Can’t get estradjol under control and starting to get worried

[drejb]

Hey guys.

Not entirely sure what to do here. About 3 months ago my e2 came back at 240 pmol/L. My protocol at that time was

60mg test
.5mg arimidex
500iu HCG

Twice per week for a total of 120 / 1 / 1000

I was pretty inconsistent with my dosing and after talking to the group realized my HCG was probably too high.

So I did 3 months at

60mg test
250iu HCG
.5mg arimidex

Twice per week for a total of 120 / 1 / 500iu

I dropped my HCG by half and was consistent with making sure my arimidex was taken every week at the same time as my test and HCG injection

Just got labs done this morning and my e2 came back at 275!!!?? Even higher than last time. I can’t figure it out

I don’t have high estrogen sides at all. I feel great. All the rest of my labs came back great including blood count and lipids

Not sure what else to do aside from taking another .5mg arimidex mid week?

Please help

 

[Stacks1]

Have you tried pinning subq? Not sure if it will do anything but some guys have told me they have less estrogen issues pinning their test subq for TRT.

 

[drejb]

Have you tried pinning subq? Not sure if it will do anything but some guys have told me they have less estrogen issues pinning their test subq for TRT.

I have but not consistently.

I was thinking about trying to split my dose into Monday / Wednesday / Friday.

40T
150 HCG
.5/.25/.5 arimidex.

Another thing I’m thinking is, I used to take my bloods 72 hours post injection. Lately I’ve been taking them 96 hours post injection right before my next dose of T / Adex.

I dose Monday and Thursday morning. So I test in the morning fasted before my Thursday dose.

Maybe that additional time between arimidex doses is showing a more elevated level of E2. Because usually 72 hours post dosing I see 160-170

 

[Stacks1]

I have but not consistently.

I was thinking about trying to split my dose into Monday / Wednesday / Friday.

40T
150 HCG
.5/.25/.5 arimidex.

I'm not sure it would work but more frequent subq shots have had better estrogen control for a lot of people. I think that plan makes sense to try.

 

[manifesto]

I would ditch the HCG...unless you're trying to get someone pregnant

 

[drejb]

I would ditch the HCG...unless you're trying to get someone pregnant

Yes my wife and I want one more child

 

[Hyde]

I don’t have high estrogen sides at all. I feel great. All the rest of my labs came back great including blood count and lipids

Reread what you wrote here in your original post, then consider if you actually have a problem.

Estrogen is protective for the cardiovascular system, skeletal system, and your brain. It contributes to libido, joint health, better lipid profile.

Are you having consistent erectile or libido issues? Are you experiencing nipple sensitivity or the onset of gynecomastia? Are you experiencing excessive water retention contributing to obviously elevated blood pressure (which will longterm damage the kidneys and cardiovascular system)?

If you answered no to all 3 of those questions, and you feel great with good bloods, you don’t have a problem with your higher estrogen. Life is good.

 

[drejb]

Reread what you wrote here in your original post, then consider if you actually have a problem.

Estrogen is protective for the cardiovascular system, skeletal system, and your brain. It contributes to libido, joint health, better lipid profile.

Are you having consistent erectile or libido issues? Are you experiencing nipple sensitivity or the onset of gynecomastia? Are you experiencing excessive water retention contributing to obviously elevated blood pressure (which will longterm damage the kidneys and cardiovascular system)?

If you answered no to all 3 of those questions, and you feel great with good bloods, you don’t have a problem with your higher estrogen. Life is good.

Only thing out of those 3 is sometimes I have erection issues. Hard to say recently because I’ve been taking 5mg cialis daily. So I’ll axe that and see how it goes. I don’t have water retention I don’t think and my blood pressure is good. No nipple pain or Gyno

It’s interesting however that my testosterone came back at 624 (one of my lowest readings on TRT) and sbgh at 27. Yet this is the highest my e2 has ever been

 

[botk1161]

Injecting daily really helped me

 

[drejb]

Injecting daily really helped me

Did you have to lower your dosage for daily injections? I’ve read this before.

I was planning to start a blast after these labs but not sure I should before getting my e2 under control

 

[Hyde]

Only thing out of those 3 is sometimes I have erection issues. Hard to say recently because I’ve been taking 5mg cialis daily. So I’ll axe that and see how it goes. I don’t have water retention I don’t think and my blood pressure is good. No nipple pain or Gyno

It’s interesting however that my testosterone came back at 624 (one of my lowest readings on TRT) and sbgh at 27. Yet this is the highest my e2 has ever been

I don’t know that you need to stop the Cialis, unless you hate taking it or something. It has some health benefits.

For me, HCG use did cause some erectile inconsistency here and there. And libido inconsistency - it’s a little bit of a roller coaster when done at 2 shots per week, basically surges of estrogen that impart libido ups and downs. I’m not saying to change anything with your administration, just for your understanding. Like if actively trying to conceive, and you have a certain day of the week where you nearly always have sex, set one of your weekly pin days on or ahead of that so you find the most arousal when you want it.

HRT is about better quality of life, not numbers on paper. 600s and feeling great is infinitely better than 800s but feeling off. The numbers aren’t even always that relevant for muscle/gym performance. When you feel good you train better, and a few hundred points of total test is NOT what is the determining factor for building physiques.

 

[Stacks1]

HRT is about better quality of life, not numbers on paper. 600s and feeling great is infinitely better than 800s but feeling off. The numbers aren’t even always that relevant for muscle/gym performance. When you feel good you train better, and a few hundred points of total test is NOT what is the determining factor for building physiques.

More people should read this.

 

[drejb]

I don’t know that you need to stop the Cialis, unless you hate taking it or something. It has some health benefits.

For me, HCG use did cause some erectile inconsistency here and there. And libido inconsistency - it’s a little bit of a roller coaster when done at 2 shots per week, basically surges of estrogen that impart libido ups and downs. I’m not saying to change anything with your administration, just for your understanding. Like if actively trying to conceive, and you have a certain day of the week where you nearly always have sex, set one of your weekly pin days on or ahead of that so you find the most arousal when you want it.

HRT is about better quality of life, not numbers on paper. 600s and feeling great is infinitely better than 800s but feeling off. The numbers aren’t even always that relevant for muscle/gym performance. When you feel good you train better, and a few hundred points of total test is NOT what is the determining factor for building physiques.

This is great Hyde. You think I’d benefit from dosing my HCG EOD or more frequently? I don’t mind pinning.

 

[Hyde]

This is great Hyde. You think I’d benefit from dosing my HCG EOD or more frequently? I don’t mind pinning.

I doubt it. Would pinning your test and HCG daily be better? Maybe??? And maybe not. Is it worth 14 injections a week? I hope you conclude ‘no’. It’s not that much smoother that it warrants more than 100% more injections. Perfect doesn’t exist.

I mean you can certainly experiment, same as you can with your test shots or going to subq on those, or both. Just understand that this stuff isn’t black and white always, and you need to be practical about what you can commit to. Every injection is a chance for an infection and a tiny bit of scar tissue, so you need to mind the long game as well.

 

[drejb]

I doubt it. Would pinning your test and HCG daily be better? Maybe??? And maybe not. Is it worth 14 injections a week? I hope you conclude ‘no’. It’s not that much smoother that it warrants more than 100% more injections. Perfect doesn’t exist.

I mean you can certainly experiment, same as you can with your test shots or going to subq on those, or both. Just understand that this stuff isn’t black and white always, and you need to be practical about what you can commit to. Every injection is a chance for an infection and a tiny bit of scar tissue, so you need to mind the long game as well.

I know some guys on HRT will actually cycle
HCG on and off to keep fertility and drop everything other than test, add an AI when they’re taking their HCG due to elevated e2.

Any insight on this?

 

[Hyde]

I know some guys on HRT will actually cycle
HCG on and off to keep fertility and drop everything other than test, add an AI when they’re taking their HCG due to elevated e2.

Any insight on this?

If you’re actively trying to conceive, run HCG. If not, I wouldn’t bother running it continuously.

Some guys like myself barely shrink, if at all. I have been blast/cruise for over 3 years now and my testes are currently full size. They shrink up somewhat on more suppressive compounds, then fill back out quickly afterwards. It’s individual. The big thing is to not let them get too small for too long. If they do shrink, cycling the HCG could indeed help maintain their responsiveness better.

 

[Smont]

Have you tried pinning subq? Not sure if it will do anything but some guys have told me they have less estrogen issues pinning their test subq for TRT.

It's not so much that sub q makes a difference, but more It's the higher injection frequency. But i'm gonna take a wild guess and say that his issue is too much hcg. Hcg in smaller more frequent doses also should help.

 

[Smont]

Daily pins im or sub q should make a big diff Because you have smaller estrogen spikes from the smaller doses, So it doesn't buildup as much

 

[botk1161]

Did you have to lower your dosage for daily injections? I’ve read this before.

I was planning to start a blast after these labs but not sure I should before getting my e2 under control

I did not lower my dose - test levels did not really change, but e2 was able to be controlled without an AI which is a big win imo for long term trt

 

[Stacks1]

It's not so much that sub q makes a difference, but more It's the higher injection frequency. But i'm gonna take a wild guess and say that his issue is too much hcg. Hcg in smaller more frequent doses also should help.

Typically that's the case. Although some people say that because it absorbs slower than IM it makes a difference too. I haven't pinned subq yet, so I can't really compare. But yes, the idea would be to pin EOD or even ED. Although one of the posters on here said he was pinning 10mgs ED and it took him to supraphysiological levels so he had to stop, which I find interesting.

 

[Smont]

Typically that's the case. Although some people say that because it absorbs slower than IM it makes a difference too. I haven't pinned subq yet, so I can't really compare. But yes, the idea would be to pin EOD or even ED. Although one of the posters on here said he was pinning 10mgs ED and it took him to supraphysiological levels so he had to stop, which I find interesting.

Thats greenmachine, hes a extreme outlier. Ive done 25mg daily and it gets me around 1000.

Doing 125 every 5 days low 900's

150 once a week about 900, all similar numbers.

On a cycle i can manage up to about 500mg test with daily pins no ai but anything higher or add another "wet" compound and i need a ai.

I've seen a lot of blood work and never seen anyone who gets over 800 on 100mg test off top of my head. 70mg would give me low T.

 

[Stacks1]

Thats greenmachine, hes a extreme outlier. Ive done 25mg daily and it gets me around 1000.

Doing 125 every 5 days low 900's

150 once a week about 900, all similar numbers.

On a cycle i can manage up to about 500mg test with daily pins no ai but anything higher or add another "wet" compound and i need a ai.

I've seen a lot of blood work and never seen anyone who gets over 800 on 100mg test off top of my head. 70mg would give me low T.

Actually it was @kisaj who I was thinking about. He was doing 10mgs per day but it took his test to 1,000 - 1,200, same E2, but hemoglobin and BP went up, so he went back to IM 2x per week. His IM dosage is higher but his test is lower, although within a more comfortable range of 700-800 for him. It's odd how that would happen but interesting.

 

[drejb]

Thats greenmachine, hes a extreme outlier. Ive done 25mg daily and it gets me around 1000.

Doing 125 every 5 days low 900's

150 once a week about 900, all similar numbers.

On a cycle i can manage up to about 500mg test with daily pins no ai but anything higher or add another "wet" compound and i need a ai.

I've seen a lot of blood work and never seen anyone who gets over 800 on 100mg test off top of my head. 70mg would give me low T.

I’d like to start my 400mg blast right now but not entirely sure how to proceed given my e2 level. My lipids and everything else are perfect since my last anavar cycle and that was the primary goal before my first test blast. Maybe I can drop the HCG for the blast and add it back a couple months following my cycle completion?

 

[Smont]

I’d like to start my 400mg blast right now but not entirely sure how to proceed given my e2 level. My lipids and everything else are perfect since my last anavar cycle and that was the primary goal before my first test blast. Maybe I can drop the HCG for the blast and add it back a couple months following my cycle completion?

Im not saying this is the answer for certain but i do think removing the hcg would change things dramatically. Id try that for a few weeks and see if e2 drops in range. You could also try matching your test with primo. 300/300, i think if someone has issues with estrogen primo or mast is gonna be a huge help on cycle. You should probably stick with dht"s

 

[drejb]

Im not saying this is the answer for certain but i do think removing the hcg would change things dramatically. Id try that for a few weeks and see if e2 drops in range. You could also try matching your test with primo. 300/300, i think if someone has issues with estrogen primo or mast is gonna be a huge help on cycle. You should probably stick with dht"s

When I dropped my HCG from 1000iu to 500 my trough value went from around 1100 to 700. Do you think it’s possible to drop the HCG to 250/week and split my test dose into 3 that would make sense? I was hoping to do a test only cycle since it’s my first real cycle

 

[Smont]

When I dropped my HCG from 1000iu to 500 my trough value went from around 1100 to 700. Do you think it’s possible to drop the HCG to 250/week and split my test dose into 3 that would make sense? I was hoping to do a test only cycle since it’s my first real cycle

Id be guessing so idk. But tje reason your test goes down is because 60mg is half a trt dose. If i was trying to figure it out on myself id probably bring test up to 100-120ish doing 15-20mg a day, drop hcg and monitor changes. Its not something thats gonna get figured out right away

 

[drejb]

Id be guessing so idk. But tje reason your test goes down is because 60mg is half a trt dose. If i was trying to figure it out on myself id probably bring test up to 100-120ish doing 15-20mg a day, drop hcg and monitor changes. Its not something thats gonna get figured out right away

I do 60mg twice a week so 120mg total

 

[Stacks1]

When I dropped my HCG from 1000iu to 500 my trough value went from around 1100 to 700. Do you think it’s possible to drop the HCG to 250/week and split my test dose into 3 that would make sense? I was hoping to do a test only cycle since it’s my first real cycle

I am probably absolutely 100% wrong here but I am just going from memory and throwing it out there..... but wouldn't HMG maybe be a better alternative to HCG regarding fertility?

 

[drejb]

I am probably absolutely 100% wrong here but I am just going from memory and throwing it out there..... but wouldn't HMG maybe be a better alternative to HCG regarding fertility?

I am not entirely sure

 

[Stacks1]

I am not entirely sure

Me neither. I just threw it out there because I thought that was what I had heard in the past but I don't know if it's true. I was hoping someone else could shed some light on it.

 

[Hyde]

Me neither. I just threw it out there because I thought that was what I had heard in the past but I don't know if it's true. I was hoping someone else could shed some light on it.

Yes HMG is what you really want to push if actively trying to conceive, along with a bit of HCG. HMG acts like FSH, while HCG proxies LH. So lots of “FSH” means lots more swimmers.

But it is typically harder to get and expensive for the amounts you would want to continually push, so it’s not so much for “We would like to get pregnant over this year” as “We’re trying to conceive ASAP, mapping the ovulation window & dropping a creampie nearly daily in that timeframe, religiously”.

A lot of people probably won’t need it. But if you get your swimmers tested at the urologist and they are low even on some HCG and true replacement levels of test, that’s a good play.

 

[BCseacow83]

OP are you trying to conceive NOW or LATER. If later how long down the road are we talking?

 

[drejb]

OP are you trying to conceive NOW or LATER. If later how long down the road are we talking?

Probably in a few months late summer early spring. I started taking HCG about 3 years before we had our first kid which was 3 years ago. And just kept taking it because I assumed if I stopped my potential to conceive would go down. My doc never told me I could be off of it until I was actually trying to conceive