Can anyone explain how Alcohol can be used as a Methyl Group?

[Bx87]

A lot of people use tinctures (alcohol solvent) to get extraction and concentration of a shredded plant or powder.

As far as DNA Methylation, alcohol does play a role (long term alcohol abuse hurts the DNA methylation).

The tinctures (included with alcohol as solvent) are used sparingly and used in small amount.

Is it safe to insert these very small drops of tinctures directly into anus using dropper? (to bypass liver and get straight into bloodstream). This is for serious discussion.

There are two main methyl groups that people use (Methanol -- far dangerous) and another one (Ethanol or ethyl alcohol... drinkable but nonetheless strong potent alcohol). The one used for the labs are high usually around 96% alcohol and 4% water. They aren't promoted to be drinkable and laboratory alcohol are not safe to induce HOWEVER I want to know the factories (alibaba factories in China, do they use Lab based Ethyl alcohol to get extraction and concentration? or using Vodka (80 proof usually) be sufficient to be used as tincture or to get concentration of a plant based powder?

I'm thinking these strong potent powder plant (that becomes the final product) becomes very strong potent and they are "methylated" enough to bypass liver even after being induced orally and go to the bloodstream? or Can I use the tincture based liquid and shoot it directly into my rectum?

Would SAM-e be better replacement as methyl group or will alcohol be sufficient? and even when alcohol is enough? does it really give off methyl group if I was to dunk some plant based powder into alcohol for extraction. When I talk about plant based, it could mean any legal plants.

Any thoughts and inputs from experienced guys here would be appreciated.

 

[Canes325]

All I got outta this was you wanted to put tinctures up your ass... I kid. I don't have anything productive to add to this conversation. Good luck and God speed.

 

[Bunshichi]

You have a teriibly wrong understanding of mehylation and what the alcohol is used for in extraction methods and with extracts.

Methylation means the binding of a methyl group to a molecule. That can not be done just by pouring Methanol over it. Also it can not be done by pouring Ethanol over it. A chemical reaction has to take place to methylate a substance.

In extraction processes the alcohols are simply used to solute substances that are not soluble in water. The alcohol can now evaporate leaving a powder of these substances.
If you put alcohol to it you just simply put the substance into solution and nothing else happens. The substance is the same as it was as a powder.

DNA methylation is an encymatic process and the consumption of alcohol can have an impact on the enzymes and provide oxidative stress wich may (or better eventually will) damage the DNA. Damaged DNA may now be methylated in a way that would not have happened otherwise. This can lead to different translation and to cancer or other diseases.
But it is not he alcohol itself that does it but the oxidative stress wich can have several causes.

If you drop alcohol to your anus your mucous membranes will be damaged to some extend. However if you dont use too much too often it can heal just fine.

Factorys are using almost pure ethanol for extraction in most cases. Every beverage containing a large amount of ethanol can be used to solve substances, but using pure ethanol will result in better solubility (IF all substances in the powder are hydrophobe).

Methanol and ethanol are no methyl-groups. Please educate yourself in basic chemistry.

You really need to learn some chemistry and biology as you are totally mistaken in pretty much everything you wrote.

 

[pogue]

Bx87 What exactly are you trying to accomplish by administering rectally? And what substance are you trying to use? Rectal administrator can work for some drugs, and a lot of recreational drug users will often times experiment with rectal administration for various reasons. Obviously, it bypasses first pass metabolism and can enhance the effects of certain compounds.

But, please explain to us what you're trying to do, what your exact goals are, and where you came up with the idea that you need to administer this substance rectally?

 

[Dma378]

Subbed for teh LULZ

 

[hairygrandpa]

Last time I tried to use Dbol rectally, but after a few steps, the pill fell out.

 

[Canes325]

Last time I tried to use Dbol rectally, but after a few steps, the pill fell out.

Either you got a loose caboose, or you didn't put the tab in correctly. Rookie mistake gramps.

 

[Bx87]

Bx87 What exactly are you trying to accomplish by administering rectally? And what substance are you trying to use? Rectal administrator can work for some drugs, and a lot of recreational drug users will often times experiment with rectal administration for various reasons. Obviously, it bypasses first pass metabolism and can enhance the effects of certain compounds.

But, please explain to us what you're trying to do, what your exact goals are, and where you came up with the idea that you need to administer this substance rectally?

Last time I mentioned a chemical compound here, my thread got closed. If you want, we can talk privately if you are interested.

 

[pogue]

Last time I mentioned a chemical compound here, my thread got closed. If you want, we can talk privately if you are interested.

I'm guessing it's a rec drug, but feel free to shoot me a PM. Also, my Twitter and email is in my signature.

 

[Dma378]

Comes to Anabolics Section to find out how to turn drugs into a proper butt rocket. Guess we know where all the addicts hang out.

 

[Canes325]

Comes to Anabolics Section to find out how to turn drugs into a proper butt rocket. Guess we know where all the addicts hang out.

We'll do anything for dem gainzzzz braaa.

 

[Dma378]

We'll do anything for dem gainzzzz braaa.

 

[pogue]

This guy had a perfectly legitimate question. He emailed me to ask about it. He's a bit confused chemistry wise, but I have no idea why he was specifically asking about rectal administration because he mentioned he didn't want to do that in the email.
Bx87 If it's okay with you, I can post a summary of what you're trying to do. I don't think anyone will close it, and you might get a better response about how to methylate a compound.

 

[Bx87]

This guy had a perfectly legitimate question. He emailed me to ask about it. He's a bit confused chemistry wise, but I have no idea why he was specifically asking about rectal administration because he mentioned he didn't want to do that in the email.
Bx87 If it's okay with you, I can post a summary of what you're trying to do. I don't think anyone will close it, and you might get a better response about how to methylate a compound.

Yes Please do. And thank you so much for replying to my email. I really appreciate that. I must say, I thought this would have been a simple process than I thought. I need to study a lot. I will study the links you provided to me in addition to the books you recommended me.

 

[pogue]

Basically, he's looking for a source or trying to create his own methylated version of protodioscin. Why? I have no idea Bx87 you still never explained to me why you were looking for this compound or what you expect it to do for you. It's basically the active version of tribulus, and bodybuilders have known for years that tribulus is pure junk. Many, many people have tried it over the years and have had pretty much no results with it. It's renowned as one of the biggest scams in the supplement industry and methylating it wouldn't help make it work better from any way I can theorize.

http://thinkmuscle.com/supplement-profiles/tribulus-terrestris/

So, as I said in the email, I would ask what results you're looking for and we can probably recommend a better compound that would work for you to achieve whatever goals you have by using this.

 

[Bx87]

Okay guys check this out

[had to remove the links because forum won't allow me to post links when I only had few posts -- link was here before; if anyone wants link, I can PM to you]

some quotes below (from the above link)

The rectal plexus is a network of veins that that drain in part to the portal vein.

The portal vein goes straight to the liver.

However, the body does to a rectal or vaginal suppository would be lower than a topical skin dose because the rectum and vagina is in part drained by the portal vein. The portal vein goes straight to the liver.

Also useful read:

[had to remove the links because forum won't allow me to post links when I only had few posts -- link was here before; if anyone wants link, I can PM to you]

so my take on this is that rectal insertion (suppository) method may or may not work because of portal vein that is connected to the liver. So it wouldn't be different as if orally ingesting which then gets metabolized by the liver. Sublingual (spray under the tongue) might be better method but

here is the reason why I brought up the rectal suppository method.

You know how methyl version compound is basically hepatic to the liver and hard on it. The whole point is to help the methyl version of compound get through the liver without the original compound getting too metabolized.

So what if instead of even trying to make methyl (what if I can shoot it) directly into the anus but since the rectum inside lining walls with blood vessels are connected to portal vein which is then connected to liver, the stuff we put into our ass is going to be metabolized by the liver anyways so what is the better solution to all this?

I don't want to put needles through my skin and I'm not seeing any better alternative method. The only thing I can think about right now is either put protodioscin directly into the hole of my arse or somehow make or find the methyl version of the compound and take it orally. Two options here.

Anyone's inputs and thoughts here?

oh btw, pogue, I think I stated on the email. My purpose of wanting to use this was for better circulation and general overall health being and for energy boost.

This part I didn't mention in email though --> (It's very good for having strong bones)

 

[pogue]

so my take on this is that rectal insertion (suppository) method may or may not work because of portal vein that is connected to the liver. So it wouldn't be different as if orally ingesting which then gets metabolized by the liver. Sublingual (spray under the tongue) might be better method but here is the reason why I brought up the rectal suppository method.

I don't know if there is a study comparing rectal to sublingual absorption, but it would obviously be with a different compound. But, the molecular weight of Protodioscin is over 1000, meaning it probably wouldn't be a viable option for any of those delivery systems. Only very small molecules are able to pass through mucous membranes, through the skin (transdermally) and probably not rectally.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/441891#section=Top

You know how methyl version compound is basically hepatic to the liver and hard on it. The whole point is to help the methyl version of compound get through the liver without the original compound getting too metabolized

Methylated steroids are specifically hard on the liver, but I don't know if this applies to other methylated drugs. Further, methylation doesn't necessarily make something more bioavailable. You could also add a methyl, ethyl, propyl, butyl, pentyl, hexyl, methoxy, ethoxy, propoxy, butoxy, pentyloxy hexyloxy, or oxime groups to the molecule to make it more bioavailable. It just depends on the chemical itself.

I don't want to put needles through my skin and I'm not seeing any better alternative method. The only thing I can think about right now is either put protodioscin directly into the hole of my arse or somehow make or find the methyl version of the compound and take it orally. Two options here.

I wouldn't want to inject tribulus or any form of it either, especially some kind cooked up in a bathtub basement lab.

oh btw, pogue, I think I stated on the email. My purpose of wanting to use this was for better circulation and general overall health being and for energy boost.

This part I didn't mention in email though --> (It's very good for having strong bones)

Don't trust those Chinese or Eastern European studies, especially pre USSR as they are mostly bogus.

https://examine.com/supplements/Tribulus+terrestris/

There's plenty of other supplements that would do what you're suggesting that would work just fine without having to put them up your ass. Have you had blood work to determine if there is something wrong with your circulation or a reason you're lacking energy (I assume)?

But otherwise, look into Chlorogenic Acid, or any of the supplements listed here: https://examine.com/topics/Blood+Flow/

 

[Bx87]

pogue

Thanks for the feedback and the suggestion about Chlorogenic Acid. I will do more research on this and maybe buy small samples of it to test out and buy it if it works well on me (my body).

I had been having poor circulation problem in my body and as a result, I don't even know when was the last time I got a boner. I don't want to buy Viagra or any of that Cialis stuff but I do want to use some other way to increase blood circulation. I been having cloudly thoughts and not thinking straight and even sitting down for a minute, my leg falls asleep.

I took Niacin (flush version) before and it didn't really work on me.

Once again, I really appreciate you taking the time to write to me here. Thank you.

 

[Bunshichi]

If its about the boner look into icariin and yohimbine.

Methylating a compound changes its properties so it may work completely different after that.

 

[Dma378]

Or have you ever thought about going to the doctor?

 

[Joedoubledose]

True life: alcohols are used as a solvent for suspension and preservation in these products not methylation

 

[Bx87]

If its about the boner look into icariin and yohimbine.

Methylating a compound changes its properties so it may work completely different after that.

Yeah thanks for the heads up. I read about icariin the other day and there was an interesting
article on the differences between the potency of icariin that's out there on the market
and what is useful and what is useless.

Or have you ever thought about going to the doctor?

I was going to think about doing that after I ran out of all my options and it was the last resort

True life: alcohols are used as a solvent for suspension and preservation in these products not methylation

Oh I see. I mean I always thought like Methyl... so I was thinking of (if introducing Methyl group)
by having a hydrogen removed and put CH3 in there but I heard Methyl alcohol can blind or kill you
so best option was Ethyl alcohol.

 

[Bunshichi]

Well as Ethyl-alcohol Ethanol has an ethyl-group shich in most cases does not hinder degradation in the liver.

 

[Joedoubledose]

Propylene glycol

 

[DirtyWilly]

If this delivery method shows up on nutri-verse, I refuse to click the link.

 

[brofessorx]

This is something that should of been posted in the supplement section.
Some very knowledgeable guys on this subject that hang there

 

[Bx87]

Propylene glycol

Hmmmm thank you for the note on this.

I'm going to research this as much as possible. I was going to use 190 proof Everclear for extraction and methylation purpose but if this Propylene Glycol can do the job, then I will probably go for this route.