Can someone help me calculate a HED value?

CubsFan312

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I'm completely math illiterate, but I found these two links that are completely baffling to me as to how to calculate HED from a rat.

A simple practice guide for dose conversion between animals and human. I can't understand a word of it.

This is the ONLY information I have as this is a new RC chemical I'm trying to tell people to avoid, but I want to know what the LD50 for say a 150lb man is.

11 Toxicological information
· Information on toxicological effects
· Acute toxicity:
· LD/LC50 values that are relevant for classification:
Oral LD50
545 mg/kg (rat)
Subcutaneous LD50 339 mg/kg (rat)
Can anyone help? You can't search for HED in the search engine because it's only 3 letters and it won't let you search just 3 letters. So, any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!
 

johnny412

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I'm completely math illiterate, but I found these two links that are completely baffling to me as to how to calculate HED from a rat.

A simple practice guide for dose conversion between animals and human. I can't understand a word of it.

This is the ONLY information I have as this is a new RC chemical I'm trying to tell people to avoid, but I want to know what the LD50 for say a 150lb man is.



Can anyone help? You can't search for HED in the search engine because it's only 3 letters and it won't let you search just 3 letters. So, any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!
massage parlor? :ROFLMAO:
 

Jeremyk1

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You can’t search “HED” because it’s only 3 letters… do you not know what it stands for? It means something that’s longer than 3 letters.
 

johnny412

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You can’t search “HED” because it’s only 3 letters… do you not know what it stands for? It means something that’s longer than 3 letters.
damn dude you slower than HE is smdh! he can get hed at a massage parlor? never mind damn............
 
CubsFan312

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You can’t search “HED” because it’s only 3 letters… do you not know what it stands for? It means something that’s longer than 3 letters.

Yes, I realize that and thank you for the flippant response. I know it stands for "human equivalency dose". But, if you have nothing to do add to this thread than that, I'd thank you to please stay out of it.
 

johnny412

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Yes, I realize that and thank you for the flippant response. I know it stands for "human equivalency dose". But, if you have nothing to do add to this thread than that, I'd thank you to please stay out of it.
starscream stop arguing with everybody damn
 
CubsFan312

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So, I searched for "human equivalency dose" and came across this equation, which I have no idea if it is correct or not.

mg/kg (animal) x km factor (animal) / <---divided by km factor (human) = hed
Source: https://anabolicminds.com/community/threads/gw-501516-anerobic-work.305687/post-6086013

So, I found the patent holder had done LD50 tests on this substance, and an IV injection of 70mg/kg of mice weighing between 25 and 30 grams. I plugged in the final number as "150" as just a general weight amount.

So, I did 70mg/0.03 x km factor (this is what confuses me):

The km value is not truly constant for any species, but increases within a species as body weight
increases. The increase is not linear, but increases approximately proportional to W2/3. For
example, the km value in rats varies from 5.2 for a 100 g rat to 7.0 for a 250 g rat. Strictly
speaking, the km value of 6 applies only to rats at the reference weight of 150 g. For
standardization and practical purposes, a fixed km factor for each species is preferred. An
analysis was undertaken to determine the effect of different body weights within a species on the
conversion of an animal dose to the HED using km factors. The km factor was calculated for a
range of body weights using km = 100/K × W0.33. In Table 3, a working weight range is shown
next to the reference body weight. This is the range within which the HED calculated by using
the standard km value will not vary more than ±20 percent from that which would be calculated
using a km value based on exact animal weight. This is a relativity small variance considering
dose separation generally used in deriving the NOAEL, in toxicology studies, which are often
twofold separations. For example, suppose a NOAEL in rats is 75 mg/kg and the average rat
weight is 250 g. The km value for a 250 g rat is 7.0.
Source: Estimating-the-Maximum-Safe-Starting-Dose-in-Initial-Clinical-Trials-for-Therapeutics-in-Adult-Healthy-Volunteers.pdf (from the FDA - attached)

So, I'm not sure what to put to for the KM factor, and even when I do put in the value as such: (70/30) x 300 / 150 and it came out as 0.46666666666 . So, is that telling me 0.5mg is the LD50? I also followed the directions from the FDA and just tried using 100g rat as 5.2 as the km factor. (70/30) x 5.2 / 150 and I get 0.08088888888.

So, I'm absolutely stumped. It appears the rats used in the patent study used extremely small rats at a size of

Male CD-1 albino mice were used having a body weight of between 25 and 30 grams, and having been fasting for about 18 hours at the moment of treatment.

Female CD-1 albino mice were used, having a body weight of between 20 and 25 grams. At the moment of commencing the experiment the animals were not in a state of fast, but remained fasting for the rest of the test.
So, I feel like I'm seriously missing a step here, have miscalculated something, have the math formula in the wrong format, or was give the wrong dosage to calculate HED.

Any advice, suggestions, etc, is appreciated.
 

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BBiceps

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So, I searched for "human equivalency dose" and came across this equation, which I have no idea if it is correct or not.


Source: https://anabolicminds.com/community/threads/gw-501516-anerobic-work.305687/post-6086013

So, I found the patent holder had done LD50 tests on this substance, and an IV injection of 70mg/kg of mice weighing between 25 and 30 grams. I plugged in the final number as "150" as just a general weight amount.

So, I did 70mg/0.03 x km factor (this is what confuses me):


Source: Estimating-the-Maximum-Safe-Starting-Dose-in-Initial-Clinical-Trials-for-Therapeutics-in-Adult-Healthy-Volunteers.pdf (from the FDA - attached)

So, I'm not sure what to put to for the KM factor, and even when I do put in the value as such: (70/30) x 300 / 150 and it came out as 0.46666666666 . So, is that telling me 0.5mg is the LD50? I also followed the directions from the FDA and just tried using 100g rat as 5.2 as the km factor. (70/30) x 5.2 / 150 and I get 0.08088888888.

So, I'm absolutely stumped. It appears the rats used in the patent study used extremely small rats at a size of



So, I feel like I'm seriously missing a step here, have miscalculated something, have the math formula in the wrong format, or was give the wrong dosage to calculate HED.

Any advice, suggestions, etc, is appreciated.
Thanks for this meaningless post, it’s good to have you back Starscream. :)
 
CubsFan312

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Thanks for this meaningless post, it’s good to have you back Starscream. :)
For god sakes, you people are absolutely worthless. I'm trying to make a simple rat -> HED calculation and all I get is **** bullsh!t.

No interest in helping me, just calling me out. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
 

johnny412

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For god sakes, you people are absolutely worthless. I'm trying to make a simple rat -> HED calculation and all I get is **** bullsh!t.

No interest in helping me, just calling me out. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
who in the hell would even know about all that scientific mumbo jumbo you are babbling about smdh!!! you are in the wrong place buddy.......in more ways than one!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
CubsFan312

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You guys just absolutely hate my guts and there's nothing I can do or say to change your mind. I never came here to make enemies with people, but to engage in discussion. But, it appears since the lunatics run the asylum, all there is is immaturity and hate.

I don't know or even remember what I did to make you guys lifelong enemies of me, but I sincerely apologize. It was never my intention to throw cold water on anybody's hard held beliefs, but maybe engage in an actual discussion, like the
Socratic method
The Socratic method is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presuppositions
If I stepped on your toes or challenged some of your hard held beliefs, I'm sorry. But the way I learned to write & debate was to ALWAYS look up your sources and confirm whether or not they're valid or not. And I'm always willing to admit if I'm wrong and did countless times.

So for God Sakes, I'm sorry. Sometimes I have to come back here to find a source for a peptide or ask a legit question. Because I think this is one of the most well educated AAS/Bodybuilding related forums on the net.
 

johnny412

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For god sakes, you people are absolutely worthless. I'm trying to make a simple rat -> HED calculation and all I get is **** bullsh!t.

No interest in helping me, just calling me out. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
"I'm trying to make a simple rat -> HED calculation"
It doesnt seem to be so simple for you tho???
 

BBiceps

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You guys just absolutely hate my guts and there's nothing I can do or say to change your mind. I never came here to make enemies with people, but to engage in discussion. But, it appears since the lunatics run the asylum, all there is is immaturity and hate.

I don't know or even remember what I did to make you guys lifelong enemies of me, but I sincerely apologize. It was never my intention to throw cold water on anybody's hard held beliefs, but maybe engage in an actual discussion, like the
Socratic method


If I stepped on your toes or challenged some of your hard held beliefs, I'm sorry. But the way I learned to write & debate was to ALWAYS look up your sources and confirm whether or not they're valid or not. And I'm always willing to admit if I'm wrong and did countless times.

So for God Sakes, I'm sorry. Sometimes I have to come back here to find a source for a peptide or ask a legit question. Because I think this is one of the most well educated AAS/Bodybuilding related forums on the net.
Don’t be like that Starscream, we all love you, I for one can’t have enough of your crazy studies and it is really more fun when you’re around with your insanity. 😂
 
CubsFan312

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Don’t be like that Starscream, we all love you, I for one can’t have enough of your crazy studies and it is really more fun when you’re around with your insanity. 😂
Well, I don't any of the mods/admins or the countless other people who are probably reporting me right now see it that way. If you enjoy my "humor" about posting solid evidence, I guess I shouldn't take myself so seriously. There's people who genuinely hate me on this forum because I said something about their favorite supplement or steroid or I don't even know.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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You know ... I put "SS" in Google, and couldn't find a reference.

But, I put Starscream in, and immediately, Thousands of studies popped up!

:D:geek::geek::D
you just broke the internet with that one!! nothing is working now~
 
xR1pp3Rx

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. And I'm always willing to admit if I'm wrong and did countless times.

So for God Sakes, I'm sorry.
so when you apologize to all of us about your anti-vax BS i will consider it. but i get real tired of assholes telling me whats best for me. and frankly you lost big even with all your gvrnmt "studies" backing your stance.
 

Hilltern

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Bud, did you ever think to make an alt that wasn’t so readily identifiable as you so you wouldn’t get mercilessly trolled?
 

johnny412

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Bud, did you ever think to make an alt that wasn’t so readily identifiable as you so you wouldn’t get mercilessly trolled?
he was taught growing up..........just be yourself lol and THATS what gets him in trub
 

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