julius kelp
Active member
and how good is it? i want a quantity of transdermal base. the 4 oz bottles are pricy & my homebrew is just not quite as easy to use as i'd like. i love the t-gel...
can we get "plo" gel?
- Thread starter julius kelp
- Start date
triceptor
Radio Host
PhloJel Ultra is premixed, just add your powder. You can easily add up to 100mg/ml (10% concentration) without any solvent at all and up to 200mg/ml using solvents. As for dosing, you can buy 60ml syringes on the net for around 60 cents a unit including shipping if bought in small quantities (25 to a box). All in all it appears the PhloJel Ultra is more economical if you plan on homebrewing a few batches. 29.95 for the PLO kit with a 5g concentration potential puts the unit cost at around $5.99/g of TD and 69.95 for 450g jar PJU with a 45g concentration potential (without using solvents) puts the unit cost around $1.55/g of TD. Neither of these examples include the cost of the powder obviously.
Also, its not a good idea to reuse the syringes from any lecithin based transdermal (PLO ot PJU). There are no preservatives in transdermals and lecithin is organic and can become contaminated, will mold and spoil. You don't want to deliver mold spores along with your 4AD IMHO.
Also, its not a good idea to reuse the syringes from any lecithin based transdermal (PLO ot PJU). There are no preservatives in transdermals and lecithin is organic and can become contaminated, will mold and spoil. You don't want to deliver mold spores along with your 4AD IMHO.
fafhrd said:
fafhrd
New member
preservatives
Not knocking Phlojel. The kit just provides a convenient mixing and dosing platform. Your info on the preservatives is erroneous, though, as the lecithin componenent is treated with sorbic acid and the polymer component with potassiom sorbate, both food grade preservatives.
Fafhrd
Not knocking Phlojel. The kit just provides a convenient mixing and dosing platform. Your info on the preservatives is erroneous, though, as the lecithin componenent is treated with sorbic acid and the polymer component with potassiom sorbate, both food grade preservatives.
Fafhrd
triceptor
Radio Host
I will call my contact at JAR to clarify the issue of preservatives and post the response, however, it is my uderstanding from both a conversation with a local compounding pharmacist as well as JAR Pharma that is\f lecithin organogels are contaminated they will grow mold. Contamination meaning exposure to other organic matter (oily residue from your finger) and given the proper conditions for spores to proliferate they will. Either way, I don't think it is wise to reuse syringes even in the presence of some preservatives. That was my only point.
fafhrd said:
triceptor
Radio Host
Correct, you are not supposed to refigerate PJU. It is stable at room temperature and will not go bad. At room temperature it has a stated shelf life of 1 year. Refigeration will cause it to seperate and from what JAR has told me, it can not be reconstituted without special equipment.
The issue about preservatives is seperate of this fact. I will post this info next week when I have an answer. Regardless of preservatives, any lecithin organogel will go bad if given enough time. I purchased 2 100g jars of Difusimax a couple years ago when I was experimenting with different TD bases. I was cleaning my supplement cabinet out and found one of the jars. It had been unopened the whole time it was stored. I removed the cap and the gel had turned a funky orange color and had an odor.
My only reason for drawing attention to this was to illustrate that reusing syringes is not a good idea.
The issue about preservatives is seperate of this fact. I will post this info next week when I have an answer. Regardless of preservatives, any lecithin organogel will go bad if given enough time. I purchased 2 100g jars of Difusimax a couple years ago when I was experimenting with different TD bases. I was cleaning my supplement cabinet out and found one of the jars. It had been unopened the whole time it was stored. I removed the cap and the gel had turned a funky orange color and had an odor.
My only reason for drawing attention to this was to illustrate that reusing syringes is not a good idea.
rrgg said:
former_SlimJim
Board Supporter
Triceptor,
This is way off the original thread but since you're discussing refrigeration, I have a couple questions for you about frozen phlojel. I ordered 450g and I expected the weather to be desent when it arrived since the forecast looked above freezing for a week. I took exactly 14 days to arrive after it was ordered. The day it arrived it was hovering around freezing and was in the mailbox several hours before I got home. It puffed up and was oozing out around the lid. I wasn't really sure if it froze or not. I let it warm up overnight and the next day it shrunk back down and had some separation. I took a butterknife, wiped it with alcohol, remixed the PJU, and it hasn't reseparated yet. I went ahead and made a small batch and it seems to be working fine. Is this stuff no longer usable after freezing / close to freezing or will it just separate from now on kind of like natural peanut butter does? Is the shelf life greatly reduced? It says on the box "protect from freezing", but now you say refrigerating is bad too - what is the lowest temperature that PJU can handle? Will storing it at close to its lowest temperature possibly keep it from deteriorating further if it's already damaged? I guess just tell me what you can and what my options are here. I really hate to spend $70 and then have nothing to show for it. After all, I was expecting 4-5 days delivery.
This is way off the original thread but since you're discussing refrigeration, I have a couple questions for you about frozen phlojel. I ordered 450g and I expected the weather to be desent when it arrived since the forecast looked above freezing for a week. I took exactly 14 days to arrive after it was ordered. The day it arrived it was hovering around freezing and was in the mailbox several hours before I got home. It puffed up and was oozing out around the lid. I wasn't really sure if it froze or not. I let it warm up overnight and the next day it shrunk back down and had some separation. I took a butterknife, wiped it with alcohol, remixed the PJU, and it hasn't reseparated yet. I went ahead and made a small batch and it seems to be working fine. Is this stuff no longer usable after freezing / close to freezing or will it just separate from now on kind of like natural peanut butter does? Is the shelf life greatly reduced? It says on the box "protect from freezing", but now you say refrigerating is bad too - what is the lowest temperature that PJU can handle? Will storing it at close to its lowest temperature possibly keep it from deteriorating further if it's already damaged? I guess just tell me what you can and what my options are here. I really hate to spend $70 and then have nothing to show for it. After all, I was expecting 4-5 days delivery.
triceptor
Radio Host
Its not problem, just a little inconvient to have to remix the stuff. Please PM or email me so I can ask you a couple questions and give you a suggestion or two. This is the first time we have had this problem however it is something I was afraid would happen. It is not likely that the postman is going to get out of his truck and ring a door bell even though the labels states protect from freezing. I spoke to JAR Pharma after reading your post and in the future when shipping to a cold climate we will ask that the PJU be held at the local PO for pickup. This may be a pain in the ass for some, but its the only way to get the product delivered at no additional cost for shipping and not left outdoors for hours where it can freeze.
Also, the perfect temperature for PJU is room temperature. Cold or freezing makes it seperate, as you so pointed out, like natty p nut butter, and you have to remix.
Also, the perfect temperature for PJU is room temperature. Cold or freezing makes it seperate, as you so pointed out, like natty p nut butter, and you have to remix.
former_SlimJim said:
fafhrd
New member
30 bucks
gets you the tools to mix and dose properly. IA also sells bulk plo gel and the seperate components.There are three inherent problems with pre-mixed gels including those from Iron Apothecary.
1 How do you know that all of the active has dissolved completely if you don't dissolve it before putting it into the gel?
2 How can you tell when the gel and active are mixed properly and completely?
3 How do you dose accurately? You can't draw gel into a syringe, it must be pushed into it. Ask any compounding pharmacist how they mix their products. They don't use pre-mixed gels, especially when even small fluctuations in dosage can be critical. (i.e. in the use of topical narcotics)
fafhrd
gets you the tools to mix and dose properly. IA also sells bulk plo gel and the seperate components.There are three inherent problems with pre-mixed gels including those from Iron Apothecary.
1 How do you know that all of the active has dissolved completely if you don't dissolve it before putting it into the gel?
2 How can you tell when the gel and active are mixed properly and completely?
3 How do you dose accurately? You can't draw gel into a syringe, it must be pushed into it. Ask any compounding pharmacist how they mix their products. They don't use pre-mixed gels, especially when even small fluctuations in dosage can be critical. (i.e. in the use of topical narcotics)
fafhrd