BPS Dermacrine

InItForGainz

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Does Dermacrine require a full PCT including full SERM dosages or would an OTC Natty PCT like
Viron+Rebirth+Letrone suffice?

I can't seem to find an actual answer to this so thought I'd ask here seeing as it seems/seemed to be quite popular.

Reps for replies.
 
Nac

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You heard of Dr Michael Scally? If his name/reputation carries any weight for you, he claims exogenous dhea will not negatively impact the hpta.

He has studies and whatnot to back himself, PM me if you want links.

Based on my own research, Id say a SERM is not warranted.
 

InItForGainz

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Cheers man. Just looked into him and his research.
Just wondering if anybody has ever run this solo and what PCT they used, if any.
 

InItForGainz

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Werent you going on trt?
I am yeah.
I'm asking about the Dermacrine because my friend asked me about it as he's considering getting some and knew I'd used it in the past. I didn't run it solo though, so I did a full pharma grade PCT with all of the proper supports.
 
Nac

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I am yeah.
I'm asking about the Dermacrine because my friend asked me about it as he's considering getting some and knew I'd used it in the past. I didn't run it solo though, so I did a full pharma grade PCT with all of the proper supports.
Ah, true. How useful it will prove to be will obviously depend on his particular circumstances. In most "normal" scenarios, I doubt its going to really do a hell of alot, as it seems to work best in an environment of deficiency of some sort (as opposed to saturating the body in some manner and providing benefit that way).

Whats his goal with using it?
 

bosskardo

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Noone kill me if I'm wrong but I remember one OL product formulators saying no serm needed unless used in high dose and or for a long time.
 

bosskardo

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Does Dermacrine require a full PCT including full SERM dosages or would an OTC Natty PCT like
Viron+Rebirth+Letrone suffice?

I can't seem to find an actual answer to this so thought I'd ask here seeing as it seems/seemed to be quite popular.

Reps for replies.
I thought a bit more on it. BPS would perhaps be nice to correct me if I am incorrect. Dermacrine is slightly supressive but when used for 1 month, SERM shouldn't be needed. Rebirth is probably the closest to SERM without being a SERM, so I think it would be OK with OTC PCT (but Virom imo isn't the best, if you don't use a SERM then should go for a good PCT test booster to be safe).
Letrone might not be needed. Dermacrine shouldn't cause E problems.

edit: even 2 months of Dermacrine shouldn't be a problem if you haveRebirth and a top notch otc PCT. But I wouldn't go that long at least the first time if SERM isn't handy. You might react a little different to it.
 

InItForGainz

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Ah, true. How useful it will prove to be will obviously depend on his particular circumstances. In most "normal" scenarios, I doubt its going to really do a hell of alot, as it seems to work best in an environment of deficiency of some sort (as opposed to saturating the body in some manner and providing benefit that way).

Whats his goal with using it?
He's DHEA levels are a bit low. Not low enough for his doctor to prescribe him something but he wants to prevent any further decline. He's been having some brain fog, joint pain, lack of concentration, lack of libido and just wants a boost tbf... Everything that Dermacrine is supposed to support/help with.
 

InItForGainz

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I thought a bit more on it. BPS would perhaps be nice to correct me if I am incorrect. Dermacrine is slightly supressive but when used for 1 month, SERM shouldn't be needed. Rebirth is probably the closest to SERM without being a SERM, so I think it would be OK with OTC PCT (but Virom imo isn't the best, if you don't use a SERM then should go for a good PCT test booster to be safe).
Letrone might not be needed. Dermacrine shouldn't cause E problems.

edit: even 2 months of Dermacrine shouldn't be a problem if you haveRebirth and a top notch otc PCT. But I wouldn't go that long at least the first time if SERM isn't handy. You might react a little different to it.
He's got no issues or reservations about taking SERM's if he needed too, but they can present their own problems so would rather not go overkill if he doesn't have too.
I suppose a low dose of about 3-4 pumps per day for a month or two shouldn't cause much suppression or E related sides.

And I have a box full of Pharma Grade AI's and SERM's that I'd dip into for him if issues do arise. But again, I'd rather him not have too take them.
 
Nac

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He's DHEA levels are a bit low. Not low enough for his doctor to prescribe him something but he wants to prevent any further decline. He's been having some brain fog, joint pain, lack of concentration, lack of libido and just wants a boost tbf... Everything that Dermacrine is supposed to support/help with.
Most of the data on dhea supplementation in men shows it will have No Significant impact on TT or E2 levels; it is unlikely it will be impacting LH or FSH either. Interestingly, the data on women is much more clear: dhea supplementation has Significant impact on TT levels but no impact on LH, FSH, or lipids.

The only data Ive seen on dhea supplementation Significantly impacting men is a case study of two 70 year olds who ingested 400mg.

As per the LEF site, it would seem that physiological doses of dhea that restore normal serum levels will not impact TT nor the hpta; it is only, possibly, supraphysiological doses that might.

He's got no issues or reservations about taking SERM's if he needed too, but they can present their own problems so would rather not go overkill if he doesn't have too.
I suppose a low dose of about 3-4 pumps per day for a month or two shouldn't cause much suppression or E related sides.

And I have a box full of Pharma Grade AI's and SERM's that I'd dip into for him if issues do arise. But again, I'd rather him not have too take them.
The way I see it he has pretty much three post-dhea options:

1) use a SERM. The impact of this will largely depend on his pre-SERM hormonal environment. Generally, the only real "negative" I could see going this route is a level, likely E2, being raised to some undesirable degree, SERM-dependant. I personally find the idea of a SERM being "overkill" an unwarranted knee-jerk reaction. To be absolutely clear: claiming something to be "overkill" also presumes some kind of action is warranted. If a SERM is overkill, what is Goldilocks "just right"?

2) use an OTC test booster. This will tend to have minimal impact on any LH or FSH activity; if a SERM is overkill, a test booster is underkill if hpta function is your concern. If youre restoring physiological levels of dhea, how exactly is an OTC test booster in any way relevant post-treatment?

3) do nothing. Or, spend the $$ on pre- and post-treatment bloods that demonstrate impact on DHEA/S, TT, E2, LH, FSH, lipids. Thatd be my own personal approach.
 
Chefdeez

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If you can find longer ones, post'em! :thumbsup:
Ha no nothing against you posting that I just found that odd. I've had pretty decent experiences with dermacrine; nothing amazing. I find topical magnesium oil just as good for increasing DHEA levels amongst other benefits. Can't believe more ppl don't use it.
 

InItForGainz

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Most of the data on dhea supplementation in men shows it will have No Significant impact on TT or E2 levels; it is unlikely it will be impacting LH or FSH either. Interestingly, the data on women is much more clear: dhea supplementation has Significant impact on TT levels but no impact on LH, FSH, or lipids.

The only data Ive seen on dhea supplementation Significantly impacting men is a case study of two 70 year olds who ingested 400mg.

As per the LEF site, it would seem that physiological doses of dhea that restore normal serum levels will not impact TT nor the hpta; it is only, possibly, supraphysiological doses that might.



The way I see it he has pretty much three post-dhea options:

1) use a SERM. The impact of this will largely depend on his pre-SERM hormonal environment. Generally, the only real "negative" I could see going this route is a level, likely E2, being raised to some undesirable degree, SERM-dependant. I personally find the idea of a SERM being "overkill" an unwarranted knee-jerk reaction. To be absolutely clear: claiming something to be "overkill" also presumes some kind of action is warranted. If a SERM is overkill, what is Goldilocks "just right"?

2) use an OTC test booster. This will tend to have minimal impact on any LH or FSH activity; if a SERM is overkill, a test booster is underkill if hpta function is your concern. If youre restoring physiological levels of dhea, how exactly is an OTC test booster in any way relevant post-treatment?

3) do nothing. Or, spend the $$ on pre- and post-treatment bloods that demonstrate impact on DHEA/S, TT, E2, LH, FSH, lipids. Thatd be my own personal approach.
So if you were me would you tell him to go for it to see how it goes with 3-4 pumps per day or advise against it in a pro's vs con's argument?
 
Nac

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So if you were me would you tell him to go for it to see how it goes with 3-4 pumps per day or advise against it in a pro's vs con's argument?
If it were me Id be doing the bloods and acting from there.

In lieu of bloods, I cant see any detrimental impact in running physiological doses of dhea if its not really "warranted"; worst it will do is put him out of pocket with no percievable impact. But in that scenario Id then be wondering what is causing my symptoms if not a dhea deficiency...and getting bloods for further enlightenment. But then my dhea/preg levels would be affected by the Dermacrine Id just finished.

If serious about correcting symptoms, Id be getting a comprehensive blood panel done before jumping on anything.
 

InItForGainz

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If it were me Id be doing the bloods and acting from there.

In lieu of bloods, I cant see any detrimental impact in running physiological doses of dhea if its not really "warranted"; worst it will do is put him out of pocket with no percievable impact. But in that scenario Id then be wondering what is causing my symptoms if not a dhea deficiency...and getting bloods for further enlightenment. But then my dhea/preg levels would be affected by the Dermacrine Id just finished.

If serious about correcting symptoms, Id be getting a comprehensive blood panel done before jumping on anything.
He's had bloods done, hence how he knows about the slight DHEA and Cortisol deficiency. I think he requested extra bloods but his GP said no, and over here if your GP says no then you aint getting it.
 
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Nac

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He's had bloods done, hence how he knows about the slight DHEA and Cortisol deficiency. I think he requested extra bloods but his GP said no, and over here if your GP says no then you aint getting it.
Yeah I gathered that.

Without a broader range of readings he's pretty much limited to trial and error. What an unfortunate predicament.
 

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