer, my IBS symptoms are completely gone during the low carb portion. Everything about the diet is great. I have even talked on the phone personally with Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale.
Distilled Water
Board Sponsor
I love the anabolic diet. I hit the 3 week mark 2day so it should all really kick up a notch from here on out (from all that I've read).
I dont crave carbs at all anymore. If I see somthing that looks really good like PB&J, all I tell my self is "on saturday you can eat 5 of those if you want" and it gets me thru.
I really think that my arms have grown on this diet while loseing 10lbs. My shirts are also fitting tighter in my chest. waist is down a little less than 1.5". I feel great all the time.
Whats better than going to the movies on a friday night and getting a large popcorn and pepsi and actually feeling like your in the middle of a workout when you walk outta the movie? Then wake up the nest morning and feel full and dry?
I dont crave carbs at all anymore. If I see somthing that looks really good like PB&J, all I tell my self is "on saturday you can eat 5 of those if you want" and it gets me thru.
I really think that my arms have grown on this diet while loseing 10lbs. My shirts are also fitting tighter in my chest. waist is down a little less than 1.5". I feel great all the time.
Whats better than going to the movies on a friday night and getting a large popcorn and pepsi and actually feeling like your in the middle of a workout when you walk outta the movie? Then wake up the nest morning and feel full and dry?
CryingEmo
Well-known member
I agree, eggs and cheese are way more appealing than plain oatmeal.
I'm on day 23 myself. So 3 weeks, 2 days.
Botch
Active member
I love Saturday afternoons after the first few high carb meals because I look the leanest, hardest, and fullest that I did all week and I feel like a million bucks (usually all sedated from the carbs). :thumbsup:
skunkman
Member
Been a lurker for a couple years now. Decided that this would be a good thread to start posting to. I have been on the AD for 10 days, the first 6-7 days i felt really energized and dried out. I just finished my second meal today and i am kind of feeling sluggish. Curious as to how long it took for your energy levels to start leveling out? I know an old poster (tribulis sp?)at T-Nation said it took him about 6 weeks to start leveling energy wise.
It would also be nice to know how to use BCAA's on this type of diet considering that iit s protein sparing in nature.
It would also be nice to know how to use BCAA's on this type of diet considering that iit s protein sparing in nature.
Distilled Water
Board Sponsor
Dont! Use leucine solo around workout time.
BCAA can be converted to energy. This diet is very protein sparing in itself.
I made the mistake of picking up a bunch before I started my AD diet, O'well live and learn
skunkman
Member
Hormone Manipulation (Carb Cycling)
T-Bone, I have read the original AD and almost all of the thread at T-Nation but have yet to here some of the basic principles of the "Radical Diet".
I read somewhere that when cutting to take calories from fat but on such a low calorie approach it would not make sense to have 200 grams of protein on a 800 calorie day. I am assuming that one would keep the percentage of fat high as fat is your primary fuel source on this style of eating.
It would also to be wise to wave calories as 800 is not even enough for a little girl sitting on her ass all day. Something like 2500, 2000, 1500, 800?!!, 1500, 2000, 3000 for your carb up?
Anyone else with some input feel free to chime in.
T-Bone, I have read the original AD and almost all of the thread at T-Nation but have yet to here some of the basic principles of the "Radical Diet".
I read somewhere that when cutting to take calories from fat but on such a low calorie approach it would not make sense to have 200 grams of protein on a 800 calorie day. I am assuming that one would keep the percentage of fat high as fat is your primary fuel source on this style of eating.
It would also to be wise to wave calories as 800 is not even enough for a little girl sitting on her ass all day. Something like 2500, 2000, 1500, 800?!!, 1500, 2000, 3000 for your carb up?
Anyone else with some input feel free to chime in.
CryingEmo
Well-known member
You mean it will be converted through gluconeogensis. But what if you're on A.A.S?
ozarkaBRAND
Well-known member
So... we should sip nothing during workout? I love my BCAAs and don't want to part with them if'n I don't have to.
Distilled Water
Board Sponsor
Yes thats what I ment, thanks Emo.
A.A.S hrmmmmm not sure at all
Botch might know or Dinoiii
CryingEmo
Well-known member
If you're using like Xtend, and you do 2:1:1, and you do two servings. Thats about 7 grams of bcaa's that could potentially be gluconeogenic. So that's potential for 7 carbs. If you're eating very low carbs on that day, I don't see a problem with bcaa's. But i'd like to hear what botch has to say also.
T-Bone
Banned
Well the idea behind the Radical Diet is first you do your 11 days of low carbs or assesment phase and then the regular carb up of 12-48 hours. After that you lower your calories to 800-1200 for the low carb portion of the diet. At this point you set a goal for yourself of so much fat loss. Until you reach that goal, and not until you reach it do you do your next carb up. On your carb up you don't go over 2000 calories. Say you want to lose 7 pounds in two weeks, well you stay on the low carb portion till you reach that goal and then do the carb up. I wouldn't set a whole 7 pounds though, I would start with maybe 5 pounds. Keep in mind this diet is only meant for short term, 8 weeks to be exact.
Heres a quote,
"2. Once you’re fat adapted (i.e. your body depends mainly on both dietary and
body fat, not carbohydrates or muscle protein, to produce the energy it needs) you
can cut calories by cutting the amount of fat in your diet. As the amount of fat in the
diet naturally decreases, the body then uses body fat as its primary fuel."
You see so once you are fat adapted you also use fat on your body for fuel and not just dietary fat. So the reason you lower you fat intake is to burn body fat and not dietary fat. I have the E-book version of the Radical Diet. Like I said before though there are a lot of little details about it that you need to have the book to figure out. Maybe I'll email Mauro and see if I can get him to join this board and answer questions.
Distilled Water
Board Sponsor
4 sure, I know I wont be using any any time soon.
Kinda sucks because I'm sitting on 4 big tubs of Xtend, and 3 smaller ones :sad:
Kinda sucks because I'm sitting on 4 big tubs of Xtend, and 3 smaller ones :sad:
ozarkaBRAND
Well-known member
I don't know that I'd equate the gluconeogenesis of amino's as the equivelant to carbs...
Besides, 2 out of the three aminos in BCAAs (leucine, and isoleucine) are ketogenic aminos.
CryingEmo
Well-known member
Just don't go too crazy with BCAA's and you can use your xtend. Do like 4-6 scoops or something.
I think isoluecine can be either gluco or keto, depending on how you body handles it. So one serving yeilds 1.75 grams of valine, which is gluco, but in 6 scoops, that's only potentially 5.25 carbs in the worst case scenario.
skunkman
Member
So if i am fat adapted it would be best to keep my protein higher than fat so that my body will want to use body fat? Maybe 50/50? I am 234lbs and want to lose 24lbs. So i have some time until the weather starts getting nice. I think that i will stay on the original until i have a few carb ups under my belt. I here that they can get out of hand in the beginning especially if your going two weeks at a time with very little calories.
Also if anyone reading this thinks that they should start the radical diet right away, you should think twice as it may take up to 3 months until your fully fat adapted. You will feel even worse on low calories as your body has not fully made the metabolic shift from gas to diesel.:twisted:
Also if anyone reading this thinks that they should start the radical diet right away, you should think twice as it may take up to 3 months until your fully fat adapted. You will feel even worse on low calories as your body has not fully made the metabolic shift from gas to diesel.:twisted:
dinoiii
Featured Author
I have not read this thread yet; I am merely bookmarking as my name came up in a search here.
For those interested in this, you may find an article I wrote called "BodyOpus: Reloaded" (my tribute to Duchaine) of some benefit. I unfortunately cannot put links to the Lean Bulk forum any longer on here but if interested, the article probably comes to about 30-35 pages printed out. Sort of brings the 1996 phenom up to date.
Nonetheless, I will check back with this thread over the weekend and see what is being said.
D_
For those interested in this, you may find an article I wrote called "BodyOpus: Reloaded" (my tribute to Duchaine) of some benefit. I unfortunately cannot put links to the Lean Bulk forum any longer on here but if interested, the article probably comes to about 30-35 pages printed out. Sort of brings the 1996 phenom up to date.
Nonetheless, I will check back with this thread over the weekend and see what is being said.
D_
Botch
Active member
I'm going to try waving calories in a few months but it will be somewhat different than what you have written. Probably will have the ~800 cal days be on Monday and Friday w/ calories peaking midweek.
skunkman
Member
Considering two reputable people are doing or have done a VLCD version of this diet I am having second thoughts on my cut. I have kind of been toying with the idea of something like this:
Meal 1: Whey/Casein Blend Shake
Meal 2: 2 eggs 2 Cups Spinach
Meal 3: Whey/Casein Blend Shake
Meal 4: 1 Can Tuna 2 Cups Spinach
Meal 5:Whey/Casein Blend Shake (PW)
Between each meal I would consume about 6g of BCAA. This = 30g each day.
Fitdays says this is: 1056kcal, 51g Fat, 12CHO, 137Pro
One of my concerns of going so low in calories is catabolism. For anyone who has done such an approach about how much fat/ muscle would one expect to lose in a 6 week time frame?
I know on the velocity diet people have lost 16-20lbs of fat and a little muscle in 28 days.
Could similar results be expected from such a radical change in calories?
Can not wait for first CHO up on Sunday. Should be good! If i do not go into a coma.:burg::burg:
Oh yeah, as far as CHO ups on the Rad Diet is it the same idea as the AD. %60CHO, %30Fat, %10Pro
Meal 1: Whey/Casein Blend Shake
Meal 2: 2 eggs 2 Cups Spinach
Meal 3: Whey/Casein Blend Shake
Meal 4: 1 Can Tuna 2 Cups Spinach
Meal 5:Whey/Casein Blend Shake (PW)
Between each meal I would consume about 6g of BCAA. This = 30g each day.
Fitdays says this is: 1056kcal, 51g Fat, 12CHO, 137Pro
One of my concerns of going so low in calories is catabolism. For anyone who has done such an approach about how much fat/ muscle would one expect to lose in a 6 week time frame?
I know on the velocity diet people have lost 16-20lbs of fat and a little muscle in 28 days.
Could similar results be expected from such a radical change in calories?
Can not wait for first CHO up on Sunday. Should be good! If i do not go into a coma.:burg::burg:
Oh yeah, as far as CHO ups on the Rad Diet is it the same idea as the AD. %60CHO, %30Fat, %10Pro