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Bulk w/ Keto-Themed Diet - Thoughts/Input?

sparks2012

sparks2012

Well-known member
Alright, so I've had a great deal of success using low/no carb and higher fat/protein consumption during a cut, and I was doing some reading that suggested a Keto-style "bulk" - or rather a lean gaining phase, is possible.

First off, I've never done any blood work to check level of ketones during my cut so I do not know if I've ever reached ketosis 100%. I do know that keeping carbs under 60-80g/day lent a dramatic loss in fat while still consuming only 300-400 cals under maintenance level. I've also read that lower carb intake and higher percentage of protein intake could lead gluconeogenesis (I could be wrong with the term, but I know it's GNG for short), which ultimately isn't a good thing.

I'd plan on running a 40/40/20 breakdown of equal parts protein/fats and 20% carbs for daily intake, with room to fluctuate those numbers as long a carbs didn't go above 20% (ideally they'd stay at 10-15%). Maintenance cals is around 2800 and I'd plan to jump to 3000-3100 to start off and see how that holds up. I know everyone is different in how they process nutrients, but my questions are:

-Is GNG an issue I would need to worry about if I planned on running this diet style for 4-5 months only?

-With protein being that high would that have a negative impact on kidneys?

-Is it even practical to try and add LBM on a Keto-style diet?
 
If you're consuming 20% carbs at 2800 calories, that seems a bit high to be in keto. I always have great success with keto while cutting, but I've never enjoyed it bulking. Eating high fat in a calorie surplus makes me feel like crap. Also, if your protein intake is too high you can risk falling out of keto. I would say give it a try and see how you like it, but I find that my body prefers carbs for fuel while bulking. My lifts are bigger, I feel stronger, and I am able to put on muscle much quicker. Bulking on keto can be done, but it is difficult to do. Your fats will need to be higher and carbs will need to be lower in maintain ketosis IMO
 
john.patterson said:
If you're consuming 20% carbs at 2800 calories, that seems a bit high to be in keto. I always have great success with keto while cutting, but I've never enjoyed it bulking. Eating high fat in a calorie surplus makes me feel like crap. Also, if your protein intake is too high you can risk falling out of keto. I would say give it a try and see how you like it, but I find that my body prefers carbs for fuel while bulking. My lifts are bigger, I feel stronger, and I am able to put on muscle much quicker. Bulking on keto can be done, but it is difficult to do. Your fats will need to be higher and carbs will need to be lower in maintain ketosis IMO
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I agree it's totally person dependent, for me personally I'm a Rockstar on keto regardless of bulking cutting. If I go to a diet with carbs higher than 5% the first 2 days are great but I feel like sh1t after that. With carbs energy is constantly up and down all day where as keto it's nice steady all day!
 
john.patterson thank you, I know 20% is a little high to be considered "keto" but it was a rough estimate. My protein intake is generally always pretty high, so it could take more tweaking on the diet than I thought. Seems counterintuitive to decrease protein, but that's the name of this game. br1ck_Sh1thouse yeah, the main reason I was wondering was because I had a somewhat carb heavy meal the other day and I felt great for like 30 mins but right after that my energy crashed. I've never had that happen until I went really low on carbs (low for me anyway) so I'm not too sure what that's about.
 
sparks2012 said:
john.patterson thank you, I know 20% is a little high to be considered "keto" but it was a rough estimate. My protein intake is generally always pretty high, so it could take more tweaking on the diet than I thought. Seems counterintuitive to decrease protein, but that's the name of this game. br1ck_Sh1thouse yeah, the main reason I was wondering was because I had a somewhat carb heavy meal the other day and I felt great for like 30 mins but right after that my energy crashed. I've never had that happen until I went really low on carbs (low for me anyway) so I'm not too sure what that's about.
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Are you sure you have your healthy fats high enough? That will offset the low carbs
 
Gutterpump I'm leaning towards the same mindset, bulk/cut seems too cut and dry. A recomp you're constantly making changes, or at least attempting to, which is really what I'm doing at this point while in a slight deficit.
SWOLDIER_1 I don't even really know if even been in a ketogenic state before, I currently have no way to test. Generally, it looks to be <50g/day which I've done but normally I'm in the 60-75g range. Not sure if it's possible to reach keto that way.
 
sparks2012 said:
Gutterpump I'm leaning towards the same mindset, bulk/cut seems too cut and dry. A recomp you're constantly making changes, or at least attempting to, which is really what I'm doing at this point while in a slight deficit.
SWOLDIER_1 I don't even really know if even been in a ketogenic state before, I currently have no way to test. Generally, it looks to be <50g/day which I've done but normally I'm in the 60-75g range. Not sure if it's possible to reach keto that way.
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Depending on your adjusted bmr you can hit keto in that range.
 
SWOLDIER_1 said:
Are you sure you have your healthy fats high enough? That will offset the low carbs
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I'm consuming between 130-150g of fats from whole food sources (bison, avocado, turkey burgers, olive oil, PB) which, if my tracker is right is somewhere around 40% of my caloric intake. That's probably the highest I've ever kept my fats for an extended period.
 
sparks2012 said:
I'm consuming between 130-150g of fats from whole food sources (bison, avocado, turkey burgers, olive oil, PB) which, if my tracker is right is somewhere around 40% of my caloric intake. That's probably the highest I've ever kept my fats for an extended period.
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Are getting bacon and steaks in there. Burgers. Whole eggs w your whites
 
SWOLDIER_1 said:
Ok good. U can have bacon w your breakfast. 3-5 pieces
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I'll experiment and add that in. I love bacon so it's a win-win if it works lol.

Gutterpump said:
Yup, on the diet, I wouldn't even eat egg whites anymore. Whole eggs all day, everyday. Boil em up and just snack on them nonstop between meals.
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I would save some money by using whole eggs for breakfast instead of whites in a carton. I have 1 (16oz) carton with 1 bison burger, and half an avocado for breakfast. I suppose if I had a half dozen eggs for breakfast that would be just as filling.

Only reason I switched to whites was because, you know, calories.
 
sparks2012 said:
I'll experiment and add that in. I love bacon so it's a win-win if it works lol.

Should work fine.


I would save some money by using whole eggs for breakfast instead of whites in a carton. I have 1 (16oz) carton with 1 bison burger, and half an avocado for breakfast. I suppose if I had a half dozen eggs for breakfast that would be just as filling.

Only reason I switched to whites was because, you know, calories.
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Ya. Burgers with avacado is bomb. I usually for lunch or dinner have a 1/2 pound burger which is 95% lean beef with homemade guacamole and lettuce for the bun. Sometimes throw on some bacon w it. Filling healthy and delicious
 
sparks2012 said:
I'm consuming between 130-150g of fats from whole food sources (bison, avocado, turkey burgers, olive oil, PB) which, if my tracker is right is somewhere around 40% of my caloric intake. That's probably the highest I've ever kept my fats for an extended period.
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Just my 2 cents....
My guess is that you're in a nebulous zone between traditional bb zone and ketosis. I know it's tough to decrease protein, I maintain the best state of ketosis when I'm eating 75%f, 25%p and 5%c
And I can def add muscle with that ratio. What's nice is I now use a lot less protein powder and save a ton by doing so. If I want to splurge I'll get some nice Australian grass fed filet mignon from Shoprite when it goes on sale for 4.99/lb.
 
SWOLDIER_1 said:
Ya. Burgers with avacado is bomb. I usually for lunch or dinner have a 1/2 pound burger which is 95% lean beef with homemade guacamole and lettuce for the bun. Sometimes throw on some bacon w it. Filling healthy and delicious
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Avocados themselves are the bomb eat a least one day usually 2! But when you add the avocado to a bacon blue cheese burger it's the BOMB! (no bread of course, if I'm needing something to hold it I use grilled portobello caps as buns!)
 
sparks2012 said:
I'll experiment and add that in. I love bacon so it's a win-win if it works lol.



I would save some money by using whole eggs for breakfast instead of whites in a carton. I have 1 (16oz) carton with 1 bison burger, and half an avocado for breakfast. I suppose if I had a half dozen eggs for breakfast that would be just as filling.

Only reason I switched to whites was because, you know, calories.
Click to expand...

Yup, that's a staple breakfast of mine. 6 eggs with bacon and maybe sausage, with a protein (blend) shake on the side. Definitely possible to gain if you eat like this, and it will be clean gains.
 
I need to look into this paleo / protein bread thing... I usually try to keep the grocery bill down but looks like it can make for some good meals and satiate the need for texture in my food.
 
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