Bulk P-Slin MassMonster shake Discussion!

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I would go 60g WMS 60g Dextrose :thumbsup:

Meh....I wish I would not have bought this now.

I'm not too confident in this products ability to control insulin and not lead to massive fat gains with that much cho peri workout. :dunno:

I have tried 400mg 15-20 minutes before three carb heavy meals so far and I end up bloated and lethargic.

1-1/2 cups of oats + 1 cup of blueberries

16oz of sweet potatoes (I've had pslin with this meal twice)

Thoughts???
 
Meh....I wish I would not have bought this now.

I'm not too confident in this products ability to control insulin and not lead to massive fat gains with that much cho peri workout. :dunno:

I have tried 400mg 15-20 minutes before three carb heavy meals so far and I end up bloated and lethargic.

1-1/2 cups of oats + 1 cup of blueberries

16oz of sweet potatoes (I've had pslin with this meal twice)

Thoughts???

OK.....

I just mixed up my intra shake......

40g WMS
75g Dex/malto mix
45g Whey Hydro
800mg PSlin

I'll take 200mg Caffeine, Clout and BO pre and report my thoughts post workout :thumbsup:
 
To everyone that is mixing WMS:

To take full advantage of the high molecular weight, low osmolality properties, WMS must be the primary substance in the drink. Also, peptide-bound AA severely slow the absorption and counteracts the whole purpose of WMS. Free-form AA (e.g. EAA, BCAA) are ok, but, again, the amount does not need to be huge. Personally, I prefer a drink with 80g WMS, 20g SuperCarb, and 15g BCAA. This puts the WMS at ~70% of the mixture, which is about the minimum for optimal absorption, while the SC helps for slower release carbs along with the BCAA to kickstart protein synthesis.
 
To everyone that is mixing WMS:

To take full advantage of the high molecular weight, low osmolality properties, WMS must be the primary substance in the drink. Also, peptide-bound AA severely slow the absorption and counteracts the whole purpose of WMS. Free-form AA (e.g. EAA, BCAA) are ok, but, again, the amount does not need to be huge. Personally, I prefer a drink with 80g WMS, 20g SuperCarb, and 15g BCAA. This puts the WMS at ~70% of the mixture, which is about the minimum for optimal absorption, while the SC helps for slower release carbs along with the BCAA to kickstart protein synthesis.


Drinking WMS solo is a silly practice. I think spending money on WMS is silly as well but people like it.
 
I like waxy with leucine creatine and glycobol. Use it post work out on training days. I also put 1 cap pslin in a gallon of water and drink it all day long. Seems to have been working extremly well
 
I like waxy with leucine creatine and glycobol. Use it post work out on training days. I also put 1 cap pslin in a gallon of water and drink it all day long. Seems to have been working extremly well

Combined with Leucine/pslin I see a reason but solo, just silly.
 
Jacob, could you please expand on R-Mac's question in post #393? The original is on the page before. I'm interested in this as well.
 
Jacob, could you please expand on R-Mac's question in post #393? The original is on the page before. I'm interested in this as well.

There is a a school of thought that says to only eat when you're hungry, not when the clock passes another 3 hours. Phil Herndon uses this method with some of his clients. I can somewhat agree with this philosophy since there are days when I am not hungry within 3 hours of my last meal. I also like to utilize a modified Paleo diet when trying to get lean (note: this is not the same protocol I use for performance).
 
There is a a school of thought that says to only eat when you're hungry, not when the clock passes another 3 hours. Phil Herndon uses this method with some of his clients. I can somewhat agree with this philosophy since there are days when I am not hungry within 3 hours of my last meal. I also like to utilize a modified Paleo diet when trying to get lean (note: this is not the same protocol I use for performance).

I agree...force feeding is the worst for digestion and absorption and most of these guys from the bb mags (where we read about force feeding every three hours is probably the last place we should seek information) are on **** load of pharmacueticals so for the average cat. I agree.
 
I agree...force feeding is the worst for digestion and absorption and most of these guys from the bb mags (where we read about force feeding every three hours is probably the last place we should seek information) are on **** load of pharmacueticals so for the average cat. I agree.

Force-feeding is one of the main reasons for the nasty guts in BBing now. That and a lack of produce consumed with the grains/protein.
 
In stock and decided to reduce cost by 10 dollars for a limited time so we all can play with this cool bulk powder.

So its $20 now???!!! I FINALLY ordered some and before it even gets to me, it goes on sale.
This sucks:28:
 
I've started taking 1 AP about 30 minutes prior to drinking my "Mass monster" shake pre/during training. I'm not sure if this defeats the purpose of spiking insulin, but It seems to be helping me stay leaner than without the AP. Not that I was getting fat before, just that progress was slower.

The shake is

500mg bulk p-slin
60g WMS
1/2 cup ground oats(40-50g carbs)
4 scoops xtend

It's been about 2 weeks since I started adding the AP, and it's making a difference, as I'm getting leaner, quicker than I was before, which shouldn't be as I'm below 10% bf right now. Historically, when I even get close to this level of leanness, I have a hard time making any progress. My weight has been steady, strength is climbing, and measurements have actually either remained the same, or increased slightly. Overall diet is just below maintenance (200-400 cals) most days. I train in the morning, and I only have a protein shake (+3-5g Lucine) and 1 tsp of fish oil about 1.5-2 hours before I start my preworkout supps. Those include Jack3d, DominATP, and Refresh(until I ran out).
 
Sounds great! I had a similar method named, "The Double Carb Load", that went like this:

30 minutes Pre-Meal:

1 AP

Pre-WO Meal:

80-100g carbs - 70/30% mixture of complex/simple

(workout 1 hour and 15 minutes later)

On the way to gym:

1 P-Slin
5g Creatine Mono
5g Leucine
300mg Caffeine Anyhdrous/Pre-WO supplement.

Down this, wait until you're at the gym, and begin sipping on one large Gatorade. Your muscles cells are so primed, and in such an anabolic state, that the Gatorade will continually replenish glycogen stores without the risk of an Insulin spike (due to the hormonal balance of workout). I find there is no bloat with this, and inter-set recovery is phenomenal.

As well, via the glucose transport from the Gatorade, and translocated GLUT4, Creatine absorption even in the Monohydrate form is not an issue. I usually do a 10-minute cardio warm up + stretch, which also allows the Caffeine to kick in.

The pumps are almost too much to bear, recovery is amazing, stamina is up, and strength and endurance are increased. This is not just the AP/P-Slin at work, but mostly the large amount of carbohydrates in this manner; the purpose of AP/P-Slin, is to allow your body to more efficiently use this amount of carbohydrates without a large risk of adipose storage and/or bloat.

The fact is that with this protocol, risk for adipose storage is low for several reasons - namely, the anti-lipogenic/lipolytic effects of AP/P-Slin, as well as the high utilization of glucose for substrate oxidation, due to the actions of AP-induced AMPk. Layman's terms: the body will use the high amount of glucose as efficiently as possible, without metabolizing local tissues - i.e., muscle!
 
I added the AP exactly for that reason. I figured that I could continue to use my p-slin shake with even less of a chance of any fat gain. I notice many of the same things you do using this method. I used to get some bloat from the shake alone. Not too much, but noticeable. Now I get zero bloat. I've been able to get leaner than I ever have, and my workouts are always well fueled and productive. I'll never cut carbs way low to drop fat again.
 
Probably getting my bulk pslin tomorrow. Would Gatoraid and Oats be good enough for the carb source? Also did anyone ever figure out if 1/4 tsp was 400 or 800?
 
Huge statement and EXACTLY what Anabolic Pump is all about! Some people are listening!

I'm an Endo-Meso body type, and could never get below 10% bf ever. Even when I got close, my carbs would have to be so low that my training performance was usually terrible. Now, I can go full bore every workout and continue to make progress over time instead of barely hanging on to my previous strength levels, endurance, muscle mass, etc. It's great stuff.

Probably getting my bulk pslin tomorrow. Would Gatoraid and Oats be good enough for the carb source? Also did anyone ever figure out if 1/4 tsp was 400 or 800?


400 I believe.
 
Been on for about two weeks now. I run a 5 on 3 off split not that it matters. But I am getting more reps with more weight weekly at what seems to be a faster pace than normal. I'll try the YG pre monster and see what that does as I get sorta bloated on this large concoction in such a short time.

45min b4 wo anadraulic state 1 scoop

15 min b4 start sipin:
3 scoops whey
3 scoops waxi 1 scoop sugar
15g ibcaa
5g creatine
5g BA
1/2 teaspoon p-slin(this comes out on my mg scale at ~800 this stuf is sticky and packs tight so there is a lot of variability, not rocket science though)

Any sugestions are welcome
 
Been on for about two weeks now. I run a 5 on 3 off split not that it matters. But I am getting more reps with more weight weekly at what seems to be a faster pace than normal. I'll try the YG pre monster and see what that does as I get sorta bloated on this large concoction in such a short time.

45min b4 wo anadraulic state 1 scoop

15 min b4 start sipin:
3 scoops whey
3 scoops waxi 1 scoop sugar
15g ibcaa
5g creatine
5g BA
1/2 teaspoon p-slin(this comes out on my mg scale at ~800 this stuf is sticky and packs tight so there is a lot of variability, not rocket science though)

Any sugestions are welcome

To avoid bloat, and increase fat loss, I cut this in half, and added AP pre-workout. At first AP was only 30 minutes pre workout and pre MMshake, but I've changed that to using it with a separate meal about 2 hours pre-workout. This has cut out all the bloat and fatloss is moving right along. As far as "pumps" go, they are very good on this protocol. I really don't notice any difference from using the double MMshake.
 
jacob or usp labs staff, I read the AP manual and ive read about the different timings there is for different bodytypes/metabolism types. Assuming i consider myself a carb reactive (sugar belly kind) it says to take the AP dose 30-45 mins prior to carb meal.

If i wanted to implement the monster shake protocol, would i have to time the pslin dose like that 30-45 min pre monster shake??? I wanted to try the shake as laid in the pslin pamphlet that says 75g waxy maize/ 30g protein powder plus creatine and beta alanine..

So again should i time the pslin like that pre monster shake then workout 45 mins after the workout shake ideally???

Thanks
 
Sounds great! I had a similar method named, "The Double Carb Load", that went like this:

30 minutes Pre-Meal:

1 AP

Pre-WO Meal:

80-100g carbs - 70/30% mixture of complex/simple

(workout 1 hour and 15 minutes later)

On the way to gym:

1 P-Slin
5g Creatine Mono
5g Leucine
300mg Caffeine Anyhdrous/Pre-WO supplement.

Down this, wait until you're at the gym, and begin sipping on one large Gatorade. Your muscles cells are so primed, and in such an anabolic state, that the Gatorade will continually replenish glycogen stores without the risk of an Insulin spike (due to the hormonal balance of workout). I find there is no bloat with this, and inter-set recovery is phenomenal.

As well, via the glucose transport from the Gatorade, and translocated GLUT4, Creatine absorption even in the Monohydrate form is not an issue. I usually do a 10-minute cardio warm up + stretch, which also allows the Caffeine to kick in.

The pumps are almost too much to bear, recovery is amazing, stamina is up, and strength and endurance are increased. This is not just the AP/P-Slin at work, but mostly the large amount of carbohydrates in this manner; the purpose of AP/P-Slin, is to allow your body to more efficiently use this amount of carbohydrates without a large risk of adipose storage and/or bloat.

The fact is that with this protocol, risk for adipose storage is low for several reasons - namely, the anti-lipogenic/lipolytic effects of AP/P-Slin, as well as the high utilization of glucose for substrate oxidation, due to the actions of AP-induced AMPk. Layman's terms: the body will use the high amount of glucose as efficiently as possible, without metabolizing local tissues - i.e., muscle!

Wouldn't take pslin along with the shake mixture at the same time defeat all the purpose of the supplement?? I mean, doing so would stimulate insulin secretion and i thought we were after having the effects insulin does but from pslin/ap rather than our own insulin secretion.
I think i read somewhere that was the whole reason behind taking the pslin/ap doses pre meals.

Any comments??

Thanks
 
Finally just read through this whole thread, followed the steps, did everything I am supposed to.. Now, my question is, has anybody here actually gained significant strength and weight (not fat) using this protocol? I am used to drinking a pre-workout shake (30 min before), taking my BCAA's intra, and immediately having a post-workout shake... so I wouldn't mind making da' monster shake and sipping on it pre-intra-post.. But, first I want to see if anyone has actually noticed significant gains and not just fat gains. Let a brotha' know!

P.S. I am trying to do a phatty order, but bulk p-slin is all out? any ideas on when it will be back in stock? :(
 
AP + P-slin is only $35

Invalid Link Removed


Thanks a ton.. just placed my order.
So I guess I should just break open a P-Slin and dump it in my intra-mass shake? speaking of, since they appear to be only 500mg each, I might need to break a bunch open and just take out 800mg per serving.

So, I don't know much about AP, but it looks like it comes with the P-Slin. Should I just follow the manual that comes with it on dosing? I am bulking right now BTW.
 
Finally just read through this whole thread, followed the steps, did everything I am supposed to.. Now, my question is, has anybody here actually gained significant strength and weight (not fat) using this protocol? I am used to drinking a pre-workout shake (30 min before), taking my BCAA's intra, and immediately having a post-workout shake... so I wouldn't mind making da' monster shake and sipping on it pre-intra-post.. But, first I want to see if anyone has actually noticed significant gains and not just fat gains. Let a brotha' know!

P.S. I am trying to do a phatty order, but bulk p-slin is all out? any ideas on when it will be back in stock? :(

Wouldn't take pslin along with the shake mixture at the same time defeat all the purpose of the supplement?? I mean, doing so would stimulate insulin secretion and i thought we were after having the effects insulin does but from pslin/ap rather than our own insulin secretion.
I think i read somewhere that was the whole reason behind taking the pslin/ap doses pre meals.

Any comments??

Thanks

Thanks a ton.. just placed my order.
So I guess I should just break open a P-Slin and dump it in my intra-mass shake? speaking of, since they appear to be only 500mg each, I might need to break a bunch open and just take out 800mg per serving.

So, I don't know much about AP, but it looks like it comes with the P-Slin. Should I just follow the manual that comes with it on dosing? I am bulking right now BTW.

jacob or usp labs staff, I read the AP manual and ive read about the different timings there is for different bodytypes/metabolism types. Assuming i consider myself a carb reactive (sugar belly kind) it says to take the AP dose 30-45 mins prior to carb meal.

If i wanted to implement the monster shake protocol, would i have to time the pslin dose like that 30-45 min pre monster shake??? I wanted to try the shake as laid in the pslin pamphlet that says 75g waxy maize/ 30g protein powder plus creatine and beta alanine..

So again should i time the pslin like that pre monster shake then workout 45 mins after the workout shake ideally???

Thanks


BUMP X4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Thanks a ton.. just placed my order.
So I guess I should just break open a P-Slin and dump it in my intra-mass shake? speaking of, since they appear to be only 500mg each, I might need to break a bunch open and just take out 800mg per serving.

So, I don't know much about AP, but it looks like it comes with the P-Slin. Should I just follow the manual that comes with it on dosing? I am bulking right now BTW.

You would hardly need more than a capsule of capped P-Slin for your shake. One capped P-Slin can support up to 120gr or so of complex carbohydrates.
If you have both Anabolic Pump and P-Slin, you may take the P-Slin with your pre-workout meal containing carbohydrates. Take one Anabolic Pump 15-20 minutes before two of your other carbohydrate-containing meals (30-60gr during a cut, and slightly more during bulking). On non-workout days, take one Anabolic Pump 15-20 minutes before three carb-containing meals. You could also use a capsule of P-Slin instead when any of these meals is carb-loaded.
 
can you quote again please, I could not find it.

Stair Protocol by Jacob Geissler BA Clinical Nutrition

In the past, we been brain washed into using High glycemic carbohydrates to spike insulin. I feel into this dogmatic train of thought because it was the common place approach preached in every magazine. Skinny, fat, or dilusional, the theory of insulin spiking was gospel.

Even with a degree is clinical nutrition (which does not prepare you for performance nutrition), I feel victim to the notion that without spiking insulin you are sacrificing a key component for muscle growth and recovery.

There where 2 signicant reasons why my approach has changed and evolved. Around 3 years ago, I joined AnabolicMinds to advertise our first product cAMPHIBOLIC, and the board was run by a crazy clown named Bodo that changed my philosphy on Post workout nutrition.

I gave this opioniated clown some cash for a program and followed his protocol. I was a big advocate of nutrition from the start. I was never one to push supplements before nutrition. I understood if the end users understood nutrition. He would really love my products. Once you understand how nutrition works for you individually, you can easily decipher which supplements work.

I will take this time to Thank Bobo whoes probably playing golf somewhere...I mean trying to play golf.
The huge difference from Bobo's protocol was that fat loss became much easier without injesting sugary carbohydrates Post workout...This was a big changing point in my physique. Remember Insulin is a storage hormone and when it's present fat loss is impossible (later I will try to convince most people that want to get lean not to eat every 3 hours but that is for another time).
The second huge leap in understanding insulin and dieting was when I developed (not just I but also a great mind that rather stay behind the scenes) Anabolic Pump. Again Remember when Insulin is present you cannot lose fat. Anabolic Pump allows you to eat carbohydrates in a super efficient way that requires less insulin secretion from the pancrease. The least amount of time that insulin is present in the blood system. We have a greater opportunity to lose fat while eating carbohydrates. This is beauty of Anabolic Pump.

People are stubborn and never want to change the dieting approach but you have too. The body adapts and change sparks a new cellular enviroment. Change was to be prescirbed and researched and the only way to be truly successful is by learning BASIC nutrition...Just basic nutrition and most could learn it in a few weeks.
We know Insulin is anabolic! The most anabolic substance in the world and if we can learn to manipulate it properly, we can harness the power when needed. Insulin is an inflammatory hormone and the more the pancrease secretes to deal with large sums of carbohyrates. The more likely you will become insulin resistant and run into inflammatory conditions that can later lead to pre diabetic conditions...but that are a whole other story.


instead of a huge peak in insulin by just using simple carbohydrates and fast digesting protein that leads to a subsequent fall in insulin. We are getting a Steady-state anabolic insulin response (**** that does not even spell stair..lol) by using a combonation of fast and slow releasing proteins and carbohydrates. We are getting a constant flow of Amino Acids and glucose to the muscle cells.

The reason we do not take P-Slin 15 minutes before the shake is because we WANT the pancrease to secret insulin big time and the synergy of P-Slin, Insulin and the INTENSE workout creates a super anabolic enviroment.

Now, if you are going to Pilates class and do not want to Train like a MACHINE. Please just ignore and erease everything you just read because this protocol allows you to train like an animal and recovery at an unheard of rate (especially if your supplement cycle is top notch).

The MassMonster shake is the ULTIMATE fuel to feeding the craziet workouts. Trust me if you love to grind it out in the gym, the MassMonster shake brings training enjoyment to a new level. The pump, the recovery, the strenght gains, and the intense energy will take your training to a new level.

You will be in biology thinking of the gym. You will go to sleep just to wake and train. You will be banging your girl and thinking of squats...okay, I'm lieing about the later. Results come fast with this protcol......FAST especially if you personalize the MassMonster Shake to your liking with supplements that you know work.

MassMonster Shake-Jacob Style!

The base Plus I mix in:
-Jacked (which is a stimulant that I been using for a long time that called Y-RD along with some other goodies..You can use stimulant of choice) Or Core Zap..Cannot go wrong with either but love the addition of sulbutiamine in Zap..Great formula.
-10 grams BCAAs mixed in MassMonster shake
I will take the below 30 minutes before the gym.
-2 Prime
-3 Powerfull (not for the HGH response but PowerFULL significantly increased dopamine and works in synergy with any stimulant. The combo of PowerFULL plus a stim allows you to control your muscle contractions on different level...the best Mind muscle connection guarnateed.
-1gram 50% EGCG
-20mgs of forskolin
-100mgs 5htp

Lets harnes the Power of Insulin in a way that will keep us super insulin senstive and healthy. As I age, my focus is trying to reverse the clock and keep a youthful body and mind as I age. But there is a weird misconception in the bodybuilding world that they must eat semi unhealthy and gorge on mass amounts of food (our food system is tainted) to gain muscle. Meaning we eat calorie dense foods not nutrient dense foods.

The Stair protocol is about gaining muscle, losing fat, and staying young!

Again my disclaimer, you need to learn nutrition and how your body reacts to food to modify the programs to fit your body. I will outline my routine that can be used a guide but you must come up with your blue print.

Morning Meal (currently is my preworkout meal in the stair protocol)
-Take 1 AP Wait 15 minutes and eat 20 grams of carbohydrates from raw oats, 30 grams whey protein mix of isolate, casien, and concentrate (human development technologies..Name is escaping me at the moment).
-1 grape fruit
-Mutli vitamin-3grams fishoil-2 Prime

Why use anabolic Pump with such a low dose of Carbohydrates? I want to become carbohydrate efficient and such a low amount of carboydrates, the pancrease probably only has to spit or drizzle some insulin out. The insulin response probably close to non existant with AP and 20-30grams of carbohydrates.

This is a teaser meal to boost metabolism and get ready for the Stair shake and proceeding workout.

The MassMOnster Shake II

The base of the shake is;

-800mgs bulk Plsin
-60grams SuperCarb by Avant labs(carb content can also change and agian start low and go high but remember our goal is to Make the pancrease shot out Insulin during this time)
-60grams of Dextrose, Maltodextrin, or Waxy maize starch
-20 grams of Whey Hydroslates (but you can use isolates and remember you can adjust ratios to your liking...always best to start low than go high).
-10 grams caisen (I just use 1.5 scoop of my HDT protein which has casien and isolate and jsut add one scoop of hydroslate)
-6 grams beta Alanine

Part two Coming monday

Jacob...I was referring to the piece of this post I bolded in large font...thx
 
Bump!

I have some pslin left and am going to be making a massmonster shake.
I know Jacob commented on not liking starches like the waxy maize, etc w/ pslin/ap, and using things like maltodextrose or avant supercarb instead.

Can anyone speak to the rationale behind this? Or is starch ok?

Thanks!
 
Bump!

I have some pslin left and am going to be making a massmonster shake.
I know Jacob commented on not liking starches like the waxy maize, etc w/ pslin/ap, and using things like maltodextrose or avant supercarb instead.

Can anyone speak to the rationale behind this? Or is starch ok?

Thanks!
I don't know the rationale, but I agree with waxy maize sucking! Never worked good for me, but dose increase my blood sugar fast.
 
i like to use ground up oats. can be a pain sometimes but i like oats for a carb source.
 
Nice! Did you do a mixture of oats/sugars? Any feedback on what was best if using the AIR protocol and drinking pre-intra-post?
 
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