BLR Letrone & Rebirth - let's get those hormones flowing :D (+Bloods)

conkertheking

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I'm supposed to be cutting, but I have half a mind to postpone it until the end of the run :D
 
ELROCK

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I would definitely attribute the increase in hunger to the increased Ghrelin release caused by Letrone. This is a common effect noted by many other users. Part of which attributes to the anabolic properties of Letrone.
I agree. I had the same increase in appetite from Letrone. I welcomed it and packed on a few pounds.
 

conkertheking

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Day Eleven

Still far more randy than average. Reckon this will stay with me for the duration of the run - and hopefully beyond, if my HPTA gets ramped up enough :D

Decided to start cutting soon. Perhaps it's because I'm more aware of my weight given the increased hunger, but I definitely have too much fat at the moment particularly around the waist and chin. Interestingly, a drop in E2 is generally associated with abdominal fat loss, and I'm not sure to what extent estrogen receptors alpha and beta contribute to that, but despite the temptation to eat more than usual I reckon this might actually be a good time to do it. If the run is successful, I may consider a run of Exotherm afterwards since it's specifically geared towards cutting.

I've calculated my RMR at ~2206 at the moment (6"2', 220lbs) but I suspect it may be a bit higher than this as I have a fair bit of muscle at the moment - this is evidenced by the fact that years ago before I got into bodybuilding I weighed exactly the same, 220lbs, and I was horribly fat. Right now I can still wear L clothes and have them be a little loose, whereas back then I looked ridiculous even in XL :D I'm seriously wondering if a lot of the softness / flabbiness may be caused by water retention, especially since while I was using Formestane I got loads of comments on how much slimmer I looked.

Of course, I could also look at this a lot more cynically and honestly, and factor in the ridiculous post-college summer of drinking and fast food I've just lived through ;)

I need some advice on this though. Both for myself and for the scientific record I want my blood results in a few weeks to be as accurate as possible regarding the effectiveness of Letrone & Rebirth, and I don't want to do anything which runs the risk of distorting that. With this in mind, would it be a better idea for me to postpone any changes in diet, exercise frequency etc until after I've got my post bloods done at the end of the run? I'm willing to sacrifice a few more weeks of looking bloated for the sake of science ;) Want to lose at least a little flab by Christmas for personal reasons but two months is still plenty of time, somehow my body is capable of fluctuating rather rapidly weight-wise and I'm actually always more confident than a lot of people I know about being able to cut relatively well on short notice.

Thoughts? Am I better off leaving my lifestyle, calorie intake, exercise level etc as-is for the duration of the run in order to ensure accurate results, or does this matter less than I'm thinking it might?
 

conkertheking

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Day Twelve

Sorry, only posting this now and will probably do days thirteen and fourteen tomorrow night as I'm going mad tonight ;)

Workout was a bit of a mess yesterday, still have this annoying left shoulder impingement which meant that even though I could finally get the 30s up (yay!!!) I had to stop after two or three reps due to the shoulder irritation. I then switched to the barbell press, but in my eagerness to kick its ass, I did one too many reps and then couldn't actually get the bar back up and into the rack, so I ended up having to roll it down my body while slowly sitting up and trying not to either kill myself with it or lose a leg from dropping it. :D Gym was empty at the time so I was on my own with that, and it seriously sapped my energy for further exercises, especially those involving shoulders and triceps.

Curls are still driving me crazy due to outside forearm pain. I am now considering dropping flat curls altogether until Wednesday week (so 1.5 weeks) so see if they relieve a little. I may do hammer curls instead, although personally I don't like these as much because the DB severely restricts ROM (where it touches your shoulder at the top of the movement on one hand, and where it touches the bench near the bottom on the other, if one is doing preachers)

Workout was severely limited due to timing, I got delayed a bunch of times yesterday in other places so I only had an hour or so in the gym, and I stopped for a while to recuperate after the disastrous first barbell set. Will probably have the same issue on Monday as it's a bank holiday and I'll have been out the night before, but will endeavour to get at least something done there.

Regardless, here are the stats:

Incline 6 DBs: 30k*3. Shoulder prevented further lifts.
Incine BB press: 62.5kg (20kg + 21.25kg*2) 10 / 8 / 5 - the 10 on the first set was the set I couldn't get the bar up again after the last rep. Also, the last set, 5, was limited by paranoia that the same might happen again, so I feel I could probably have done better. I actually have "n1" written beside the first set which corresponds to a note at the bottom of the page, which I'll reprint below for the craic ;)

Preachers DB curls: 22kg / 8R, 8L / - stopped after one set on each arm because of the feckin' tendons. To the powerball we go for the next few days.

Arnold Press: 20kg / 6 / 6 / 4 - ascribing the drop in performance to tiredness following the BB screwup.

Pulldown: 230 / 12 / 12 / 12 - very happy with this. Will go up to 235 on this exercise next time, but I have memories of pulling back muscles from trying to increase this lift too ambitiously even with top-of-target sets, so I won't rush it too much. Strict increments of 5lbs only from now on, I think.

V-bar triceps cable pushdown: 41.25kg / 12 / 5. 38.75kg / 5. - Not sure what's going on here really. The reason I lowered the weight on set 3 was because I felt like I was throwing my shoulders into it a bit and therefore cheating, but with stricter form on the lower weight I could still only get 5. I know my triceps are stronger than this, so I'm again ascribing this lapse to the BB disaster.

Had to leave after this without doing lateral or rear delt raises, or any replacement chest exercises. Oh well. Here's hoping I don't make a balls of anything on Monday.

I've also had to change my post workout shake from Universal Torrent to Phd Recovery 2:1. I didn't want to change any variables during this run which might cloud whether or not Letrone or Rebirth was changing things up, but it couldn't be helped as every supp store in the city is sold out of Torrent at the moment. Still good stuff though, still ~28g protein and 5g creatine so shouldn't make too much of a difference.

Was up half the night due to the Animal Pump pre-workout and was torn between extreme sexual frustration and a strong desire not to fap until tomorrow (as childish as this may seem, I like to abstain from *anything* sexual the day before a night out since the motivation blocking effects of the prolactin surge seem to haunt me for a full day sometimes and it would mean not even bothering chatting anyone up in the club) :p :p :p I definitely felt much, much more of an urge than usual though which again could be placebo but I'm starting to seriously doubt it. Ended up downloading far more porn than I could ever actually get around to watching "to have for later" - not exactly the kind of productivity I'm aiming for with this regime, but I suppose it's still productivity nonetheless :D

As I said in my previous update, I'm starting to get irritable, IE I get pissed off a little easier than usual. Again not sure if this is an effect, but I welcome it in a way as I tend to tolerate a lot of BS I shouldn't ;) Anyone else notice any effects like this? It could just as easily be the animal pump, not really sure.

For the craic, here's the footnote I wrote to myself after almost dropping the barbell on myself:

"Note: Right, you overly ambitious f*cker. Tried to go for 11, couldn't get the weight back onto the rack, ended up having to roll it off your body. Incredibly uncomfortable and dangerous! Take it f*ckin' easy from now on will ya."
 
GreekTheBrick

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Day Twelve

Sorry, only posting this now and will probably do days thirteen and fourteen tomorrow night as I'm going mad tonight ;)

Workout was a bit of a mess yesterday, still have this annoying left shoulder impingement which meant that even though I could finally get the 30s up (yay!!!) I had to stop after two or three reps due to the shoulder irritation. I then switched to the barbell press, but in my eagerness to kick its ass, I did one too many reps and then couldn't actually get the bar back up and into the rack, so I ended up having to roll it down my body while slowly sitting up and trying not to either kill myself with it or lose a leg from dropping it. :D Gym was empty at the time so I was on my own with that, and it seriously sapped my energy for further exercises, especially those involving shoulders and triceps.

Curls are still driving me crazy due to outside forearm pain. I am now considering dropping flat curls altogether until Wednesday week (so 1.5 weeks) so see if they relieve a little. I may do hammer curls instead, although personally I don't like these as much because the DB severely restricts ROM (where it touches your shoulder at the top of the movement on one hand, and where it touches the bench near the bottom on the other, if one is doing preachers)

Workout was severely limited due to timing, I got delayed a bunch of times yesterday in other places so I only had an hour or so in the gym, and I stopped for a while to recuperate after the disastrous first barbell set. Will probably have the same issue on Monday as it's a bank holiday and I'll have been out the night before, but will endeavour to get at least something done there.

Regardless, here are the stats:

Incline 6 DBs: 30k*3. Shoulder prevented further lifts.
Incine BB press: 62.5kg (20kg + 21.25kg*2) 10 / 8 / 5 - the 10 on the first set was the set I couldn't get the bar up again after the last rep. Also, the last set, 5, was limited by paranoia that the same might happen again, so I feel I could probably have done better. I actually have "n1" written beside the first set which corresponds to a note at the bottom of the page, which I'll reprint below for the craic ;)

Preachers DB curls: 22kg / 8R, 8L / - stopped after one set on each arm because of the feckin' tendons. To the powerball we go for the next few days.

Arnold Press: 20kg / 6 / 6 / 4 - ascribing the drop in performance to tiredness following the BB screwup.

Pulldown: 230 / 12 / 12 / 12 - very happy with this. Will go up to 235 on this exercise next time, but I have memories of pulling back muscles from trying to increase this lift too ambitiously even with top-of-target sets, so I won't rush it too much. Strict increments of 5lbs only from now on, I think.

V-bar triceps cable pushdown: 41.25kg / 12 / 5. 38.75kg / 5. - Not sure what's going on here really. The reason I lowered the weight on set 3 was because I felt like I was throwing my shoulders into it a bit and therefore cheating, but with stricter form on the lower weight I could still only get 5. I know my triceps are stronger than this, so I'm again ascribing this lapse to the BB disaster.

Had to leave after this without doing lateral or rear delt raises, or any replacement chest exercises. Oh well. Here's hoping I don't make a balls of anything on Monday.

I've also had to change my post workout shake from Universal Torrent to Phd Recovery 2:1. I didn't want to change any variables during this run which might cloud whether or not Letrone or Rebirth was changing things up, but it couldn't be helped as every supp store in the city is sold out of Torrent at the moment. Still good stuff though, still ~28g protein and 5g creatine so shouldn't make too much of a difference.

Was up half the night due to the Animal Pump pre-workout and was torn between extreme sexual frustration and a strong desire not to fap until tomorrow (as childish as this may seem, I like to abstain from *anything* sexual the day before a night out since the motivation blocking effects of the prolactin surge seem to haunt me for a full day sometimes and it would mean not even bothering chatting anyone up in the club) :p :p :p I definitely felt much, much more of an urge than usual though which again could be placebo but I'm starting to seriously doubt it. Ended up downloading far more porn than I could ever actually get around to watching "to have for later" - not exactly the kind of productivity I'm aiming for with this regime, but I suppose it's still productivity nonetheless :D

As I said in my previous update, I'm starting to get irritable, IE I get pissed off a little easier than usual. Again not sure if this is an effect, but I welcome it in a way as I tend to tolerate a lot of BS I shouldn't ;) Anyone else notice any effects like this? It could just as easily be the animal pump, not really sure.

For the craic, here's the footnote I wrote to myself after almost dropping the barbell on myself:

"Note: Right, you overly ambitious f*cker. Tried to go for 11, couldn't get the weight back onto the rack, ended up having to roll it off your body. Incredibly uncomfortable and dangerous! Take it f*ckin' easy from now on will ya."
That detail!! You should take it easy, you dont want the shoulder to completely fail during a press. Listen to your body and stay safe bro
 

conkertheking

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That detail!! You should take it easy, you dont want the shoulder to completely fail during a press. Listen to your body and stay safe bro
Yeah last time I assumed it was just a once-off annoyance but I may have pulled it, what I'll do next time is try one set of DB presses and if that doesn't work out for shoulder related reasons, I'll just skip the bench press altogether for a few days. Maybe Arnold press as well but that doesn't seem to aggravate it for some reason, which is strange...
 
vujade

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Day Eleven

Thoughts? Am I better off leaving my lifestyle, calorie intake, exercise level etc as-is for the duration of the run in order to ensure
accurate results, or does this matter less than I'm thinking it might?

i would keep diet fairly consistent during PCT. Cutting during PCT will spike Cortisol levels
and could effect your test levels as well to a certain extent.
 

conkertheking

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i would keep diet fairly consistent during PCT. Cutting during PCT will spike Cortisol levels
and could effect your test levels as well to a certain extent.
Thought as much. Won't cut then but I will try to improve my ratio of decent food to popcorn and other sh!te ;)

Will do a full update tonight, apologies for the lack of weekend updates but it was every bit as messy as I predicted :D
 

conkertheking

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Sincerest apologies for the lack of updates, been incredibly busy over the last few days, mainly with fapping. ;) Will do a four day update tomorrow including today's workout results. tl;dr version, it's all good :D
 
vujade

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looking forward to it bro..
 

conkertheking

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Days 13-16

Very sorry about the delay, been quite busy over the last few days and kept forgetting to post! This update covers Saturday - Tuesday, will do today (Day 17) either tonight or tomorrow morning and then get back to normal daily updates :D

Day Thirteen

Saturday was a bit messy due to drink :D What's worth noting is that I have a serious crush on this woman I see all the time in the same clubs I go to at the weekends and apparently the massive libido boost I've been getting doesn't over come the mental block I have about actually making a move. Pathetic I know lads, will try to do better next weekend :p I'm actually starting to think that getting drunk negates the confidence boost I've been experiencing during this log, which is weird since drink is generally used to boost confidence - trouble is when I'm drunk I'm content to arse around with my mates on the dance floor instead of actually talking to her :D Regardless, I totally bottled the opportunity and feel like an eejit for it now. Especially since I found out after I got home that she sent me snapchats asking if I was going to the same club that night. Oh well. ;)

Day Fourteen

This was a long weekend in Ireland so we all went out again. What's worth noting about Sunday night (and this ties in with Saturday since I was considerably less drunk) is that a friend and myself left the party for a bit to get food, and after I struck up conversations with two girls and got a Facebook add from one of them he commented on how much more 'alpha' I had seemed over the last few weeks than usual. Kinda cool if friends are noticing a change in me, particularly since I haven't bothered talking much about my supp taking as I'm the only lifter among my crew and I'd assume it would bore the sh!te out of them :D Made up in my mind for my stupidity the previous night and I do think it's interesting to note that I apparently perform much better confidence wise when I'm less drunk than more. Again this is all anecdotal and could be placebo but it's worth keeping in mind for others. Also keep in mind though that I'm an appalling lightweight so my definition of drinking a lot is about four bottles of beer, once I go beyond that I tend to start looking for a couch to fall asleep on ;)

Day Fifteen

Monday morning I was completely zombified so I got to the gym very near closing time, but I still managed to get a decent workout in before they threw me out :p

Incline DB press: 30kg / once again couldn't get the DBs up. This is getting old.
Incline BB press: 62.5kg (21.25x2 + 20kg bar) 8 / 9 / 7 - very happy with this, particularly after last week's BB dropping fiasco. I'm still being cautious about not trying to push for one last rep on this just in case the same happens again though - need to convince some friends to join my gym so I can have a regular spot and see just how hard I can really push myself on this one :D

Lat pulldown: 235lbs / 12 / 11 / 10 - finally found a weight which seems challenging on this, first time in ages I didn't get 12/12/12. Felt amazing, bach is still aching now two days later, and in addition I've dropped curls temporarily until next week due to forearm tendons flaring up, so this is probably the best exercise my biceps will get until then. I do pulldowns with palms facing eachother and with a close grip, our pulldown machine has a second movement where you can pull the handles apart and out to the side during the movement - is this worth doing? I've always felt it would turn the movement more into a rear delt exercise than lats, but I could be wrong.

Arnold press: 20kg / 7 / 7 / 5 - finding this one more challenging since learning of proper form and slowing it down. I also have a note in my workout report pointing out that the hangover was starting to bite at this point which might explain why I gave up on the last set so easily. Sadly I'm meeting some friends tonight again so it's likely enough that I'll be hungover again tomorrow >_> Do many Irish lads do logs on this forum? :D

Lateral raise: 10kg(2) / 9 / 9 / 4 - note here to say the last set ended abruptly when they turned the lights off in the gym to close for the night :D

Not a bad workout, but we'll see how it goes tomorrow when hopefully I'll get there much earlier. They closed early on Monday because of the bank holiday which was one reason the workout was cut short.

Day Sixteen

Absolutely wrecked yesterday. Not sure if tired from the gym or two day hangover ;) Libido waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay up, really noticeable yesterday to the point at which I'm starting to discount the possibility of this being just placebo, although I really don't want to say that and get everyone's hopes up until I have the bloods back.

Also, see Spectre. Drop what you're doing, find a cinema near you and go there right now, I guarantee that it's more worthwhile than whatever else you're supposed to be doing :p

As I say, will log today either tonight, or tomorrow in combination with tomorrow's log. Then after that I'll get back to a regular daily update.

As always any questions just shoot!
 

conkertheking

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Day Seventeen

Didn't bother doing a standalone update for Wednesday (Day 17) because there wasn't really all that much to report. Started writing two new songs and went out for drinks with some friends - whether a perceived uptick in creativity is down to hormonal changes, I honestly have no idea. I do have a theory that it may be related to confidence, in that if test is increasing, I'm less inhibited and therefore more likely to just go with new ideas instead of questioning them. Pure conjecture though and hard to know for sure.

Had a sexy dream for the first time in a while :D I should actually say that I only ever seem to dream about women I like (honestly can't remember a recent dream with any other theme) but I rarely remember them. I do remember when I started taking Formestane I felt my dreams had become more frequent, and Prolactrone gave a brief stint where my dreams went from simply hooking up with women I like, to hooking up after saving my town from a villainous nuclear plot. While dressed as batman. Yet another reason for people to give L-DOPA supps a shot at some stage :D

Day Eighteen

Slept for a loooooooong ass time today despite getting to bed at around 1AM, woke up and fell back to sleep multiple times this morning. Didn't have college today or anything time-sensitive to do, so just went with it - honestly reckon I may have slept for more than twelve hours, all put together. I doubt this is supp related though and suspect that it's probably far more likely to be drink related ;) On the bright side, no hangover!

Workout wasn't great but wasn't terrible. Brought Lateral Raises back into my routine for the first time in a while, will add Rear Delt Raises on Sunday. I have yet another tendon issue (can't help wondering why my tendons and joints, as opposed to muscles and bones, are so constantly susceptible to inflammation!) on the back of my hands when doing palms down lifts, such that sometimes I have to stop doing them because of hand pain even if my shoulders are perfectly capable. Stinks. So lateral raises weren't as good as I know they could have been.

Regardless:

Incline 6 DBs: 30kg - got the weights up this time without much difficulty, which is pretty cool. Ultimately abandoned this exercise though as the left shoulder is still nagging at me and I don't want to make it worse. Will stick to BBs for a few workouts while it recovers, as somehow they don't affect it at all (it seems to be the inward motion of the DBs when arcing them together that aggravates the shoulder).

Incline BB press: 62.5kg / 8 / 7 / 6 - still being overly cautious (have an "oc" written next to the first set to remind me) because of the barbell droppage of last week :p still all within strength range and solid enough for a post-boozing day ;)

Lat pulldown: 235lbs / 12 / 9 / 11 - really happy with this. Perfect weight that's nearly doable but still quite challenging and doesn't just give me automatic 12 / 12 / 12 like it used to on lighter weights. Will keep this up and intend to progress to 240 once all three sets are +10 for one or two workouts in a row.

Arnold press: 20kg / 7 / 8 / 6 - as I said last time, this has become a lot more challenging since I learned of the proper form and slower movement. May need to decrease the weight for a short time if I don't move beyond strength range soon.

Lateral raise: 10kg / 11 / 9 / - stopped after two. Have "rhp" written beside each set which stands for "right hand pain" as described above. The weight, as with all DB lifts, obviously refers to each hand rather than overall, so in reality it's a 20kg life altogether. May reduce weights to see if that helps, but I don't think this hand issue is muscle strength related - my gran and my dad (her son) both have the same issue and it really seems to be related to how we're put together. My thumb doesn't actually fully oppose and is much more comfortable at a right angle to my fingers - such that when I used to use smith machines instead of free weights for benching, I'd use a thumbless (thumb behind the bar with fingers) grip rather than making an "o" around the bar with my thumb. Obviously with heavy free weights this is no longer an option, but it does indicate that I'm dealing with something congenital rather than an injury. Bummer. >_<

Triceps v bar pushdown: 38.75kg / 12 / 12 / 12 - this is good, but I do have a note to myself here which says "too much shoulder involvement". Not really sure how to keep the shoulders out of a pushdown short of reducing the weight, it's always annoying when supporting muscles are stronger than the target muscle and you have to fight to keep the target isolated but I'll experiment a bit on Sunday and do my best.

Went home at this stage as the post-drinking haze was starting to kick in and I needed to chill out :D

Day Nineteen

Hardly did anything today at all. Got woken up in the middle of the night by fireworks after ~2hrs of sleep and couldn't get back to sleep, reckon it was the caffeine in the Animal Pump or the sudden awakening from the fireworks but I had a massive adrenaline pump and it lasted for several hours until it was actually time to get up. Possibly coincidentally or possibly consequently, I now have a slight cold - have sinus pressure and a very slight soreness in the throat. Stayed in tonight as Halloween is an absolutely massive event in Ireland and I definitely don't want to be sick so I can't go out on Saturday night :D

Nothing much to report except for one thing, and yet again this could be placebo or coincidence but who knows: I got my iPhone's battery replaced back in February at a local tech repair shop. Recently, the capacity has dropped to a third of what it originally had been (1430 mAh originally, 500 now), and having confirmed that it's only had 220 charge cycles, I deduced that it was almost certainly defective. When I brought it into the shop, the first guy I talked to tried his absolute hardest to turn this around on me, telling me I'd been charging it too often, too little, at the wrong times, for the wrong durations etc - and that this is what had wrecked its capacity.
Now normally I really don't like confrontation and can be pathetically passive-aggressive, but this time I was absolutely adamant, explained everything I knew about iPhone batteries and how they work, and essentially how the excuses he was giving me were complete and total bullsh!t. Eventually he switched tack to telling me that he'd get the engineers to have a look but it would take an hour - was I really bothered hanging around for an hour? - and very obviously trying to talk me into just giving up on it. Stayed rooted to the spot until he'd labelled the phone and taken it away to be examined.

An hour later when I came back there was a different employee, and she explained that when they had opened the phone, (a) they couldn't find their own labels on the battery, implying that it hadn't come from them and "was I sure I hadn't got it tampered with by any other company since then", and secondly that there was a huge dent in it, which indicated that it had been subject to abuse, and that the inside of the phone "was in terrible condition". This was all complete BS, and essentially even though they tried several times to convince me to just drop it, I stood my ground until finally they caved and agreed to replace it. When they removed the old one, it was "bowed" (curved all the way down) which indicates overheating during charging, a classic sign of a defective battery. So I got a free replacement and weirdly they actually seemed to warm to me for standing my ground, telling me "you seem like a nice guy" and what not :D

Is this hormone related - who knows? I can tell you that it's both incredibly un-Irish and incredibly un-me. We have a reputation alongside our British neighbours for being too polite to follow through on complaints and demand what we're entitled to, and I in particular as an individual have always been a bit of a pushover wherein I've tended to bottle up my frustration in such situations only to explode in rage later when I'm alone. If this is a "new me" brought on by better hormones, me likey. :D

Will probably log days 20-21 together as Halloween is an absolutely huge thing in Ireland and I expect to be bollocksed (three guesses what that means >_>) from an early stage tomorrow ;)
I'm coming across as such an alco-douche in this log :D What if I told you that I don't actually booze nearly as much as any of my friends? ;)
 

kisaj

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Lol, don't sweat it. Some of us love to get after it in everything we do. Something to realize is how well Letrone is actually working because you are enjoying yourself on several levels and your e2 isn't being affected, obviously. Drinking, as we all know, increases estrogen and affects everything from libido to overall mood. You are clearly doing OK from your posts and there is something to be said about that.
 

conkertheking

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Lol, don't sweat it. Some of us love to get after it in everything we do. Something to realize is how well Letrone is actually working because you are enjoying yourself on several levels and your e2 isn't being affected, obviously. Drinking, as we all know, increases estrogen and affects everything from libido to overall mood. You are clearly doing OK from your posts and there is something to be said about that.
Fair points! Yeah like for instance Wednesday night was the night I went out and got fairly hammered, Thursday morning I woke up after only 5/6 hours of sleep (tends to happen when I've been drinking, I suspect it's my body demanding a drink of water) and yet even in that state my mood was great and I was wandering around with a morning tree as opposed to mere morning wood. So again, could be placebo but it flies in the face of the general morning-after experience where booze is concerned. :D

I'm willing to make sacrifices for science though ;) One of my best friends just invited me to her birthday party the night before my scheduled Day 29 blood test, so unless they'll let me reschedule it for Day 28 instead I'm committing to staying stone cold sober during the party and getting an early night so as not to tarnish the results - despite the fact that the bar&restaurant we're going to is a Mexican joint infamous for its free tequila and "you're allowed to dance on the tables as long as you accept full responsibility for what happens if you fall off" policy ;)

I actually find being sober among a crowd of drunk folk kind of amusing sometimes because you're totally aware of how slowly everyone's talking and how any supposed "DMCs" (deep meaningful conversations) are actually usually a bunch of complete arse ;) So it'll be a good night regardless!
 

kisaj

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Man, I feel we'd get in trouble if there were ever a chance meet up. Haha
 

conkertheking

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Apologis for the lack of updates - been really down for the last few days but it's highly unlikely to be hormone related. Sh!t happened on Saturday night, as it occasionally does - nothing I'll bother logging here, just pointless drama with bad feelings amplified by drink. Halloween and New Years are two nights which I'm always a little wary of - they're so messy in Ireland that you can either have a great night or a crappy one. St Patrick's Day is another, but at least on that day we all tend to have the good sense to go to house parties instead :D

Some good came out of the weekend though!

Day Twenty

This was Halloween. As I said earlier, messy night. Primarily in my case because I made a cardinal mistake - had a family dinner which I didn't want to leave when everyone was pre-drinking, sowent into town too late when everyone was already pissed, clubs were already full, and crucially mates were all too hammered to coherently message eachother. So we all ended up in different, random clubs and obviously found it harder to find eachother because of all the costumes :D

An old wound got re-opened with an unexpected text message from a woman from the past. Never a good idea to read those while drunk, even worse to respond. I'll just leave it at that. ;)

On the bright side: Got myself another gig for Friday night :) Again, seizing opportunities really isn't something I'm known for so maybe this is the Letrone/Rebirth combo, we'll find out soon enough! Also, two guys dressed as leprechauns had a fight in a McDonalds at the end of the night. Funniest thing I've seen in ages :D Finally, despite the messiness of the night and the amount of drink, I was still randy as f*ck the next morning - so that's something >_>

Day Twenty One

Gymmed on Sunday to clear my head following the ridiculousness of Saturday night. Yet another close-to-closing time workout unfortunately (which Wednesday WON'T be, I assure you) so a little rushed, but felt pretty good all the same!

Incline BB press: 62.5kg (20kg bar + 21.25kg*2) / 10 / 9 / 7 - Pushed myself a bit harder on this one and think I'm getting over the fright I gave myself last week dropping the bar. 7 isn't great but it's still within my strength range - as soon as I manage to get 12 on at least one set I'm upping the weight by 2.5.

Pulldown: 235lbs / 12 / 12 / 12 - so much for this being a challenge ;) Will increase to 240 on Wednesday to see if this was just a fluke.

Arnold press: 20kg / 6 / 7 / 5 - not great at all. Not sure why I'm not progressing on this one - will consider dropping the weight temporarily if this continues.

V-bar pushdown: 38.75kg / 10 / 11 - this one is getting a lot better, but I had to quit early as the gym was closing.

Lateral raise: 10kg / 9 / 7 - same as above, dropped the last set due to time constraints. Right hand still doesn't like this exercise at all. Will powerball the crap out of it between now and Wednesday to see if that helps!

Day Twenty Two

Did absolutely nothing today except practise for the gig. Very tired, probably a combination of the weekend and the workout. On to tomorrow! :D
Did head to the recording of a political debate in my town which was very interesting. Still reckon the country is f*cked either way though!

On another note, I'm starting to get just a little forlorn that this log is almost over. I'm really loving how this stuff makes me feel - regardless of what results I get, I reckon by now that I've probably established that there are some definite psychological effects. Three weeks of elevated mood is too much to explain on placebo alone. Now, a HPTA restart is supposed to get the system back to working alone, via its own feedback loop - so all going well, many of these effects should stay with me after the end of the run :D If not, I can always do another one, possibly with Exotherm instead of Letrone when I start my cut.
 
Jebrook

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Apologis for the lack of updates - been really down for the last few days but it's highly unlikely to be hormone related. Sh!t happened on Saturday night, as it occasionally does - nothing I'll bother logging here, just pointless drama with bad feelings amplified by drink. Halloween and New Years are two nights which I'm always a little wary of - they're so messy in Ireland that you can either have a great night or a crappy one. St Patrick's Day is another, but at least on that day we all tend to have the good sense to go to house parties instead :D

Some good came out of the weekend though!

Day Twenty

This was Halloween. As I said earlier, messy night. Primarily in my case because I made a cardinal mistake - had a family dinner which I didn't want to leave when everyone was pre-drinking, sowent into town too late when everyone was already pissed, clubs were already full, and crucially mates were all too hammered to coherently message eachother. So we all ended up in different, random clubs and obviously found it harder to find eachother because of all the costumes :D

An old wound got re-opened with an unexpected text message from a woman from the past. Never a good idea to read those while drunk, even worse to respond. I'll just leave it at that. ;)

On the bright side: Got myself another gig for Friday night :) Again, seizing opportunities really isn't something I'm known for so maybe this is the Letrone/Rebirth combo, we'll find out soon enough! Also, two guys dressed as leprechauns had a fight in a McDonalds at the end of the night. Funniest thing I've seen in ages :D Finally, despite the messiness of the night and the amount of drink, I was still randy as f*ck the next morning - so that's something >_>

Day Twenty One

Gymmed on Sunday to clear my head following the ridiculousness of Saturday night. Yet another close-to-closing time workout unfortunately (which Wednesday WON'T be, I assure you) so a little rushed, but felt pretty good all the same!

Incline BB press: 62.5kg (20kg bar + 21.25kg*2) / 10 / 9 / 7 - Pushed myself a bit harder on this one and think I'm getting over the fright I gave myself last week dropping the bar. 7 isn't great but it's still within my strength range - as soon as I manage to get 12 on at least one set I'm upping the weight by 2.5.

Pulldown: 235lbs / 12 / 12 / 12 - so much for this being a challenge ;) Will increase to 240 on Wednesday to see if this was just a fluke.

Arnold press: 20kg / 6 / 7 / 5 - not great at all. Not sure why I'm not progressing on this one - will consider dropping the weight temporarily if this continues.

V-bar pushdown: 38.75kg / 10 / 11 - this one is getting a lot better, but I had to quit early as the gym was closing.

Lateral raise: 10kg / 9 / 7 - same as above, dropped the last set due to time constraints. Right hand still doesn't like this exercise at all. Will powerball the crap out of it between now and Wednesday to see if that helps!

Day Twenty Two

Did absolutely nothing today except practise for the gig. Very tired, probably a combination of the weekend and the workout. On to tomorrow! :D
Did head to the recording of a political debate in my town which was very interesting. Still reckon the country is f*cked either way though!

On another note, I'm starting to get just a little forlorn that this log is almost over. I'm really loving how this stuff makes me feel - regardless of what results I get, I reckon by now that I've probably established that there are some definite psychological effects. Three weeks of elevated mood is too much to explain on placebo alone. Now, a HPTA restart is supposed to get the system back to working alone, via its own feedback loop - so all going well, many of these effects should stay with me after the end of the run :D If not, I can always do another one, possibly with Exotherm instead of Letrone when I start my cut.
Two drunk ass Leprechauns fighting in Ireland. That's classic. Only thing better would have been if it was St. Patty's day. Lol. Ima have to come party with you Irish boys one day. Sounds like you guys know how to get down. Great update.
 

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I'll write up a proper log of Wednesday including workout results in the morning, but I feel I should post this before it slips out of my mind: Mood and libido seem to have taken a serious hit over the last couple of days despite my not changing anything log-wise. Feeling lethargic, unmotivated, more pessimistic than usual, and the intensity of orgasm has diminished significantly just over the last couple of days. This could be related to having had a relatively crappy weekend, but I can't help thinking that it feels quite similar to how I felt towards the end of my Formestane run - and by that stage, I had dropped E2 to lower than the lab range for the first time in my life. So this could, and I stress *could* suggest that Letrone has finally managed to knock my E2 too low. I'm experiencing some joint pain as well and coincidentally I ran out of Glucosamine yesterday morning and haven't had a chance to replenish it, so that could be another signal - although that could just as easily be related to workout induced tiredness (although as I've pointed out I'm not training legs at the moment due to injury and right now it's both of my thighs near the knee, and both calves sort of on the front where they curve towards the foot which are aching like f*ck)

I'm not going to change or tamper with anything at this stage. Bloods on Tuesday, if I'm starting to experience side effects I'm willing to endure them for a few more days in the name of science :D It's worth noting that if Letrone is as powerful as Brundel reckons it is, then a two caps per day dosage is probably best designed for a heavy AAS cycle and not just a standalone restart run with a SERM.

We'll know for sure next week, just thought I'd point these things out because one of the problems with logging mood-related issues is the amnesia brought on by a change in mood. IE, and I'm sure many of you have experienced this with other supps etc, if I go to bed feeling lethargic and restless but I wake up tomorrow feeling epic, I'm not going to be able to write as clearly about what I'm feeling now. It's amazingly difficult to describe one phase of mood when you're currently in a different one, I find.
 

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I'll write up a proper log of Wednesday including workout results in the morning, but I feel I should post this before it slips out of my mind: Mood and libido seem to have taken a serious hit over the last couple of days despite my not changing anything log-wise. Feeling lethargic, unmotivated, more pessimistic than usual, and the intensity of orgasm has diminished significantly just over the last couple of days. This could be related to having had a relatively crappy weekend, but I can't help thinking that it feels quite similar to how I felt towards the end of my Formestane run - and by that stage, I had dropped E2 to lower than the lab range for the first time in my life. So this could, and I stress *could* suggest that Letrone has finally managed to knock my E2 too low. I'm experiencing some joint pain as well and coincidentally I ran out of Glucosamine yesterday morning and haven't had a chance to replenish it, so that could be another signal - although that could just as easily be related to workout induced tiredness (although as I've pointed out I'm not training legs at the moment due to injury and right now it's both of my thighs near the knee, and both calves sort of on the front where they curve towards the foot which are aching like f*ck)

I'm not going to change or tamper with anything at this stage. Bloods on Tuesday, if I'm starting to experience side effects I'm willing to endure them for a few more days in the name of science :D It's worth noting that if Letrone is as powerful as Brundel reckons it is, then a two caps per day dosage is probably best designed for a heavy AAS cycle and not just a standalone restart run with a SERM.

We'll know for sure next week, just thought I'd point these things out because one of the problems with logging mood-related issues is the amnesia brought on by a change in mood. IE, and I'm sure many of you have experienced this with other supps etc, if I go to bed feeling lethargic and restless but I wake up tomorrow feeling epic, I'm not going to be able to write as clearly about what I'm feeling now. It's amazingly difficult to describe one phase of mood when you're currently in a different one, I find.
Whenever my estrogen or cortisol gets too low I feel this way. If it is E2 you need to lower the dose of the letrone. Oh and when my e2 gets low I feel sad and depressed as well. I know the feeling
 

conkertheking

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Whenever my estrogen or cortisol gets too low I feel this way. If it is E2 you need to lower the dose of the letrone. Oh and when my e2 gets low I feel sad and depressed as well. I know the feeling
Well we'll find out on Tuesday as I say - I'm not going to deviate from my dosage or anything now as we're less than a week before bloods and don't want to muddy the water at all for that.
 

conkertheking

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Again apologies for the lack of updates, had another gig Friday night so was busy getting ready for it, and was gymming and partying yesterday, but will log the whole thing now :D Can hardly believe there are only two more days, I'm seriously going to miss this stuff. Here's hoping the mood and confidence effects last after the log is finished, if the HPTA restart has proved successful - otherwise I'll wait a month and start another run in time for Christmas :D

Can't remember what I got up to on Tuesday o_O If it comes back to me I'll post it :D

Day Twenty Four

Wednesday was another workout day. Went reasonably well.

Incline DB press: 30kg -- I'm finally at a stage where I can get the dumbbells up comfortably, but for some reason the DB press is aggravating my left shoulder while the BB press does not. Going to stay away from DBs for a week or two and if that doesn't fix it, I may reluctantly give up all shoulder involved movements for two weeks to see if whatever's wrong with it will fix itself.

Incline BB press: 62.5kg / 10 / 10 / 8 - This is getting better, very happy with it. May be able to increase the weight shortly.

Pulldown: 240lbs / 12 / 11 / 12 - This is challenging me again, having increased from 235 to 240 lbs. Still probably needs some fine-tuning, but I reckon I've at least found the right ball park.

Arnold press: 20kg / 7 / 7 / 6 - this is still stubbornly hovering in the strength range of 6-8. Starting to feel it should have increased by now. May consider lowering the weights soon if it doesn't change or progress.

Preacher DB curls: 20kg / 10R, 10L / - again, tendons started hurting during the lift. This is getting old.

Triceps V bar pushdown: 38.75kg / 12 / 12 / 9 - this is properly challenging, and feels great. Definitely seeing some serious growth in my triceps at the moment, so hopefully this will translate to improved strength on the bigger overhead lifts.

Lateral raise: 10kg / 9 / 9 / 8 - note here to say that my hands still hurt during this. Will be temporarily dropping it if I end up doing a full shoulder rest next week.

Not the worst workout, but still a handful of annoying minor injuries and aches which are making them a little unpleasant. I wonder if the shoulder joint issue to the left could be AI related? I'd certainly prefer that to having some kind of chronic injury there :p

Days Twenty Five and Twenty Six

Rolling these two into one since it felt like one long day. Had the gig coming up on Friday so practised a good bit on Thursday and didn't get that much sleep. Libido was back up through the roof, so whatever hit it was feeling probably wasn't related to the cycle. Gig on Friday was fun, smaller crowd than usual but sweet venue! On Friday in particular, libido really was through the roof. Literally. All day. Was actually quite astonishing. Started writing some random erotica for fun :D

Day Twenty Seven

Saturday continued the above libido trend. Did another workout as well, which is logged accordingly:

Incline DB press: 30kg / 6 - as I said for the previous day, I can now get the weights up on this one when I try. But the left shoulder is too annoying to do the lift. It's not a sharp or serious pain, but it basically feels like the moving parts of my left shoulder don't "fit together". When I press upward and arc inward, it feels like two things inside are "catching" and grinding together, such that I feel they need to "pop" or "click" into their proper position, but they don't, and it hurts.
Pain in the HOLE. As I say, seriously considering cutting all shoulder exercises out for a week or two.

Incline BB press: 62.5kg / 9 / 7 / 7 - not as good as the previous day, however I'm not being too hard on myself this time since I'd already done 6 reps with 30kg in each hand, and had only stopped because of the shoulder pain. This may have sapped some of my energy for the lift. That's my story and I'm sticking to it ;)

Preacher DBs: 20kg / 10 R, 12 L. Decided to skip pulldowns and do curls early to see if that affected the forearm issue. It did not, of course. >_<

Triceps V-bar: 38.75kg / 12 / 10 / 9 - not bad again. Triceps nice and pumped. Currently feels like this and the back are the only muscles actually getting decent, injury and impediment free workouts :D

Went out again Saturday night. Great night :D Staying sober this weekend to avoid tarnishing the bloods on Tuesday. As I said before, this does mean I'm giving up on free tequila tomorrow night - the things we do for science :D

Day Twenty Eight

Not much to report today. Went to an incredible concert, and enjoying another blast of inspiration so will hopefully be writing a lot this evening - music and erotica >_> )

In all honesty I'm excited for the results. If they show a pronounced spike in hormone levels, then we know that Letrone & Rebirth work. If LH and FSH are significantly raised, it might mean that I've achieved a HPTA restart and a change in my body's "set point", which would be the holy grail here and indicate that higher hormone levels will be "normal" for me from now on, rather than my usual "just barely over the limit for hypogonadotropism" paradigm. Here's hoping.

If on the other hand, there's no real change, then I've established that the mood and libido issues supposedly caused by lacklustre hormones and HPTA function are actually just in my head. If the placebo effect is that's improved my mood, motivation and libido so significantly over the last month, then the only problem I have is a psychological one :D

So either way, the results will be good news. The worst case scenario here is that I have a non-functioning HPTA but that Letrone and Rebirth can temporarily boost it. If that's the case, so be it. I don't particularly mind doing regular cycles since I've experienced no notable side effects. So no matter what happens, there's hope in this, purely due to the fact that I feel epic at the moment. It's either a permanent boost, a placebo effect, or a dose-dependent boost which requires the ongoing use of supps. None of those scenarios are particularly unpleasant ones. :D

Come on, Tuesday!
 

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Letrone is strong, period. I ran 2 caps on my blast and now run 1 on TRT the day after inject. Hands down the strongest OTC AI available and you need to tweak it to your own liking.
 

conkertheking

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Letrone is strong, period. I ran 2 caps on my blast and now run 1 on TRT the day after inject. Hands down the strongest OTC AI available and you need to tweak it to your own liking.
And going by Vujade's log, Rebirth does the job as well.
vujade, did you ever get any more blood work done after finishing your Rebirth run? Do you know whether your restart lasted after you finished the supps?

Curious as to whether I should expect this to be a temporary lift, or a fundamental recovery.
 

conkertheking

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I'm going to have to be honest here and say that on day 29, I did get fairly drunk at my friend's birthday. Four pints of beer and a shot of tequila. However, from what I've been reading, this shouldn't **** up hormone levels beyond a few hours if it's once-off, so here's hoping it doesn't mess up the test tomorrow morning :D
 
kboxer7

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BLR Letrone &amp; Rebirth - let's get those hormones flowing :D (+Bloods)

Great log. Very detailed and informative. I've been quietly following along : )

Happy to hear libido and mood and general feeling of well being are on the rise for you.
 
vujade

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And going by Vujade's log, Rebirth does the job as well.
vujade, did you ever get any more blood work done after finishing your Rebirth run?
Do you know whether your restart lasted after you finished the supps?

Curious as to whether I should expect this to be a temporary lift, or a fundamental recovery.

Did not do follow up bloodwork. Though libido and mood stayed consistent in the 4 months i was off cycle.
Just got done with a 10 week Osta / Stano cycle and have stated PCT w/ Rebirth, Viron & Letrone. Will be
doing bloodwork again to see how i bounce back this time.
 

conkertheking

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Did not do follow up bloodwork. Though libido and mood stayed consistent in the 4 months i was off cycle.
Just got done with a 10 week Osta / Stano cycle and have stated PCT w/ Rebirth, Viron & Letrone. Will be
doing bloodwork again to see how i bounce back this time.
Nice! Any chance of sharing that when it's done?

Also, got my bloods done this morning:

Liver
Renal

Testosterone
Estradiol
SHGB
LH
FSH
Prolactin

TSH
T3
T4

Should have them back Friday, or maybe Monday.
 
kboxer7

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Nice! Any chance of sharing that when it's done?

Also, got my bloods done this morning:

Liver
Renal

Testosterone
Estradiol
SHGB
LH
FSH
Prolactin

TSH
T3
T4

Should have them back Friday, or maybe Monday.
Exciting!
 

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Nice! Any chance of sharing that when it's done?

Also, got my bloods done this morning:

Liver
Renal

Testosterone
Estradiol
SHGB
LH
FSH
Prolactin

TSH
T3
T4

Should have them back Friday, or maybe Monday.
Up!
 
vujade

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looking forward to it..
 

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RESULTS ARE IN!!!

Well ladies and gentlemen, got my results this morning. Epic in some ways, not so great in others, but certainly gives me a clear route forward with my hormones and a clear recommendation of Letrone as an incredible AI product :D

Code:
Result			Baseline		Post cycle		Range

Hormones:

Testosterone: 		11.1 		 	10.2			8.6-29.0 nmol/L
Estradiol*: 		80 	 		<50			95 - 223 pmol/L
LH: 			3.1 			3.0			2 - 9 IU/L
FSH: 			2.0		 	2.0			2 - 12 U/L
SHGB: 			24.4 			29.6			16.5 - 55.9 nmol/L
Prolactin: 		224 			237			86-324 mU/L

Thyroid:

TSH: 			2.74 			3.01			0.27 - 4.2 mIU/L
Free T4: 		14.6 			17.7			12.0 - 22.0 pmol/L
Total T3: 		1.86 			2.35			1.3 - 3.1 nmol/L
None of my liver or renal values were abnormal. I will post these as soon as I find the print-out of the previous test, so I can post baseline with post cycle - I just can't remember which drawer I put it in :D

As you can see, all three Thyroid values are higher than pre-cycle. This is pretty epic - I wonder how much this can be corroborated with improved mood etc?

Regarding hormones: in my unexpert opinion, these results are telling me that Letrone is an absolutely stellar product. My Estradiol was so low that the lab didn't actually give me an exact figure - 95 pmol is the bottom of their range, after half a year of Formestane it had dropped from 112 to 80, but on Letrone they've given me a result which says "<50", implying that anything below 50 is too low for them to bother testing. Their range used to go down as low as 30, but apparently last year they started using a different enzyme to test the blood which produces a more accurate result, but results in the range needing to be raised.

Testosterone is almost the same as it was in the baseline, slightly lower, and LH and FSH are broadly unaffected. Now this doesn't suggest that Rebirth doesn't work, it just suggests that my particular problem with regard to gonadotropins is not related to estrogen feedback. And in fact, this is corroborated by the low E2 result - even if Rebirth didn't work at all, an E2 result that low should have the same effect by up-regulating LH production, and it didn't.

This suggests to me that my real hormone issue is Prolactin, which has repeatedly stubbornly refused to budge even with a Prolactrone cycle. As you can see here, my prolactin is actually slightly higher than it was going into the test, and I've certainly heard others say that prolactin being high can pretty much kill any hope of a proper HPTA restart, regardless of how much one alters E2 or ER levels.

So I think my next cycle, perhaps not until the new year, will be a stack of Letrone, Viron, and Prolactrone with ZMA every night. As I said previously, Prolactrone didn't reduce my PRL by much, but I had wondered if cutting ZMA from my stack might have caused a B6 deficiency, which would limit the brain's ability to convert L-DOPA to Dopamine. This is therefore the obvious next port of call. I'll drop Rebirth for two reasons, firstly to see if perhaps one of its effects was to lessen the boost from lower E2, but also because clearly with Letrone dropping E2 so low, there's really no need to run a SERM at the same time.

I do one to add one caveat regarding Rebirth though. In the course of my research, I discovered that one of the SERMs in Rebirth has an anti-estrogenic effect at ER beta, but a small estrogenic effect at ER alpha. So it could be that it's this estrogenic effect on ER alpha which prevented the drop in E2 from causing negative feedback. Documentation is incredibly sparse on which estrogen receptor is involved in HPTA regulation, so it's difficult to comment on this either way - however, as this effect is noted as "significant but small" in the write-ups, it seems preposterous to suggest that it could counteract the effect of E2 dropping so low. So for the time being, my conclusion here is that Letrone is a fantastic product and that Rebirth may be - the prolactin issue makes it very difficult to judge exactly why this stack didn't boost my HPTA.

As I say, next stack will be Viron (Test booster), Letrone (AI) and Prolactrone (Dopamine booster) - but with the addition of ZMA.

Don't expect that one too soon as I say - this is probably unnecessary and more "feels" than science, but I'd like to give my body a break from messing around with this stuff, if that makes sense. I know it's not a PH cycle or anything like that, but on the other hand I've been on Formestane since January and then Letrone just a month or two after that, and I'm just not sure what kind of uncharted waters I'd be heading into if I basically went a full year without letting my body do its thing without supplement support. Laugh at this if you will. :p

Thanks to everyone who gave me encouragement in this log, and thanks to Brundel for creating this absolutely stellar product. A 30pmol drop in estradio (AT LEAST - remember it could be a lot lower than 50, that's just as low as my lab will report!) is just incredible, and is actually far, more than Formestane achieved. I will have absolutely no hesitation in recommending Letrone to anyone who is looking for estradiol reductions, and the gigantic libido boost I experienced is of course icing on the cake :D

Until next time!
 
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GreekTheBrick

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Enjoyed your log, enjoy your new values!
 

Sss23

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Thanks for posting! Have you tried anything else to reduce prolactin?
 

conkertheking

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Thanks for posting! Have you tried anything else to reduce prolactin?
Only Prolactrone. I'd consider Inhibit P next time but I have serious misgivings about mixing B6 and L-DOPA in one product - as far as I can see from my own research, both are needed in the body but should be taken at different times of the day to avoid peripheral conversion. Complex stuff, think I need to do more reading about it before I commit to one product or another for the next run - will definitely be including Viron and Letrone though.
 

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Could you explain what you mean by peripheral conversion?
 

conkertheking

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Could you explain what you mean by peripheral conversion?
Bit complicated, but I'll give it a shot:

L-DOPA is converted to Dopamine by the enzyme DOPA decarboxylase. This enzyme is created in the body using Vitamin B6.

Dopamine's primary effects are in the brain, but Dopamine itself cannot cross the blood brain barrier. On the other hand, DOPA decarboxylase exists both inside and outside the brain, meaning that if levels are too high, the L-DOPA is primarily converted before it has a chance to reach the brain, resulting in no rise in the brain's levels of dopamine.

When L-DOPA is used clinically, it is administered with another compound, Carbidopa, which inhibits the decraboxylase but only outside the brain. Unfortunately this compound is prescription only, but unlike L-DOPA doesn't seem to have any abundant plant sources to get around that. Ergo, supplements containing L-DOPA use EGCG, which is a weaker inhibitor, to block the conversion outside the brain.

To put it simply, there's a lot of disagreement over whether or not taking vitamin B6 at the same time as L-DOPA leads to a rapid spike in decarboxylase levels, thus destroying some of the L-DOPA before it gets where it needs to go. On the other hand, a B6 deficiency overall will prevent it from being converted even when it reaches the brain. I'm postulating that my dropping of ZMA (which contains B6) around the time I was on Prolactrone, coupled with my being on a cut (meaning my vitamin levels were probably depleted in general to some extent) may explain why prolactin only reduced by a small amount. However, I'm also unsure of whether a product containing B6 and L-DOPA together would be effective, since administering them in the same dose may result in the L-DOPA being wasted.

Complex stuff, I'd recommend further reading rather than my rather rushed and simplistic explanation :D
 

kisaj

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Why not start up the chain and reap more benefits from tyrosine or even dlpa?
 

conkertheking

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BLR Letrone &amp; Rebirth - let's get those hormones flowing :D (+Bloods)

May give that a try! You're all miles ahead of me here, all I'm decided on is running Viron with my next Letrone cycle and adding in something OTC for prolactin reduction Would like to give Prolactrone another try though, it's the only BLR product I've used which hasn't had a big effect on my levels and I suspect that this is related to cessation of ZMA and cutting somewhat while I was taking it.
 
ValiantThor08

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Am bumping this to show real world blood results of the ability of Letrone to reduce e2 levels. I thought this was pretty cool for an OTC product.
 
ELROCK

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Am bumping this to show real world blood results of the ability of Letrone to reduce e2 levels. I thought this was pretty cool for an OTC product.
It dropped my E2 by 11 or 12 points if I remember correctly. I tested it when it first came out. My estrogen wasn’t high to begin with so that makes it more impressive imo.
 

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