Bloodwork - 500Mg/week Test E + Oral Winstrol 70Mg/day

Whisky

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Yeah that sucks a bit. Been there myself (almost identical test levels off 500 ew. Found a better lab and the difference was unbelievable).
 

CroLifter

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Winstrol hits cholesterol hard.
Yes it does, but most orals will leave results like this, anavar too, silly to think its a mild drug, maybe mild in terms of results 😁

This even doesnt seem that bad considering the dose of winstrol. I have seen bloodworks with anavar hdl low 20s ldl of 200, not to mention those "otc" steroids like epistane or msten, hdl in the teens.

Liver also isnt too shot, he seems to be tolerating this well.



On topic, those levels seem reflective of around 200 - 250mg of actual test enanthate a week, from my experience. Some people would have these numbers from even less.
 
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bad rad

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I have a very poor response regarding serum testosterone levels vs the dose injected. I'm consistently around the 5x factor, ie, 200mg gives me serum levels of 1000ng/dL.

I agree, your testosterone is under dosed.
 
Jinsun

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Yes it does, but most orals will leave results like this, anavar too, silly to think its a mild drug, maybe mild in terms of results 😁

This even doesnt seem that bad considering the dose of winstrol. I have seen bloodworks with anavar hdl low 20s ldl of 200, not to mention those "otc" steroids like epistane or msten, hdl in the teens.

Liver also isnt too shot, he seems to be tolerating this well.



On topic, those levels seem reflective of around 200 - 250mg of actual test enanthate a week, from my experience. Some people would have these numbers from even less.
I would have those levels on 150 test.

What's interesting is the he is hypothyroid!
 
Mathb33

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Yeah either your body can’t process test for **** which unfortunately is the case of a few guys or your test is garbage. Hopefully you trust your source and did your homework before buying from them. I’d need around 175-190 mg a week to reach your actual levels... and 500 brings me around 3000 if I remember correctly.
 

Uncle_E

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I have a very poor response regarding serum testosterone levels vs the dose injected. I'm consistently around the 5x factor, ie, 200mg gives me serum levels of 1000ng/dL.

I agree, your testosterone is under dosed.

200mg a week of pharma test is getting me to around 900ng/dL 7 days after the shot. I do have another blood draw in a few weeks, maybe it will be higher this time.

@DadStrength how do you feel with your free test so high? I was at 26.9, and the top end of the range was 25 - I was/am always thinking about sex. You’re double the range, that must feel wild.
 
Jinsun

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200mg a week of pharma test is getting me to around 900ng/dL 7 days after the shot. I do have another blood draw in a few weeks, maybe it will be higher this time.

@DadStrength how do you feel with your free test so high? I was at 26.9, and the top end of the range was 25 - I was/am always thinking about sex. You’re double the range, that must feel wild.
Test e has a half life of 5 days and tmax of 10 hours. If you measure your TT 7 days after pin, your levels will be low(er).
 
DadStrength

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Yes it does, but most orals will leave results like this, anavar too, silly to think its a mild drug, maybe mild in terms of results 😁

This even doesnt seem that bad considering the dose of winstrol. I have seen bloodworks with anavar hdl low 20s ldl of 200, not to mention those "otc" steroids like epistane or msten, hdl in the teens.

Liver also isnt too shot, he seems to be tolerating this well.



On topic, those levels seem reflective of around 200 - 250mg of actual test enanthate a week, from my experience. Some people would have these numbers from even less.
Oddly enough, when I ran bloodwork at 4 weeks with Anavar at 40Mg/day for the first 4 weeks, my liver wasn't even elevated.
 
DadStrength

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Yeah either your body can’t process test for **** which unfortunately is the case of a few guys or your test is garbage. Hopefully you trust your source and did your homework before buying from them. I’d need around 175-190 mg a week to reach your actual levels... and 500 brings me around 3000 if I remember correctly.
Found a new source I believe to be much more credible - already have it on the way and will likely throw out my supply if I see a big turnaround.
 
DadStrength

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200mg a week of pharma test is getting me to around 900ng/dL 7 days after the shot. I do have another blood draw in a few weeks, maybe it will be higher this time.

@DadStrength how do you feel with your free test so high? I was at 26.9, and the top end of the range was 25 - I was/am always thinking about sex. You’re double the range, that must feel wild.
Didn't realize it was that high - I've actually had others comment it should be higher? Regardless, my sex drive on cycle hasn't really changed though I will say that on/off I could have sex twice a day and still want more - no real limit to that lol.
 

Uncle_E

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Test e has a half life of 5 days and tmax of 10 hours. If you measure your TT 7 days after pin, your levels will be low(er).
I am on Test cyp. - that should have a littlw linger life span, right?
 

Whisky

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Didn't realize it was that high - I've actually had others comment it should be higher? Regardless, my sex drive on cycle hasn't really changed though I will say that on/off I could have sex twice a day and still want more - no real limit to that lol.
feel you there bro. Doesn’t seem to matter what I’m on (or not on) I can always ****. Bit like dessert, doesn’t matter how full you are there’s always room for something sweet 🤣
 
Hyde

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Sexy looking hematocrit and liver values.

Lipids you knew what you were getting into.

Idk if you supplement with Berberine and D3, but I certainly would if you don’t, or at least up the D3. And if you don’t use iodized salt, I would start. I use Morton Lite Salt for added iodine, sodium and potassium intraworkout (and sometimes on my meals.)

Also, what does your BP usually run when you’ve tested it? Did it used to be higher?
 
Mathb33

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Sexy looking hematocrit and liver values.

Lipids you knew what you were getting into.

Idk if you supplement with Berberine and D3, but I certainly would if you don’t, or at least up the D3. And if you don’t use iodized salt, I would start. I use Morton Lite Salt for added iodine, sodium and potassium intraworkout (and sometimes on my meals.)

Also, what does your BP usually run when you’ve tested it? Did it used to be higher?
Agreed on the liver values but I’m curious why his hematocrit level surprise you? He’s just on 500mg test since a few weeks why would they be any different?
 
DadStrength

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Sexy looking hematocrit and liver values.

Lipids you knew what you were getting into.

Idk if you supplement with Berberine and D3, but I certainly would if you don’t, or at least up the D3. And if you don’t use iodized salt, I would start. I use Morton Lite Salt for added iodine, sodium and potassium intraworkout (and sometimes on my meals.)

Also, what does your BP usually run when you’ve tested it? Did it used to be higher?
BP was 104/70 in February off everything.

I supplement with Animal Pak, TUDCA, and 10,000iu Vitamin D daily.
I have been doing the iodized salt thing and cannot seem to get T3 level to come up, sort of concerning!
 
Hyde

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Agreed on the liver values but I’m curious why his hematocrit level surprise you? He’s just on 500mg test since a few weeks why would they be any different?
He’s at week 10 of test e. If 500 many guys would be several points higher we’ll hydrated.

But like he said, probably not actually on 500mg even, which makes sense with his hematocrit.

BP was 104/70 in February off everything.

I supplement with Animal Pak, TUDCA, and 10,000iu Vitamin D daily.
I have been doing the iodized salt thing and cannot seem to get T3 level to come up, sort of concerning!
Good job on BP. So EGFR so figured it was something it’s something worth making sure is good so it stays mid 70s.

If you are using iodized salt daily at 1/8 or 1/4tsp total or whatever the serving is then you know iodine deficiency likely isn’t a problem or contributing to your thyroid numbers. There are other things that effect it much more complexly, but I don’t know jack about it so I will leave that to someone knowledgeable on the subject.

Berberine is an all-around terrific daily health supplement, and will lower your body’s need to produce insulin slightly and lower fasting glucose a little. Pretty affordable too.

Your D levels are in range, but getting more sun or taking more D3 probably couldn’t hurt. My sister was prescribed 40k iu from her doctor to get her out of the 20s.
 
Jinsun

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I've read in a study that was concerning use of AAS and thyroid response. One of the findings was that aas lower thyroid but it bounces back up in the course of the cycle. So maybe this is it.
 

Uncle_E

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And if you don’t use iodized salt, I would start. I use Morton Lite Salt for added iodine, sodium and potassium intraworkout (and sometimes on my meals.)

Also, what does your BP usually run when you’ve tested it? Did it used to be higher?
Newbie question - what’s the goal of adding iodized salt? His sodium and potassium levels were close to the top of the range.
 
Mathb33

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He’s at week 10 of test e. If 500 many guys would be several points higher we’ll hydrated.

But like he said, probably not actually on 500mg even, which makes sense with his hematocrit.



Good job on BP. So EGFR so figured it was something it’s something worth making sure is good so it stays mid 70s.

If you are using iodized salt daily at 1/8 or 1/4tsp total or whatever the serving is then you know iodine deficiency likely isn’t a problem or contributing to your thyroid numbers. There are other things that effect it much more complexly, but I don’t know jack about it so I will leave that to someone knowledgeable on the subject.

Berberine is an all-around terrific daily health supplement, and will lower your body’s need to produce insulin slightly and lower fasting glucose a little. Pretty affordable too.

Your D levels are in range, but getting more sun or taking more D3 probably couldn’t hurt. My sister was prescribed 40k iu from her doctor to get her out of the 20s.
I’m really surprised you have that preconceived idea of test triggering hct ALL the time for EVERYONE. the groups I hang out with and myself are perhaps lucky bastards but I personally don’t ever go over 51.5 on just test, usually I stay within range year round unless I had multiple oils. None of my friends or people I know have hct that go crazy out of range on just test. Usually goes up 1 to 1.5 points... studies show a long and extended use of testosterone will often elevate hct... exemple in trt and blast and cruising... but from bloods I’ve seen people running basic test cycle for 10 to 14 weeks are left with hct almost untouched, or a point off.
 

Uncle_E

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And if you don’t use iodized salt, I would start. I use Morton Lite Salt for added iodine, sodium and potassium intraworkout (and sometimes on my meals.)

Also, what does your BP usually run when you’ve tested it? Did it used to be higher?
Newbie question - what’s the goal of adding iodized salt? His sodium and potassium levels were close to the top of the range.
 
Mathb33

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Newbie question - what’s the goal of adding iodized salt? His sodium and potassium levels were close to the top of the range.
Iodized salt is good for many things and one of them is combatting thyroid problems. I didn’t look very closely at his bloods but his thyroids levels aren’t really great. I imagine he proposed this idea for that. Plus all the other benefits
 

CroLifter

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I’m really surprised you have that preconceived idea of test triggering hct ALL the time for EVERYONE. the groups I hang out with and myself are perhaps lucky bastards but I personally don’t ever go over 51.5 on just test, usually I stay within range year round unless I had multiple oils. None of my friends or people I know have hct that go crazy out of range on just test. Usually goes up 1 to 1.5 points... studies show a long and extended use of testosterone will often elevate hct... exemple in trt and blast and cruising... but from bloods I’ve seen people running basic test cycle for 10 to 14 weeks are left with hct almost untouched, or a point off.
Test can exacerbate some conditions like sleep apnea, by increasing muscle mass and water weight around the neck.

That is usually the biggest factor in increasing rbc, hypoxia drives it.


Its the damn water weight for me. I snored like a hog on 500 test. 250 test 100 tren i experienced no snoring, dont know where my hct was , but i was not waking up with numb arms and legs as i did on 500 test, so i guess it didnt got up that high.

also, a really short cycle, so yeah...


But nonetheless, i believe snoring to be the driving factor behind my rapidly elevating hct on my previous cycle.
 
Mathb33

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Test can exacerbate some conditions like sleep apnea, by increasing muscle mass and water weight around the neck.

That is usually the biggest factor in increasing rbc, hypoxia drives it.


Its the damn water weight for me. I snored like a hog on 500 test. 250 test 100 tren i experienced no snoring, dont know where my hct was , but i was not waking up with numb arms and legs as i did on 500 test, so i guess it didnt got up that high.

also, a really short cycle, so yeah...


But nonetheless, i believe snoring to be the driving factor behind my rapidly elevating hct on my previous cycle.
I have no science behind this but same thing for me. The only time my hct was elevated more than 0.5 point out of range was my only bulk that went dirty on 800mg of test with a poorly controlled estrogen and bloated like a bitch. I was making all kind of noise while falling asleep and my girlfriend often though I was about to choke on something. Never happend again and as bro science as this may sound my girlfriend knows as soon as I start making these noises and snoring something is wrong.
 

Whisky

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I have no science behind this but same thing for me. The only time my hct was elevated more than 0.5 point out of range was my only bulk that went dirty on 800mg of test with a poorly controlled estrogen and bloated like a bitch. I was making all kind of noise while falling asleep and my girlfriend often though I was about to choke on something. Never happend again and as bro science as this may sound my girlfriend knows as soon as I start making these noises and snoring something is wrong.
interesting you boys are saying that as literally this morning a girl was telling me I’ve been snoring badly lately.

never had that issue on test or deca (and I’m cutting so weight is down) etc so I’m assuming the tren? Not had time to properly look into a pharmacology reason why though
 
Renew1

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I'm definitely down with at least part of what you guys are saying here.
 
Jinsun

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Sleep apnea and high rbc is a common thing guys. Like really common. Whoever has trouble breathing the body responds by creating more rbc in order to deliver more oxigen to the body. Makes sense huh :)
 
Hyde

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I’m really surprised you have that preconceived idea of test triggering hct ALL the time for EVERYONE. the groups I hang out with and myself are perhaps lucky bastards but I personally don’t ever go over 51.5 on just test, usually I stay within range year round unless I had multiple oils. None of my friends or people I know have hct that go crazy out of range on just test. Usually goes up 1 to 1.5 points... studies show a long and extended use of testosterone will often elevate hct... exemple in trt and blast and cruising... but from bloods I’ve seen people running basic test cycle for 10 to 14 weeks are left with hct almost untouched, or a point off.
Did I say all the time for everyone? Nope.

It’s not preconceived out of opinion - it is a fact that many guys hematocrit levels raise some with test/gear administration. Be that a point or two, or much more for unlucky ones. 45 is low and healthy to me; 55+ becomes a risk factor for stroke depending on what doctors you listen to.

Mine isn’t 45 on just a few hundred mg of test e. So I’m jelly lol
 
Mathb33

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Did I say all the time for everyone? Nope.

It’s not preconceived out of opinion - it is a fact that many guys hematocrit levels raise some with test/gear administration. Be that a point or two, or much more for unlucky ones. 45 is low and healthy to me; 55+ becomes a risk factor for stroke depending on what doctors you listen to.

Mine isn’t 45 on just a few hundred mg of test e. So I’m jelly lol
no i understand you didn’t mean it that way. Also you’re right this debate or hct being dangerous or not at a certain level is very interesting. Just listened to a doctors podcast on YouTube explain why it’s not dangerous even if you’re a couple points out of range and it’s very confusing to me since some doctors say the opposite and they all seem to have valid arguments. Nonetheless his view of it and why it’s not dangerous was very interesting
 
Hyde

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no i understand you didn’t mean it that way. Also you’re right this debate or hct being dangerous or not at a certain level is very interesting. Just listened to a doctors podcast on YouTube explain why it’s not dangerous even if you’re a couple points out of range and it’s very confusing to me since some doctors say the opposite and they all seem to have valid arguments. Nonetheless his view of it and why it’s not dangerous was very interesting
My understanding (based on things other members in the 35+ section have mentioned their endos said, which is 3rd hand lol) is that it’s just a risk factor. It can get sky high and if you don’t actually have a condition like hypertension, stroke, veinous thrombosis (which can lead to a pulmonary embolism), you’re basically g2g. But the higher it is, the easier it becomes to stroke (or cause other health conditions) - so the immediate danger is when it’s always high, and then you get into a dehydrated situation which makes it a true issue.

I believe therapeutic phlebotomy/ blood donation and time off the offending compounds are primary ways to get it down. And I’ve heard supplementing Grapefruit Seed extract at some dose can lower it a couple points for some (guys trying to stay on TRT with issues).
 
Mathb33

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My understanding (based on things other members in the 35+ section have mentioned their endos said, which is 3rd hand lol) is that it’s just a risk factor. It can get sky high and if you don’t actually have a condition like hypertension, stroke, veinous thrombosis (which can lead to a pulmonary embolism), you’re basically g2g. But the higher it is, the easier it becomes to stroke (or cause other health conditions) - so the immediate danger is when it’s always high, and then you get into a dehydrated situation which makes it a true issue.

I believe therapeutic phlebotomy/ blood donation and time off the offending compounds are primary ways to get it down. And I’ve heard supplementing Grapefruit Seed extract at some dose can lower it a couple points for some (guys trying to stay on TRT with issues).
I have the same vision about it. Also I take grape fruit extract daily and my hct are never out of range on test. I’m certain it’s helpful. It does get out of range when I add certain compounds. Also weirdly enough, how well I control estrogen and water retention seems to play a role in how out of whack my hct gets. This is total brosciemce though
 
Hyde

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I have the same vision about it. Also I take grape fruit extract daily and my hct are never out of range on test. I’m certain it’s helpful. It does get out of range when I add certain compounds. Also weirdly enough, how well I control estrogen and water retention seems to play a role in how out of whack my hct gets. This is total brosciemce though
It’s only N=1 but it’s still valuable. It’s good for you to know and might help others.

More estro, more water bloat. More bloat, harder to breathe. Going back to the hypoxia-induced RBC elevation convo. Sounds believable enough.
 

CroLifter

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X2 on the grapefruit. I did an experiment since i noticed my hct go down after eating a grapefruit everyday.

my hct was 51.3. I ate grapefruit for 10 days. Took the test at the same time in the morning, with the same 2 cups of water before, fasted.

Result was 49.7, which is exactly what i usually experience, about 1-1.5 point drop in hct due to grapepefruit.
 

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