Can KB Swings Completely Replace Cardio? Opinions?

[ucimigrate]

Hi Everyone,

Ironically, I spoke to Bud Jeffries only a week or so before COVID took his life. God rest his soul.

Of course, his 1000 lb squats and other amazing gym and real-world strength feats will forever be remembered.

I also learned about kettlebells from his anecdotes.

1. When done with zeal, it seems that someone can do near-unlimited amounts of swings every single day and not show common bio-markers of overtraining.

2. While there have only been anecdotes and a few controlled studies, this very preliminary data seems to indicate the same:

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3. It would seem that at least 1000 kb swings could be done daily. This would take most of us nearly 30 minutes, no matter how we splice it.

It appears that two-armed, one-armed, continuous, or without rest will be about the same thing.

4. I still think 3-4x of traditional weight training (barbells and dumbells) take precedence over kettlebells.

But, it appears that along with (a) diet and (b) traditional resistance training, kettlebell exercises (esp. swings) may completely replace cardio.

This would allow more fat loss with much less loss of strength, muscle mass, and flexibility.

5. Any thoughts, research, etc.?

In my anecdote, I have been doing it for about two weeks. I notice my posture is better, and I am slightly hungrier than doing just 30 minutes of extra cardio a day.

 

[poison]

Of course it can replace cardio. KB swings burn way more cals than most other traditional cardio, and strengthen the core, forearms, posterior chain, and teach your body how to hip hinge explosively. It builds strength and endurance, and translates to real life stuff, like picking up boxes, fighting, etc.

I highly disagree that you can do unlimited amount every day without overtraining, haha. I've definitely disproven that myself.

Single hand adds quite a lot to the equation, as well, due to added rotation forces you must resist. I can also do a much longer set if I use one hand; grip is generally the first thing to fatigue, and switching hands allows the bigger muscles to keep going longer. I've done 400+ in one continuous set with a 24kg and switching hands, but 150 with 2 hands is challenging my grip.

 

[Resolve10]

1. When done with zeal, it seems that someone can do near-unlimited amounts of swings every single day and not show common bio-markers of overtraining.

I am doubtful of this, there isn't any training you can do endlessly and non stop that wouldn't lead to something. If that was the case it would mean you are also seemingly doing nothing if you get no markers of change...

2. While there have only been anecdotes and a few controlled studies, this very preliminary data seems to indicate the same:

T-nation doesn't seem like a good source for something like "controlled studies". I don't know of any studies indicating what you assert in the first point.

3. It would seem that at least 1000 kb swings could be done daily. This would take most of us nearly 30 minutes, no matter how we splice it.

It appears that two-armed, one-armed, continuous, or without rest will be about the same thing.

Idk. You'd probably have to build some tolerance to that, I don't do KB stuff exclusively so unsure how realistic this is.

4. I still think 3-4x of traditional weight training (barbells and dumbells) take precedence over kettlebells.

But, it appears that along with (a) diet and (b) traditional resistance training, kettlebell exercises (esp. swings) may completely replace cardio.

This would allow more fat loss with much less loss of strength, muscle mass, and flexibility.

You could replace your cardio, but that doesn't mean you should (or shouldn't) and idk if you could say it would lead to those outcomes over any other well structured program.

5. Any thoughts, research, etc.?

In my anecdote, I have been doing it for about two weeks. I notice my posture is better, and I am slightly hungrier than doing just 30 minutes of extra cardio a day.

If you like it and it keeps you engaged and you are getting good results then go ahead and keep going. Just feels like another one of your threads looking for some magic cure again.

Answers in bold. KBs are great. Weird programs and magical expectations are not. Effects are going to be based on many factors and sure KB could be a great way for certain types of training and/or cardio, but it also can't completely eliminate the need for other types of cardio dependent on ones goals.

They can definitely be a viable option though, some studies for those interested:
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[Dustin07]

1. When done with zeal, it seems that someone can do near-unlimited amounts of swings every single day and not show common bio-markers of overtraining.

There's a lot to unravel here. I used to hate KB's until I did some training on them in class room settings. I think they're a fantastic tool and had the opportunity to train with a previous world record holder (she did not hit 1k swings in an hour, I think it was 732 at the time). There are a variety of swings, snatch, etc and I have known people to develop stress fractures from high rep kb snatch.

But, it appears that along with (a) diet and (b) traditional resistance training, kettlebell exercises (esp. swings) may completely replace cardio.

This would allow more fat loss with much less loss of strength, muscle mass, and flexibility.

I knew a guy that worked up to extremely heavy KB's when he could not squat. I don't recall what the injury was, but just that when he was able to squat again he walked in and squatted 405 on day 1. I do think KB's have a great place in fitness.

As far as replacing cardio, I like them in addition to. My brother and I used to take some KB's down to the track and run a workout of KB thrusters + 400m runs. it was something like

21/15/9 kb thrusters
400m run

(very Franny)

or we'd do
21 kb thrusters
400m run
5 rounds

etc etc

 

[ucimigrate]

Very good. I appreciate your nuances.

1. I agree that it seems like I get attracted to an idea but do not know the detailed limits.

Yes, kettlebells are valuable in many ways, but only part of the equation. It seems like I try to push limits to almost want a magical answer to get the best of all worlds. It must sound foolish.

2. Other people have standalone kb programs. But, I agree it should only be one (important) tool in the arsenal.

3. At least in my current status, I am detrained, recovering from back injuries, etc.

300-400 kb swings, even every day, with 12-25 kgs still seems within the moderate range. I will keep going until:

a. Physical progress stops
b. I get too psycholocially bored to persist

 

[Dustin07]

KB's are pretty versatile. I mean you have American swings, Russian swings, snatch, cleans, goblet squats, clean squats, thrusters, floor press, overhead press, overhead squats, armbars, etc etc and all of these things can be done with 1 kb or two basically. that's just off top of my head.

 

[Smont]

Kinda a silly question, cardio is any form of aerobic or physical activity. Can kb replace cardio, NO because if your doing it in a way that raises your heart rate then it IS CARDIO.

So can cardio replace cardio........ no, its all just cardio.

Most of my cardio is boxing and wrestling. Does it replace cardio..... no, it is cardio.

Do whatever kind of cardio you can stick with and progress at.

But..... if my plan calls for 30min of cardio 5× week, its going to be really hard doing 2.5hrs of kettlebell swings each week. And eventually what if i need 45min or a hour.

Hope that makes sense

 

[ucimigrate]

1. Thanks. I appreciate it.

2. I agree that anything from walking to sprinting to wrestling, kung fu, or kettlebells is cardio. Even resistance training has a cardio effect.

3. I am just saying that one of the pitfalls I saw (esp. in the 1980's) was that "aerobics are magic" for fat loss. They always Invalid Link Removed.

These days, they probably would recommend a reduction diet, resistance training, and some cardio.

I think adding kettlebells and martial arts is great, if nothing else, for psychological benefit. Obviously, I would bet there are time-bound physical benefits, too.

 

[Smont]

I think in the fitness world they have mislabeled cardio. Ppl like to walk there dog or walk on a treadmill and i just cant call anything that easy cardio. Now if your doing "cardio" for weight loss, its just burning calories. Im moving at a way faster pace then "walking my dog" at work and thats all day long. So should i call my job 8-12 hrs of cardio? Of course not, by that logic grocery shopping would be cardio, doing laundry would be cardio, Its all just burning calories from normal daily activity. It's not cardio, It's getting your steps in and there's a big difference in my eyes.

Im sure someone will want to argue but its my opinion, everyones entitled to there opinion.

When i give ppl cardio to do, i give them a heartrate range i want them to be in. General cardio for heart health and fat loss i want something like 120-135 bpm, high intensity 140-160, walking the dog shouldnt evate someones heartrate more then a few points so i cant call it cardio. But its steps and moving burns calories.

I dont remeber who it was that got me thinking like this, maybe john meadows or stan, but i seperate steps and "cardio"


Lopsing weight boils down to only 2 things in its simplest form.

Move more or eat less and be consistant. And if you fall off the rails at 4am with 5 poptarts once in a while lol, dont throw out the baby with the bath water. The next day skip breakfast, have a coffee, go for a walk and get back on track by lunch.

 

[ucimigrate]

Someone at job that's other than sedentary can be called N.E.A.T., Non Exercise Activity Thermogenesis.

For example, a teacher, postal delivery men, etc. still do more work than a 100% sedentary worker like a computer programmer.

The evidence-based studies I have seen show that it is four factors in this order, for fat loss:

a. Diet
b. Resistance training
c. Formal cardio
d. N.E.A.T.

So, a sedentary person in the suburbs who goes from car to computer programmer is one thing. That same person who moves to a city (where they walk around and use public transport for everything), and regularly diet and go to the gym notice a significant loss, since they have changed all four factors.

Someone who simply walks around more than usual may notice some small weight loss but no game-changing transformations. We see the difference in people who take an extended vacation to Paris, etc. and walk around a lot more. Lots of weight change, but no great game changing.

 

[Resolve10]

1. Thanks. I appreciate it.

2. I agree that anything from walking to sprinting to wrestling, kung fu, or kettlebells is cardio. Even resistance training has a cardio effect.

3. I am just saying that one of the pitfalls I saw (esp. in the 1980's) was that "aerobics are magic" for fat loss. They always Invalid Link Removed.

These days, they probably would recommend a reduction diet, resistance training, and some cardio.

I think adding kettlebells and martial arts is great, if nothing else, for psychological benefit. Obviously, I would bet there are time-bound physical benefits, too.

Idk if a link to the Cosby show should be used as fitness evidence advice.

Any well rounded plan that you enjoy should be fine, diet is the primary driver, exercise is because most people (in these kinds of areas we discuss this) are looking to "look" better not just lose weight so maintaining as much muscle and performance leads to these kinds of questions of how much and what for cardio/resistance.

I think in the fitness world they have mislabeled cardio.

Maybe mislabeled and definitely misunderstood. With how poorly people seem to even understand the resistance portion, trying to discuss cardio is often painful.

 

[Smont]

Idk if a link to the Cosby show should be used as fitness evidence advice.

Any well rounded plan that you enjoy should be fine, diet is the primary driver, exercise is because most people (in these kinds of areas we discuss this) are looking to "look" better not just lose weight so maintaining as much muscle and performance leads to these kinds of questions of how much and what for cardio/resistance.



Maybe mislabeled and definitely misunderstood. With how poorly people seem to even understand the resistance portion, trying to discuss cardio is often painful.

Lol, i was wondering what the link went too

 

[Resolve10]

Lol, i was wondering what the link went too

I clicked it twice bc I was like this can’t be right.

 

[Dustin07]

if you want effective cardio, I recommend Richard Simmons.

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[Smont]

if you want effective cardio, I recommend Richard Simmons.

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[Smont]

Look at those shredded forearms, a lean mean 119lbs

 

[Dustin07]

Look at those shredded forearms, a lean mean 119lbs

I saw Pauly shore a couple months ago in Tacoma and he's trying like hell to do a biopic film on Richard, Pauly wants to play Richard Simmons..... if you imagine their faces, they could practically be brothers. Pauly would make a great Richard lol. (although apparently Richard Simmons isn't excited about the idea)

 

[Smont]

I saw Pauly shore a couple months ago in Tacoma and he's trying like hell to do a biopic film on Richard, Pauly wants to play Richard Simmons..... if you imagine their faces, they could practically be brothers. Pauly would make a great Richard lol. (although apparently Richard Simmons isn't excited about the idea)

There's not a better person on the planet who could play that role lol

 

[Smont]

I saw Pauly shore a couple months ago in Tacoma and he's trying like hell to do a biopic film on Richard, Pauly wants to play Richard Simmons..... if you imagine their faces, they could practically be brothers. Pauly would make a great Richard lol. (although apparently Richard Simmons isn't excited about the idea)

Invalid Link Removedhes barely gonna need make up lol

 

[Dustin07]

Invalid Link Removedhes barely gonna need make up lol

dude seeing him live in a small comedy club in the diviest areas of tacoma was nuts. He still walks, talks, and moves like Richard Simmons. He was funny, but the best part for me was he did his whole set as if we were all just buddies. He had obscure references to all of his classic comedies that had us rolling on the ground laughing. of course, my wife is 10 years older than me and a female so she didn't spend her childhood growing up on In The Army Now, Encino Man, Son In Law, etc like I did

she liked him, but he wasn't exactly Tom Pappa for her lol.
I think he was probably my favorite comedy show i've been too just because of his ability to make the whole night feel nostalgic, he legit seems like a cool dude

 

[BBiceps]

OP, what was wrong with the answers you got the first time you asked?

Stop finding “what’s best” and just do a workout you enjoy for a long period of time, do that with a clean diet and I can promise you that you will get results. Sticking to something and hard work is the key to get results, not what’s best.

 

[ucimigrate]

Thanks.

I guess I am like this because I have stuck to certain things for too long, even when the results were not coming.

I suppose no person wants to waste time on the wrong things.

 

[BBiceps]

Thanks.

I guess I am like this because I have stuck to certain things for too long, even when the results were not coming.

I suppose no person wants to waste time on the wrong things.

What kind of results are you expecting and how much effort do you actually do?

Any workout can work as long as you give enough effort. Unfortunately it’s no program that’s “the best”, what works for me might not work the same for you and wise versa. What is the same for everyone is how much effort you put into a program/your training/diet.

I recommend you to hire a good well known trainer (in person) that can set up your training and diet for you. I promise you’ll get results if you give that 100%.