Bloodwork

Grassroots082

Grassroots082

Board Supporter
Okay. I will begin with saying that I haven't gotten my blood checked in alittle while, its been less than a year so I really got a wake up call.

All my results came back good, except for liver enzymes. My cholesterol was 138, HDL was 56 and LDL was 76. Triglycerides were 29.

Back to the enzymes. Bilirubin and all was good. ALT = 209, AST = 91. So of course I am having to quit all supplements, I am negative for Hep A/B/C and I do not have mono. I had a stomach virus 3 weeks ago, as I had mentioned. My supplements :

ALA/R-ALA
Protein Powder (casein and whey)
Creatine Ethyl Ester
Lightning
Vitamin B and C
Beta Sitosterols

I am not yellow, do not have jaundice, feel fine other than the fact that I probably have eye strain from computer work all day. I train heavy, DC style 3 days a week, and just started it actually. What could have caused my enzymes to be this high? Going back for bloodwork in 2 weeks, and of course it is ALL the supplements fault. :rant::rant:
 
Did you train within 48-72 hours of the testing? If so, that may be the reason. It happened to my friend last year, and he blew thousands on medical bills. Then, it mysteriously disappeared.

Why does this happen? ALT and AST also exist in skeletal muscle, and are released into the bloodstream after intense workouts.

If you didn't take time off before the test, take 3 days off before redrawing.
 
Beowulf said:
Did you train within 48-72 hours of the testing? If so, that may be the reason. It happened to my friend last year, and he blew thousands on medical bills. Then, it mysteriously disappeared.

Why does this happen? ALT and AST also exist in skeletal muscle, and are released into the bloodstream after intense workouts.

If you didn't take time off before the test, take 3 days off before redrawing.
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:goodpost:
 
Your cholesterol is too low as well. Sufficient cholesterol is necessary in order to manufacture hormones...testosterone being one of them. Did you get a male hormone panel run also?
 
I did workout approximately 40hrs exactly before my blood was drawn.

It was a fasting test, and like I said everything else was normal. My RBC/Hemocrit/Hemoglobin was alittle bit on the high side, but everything else was normal. I am taking it pretty easy this week, no protein powder and haven't worked out for a few days at all. With that being said, would that cause my levels to be THAT high? Either way, thanks for the re-assurance.
 
jonny21 said:
:goodpost:
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Learned it from you, bro. I knew it existed, but not why. Remember I wondered if the elevated levels due to weight training were detrimental to the liver :toofunny:

I love reflecting on prior misconceived notions.
 
Brennon said:
Your cholesterol is too low as well. Sufficient cholesterol is necessary in order to manufacture hormones...testosterone being one of them. Did you get a male hormone panel run also?
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My cholesterol was lower last time I went, IE in good health.

1 Year ago

Total : 126
HDL : 58
LDL : 59
 
Grassroots082 said:
I did workout approximately 40hrs exactly before my blood was drawn.

It was a fasting test, and like I said everything else was normal. My RBC/Hemocrit/Hemoglobin was alittle bit on the high side, but everything else was normal. I am taking it pretty easy this week, no protein powder and haven't worked out for a few days at all. With that being said, would that cause my levels to be THAT high? Either way, thanks for the re-assurance.
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Ummmmmmm
Why does this happen? ALT and AST also exist in skeletal muscle, and are released into the bloodstream after intense workouts.
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I'd get it checked again. Take 3 days off before the test. That is what I did and mine came back great.
 
Grassroots082 said:
I did workout approximately 40hrs exactly before my blood was drawn.

It was a fasting test, and like I said everything else was normal. My RBC/Hemocrit/Hemoglobin was alittle bit on the high side, but everything else was normal. I am taking it pretty easy this week, no protein powder and haven't worked out for a few days at all. With that being said, would that cause my levels to be THAT high? Either way, thanks for the re-assurance.
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Did you get a BMP or CMP? If you have your Hgb & Hct you probably got a CBC. What did your WBC look like?

Just post up all of the results. We can gain a better perspective. Who knows? Maybe you were a little dehydrated and caused elevated numbers.
 
Grassroots082 said:
My cholesterol was lower last time I went, IE in good health.

1 Year ago

Total : 126
HDL : 58
LDL : 59
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I personally wouldn't consider a cholesterol level that low in good health..
 
jonny21 said:
Did you get a BMP or CMP? If you have your Hgb & Hct you probably got a CBC. What did your WBC look like?

Just post up all of the results. We can gain a better perspective. Who knows? Maybe you were a little dehydrated and caused elevated numbers.
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Not a problem. Not sure if it was a BMP or a CMP, I just went for a physical w/ bloodwork. I didn't order a special lab or anything, just what they offer w/ a physical.
 

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Brennon said:
I personally wouldn't consider a cholesterol level that low in good health..
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What I was saying, is that I was given a clean bill of health the last time I got a physical w/ blood work. My ALT and AST were normal, that was when my total was 126. Perhaps you could clue me into what a "healthy" cholesterol level is?
 
Grassroots082 said:
Perhaps you could clue me into what a "healthy" cholesterol level is?
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Yeah, I'd like to know too.

Grassroots082,

I wouldn't be overly concerned. Although enzyme levels are elevated it does not always mean there is liver disease/issues. WBC & Diff are wnl limits so viral infection/hepatits could most likely be ruled out. Your bilirubin is wnl so you could probably rule out cholestasis.

I do not know what is in "Lightning" but the other supplements that you listed are not known to be causes of elevated LFT's, at least to my knowledge. When you go back, see if you can get your MD to add GGT to the liver panel.

I am not a doctor so please do not take this as medical advice. It is JMO, although it is an educated one :D.

By the way, that is a Comprehensive Metabolic Panel (CMP)

Thanks for posting up the results.

Did you cycle in the recent past?
 
jonny21 said:
Yeah, I'd like to know too.

Grassroots082,

I wouldn't be overly concerned. Although enzyme levels are elevated it does not always mean there is liver disease/issues. WBC & Diff are wnl limits so viral infection/hepatits could most likely be ruled out. Your bilirubin is wnl so you could probably rule out cholestasis.

I do not know what is in "Lightning" but the other supplements that you listed are not known to be causes of elevated LFT's, at least to my knowledge. When you go back, see if you can get your MD to add GGT to the liver panel.

I am not a doctor so please do not take this as medical advice. It is JMO, although it is an educated one :D.

By the way, that is a Comprehensive Metabolic Panel (CMP)

Thanks for posting up the results.

Did you cycle in the recent past?
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Thanks for your help Jonny, very much appreciated. My most recent cycle was 1-Test/Test dermal which consisted of a Clomid PCT w/ a few other things like Fenugreek and ATD. That was finished say late November. I have experimented with things (i.e. Nettle/ATD) in the meantime, but nothing really to amount to anything. I really don't care for ATD that much, it kills my sex drive and 25mg is the dose that I can run without noticing that much of a impact. Lightning is Omega's new arginine based supplement, so it shouldn't really effect AST or ALT at least not to my knowledge. Will get on that GGT, going back in 10-11 days or so and get re-drawn. Do you think it would be inadvisable to participate in resistance training? Or should low intensity cardio be the best option for getting these numbers down. R-ALA and Vitamin C are the only things I am supplementing as of right now. Protein powder is even put on the back burner. Again thanks for the help J21.
 
Grassroots082 said:
Do you think it would be inadvisable to participate in resistance training? Or should low intensity cardio be the best option for getting these numbers down.
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I would just rec'd that you do no resistance training for at least 72 hours prior to next draw. I have seen people with ALT & AST >1000 each clear the enzymes within a week.
 
IMO no way in hell your AST and ALT are that high from training. I base this on testing myself about 100 times over the past 3 years.

Also you're cholesterol is fine.
 
I think I read somewhere a reference to football players having blood drawn after training and ALT//AST being near 1000. I would not rule out training as culprit here.
 
Hey Buddy -- your labs are approx 4x baseline... nothing to be terribly concerned about. There are some targeted compounds that will clear the liver values.
 
Shouldn't he be taking NAC and milk thistle? I almost always have high liver values....but not that high :blink: My next blood draw, I'm going to take your advice and not train prior to the draw. Maybe I'll be "normal".

Do you drink? Do you take any diuretics?

Also, what is your protein/carb/fat intake? Just curious. I'm surprised that your BUN came in normal. That's the one that usually falls out of range for our "type".

SS - my last lipid check was 121 and my LDL was too low to measure. Just curious what you think about that.
 
SJA said:
Shouldn't he be taking NAC and milk thistle? I almost always have high liver values....but not that high :blink: My next blood draw, I'm going to take your advice and not train prior to the draw. Maybe I'll be "normal".

Do you drink? Do you take any diuretics?

Also, what is your protein/carb/fat intake? Just curious. I'm surprised that your BUN came in normal. That's the one that usually falls out of range for our "type".

SS - my last lipid check was 121 and my LDL was too low to measure. Just curious what you think about that.
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Drink on occasions, used to alot more than I do now (few years ago i.e. college). My blood test a year ago looked great, and nothing changed that much except alot more food and two cycles. I drink maybe once a month if that, sometimes once every 2-3 months, definately not a habitual thing.

300c/350-400p/120f is a decent baseline for my diet. At the time of the test, I was taking alot of protein powder, usually 2 blend shakes a day with 1 cup of oatmeal in skim milk and toast and prunes and stuff to up the cals. Natty for quite some time, no orals for the past 8 months or so.

I also drink 1.5 to 2 gallons of water a day. I really think it was due to training, or creatine has given me a liver disease. Will get redrawn this fri and let you know the results.
 
Grassroots082 said:
What I was saying, is that I was given a clean bill of health the last time I got a physical w/ blood work. My ALT and AST were normal, that was when my total was 126. Perhaps you could clue me into what a "healthy" cholesterol level is?
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Here's a thread that might help...

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I see no reason or supporting information in that thread. Just some guy stating what he thinks.

BTW, maybe someone should break the news gently to him that cholesterol is synthesized from acetyl CoA. We don't want to shatter his ego.
 
jonny21 said:
I see no reason or supporting information in that thread. Just some guy stating what he thinks.

BTW, maybe someone should break the news gently to him that cholesterol is synthesized from acetyl CoA. We don't want to shatter his ego.
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I'd say Marianco is more than 'some guy', but to each his own. He's more along the lines of SWALE.
 
Uh Oh, did I offend some deity of the Meso board?

Maybe he should just stick to giving advice on what he actually knows, that is all I am saying.
 
jonny21 said:
Uh Oh, did I offend some deity of the Meso board?

Maybe he should just stick to giving advice on what he actually knows, that is all I am saying.
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Didn't offend anyone...

But I do see some credibility in a person that's done literally thousands of assays and has more personal experience on the matter than just about any other person.

Food for thought



Low Cholesterol Linked to Depression and Anxiety

Healthy young women with naturally low cholesterol levels are likely to face greater risks of poor psychological health than women with moderate to high cholesterol levels, new research done at the Duke University Medical Center indicates. Most previous studies have been done exclusively with men.

Edward C. Suarez, PhD, who conducted the research, found that 39 percent of the women with naturally occurring low cholesterol levels in his study scored high to very high on a depression scale, and 35 percent of them scored similarly high on a scale measuring anxiety. This compares with 19 percent for depression and 21 percent for anxiety among the women with higher cholesterol levels (above 4.14 mmol/l or 160 mg/dl).

The study, reported in the June issue of Psychosomatic Medicine, also looked at the relation of low density lipoprotein cholesterol and triglyceride concentrations and found them to be significantly linked with depression and anxiety. "The findings add important information in helping us to understand biological aspects of depression and anxiety. Furthermore, the findings may be relevant to observations of increased non-illness-related deaths (suicide and other traumatic deaths) among persons with naturally occurring low cholesterol levels," says Suarez.

In the general population, only a relatively small number of people, approximately 10-15 percent of persons living in the United States, have low levels of total cholesterol, Suarez points out. "This study does not address the question of whether lipid lowering is associated with the onset of depressive mood and anxiety states," cautioned Dr. Suarez. "The only conclusions that can be drawn from these data are that healthy individuals prone to depressive moods and anxiety exhibit low concentrations of lipids and lipoproteins."
 
Here is the thing; you made a statement and then gave that link as your basis. There is nothing in that link confirming your statement. I do not know him or his work that is why he is "some guy" to me. Maybe it is a good thing for me because if I did hold his opinion in high esteem I would now think that cholesterol was synthesized directly from glucose.

How hormonally similar are 23yo males with young females?

Thanks for the food for thought though.

If the gentleman that posted his bloodwork had said his Test levels were very low for a 23yo male then maybe I would consider your reasoning.
 
jonny21 said:
Here is the thing; you made a statement and then gave that link as your basis. There is nothing in that link confirming your statement. I do not know him or his work that is why he is "some guy" to me. Maybe it is a good thing for me because if I did hold his opinion in high esteem I would now think that cholesterol was synthesized directly from glucose.

How hormonally similar are 23yo males with young females?

Thanks for the food for thought though.

If the gentleman that posted his bloodwork had said his Test levels were very low for a 23yo male then maybe I would consider your reasoning.
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I suppose by that same logic, you would then say that if his TSH were out of the range, but he said nothing of having a thyroid condition, he'd be fine? The intial link was to educate rather than to prove a point.

There's probably a thousand studies out there saying the same thing. Are you always this argumentative?

Bipolar Disord. 2005 Oct;7(5):449-55.Invalid Link Removed Links
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[SIZE=+1]Reductions in cholesterol and synaptic markers in association cortex in mood disorders.[/SIZE]

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Center for Complex Disorders, Department of Psychiatry, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada. [email protected]

OBJECTIVES: Cholesterol forms an integral part of cell membranes and is a major component of myelin. Furthermore, cholesterol also plays a vital role in the development, function and stability of synapses. While low serum cholesterol has previously been associated with mood disorders, cholesterol levels have yet to be quantified within the brain in these disorders. The aim of this study was to quantify sterol levels in the brains of patients with major psychiatric disorders and further to relate these levels to markers of myelin and synapses. METHODS: Samples of visual association cortex were obtained postmortem from subjects with bipolar disorder (BPD), major depressive disorder (MDD) and schizophrenia (SCZ) and from controls (all n = 15). Concentrations of brain cholesterol, its precursors lathosterol, desmosterol and lanosterol and its metabolite 24S-hydroxycholesterol were determined by gas-liquid chromatography. Immunoreactivity for myelin basic protein (MBP), synaptophysin and VAMP was quantified by enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay. RESULTS: Cholesterol levels were 13% lower in MDD (p = 0.018) and 10% lower in BPD (p = 0.052) compared with controls. Cholesterol precursor or metabolite concentrations did not differ between groups. Synaptophysin immunoreactivity was 20% lower in BPD (p = 0.025) and VAMP immunoreactivity 37% lower in MDD (p = 0.032) and 45% lower in BPD (p = 0.009). MBP immunoreactivity was not altered in any disorder. CONCLUSIONS: Our data suggest that lower brain cholesterol levels and a reduction in synapses may be features of mood disorders.
 
J Affect Disord. 2006 Jan;90(1):21-7. Epub 2005 Dec 1.Invalid Link Removed Links Invalid Link Removed
[SIZE=+1]Leptin and cholesterol levels are low in major depressive disorder, but high in schizophrenia.[/SIZE]

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School of Medicine, Fu Jen Catholic University, Hsin-Chuang, Taipei Hsien 24205, Taiwan.

BACKGROUND: Appetite, food intake and weight are frequently altered in psychiatric disorders such as major depression and schizophrenia. Leptin is an adipocyte hormone, as the product of the ob gene, regulating food intake and energy balance providing the hypothalamus with information on the amount of body fat. Leptin seems to be strongly associated with lipid metabolism. Moreover, leptin is involved in the control of other behaviors and in brain development. There are few studies about the amounts of plasma leptin in mood disorder and schizophrenia with inconsistent findings. The relationship between leptin and major depressive disorder is still unknown. We planned to investigate the relationship of the serum leptin concentration, cholesterol, and BMI between patients with major depressive disorder, schizophrenic patients and healthy control subjects. METHODS: In the present study, the BMI, plasma cholesterol and leptin levels, BDI, and BPRS were compared in 69 patients with major depressive disorder, 78 schizophrenic patients, and 51 healthy controls. RESULTS: The major findings of our study included (1) leptin and cholesterol levels were low in patients with major depressive disorder, but high in schizophrenic patients; (2) negative correlations between BDI scores and serum cholesterol or leptin levels in the patients with major depressive disorder; (3) an inconsistently positive correlation between mean leptin levels, cholesterol, and BMI among different groups; (4) positive correlations between serum cholesterol or leptin levels and the length of illness in the schizophrenic patients. CONCLUSIONS: In this study, our results indicate that that leptin and cholesterol might play differently important pathophysiological roles in these psychiatric disorders.

J Affect Disord. 2004 Aug;81(2):161-6.Invalid Link Removed Links
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[SIZE=+1]Clinical application of low serum cholesterol as an indicator for suicide risk in major depression.[/SIZE]

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Department of Psychiatry, Korea University College of Medicine, Seoul, South Korea. [email protected]

BACKGROUND: Serum total cholesterol is reported to be associated with suicidality and violence. We explored the clinical applicability of low serum total cholesterol as an indicator for suicide risk in major depression. METHOD: We measured the serum cholesterol levels in 149 major depressive disorder patients admitted to an emergency room following a suicide attempt, in 149 non-suicidal depressive controls, and in 251 normal controls. RESULTS: Significant differences in total serum cholesterol levels were observed between the suicide patients and non-suicide depression patients and between violent suicide patients and non-violent suicide patients when age, sex, BMI and total serum protein levels were controlled. The cutoff point of 180 mg/dl gave a high sensitivity (82%), and the cutoff point 150 mg/dl gave a high specificity (72%). These points can be used as discriminative cutoffs between suicidal and non-suicidal depressive patients. LIMITATIONS: A longitudinal study is necessary to confirm the clinical applicability of serum cholesterol as a predictive indicator of suicide risk in depression. CONCLUSION: The results suggest that total cholesterol level may be a useful biological marker for the risk of suicide in depression patients.
 
This is pointless. :frustrate

Grassroots082,
You are now officially on suicide watch.
 
jonny21 said:
This is pointless. :frustrate

Grassroots082,
You are now officially on suicide watch.
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:rofl:

I've had low cholesterol levels for quite some time, pops is on up there though so I am sure they will change in the future for the worse. I might have low testosterone levels, but I am not sure they didn't check for that. Depressed? Nah no more than anyone else.
 
"Heard" that my ALT was still high/higher but AST is pretty much back to normal. Will get exact numbers on Monday, but gave blood this morning at a fasted state. Definately wasn't exercise that caused the elevation :( Took 7 days off of any exercise before this test. ****ty 3 weeks, going back in another 8 weeks, but in the meantime I will continue to DC train and eat right w/ a PWO shake.
 
Ok update. Got blood drawn on the 24th at 8AM fasted. My AST is back under 40, however ALT is still at 91. So its getting better, will release a copy when it gets mailed to me. Started sneaking some Milk Thistle as well.
 
where do you get blood tests at? I am planning on checking mine this summer after having been off for 4months or so by than.
 
Grassroots082 said:
Ok update. Got blood drawn on the 24th at 8AM fasted. My AST is back under 40, however ALT is still at 91. So its getting better, will release a copy when it gets mailed to me. Started sneaking some Milk Thistle as well.
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Good to hear.

BTW, has anyone taken your shoelaces and belts yet?

Just in case:lol:
National Suicide Hotlines USA

​
Toll-Free / 24 hours a day / 7 days a week​

1-800-SUICIDE
 
SJA said:
SS - my last lipid check was 121 and my LDL was too low to measure. Just curious what you think about that.
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:think: My lab doesn't do LDL as a direct assay. It's a calculated value from Total Chol/HDL/Triglycerides. There is a direct test, however.

That's a weird result. I don't know what to make of it.

Guess: Instrument blunder, should have been repeated by tech but wasn't.
 
jonny21 said:
Good to hear.

BTW, has anyone taken your shoelaces and belts yet?

Just in case:lol:
National Suicide Hotlines USA

​
Toll-Free / 24 hours a day / 7 days a week​

1-800-SUICIDE
Click to expand...

:icon_lol:
 
snakebyte05 said:
where do you get blood tests at? I am planning on checking mine this summer after having been off for 4months or so by than.
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I get it drawn at my doctors office. They have their own lab there, Labcorp or something to that effect. Its like a research park almost, doctors buildings everywhere, something like a community college w/ different practices all in the general area that you can walk to.
 
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