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TheUnlikelyToad
Well-known member
If you realize what it is, there is ample amounts of info/feedback on tha boards.
lifter2005
Member
TheUnlikelyToad said:
Sorry, but Im a little confused. Could you point me in the right direction of the info/feedback. I too, am interested.
lifter2005
Member
Are we talking about the same compound as ergopharms 1ad and 4ad? If so, nevermind. I have taken those compounds with great results, except for third and final cycle when my arms broke out with rashes.
Siznoyton
Active member
Courtesy of Big Cat (quiet down people, he wrote some good stuff)
1,4-andro (1,4-androstadienedione)
Target Hormone: Boldenone (1-dihydrotestosterone)
Molecular name of target hormone: 1,4-androstadiene-3-one,17b-ol
Target conversion: moderate to high, estimated just over 10 %
Conversion enzyme: 17-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (17HSD)
DHT conversion: some conversion
Estrogenic effects: aromatisation of the prohormone
Definitely more promising than the 5-AA. I found it has great resemblance to the 1AD in the fact that it has no estrogen aromatisation possibility, assures almost all gains as dry weight and the double bond at the one position which ensures greater oral activity without extra liver toxicity. However, Not here, nor on the 5AA by the way, was there any kind of study attached showing the efficacy of either product. It is touted as a precursor to boldenone, another popular steroid and pre-contest hardening agent. In this case there is more truth in it. Only that boldenone has a hydrogen and oxygen bonded and the 1,4-andro has a double bonded oxygen atom. Boldenone becomes methandrostenolone in its methylated form, also known as Dianabol, possibly the most popular oral steroid in the world, ever.
If this was a diol version this could without a doubt surpass any prohormone ever created, including 1AD. But it's a dione version with inherent flaws. I'm also not convinced a diol version will ever come out. Unlike 1AD which was created in a lab as a dione, then perfected to a diol, 1,4-andro isn't made by human hands but extracted from the feces of a cow. Cows are treated with progesterone for various reasons, and under that circumstance they produce this in their bowels it seems¹. This is the result of that isolation. It's also the topic of a hot debate of whether or not this is legal. In any case, 1,4-andro can be considered the non-5-alpha reduced version of 1AD and a potent anabolic precursor. However, it definitely leaves a lot of stacking options. Because of the 1-double bond it has a high oral efficacy, meaning low doses can exert an effect. So in a stack with another prohormone it may be able to rival the effect of a mild steroid, but again you'd have to be able to make it cost-effective for it to rival 1AD.
One thing I particularly like about 1,4-andro is that despite the fact that it can stimulate the androgen receptors and aromatize, it does both in such a small amount that side-effects are nearly non-existant. Combined with high oral efficacy it can easily match Nor-diol, perhaps even beat it, in the safety department. It can also be a handy supplement for endurance athletes since it stimulates Erythropoesis, the manufacture of red blood cells in the bone marrow and releasing them in large quantities in the blood. Red blood cells carry oxygen and this increases the capacity for strenuous and continual activity with a lessened risk of cramps or musclular failure. This is also the result of the hormone EPO (erythropoetin). Boldenone acts by increasing EPO release from the kidneys. Much like doing a height-stage. EPO is also a heavily abused drug amongst runners and cyclists. Another potent effect it may have is that despite slightly aromatizing itself, it may act as aromatase inhibitor for other products in several forms. One study showed this to be true for 1,4-androstadienedione² whereas another shows the same for several metabolites³. That makes 1,4-andro perfect for limiting estrogenic side-effects in a bulking stack as well.
In my opinion this shows a lot of promise, but I'd like to see something as far as a head to head study goes. However, if 1,4-andro tickles your fancy, again ordering from Impact Nutrition, who has the patent, is and will remain an expensive affair. Higher power to the rescue once again: Ganabolin, 60 caps, 50 mg per cap for only $23.99. In this aspect 1AD is cheaper by 2-3 bucks per 10 grams and (probably) more effective.
1,4-andro (1,4-androstadienedione)
Target Hormone: Boldenone (1-dihydrotestosterone)
Molecular name of target hormone: 1,4-androstadiene-3-one,17b-ol
Target conversion: moderate to high, estimated just over 10 %
Conversion enzyme: 17-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (17HSD)
DHT conversion: some conversion
Estrogenic effects: aromatisation of the prohormone
Definitely more promising than the 5-AA. I found it has great resemblance to the 1AD in the fact that it has no estrogen aromatisation possibility, assures almost all gains as dry weight and the double bond at the one position which ensures greater oral activity without extra liver toxicity. However, Not here, nor on the 5AA by the way, was there any kind of study attached showing the efficacy of either product. It is touted as a precursor to boldenone, another popular steroid and pre-contest hardening agent. In this case there is more truth in it. Only that boldenone has a hydrogen and oxygen bonded and the 1,4-andro has a double bonded oxygen atom. Boldenone becomes methandrostenolone in its methylated form, also known as Dianabol, possibly the most popular oral steroid in the world, ever.
If this was a diol version this could without a doubt surpass any prohormone ever created, including 1AD. But it's a dione version with inherent flaws. I'm also not convinced a diol version will ever come out. Unlike 1AD which was created in a lab as a dione, then perfected to a diol, 1,4-andro isn't made by human hands but extracted from the feces of a cow. Cows are treated with progesterone for various reasons, and under that circumstance they produce this in their bowels it seems¹. This is the result of that isolation. It's also the topic of a hot debate of whether or not this is legal. In any case, 1,4-andro can be considered the non-5-alpha reduced version of 1AD and a potent anabolic precursor. However, it definitely leaves a lot of stacking options. Because of the 1-double bond it has a high oral efficacy, meaning low doses can exert an effect. So in a stack with another prohormone it may be able to rival the effect of a mild steroid, but again you'd have to be able to make it cost-effective for it to rival 1AD.
One thing I particularly like about 1,4-andro is that despite the fact that it can stimulate the androgen receptors and aromatize, it does both in such a small amount that side-effects are nearly non-existant. Combined with high oral efficacy it can easily match Nor-diol, perhaps even beat it, in the safety department. It can also be a handy supplement for endurance athletes since it stimulates Erythropoesis, the manufacture of red blood cells in the bone marrow and releasing them in large quantities in the blood. Red blood cells carry oxygen and this increases the capacity for strenuous and continual activity with a lessened risk of cramps or musclular failure. This is also the result of the hormone EPO (erythropoetin). Boldenone acts by increasing EPO release from the kidneys. Much like doing a height-stage. EPO is also a heavily abused drug amongst runners and cyclists. Another potent effect it may have is that despite slightly aromatizing itself, it may act as aromatase inhibitor for other products in several forms. One study showed this to be true for 1,4-androstadienedione² whereas another shows the same for several metabolites³. That makes 1,4-andro perfect for limiting estrogenic side-effects in a bulking stack as well.
In my opinion this shows a lot of promise, but I'd like to see something as far as a head to head study goes. However, if 1,4-andro tickles your fancy, again ordering from Impact Nutrition, who has the patent, is and will remain an expensive affair. Higher power to the rescue once again: Ganabolin, 60 caps, 50 mg per cap for only $23.99. In this aspect 1AD is cheaper by 2-3 bucks per 10 grams and (probably) more effective.
Siznoyton
Active member
It is highly oral bioavailable (40%+), so its one of the few prohormones that doesn't need to be used transdermal.
There seems to be no difference between the -diol and -dione versions, even though there seems there should be. This has been confirmed by others, as well as yours truly. Also, some speculated the synthesis for the -diol was so difficult that just about anyone producing it was just selling the -dione.
Hmmm...what else...supposed to be very good fro aerobic activity, as it raises your red blood cell count. No drastic, but I noticed it lowered my voice!
There seems to be no difference between the -diol and -dione versions, even though there seems there should be. This has been confirmed by others, as well as yours truly. Also, some speculated the synthesis for the -diol was so difficult that just about anyone producing it was just selling the -dione.
Hmmm...what else...supposed to be very good fro aerobic activity, as it raises your red blood cell count. No drastic, but I noticed it lowered my voice!
lifter2005
Member
Its unfortunate this stuff is so expensive at the present time (over $50 at Island), i would defenitely give this a try.
B5150
Legend
I believe it is 45% orally active and of that, it converts to Bold at about 15%.
1g/d = ~475mg/w Bold
1.2g/d = ~575mg/w Bold
1.4g/d = ~660mg/w Bold
1.6g/d = ~750mg/w Bold
Now if you were fortunate enough to have a bulk supply of powder it would be very effective. Yes, we have seen that 1-1.2g/d is fairly effective. If someone were to use 1.6g/d I'm guessing they would find out soon enough how much better it is at very high doses.
1g/d = ~475mg/w Bold
1.2g/d = ~575mg/w Bold
1.4g/d = ~660mg/w Bold
1.6g/d = ~750mg/w Bold
Now if you were fortunate enough to have a bulk supply of powder it would be very effective. Yes, we have seen that 1-1.2g/d is fairly effective. If someone were to use 1.6g/d I'm guessing they would find out soon enough how much better it is at very high doses.
B5150
Legend
Well lets do the math together:dagecko said:
1.4g x 45% absorption = .63mg x 15% conversion = 94.5mg active x 7 = 661.5mg/w.
300mg x .45 = 135mg x 15 = 20mg x 7 = 140mg/w active
Seriously, unless you are a virgin, lightweight or respond well to placebo there is not much value to 300-600mg/d. JMO.
Enigma76
Active member
B5150 said:
What about the fact that some of these PH had instrinsic anabolic properties of their own? I remember the thought was that 1-AD had some of its own inherent anabolic properties because its effects could not be explained fully by its conversion to 1-T (discrepancy between the rate of converted 1-T and the effects vs actual 1-T effects at the same dose).
I might be wrong in my example but I do remember that this was theorized alot. So the dosages might not necessarily need to be worked to correspond to the amount of boldenone that is converted...
dagecko
Registered User
So are there any orals that this can be stacked with? Like say PP, Halo, or SD? I was reading that it can convert to estro so maybe running with something estro suppressive like SD may be viable?
This is interesting as it opens another alternative to stacking ph's. If stacking with other orals is viable anyone have any suggestions as to what a generally (i say generally in that it would be viable for most people) effective cycle might be?
This is interesting as it opens another alternative to stacking ph's. If stacking with other orals is viable anyone have any suggestions as to what a generally (i say generally in that it would be viable for most people) effective cycle might be?
anabolicrhino
Well-known member
dagecko said:
I have run three 6 week cycles of 1,4 AD + M4OHN. The results were excellent very lean and clean with a quick recovery time.
It should stack well with SD or a tren-like clone.
I used it at 600mg twice a day
anabolicrhino
Well-known member
joebo said:
I believe I paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $2.50/gram circa 2003. It wasn't a financial investment. I was looking for an alternative to 4-AD, which always bloated me. Today, I would prefer Halo in terms of available chemistry or MTST for a non-methylated test-like stack companion.
Mass_69
Well-known member
Interesting Info on Boldione detection:
Invalid Link Removed
Characterization of boldione and its metabolites in human urine by liquid chromatography/electrospray ionization mass spectrometry and gas chromatography/mass spectrometry.Kim Y, Jun M, Lee W.
Doping Control Center, Korea Institute of Science and Technology, P.O. Box 131, Cheongryang, Seoul, Korea. [email protected]
Boldione (1,4-androstadiene-3,17-dione) is a direct precursor (prohormone) to the anabolic steroid boldenone (1,4-androstadiene-17beta-ol-3-one). It is advertised as a highly anabolic/androgenic compound promoting muscularity, enhancing strength and overall physical performance, and is available on the Internet and in health stores. This work was undertaken to determine and characterize boldione and its metabolites in human urine, using both liquid chromatography with electrospray ionization mass spectrometry and gas chromatography with mass spectrometry and derivatization. Boldione and its three metabolites were detected in dosed human urine after dosing a healthy volunteer with 100 mg boldione. The excretion studies showed that boldione and its metabolites were detectable in urine for 48 h after oral administration, with maximum excretion rates after 1.8 and 3.6 h (boldenone case). The amounts of boldione and boldenone excreted in urine from this 100 mg dose were 34.45 and 15.95 mg, respectively. (c) 2005 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd
PMID: 16308875 [PubMed - in process]
Invalid Link Removed
Characterization of boldione and its metabolites in human urine by liquid chromatography/electrospray ionization mass spectrometry and gas chromatography/mass spectrometry.Kim Y, Jun M, Lee W.
Doping Control Center, Korea Institute of Science and Technology, P.O. Box 131, Cheongryang, Seoul, Korea. [email protected]
Boldione (1,4-androstadiene-3,17-dione) is a direct precursor (prohormone) to the anabolic steroid boldenone (1,4-androstadiene-17beta-ol-3-one). It is advertised as a highly anabolic/androgenic compound promoting muscularity, enhancing strength and overall physical performance, and is available on the Internet and in health stores. This work was undertaken to determine and characterize boldione and its metabolites in human urine, using both liquid chromatography with electrospray ionization mass spectrometry and gas chromatography with mass spectrometry and derivatization. Boldione and its three metabolites were detected in dosed human urine after dosing a healthy volunteer with 100 mg boldione. The excretion studies showed that boldione and its metabolites were detectable in urine for 48 h after oral administration, with maximum excretion rates after 1.8 and 3.6 h (boldenone case). The amounts of boldione and boldenone excreted in urine from this 100 mg dose were 34.45 and 15.95 mg, respectively. (c) 2005 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd
PMID: 16308875 [PubMed - in process]