Can’t get lean....seriously

mmgsport

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So I’ve been on a 4AD stack (oral) with Cardarine for 4/5 weeks and eating salad 4 times a day - 2/3 days cardio and lifting heavy and I am 100% not leaning out. My body weight hasn’t changed at all but I’m okay with that I just keep getting swol and won’t lose the beer gut (no I’m not drinking any beer)

I’m 38, 5’10” 191lbs and have not checked my body fat but I’m willing to bet it’s pretty high. I do not want any injectables. I had good success years ago on Primobolan years ago.

I’m planning on running the 4AD another 4/6 weeks with my OCT but wanted to stack the rest of this cycle with something that will REALLY shred me.
 
BloodManor

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Maybe getting your diet in check - that’s what will shred you
 

johnny412

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So I’ve been on a 4AD stack (oral) with Cardarine for 4/5 weeks and eating salad 4 times a day - 2/3 days cardio and lifting heavy and I am 100% not leaning out. My body weight hasn’t changed at all but I’m okay with that I just keep getting swol and won’t lose the beer gut (no I’m not drinking any beer)

I’m 38, 5’10” 191lbs and have not checked my body fat but I’m willing to bet it’s pretty high. I do not want any injectables. I had good success years ago on Primobolan years ago.

I’m planning on running the 4AD another 4/6 weeks with my OCT but wanted to stack the rest of this cycle with something that will REALLY shred me.
i could be wrong but isnt 4ad a wet compound? Not really for cutting at all i wouldnt think?
 

mmgsport

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Maybe getting your diet in check - that’s what will shred you
I’m completely 100% non disciplined and a super picky eater. IMO I’m almost fat so I don’t care if I lose muscle - I just want to lean out and look defined
 

mmgsport

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i could be wrong but isnt 4ad a wet compound? Not really for cutting at all i wouldnt think?
I was reading about havoc and it seems pretty chill. Can’t I take that with what I’m on?
 
BloodManor

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I’m completely 100% non disciplined and a super picky eater. IMO I’m almost fat so I don’t care if I lose muscle - I just want to lean out and look defined
Then learn how to cut. No drug will do that for you
 

mmgsport

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Then learn how to cut. No drug will do that for you
I appreciate that and you’re 100% right. But i also wanna make sure I’m on the right stuff. If the 4AD that I’m On is for bulking and keeping me thick perhaps I should I add havoc and also change my diet.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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perhaps you should learn to diet properly with out drugs.? then when you get things ironed out you could go back to the drugs and get the most out of them.
 

mmgsport

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perhaps you should learn to diet properly with out drugs.? then when you get things ironed out you could go back to the drugs and get the most out of them.
Have a good place to read on cutting diets? Also, when I do get back do you guys have a thought on stacking havoc with my 4AD?
 
YoungThor

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Intermittent fasting. Do cardio while in a fasted state. You should see results quickly. If your not satisfied with the speed of the results then lengthen your fasting period.
 
hrvi7

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Intermittent fasting. Do cardio while in a fasted state. You should see results quickly. If your not satisfied with the speed of the results then lengthen your fasting period.
This.
Or you can look into carbcycling and try that, no drug will get you lean without having a proper diet, thats the main factor, even cardio isnt necessary if your diet/caloric deficit is properly calculated.
 
RickyBlobby

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Intermittent fasting. Do cardio while in a fasted state. You should see results quickly. If your not satisfied with the speed of the results then lengthen your fasting period.
This is good advice. ALCAR is not an anabolic but has a good reputation for burning extra fat, and lots of good reviews on amazon; little to no side effects; you can add this. Plus clen if you really want to get hardcore with it. But diet (intermittent fasting) and fasted cardio should be your mainstays for fat loss.
 

mmgsport

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This is good advice. ALCAR is not an anabolic but has a good reputation for burning extra fat, and lots of good reviews on amazon; little to no side effects; you can add this. Plus clen if you really want to get hardcore with it. But diet (intermittent fasting) and fasted cardio should be your mainstays for fat loss.
I kinda do wanna get a bit hardcore with it. Just don’t understand why the epi (havoc) isn’t suggested?
 
CultiVader

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Just figure out what your maintenance calories are, and eat a few hundred under that every day. And burn calories (cardio)
 
RickyBlobby

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I kinda do wanna get a bit hardcore with it. Just don’t understand why the epi (havoc) isn’t suggested?
maybe I misread your post but it seemed like you wanted to stay away from strong steroids
 

user567

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So I’ve been on a 4AD stack (oral) with Cardarine for 4/5 weeks and eating salad 4 times a day - 2/3 days cardio and lifting heavy and I am 100% not leaning out. My body weight hasn’t changed at all but I’m okay with that I just keep getting swol and won’t lose the beer gut (no I’m not drinking any beer)

I’m 38, 5’10” 191lbs and have not checked my body fat but I’m willing to bet it’s pretty high. I do not want any injectables. I had good success years ago on Primobolan years ago.

I’m planning on running the 4AD another 4/6 weeks with my OCT but wanted to stack the rest of this cycle with something that will REALLY shred me.
First thing to do is stop eating salad. Worthless calories. When trying to cut do not be afraid to eat. Sometimes more is less! Drugs for the most part are not going to get you lean. You need to figure out the macros that work for you. They are different for everyone. 1 thing is certain, you need to eat plenty of protein. Tweak your fats and carbs. Dont be afraid of good fats. Speaking of carbs have you tried to go low carb? What your doing isnt working so make a change!

At the end of the day it comes down to simple math. Expend more than you take in.
 

mmgsport

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First thing to do is stop eating salad. Worthless calories. When trying to cut do not be afraid to eat. Sometimes more is less! Drugs for the most part are not going to get you lean. You need to figure out the macros that work for you. They are different for everyone. 1 thing is certain, you need to eat plenty of protein. Tweak your fats and carbs. Dont be afraid of good fats. Speaking of carbs have you tried to go low carb? What your doing isnt working so make a change!

At the end of the day it comes down to simple math. Expend more than you take in.
This is really great advice and I appreciate it. I also just question the fact that I’m almost 40 and my body doesn’t respond like it used to and maybe I just need more time.
 
mickc1965

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So I’ve been on a 4AD stack (oral) with Cardarine for 4/5 weeks and eating salad 4 times a day - 2/3 days cardio and lifting heavy and I am 100% not leaning out. My body weight hasn’t changed at all but I’m okay with that I just keep getting swol and won’t lose the beer gut (no I’m not drinking any beer)

I’m 38, 5’10” 191lbs and have not checked my body fat but I’m willing to bet it’s pretty high. I do not want any injectables. I had good success years ago on Primobolan years ago.

I’m planning on running the 4AD another 4/6 weeks with my OCT but wanted to stack the rest of this cycle with something that will REALLY shred me.
It's all about diet, you say you are eating salad but what else are you eating with your salad, are you adding any dressing?

Are you tracking your caloric intake and if so how are you tracking?

Are you weighing all your food?
 
love2liftkat

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I’m completely 100% non disciplined and a super picky eater. IMO I’m almost fat so I don’t care if I lose muscle - I just want to lean out and look defined
You’re contradicting yourself...the muscle is what makes you look lean and defined so you obviously want to keep as much of that as possible. Even if you’re a picky eater, you can still set up a nutrition plan. The key will be to follow it. Discipline is a major key in reaching your goals! My 1st suggestion is to start here- learn about nutrition.

Nutrition and Eating Basics - Part 1
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=253968

2nd suggestion would be to drop 4AD as it is a wet compound and used while bulking vs cutting. Keep the cardarine and just work on nutrition. You do this and you’ll get results!
 

mmgsport

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Thanks.... I'll start reading asap. I do want to be on some sort or cycle to help things along so I would like to get on a more dry compound if this bulking 4AD is in fact doing that.

Can I stop the 4ad and get on Havoc (epi) or do I need to PCT first?
 
brofessorx

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Then learn how to cut. No drug will do that for you
That's not true. But we're not allowed to discuss these drugs as there's a high risk of injury or death from them.
 
brofessorx

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Thanks.... I'll start reading asap. I do want to be on some sort or cycle to help things along so I would like to get on a more dry compound if this bulking 4AD is in fact doing that.

Can I stop the 4ad and get on Havoc (epi) or do I need to PCT first?
If your not disciplined then the first thing you need to know is fat loss is a catabolic process.

Anabolic processes promote muscle as well as fat gain.

Start pct and pick up a great fat loss stack. Your going to need to decide whether you want to be big or lean since you aren't disciplined. You ain't 20 no more. Now you'll have to work for it if you want if.

Cutting calories is going to significantly slow your metabolism so this is where things like higamine will come into play. Read about it here.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/303777-sns-higenamine-energy.html
 

mmgsport

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So I tooooootally goofed. I'm running 3AD - ALCHEMY LABS - SHREDDED3
Which has epi.... Can we start over?
 
justhere4comm

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Do-over. Uhm. No sir, too late, the horse has left the henhouse.

- Old Polish Proverb

Nail the diet.
Exercise.
Rest.
Do again. What does that spell?!!! NERD! NERD! uhm, never mind...
 
CorpKiller

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I’m completely 100% non disciplined and a super picky eater. IMO I’m almost fat so I don’t care if I lose muscle - I just want to lean out and look defined
I hear you man. Keep up the hard work. Maybe ease up on the salad and throw in additional lean protein? Egg whites, whole eggs, fish, and don’t go heavy on the dressing with your salad. Lift light and extra reps, really grind it out. Do intervals and lots of them 1-2x per week, maybe intermittent fasting? Lots of options.
 

mmgsport

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I hear you man. Keep up the hard work. Maybe ease up on the salad and throw in additional lean protein? Egg whites, whole eggs, fish, and don’t go heavy on the dressing with your salad. Lift light and extra reps, really grind it out. Do intervals and lots of them 1-2x per week, maybe intermittent fasting? Lots of options.
thx for that. I just have this F**king gut that I honestly cannot shake. I'm willing to sit and left my ass off but all tht jumping around sh*it is for the birds!! I'll post my diet and see if I can get some help. thx
 
YoungThor

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The fastest way to lose fat is not calorie restriction, it’s simply not eating at all. Watch some YouTube videos on intermittent fasting to learn the ins and outs. I drink beer and eat ice cream when I want I’m still down 9 lbs in the first 25 days. I do not appear to be losing muscle. It works. I should also include that I do cardio everyday but just long walks.
 
YoungThor

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And when I say “when I want” I mean I drink beer and eat ice cream any day I want, but I do it during an eating window.
 
mikeymike85

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Looking lean involves having a good amount of lean body mass. If you are eatting salad with no protein, you are just going to look flat, not lean. Also, like someone else said- estrogen and cortisol control supplement. Reduce XT or Nolvadren help lean me out. ECA Stack with proper diet and high intensity interval cardio.
 
PoSiTiVeFLoW

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I’m completely 100% non disciplined and a super picky eater. IMO I’m almost fat so I don’t care if I lose muscle - I just want to lean out and look defined
Yeah me too was picky eater, still don't eat eggs unless baked in something. But yeah getting lean will cost you muscle too. I did this route once.

Fix diet or improve it... And if you lift to build muscle you will also burn fat. Add some cardio (15min rowing,. elliptical, running) pre lift to get heart rate up to THR.
 

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So I see a lot of semi good advice on here with good intentions but none of it really puts the whole picture together. I'll attempt to put you on the right track but everyone is different...

Some key points to follow: 1. No amount of exercise/supplements will overcome a piss-poor diet. (A piss poor diet isn't just fast food and beer. Its also insuffcient use of carbs and not enough protein or fruits and vegetables to maintain bodily functions.) Your body is a bio chemical math equation that takes into account all of your actions - regardless of whether your aware - so educate yourself on fitness/diet to solve it. 2. Supplements only really "shine" if your diet/exercise plan are on track. Half assed effort gets half assed results. You know when your half assing things so don't be surprised. 3. I don't give a **** what you say-- learn discipline/ you're not a toddler. If you want results you have to earn them. I mean go out there and ****ing make it happen or accept the physique of a chewed up wade of bubblegum. 5. Ok no bull**** it is difficult initially to make the change from bubble gum physique to girls throwing panties physique but once you really educate yourself on diet and exercise and the science behind things its gets alot smoother i promise. This website has some great articles to read over and ill attach some links to a few other diet related ones from another site in the hopes of sharing wisdom.

Ok now with that in mind here is the formula I use.

Exercise: each muscle group twice a week w/ 2-exercises,4-6 sets per, 6-10 reps per. The main focus for me is how do my muscles feel? I'm looking for muscle fatigue, swelling, burn - in order to dictate whether I go from 4 sets to 6 sets or max out at 8 reps or get a spotter to do max reps +2. My overall goal is time under tension mixed with volume to achieve muscle fatigue in order to promote protein synthesis.

Diet:
Protein always! We'll keep it simple 1 gram per lb you weigh. Typically your body can only take in 40grams of protein roughly per meal. With 4 meals a day and sip on protein shakes in between. Your looking for quality/natural sources of protein. Straight from a butcher basically meat and fish, quality whey protein, eggs, cottage cheese... quite a long list here but those are a few of my favorites. Absolutely no Soy proteins. Just don't they do more harm then good. On another note your body actually burns a substantial amount of calories to digest protein so it's great for leaning out.

Cardio: is your way of forcing your body to use up stored energy. The trick is that if you do cardio for too long your body converts from burning fat for energy to muscle for energy and releasing cortisol. So stick to cardio sessions below 30 minutes. The ideal range is 20-30 minutes a session and 2 sessions a day is kind of ideal. The more you put in the more you get out. Just keep a focus on how your muscle feel and allow for adequate recovery time. Honestly though I do only 4 sessions a week.

Carbohydrates: I typically stick to carb cycling or 100 grams of carbs a day. Until I get my desired physique, at which point it becomes a balancing act with more lee way then usual. But for now you should stick to those two principles when not eating protein. Carb cycling is basically only eating carbs on the days your going to exercise. And keeping the carbs to a moderate amount that would be necessary for the energy used while exercising. Your body needs energy to carry out the functions needed to operate biologically/ internally. When that isn't there cortisol and other things can get out of wack. Your body requires quality sources of proteins and carbohydrates in order to function properly during exercise and recovery in order to lose weight and build muscle. Without a source for either your body may/will/is behaving different biologically via a means of animalistic preservation and will try to store fat in order to keep you alive. But that's a whole nother subject.... stick to carb cycling with quality sources of carbohydrates. I'll pm you some articles later. The list can be extensive.

Fruits/Vegetables: eat these with out care but make sure your hitting your protein numbers and carbohydrate numbers. The host of physiological benefits from a diet high a varied amount of these is also too exhaustive to write. But they are vitally important.

As for supplements here are my favorites for leaning out: 11ketotestosterone and Androvar mixed. It's worked and I stick with it.

Those types of supplements aside at a minimum have omega3 fish oil, ZMA, BCAA's, and Creatine. These will be your basics for normal bodily functions at all times. I could add more but will keep it simple for now.

Sleep: 7-8hrs. Don't underestimate the importance of sleep it is vital for physiological functions to operate in order for recovery.

I sincerely hope this has been informative for you.
 
Cgkone

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Second on the stane. Trying to cut is diet.
Clen is cool. T3 is cool
 

johnny412

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Arimistane won't do jack.
it does wonders if it doesnt do anything for you personally then you probably are already in good shape or dont have any estrogen issues...everybodys situation is different...
 

johnny412

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No, my estrogen is right on the money bro. I take Aromasin. Something that actually affects estrogen, unlike Arimistane which is garbage. You're the same idiot that stated MK677 has a half-life of 4-6 hours and it should be dosed at
50mg 3x daily. You should not be dispensing advice.
im pretty sure he was talking to the op silly lol
 
justhere4comm

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Arimistane is a derivative of DHEA associated with 7-Keto DHEA, why not just get INVICTUS from Iron Legion? It will control his cortisol levels but that is minimal here, and the big answer is diet. Nothing overcomes the diet which has been stated.

There are no human studies for Arimistane.
 
brofessorx

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Everybody wasting their time when op clearly stated he isn’t disciplined enough to do the thing that work naturally.
And so many idiots think steroids burn fat which isn’t really the case.
 

johnny412

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Arimistane is a derivative of DHEA associated with 7-Keto DHEA, why not just get INVICTUS from Iron Legion? It will control his cortisol levels but that is minimal here, and the big answer is diet. Nothing overcomes the diet which has been stated.

There are no human studies for Arimistane.
lmao there are no human studies for alot of sh+t we take
 

Tiko1991

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I appreciate that and you’re 100% right. But i also wanna make sure I’m on the right stuff. If the 4AD that I’m On is for bulking and keeping me thick perhaps I should I add havoc and also change my diet.
Can you still find legit havoc ?
 
justhere4comm

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dude you seem angry about something idk but i think you have just turned me off to black lion research good job
It's a healthy debate bud, no anger here.
I was one of those arguing for a healthy diet.

  • Nail the diet.
  • Exercise.
  • Rest.
  • Do again.
That is the only answer here for the OP.
No supplement will help him.

I bet you never had a rep say that before.
 
BloodManor

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It's a healthy debate bud, no anger here.
I was one of those arguing for a healthy diet.

  • Nail the diet.
  • Exercise.
  • Rest.
  • Do again.
That is the only answer here for the OP.
No supplement will help him.

I bet you never had a rep say that before.
I say that all the time :p
 

niklasericson

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So I’ve been on a 4AD stack (oral) with Cardarine for 4/5 weeks and eating salad 4 times a day - 2/3 days cardio and lifting heavy and I am 100% not leaning out. My body weight hasn’t changed at all but I’m okay with that I just keep getting swol and won’t lose the beer gut (no I’m not drinking any beer)

I’m 38, 5’10” 191lbs and have not checked my body fat but I’m willing to bet it’s pretty high. I do not want any injectables. I had good success years ago on Primobolan years ago.

I’m planning on running the 4AD another 4/6 weeks with my OCT but wanted to stack the rest of this cycle with something that will REALLY shred me.
Diet.
I adding little more carbs when I reach a weight loss plataeu, it's working for me to keep the weight loss going BUT it can be other factors as well.
DHT is crucial for effective weight loss and to get a hard body and I was taking the DHT blocker Dutasteride for hair loss a couple a years ago and it became totaly impossible to lose fat and get a hard body, diet in check, training and cardio in check but no result at all.
Stopped Duta and after a couple of mounth I've got the result I was looking for, then I realized how important DHT was for this matter.
I'am 43yo
 

mmgsport

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************OP HERE***********

some of you are getting it and some of you not. This isn’t meant to fire up some huge debate about drugs vs diet vs routine.

As someone said “I’m not disciplined enough to do this 100% natural” - #truth

I also am aware that I cannot take a magic pill and POOF!!! I’m super lean!! I get it.

Here is what I’m saying:

I eat relatively clean. Lots of salad (with grilled chicken) and lots of grilled chicken alone. Am I weighing my food? No. Am I counting macros and calories and ****? No.

I do cardio but not tons (15 min 5 days a week) and I lift Monday through Friday varied routines.

All I was asking for was something to help my current routine along. That’s it. The NEW information that I received was that I’m NOT on 4AD. I’m on 3AD with epi built I to it. Called SHREDDED3 By Alchemy labs.

Does this make sense now?
 

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