Boron in Viron?
- Thread starter Fcs81
- Start date
Smont
Legend
Post up a picture of the label. I definitely have to assume it's 3 mg, because I think at upwards of 20mg boron becomes toxic and dangerous.
GQdaLEGEND
Legend
what ever it is i would assume its either 200mg yielding 20mg OR 100mg yielding 10mg.
Ive done 20mg .. not a heavy dose .. actually a studied dose .. as to which label is right? unsure if there was a v2 out or not
Ive done 20mg .. not a heavy dose .. actually a studied dose .. as to which label is right? unsure if there was a v2 out or not
Smont
Legend
I could be wrong but I think you guys are all mistaken, 20 mg is the upper tolerable range. At that dose is where it becomes toxic and dangerous. Every thing I've ever seen on boron for the purposes we use it is 3-6mg 2x per dayInvalid Link RemovedInvalid Link Removed
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Smont
Legend
Most of them are
GQdaLEGEND
Legend
maybe getting mixed up with boron vs boron citrate
Kronic
Well-known member
maybe, but my boron supp is "3mg boron (as boron citrate)"
GQdaLEGEND
Legend
I take it back looks like I was doing 200mg which equates to 10mg active boron ( split morning night ).. I remember the studies were done at 11mg where it showed stronger bones, better test results
GQdaLEGEND
Legend
2 types of boron - these labels lists the % and where its coming from.
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Kronic
Well-known member
it probably used to be 10mg is my guess. you could ask SSS support if theirs is actually 10mg
Resolve10
Well-known member
There is a thread all about Boron somewhere else (too lazy to link).
This is what happens when you have companies who don't label properly. The CEL and NOW ones above shows how it should be done so as to not have any confusion.
As a general rule when a company doesn't list extract % or label things well it is best to assume you are probably getting the lowest possible in the situation (to save costs), but I'd also say if you can't trust or figure out a label probably better to just use something that does make sense.
I'd just assume it is 20mg Boron Citrate and therefore at 10% so 2mg active Boron (if you feel it is worth making assumptions).
This is what happens when you have companies who don't label properly. The CEL and NOW ones above shows how it should be done so as to not have any confusion.
As a general rule when a company doesn't list extract % or label things well it is best to assume you are probably getting the lowest possible in the situation (to save costs), but I'd also say if you can't trust or figure out a label probably better to just use something that does make sense.
I'd just assume it is 20mg Boron Citrate and therefore at 10% so 2mg active Boron (if you feel it is worth making assumptions).
Smont
Legend
Maybe we can find a company rep, but if that's 20 active milligrams then I wouldn't touch it.
But I highly doubt it's 20 active milligrams if I had to take a guess it's 20 mg supplying "2 mg" of active boron
Smont
Legend
GQdaLEGEND
Legend
found it >>Invalid Link Removed
going thru that thread .. its pretty funny lol
@Fcs81 OP hope all this helps
Fcs81
New member
Lol thanks bro. Looks like viron has 10mg of active boron per cap. Which makes sense because if its as good as Brundel says, if it was only 3mg for 2 caps,it wouldn't have much effect. And 40mg for two caps seems overkill.
Smont
Legend
Sooo, at 2 caps a day it's giving you 20 mg of active boron???
Because 20 mg is the dose where it becomes toxic. Doesn't seem like a good idea. Would that being said I use viron back in the day when it first came out more than once and I never had a problem with it.
I've actually never had a problem with any of their products
Because 20 mg is the dose where it becomes toxic. Doesn't seem like a good idea. Would that being said I use viron back in the day when it first came out more than once and I never had a problem with it.
I've actually never had a problem with any of their products
Fcs81
New member
Fcs81
New member
Lol if thats true were all screwed because most people who take boron take 2 caps. But watch the doctors video. Its very informative. Interesting information about Jamaica soil and Israel.
Smont
Legend
I'm not interested in those videos if they contradict all the legit backed up medical information. You're also missing the point of what I'm saying. I did not say viron contains a toxic dose, I think there's some confusion on the dose that it actually contains or something like that. Also 6 mg two times a day is the dose that's going to raise your free testosterone and do all the other things that it would be environ for so I don't see any reason why they would put more than that in the product when there's no added benefit. Maybe brundel will come in here and clear this up because I'm a little confused myself but all the legit medical data that I've ever seen is 20 mg flat out
Fcs81
New member
The video is medical backed information
Smont
Legend
You didn't post any links or videos to begin with, if you did they're not showing up on my screenThe video is medical backed information
Fcs81
New member
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Fcs81
New member
Seriously man check it out. Great information.
Fcs81
New member
Im not going against what the world health organization says, but 20mg sounds pretty low to me to be toxic. Especially when in certain countries its easy to get that from food and water supply.
Fcs81
New member
You can even skim through it. Most of what he talks about he puts on the white board so you can read it alao.
Smont
Legend
I didn't watch the video yet as I'm bout to eat dinner but I did find this.
1 cap of viron contains 10mg of elemental boron.
Now does anyone know the difference between elemental boron and boron citrate?
Boron citrate is the one that keeps coming up with 20 mg being the toxicity upper limit.
The confusion could be in the conversion between these two
1 cap of viron contains 10mg of elemental boron.
Now does anyone know the difference between elemental boron and boron citrate?
Boron citrate is the one that keeps coming up with 20 mg being the toxicity upper limit.
The confusion could be in the conversion between these two
Smont
Legend
This is where the confusion is, I gotta go back through the video again but I don't believe there talking about citrate so we gotta do conversion.
You said especially when certain countries is easy to get that from food and the water supply but no it isn't, the average person only consumes 0.5-1.5mg per day. I think your confusing different measures. The numbers you were hearing only contain a very small amount of boron citrate. 100mg might only contain 5 active milligrams of citrate
Smont
Legend
If there was a country where they were getting an average of 20 mg or more then the large majority of that country's men would be having fertility issues, their whole population would be very sick as well. They might be eating 20mg and supplementing with 100-200 but it's not 20,100 or 200 of active boron citrate
Smont
Legend
At the end of the day who really cares lol. I don't care enough to keep searching about boron. (Tho I am gonna skim through the video again)
I know the world health organization's numbers are accurate, and I know brundles product is not going to kill anybody because he doesn't have a toxic dose in there, we're missing somewhere but it's not important enough to me to spend any more time on other then skimming back through that video
I know the world health organization's numbers are accurate, and I know brundles product is not going to kill anybody because he doesn't have a toxic dose in there, we're missing somewhere but it's not important enough to me to spend any more time on other then skimming back through that video
Beau
Well-known member
I believe the ratio of boron citrate to boron is 20 to 1. In other words, I believe 100mg of boron citrate yieds 5 mg of boron.
Smont
Legend
No, its not that simple, there's an extract percentage that determines that, so one product may have 100 mg that yields 5 mg but another product might have 100 mg that only yields 1 mg. The product in question (viron) contains 20mg that yields 10mg of elemental boron, which I would have to assume elemental boron is just supposed to be boron.
I changed my mind, please no one tag me back in here again, if I hear myself say the word boron or I type it one more time I'm going to shoot myself in the head lol
Smont
Legend
I have to correct myself because I'm sure it will come up at some point. And my OCD is killing me
The toxic dose for boron citrate was not 20mg, that's the toxic dose for boric acid (which is still boron)
But this doesn't solve anything. There's like 20 different ways they refer to boron and the mg representation is never the actual amount of mg.
Knowing this it still "looks" like this product viron contains a toxic "which obviously we know it is NOT toxic", dose if there 20mg of citrate gives 10 mg elemental boron (elemental boron dose should represent the same mg as boric acid) I know either I'm making a mistake somewhere still or there is another conversion.
We know this product has 20mg of citrate=10mg elemental boron
But is there another conversion to boric acid?
Say 20mg boron citrate=10mg of active boron=??mg of boric acid..... In this scenario it would make sense that the lecture we watched has numbers so different then the world health organization and all the toxicology reports.
So now I'm gonna do what I should have done a long time ago and I'm not sure why I didn't think of it.
@brundel can you please give us a quick explanation of whatever it is we're missing here. We know your product does not contain a toxic dose of boron, but we also see tons of stuff saying 20 is toxic and dangerous (but even tho they say boron, they mean boric acid)
Why am I so confused here lol
The toxic dose for boron citrate was not 20mg, that's the toxic dose for boric acid (which is still boron)
But this doesn't solve anything. There's like 20 different ways they refer to boron and the mg representation is never the actual amount of mg.
Knowing this it still "looks" like this product viron contains a toxic "which obviously we know it is NOT toxic", dose if there 20mg of citrate gives 10 mg elemental boron (elemental boron dose should represent the same mg as boric acid) I know either I'm making a mistake somewhere still or there is another conversion.
We know this product has 20mg of citrate=10mg elemental boron
But is there another conversion to boric acid?
Say 20mg boron citrate=10mg of active boron=??mg of boric acid..... In this scenario it would make sense that the lecture we watched has numbers so different then the world health organization and all the toxicology reports.
So now I'm gonna do what I should have done a long time ago and I'm not sure why I didn't think of it.
@brundel can you please give us a quick explanation of whatever it is we're missing here. We know your product does not contain a toxic dose of boron, but we also see tons of stuff saying 20 is toxic and dangerous (but even tho they say boron, they mean boric acid)
Why am I so confused here lol
Resolve10
Well-known member
Dude it’s not that complicated. It’s explained in that last thread about boron. It’s how chemistry works.
When referring to Boron in studies it’s usually going to be referring to the elemental amount (ie 3mg for this effect 10mg for that 20mg is upper limit etc). The same with magnesium (when people recommend 400mg it’s the elemental amount they are referring to).
But you can’t just put that in a pill you won’t just “find” Boron or Magnesium or Calcium or these minerals in that state they’ll be bonded to something (boron citrate, magnesium glycinate, calcium carbonate, etc.). Cutting here to not get off track…
The reason you are confused is because of companies with shitty labeling. Boron citrate will always be at 10% that’s just how the science works. 20mg boron citrate will never give you 10mg of boron. (edit: not 10% but 5%)
This is why this industry can be trash at times and why people are often so confused so don’t take this negatively!
Hope that helps.
Hope I don’t have to deal with a Boron thread every year.
When referring to Boron in studies it’s usually going to be referring to the elemental amount (ie 3mg for this effect 10mg for that 20mg is upper limit etc). The same with magnesium (when people recommend 400mg it’s the elemental amount they are referring to).
But you can’t just put that in a pill you won’t just “find” Boron or Magnesium or Calcium or these minerals in that state they’ll be bonded to something (boron citrate, magnesium glycinate, calcium carbonate, etc.). Cutting here to not get off track…
The reason you are confused is because of companies with shitty labeling. Boron citrate will always be at 10% that’s just how the science works. 20mg boron citrate will never give you 10mg of boron. (edit: not 10% but 5%)
This is why this industry can be trash at times and why people are often so confused so don’t take this negatively!
Hope that helps.
Hope I don’t have to deal with a Boron thread every year.
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Resolve10
Well-known member
Also I think it’s partly you mixing terminology. Upper tolerable limit doesn’t just mean immediate toxic issues and can depend on the ingredient in question as well. The acute toxicity with Boron was decently high so overdosing was pretty rare (if I recall I’m not some expert on boron 
).
).
Smont
Legend
No I understand that part, to be perfectly honest, I don't really care about any of this. But I stuck my nose in where I didn't need to. Then I mixed up some words and confused a few ppl and in return ended up confusing myself.Also I think it’s partly you mixing terminology. Upper tolerable limit doesn’t just mean immediate toxic issues and can depend on the ingredient in question as well. The acute toxicity with Boron was decently high so overdosing was pretty rare (if I recall I’m not some expert on boron
I almost let it go, but last night Adam Sandler came to me in a dream in the form of Billy Madison. He started talking about chlorophyll and then a giant penguin started following me around and said I need to figure out boron or I won't pass High school and inherit the company.
So here I am
Fcs81
New member
Im not concerned with viron being toxic, because I highly doubt that's the case. The reason I have questions is because I want to know if I am getting the effective dose of boron to optimize testosterone levels. If I need to take some extra boron with the viron its not a big deal.
Fcs81
New member
So it would be 200mg of boron citrate to get 10mg of boron?Dude it’s not that complicated. It’s explained in that last thread about boron. It’s how chemistry works.
When referring to Boron in studies it’s usually going to be referring to the elemental amount (ie 3mg for this effect 10mg for that 20mg is upper limit etc). The same with magnesium (when people recommend 400mg it’s the elemental amount they are referring to).
But you can’t just put that in a pill you won’t just “find” Boron or Magnesium or Calcium or these minerals in that state they’ll be bonded to something (boron citrate, magnesium glycinate, calcium carbonate, etc.). Cutting here to not get off track…
The reason you are confused is because of companies with shitty labeling. Boron citrate will always be at 10% that’s just how the science works. 20mg boron citrate will never give you 10mg of boron.
This is why this industry can be trash at times and why people are often so confused so don’t take this negatively!
Hope that helps.
Hope I don’t have to deal with a Boron thread every year.