Bloods after 3 months diesel test

kisaj said:
Cool, just looking out.

I am on TRT and also prefer my total test lower than most. I have my protocol dialed in to have total test steady in the high 600s- mid 700s and free test near the top of the range.
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700 total test at 40 years old is actually high. As a comparison, 900 total test is high for a 22 year old.
 
kisaj said:
You, sir. The "information" about total test as an indication of DHEA conversion, total test associated with libido, free test about strength, the cherry picked "important" tests, etc..
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I'm getting this from my knowledge of the HPTA and working with many biochemist over the years and being in the supplement industry for over 13 years. I would consult an endocrinologist with any questions about how hormones work, as this is only for "entertainment" purposes. But i'm correct.
 
kisaj said:
You, sir. The "information" about total test as an indication of DHEA conversion, total test associated with libido, free test about strength, the cherry picked "important" tests, etc..
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When I say important, I am no saying none other test are important, such as FSH, etc etc, but if you are paying to have these test ran, you should get the correct ones to show you something you can analyze and figure out why your results from training are good or not favorable. Those test are the ones that indicate the best on where your libido is, and what direction you need to go to better improve your muscle to fat ratio and gains from training (from a hormonal standpoint).
 
kisaj said:
Cool, just looking out.

I am on TRT and also prefer my total test lower than most. I have my protocol dialed in to have total test steady in the high 600s- mid 700s and free test near the top of the range.
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Totaly understand buddy
 
Also I'm not trying to argue or nothing, I'm just trying to let you guys know what to look into, ask about from you physician, research because most times they literally just say "oh you look healthy" and do not even run any test. For instance another tip is low SHBG is looked at as good,but it usually also relates to higher estrodiol because if you have more free test, you will have more free estrogen. Thats why I recommended having them check estrodiol if they are going to check SHBG. Another example is women when they take birth control. The artificial estrogen seems to boost there SHBG because the body is trying to bind more free estrogen. This increase in SHBG reduces their free test, and even women need free test.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Also I'm not trying to argue or nothing, I'm just trying to let you guys know what to look into, ask about from you physician, research because most times they literally just say "oh you look healthy" and do not even run any test. For instance another tip is low SHBG is looked at as good,but it usually also relates to higher estrodiol because if you have more free test, you will have more free estrogen. Thats why I recommended having them check estrodiol if they are going to check SHBG. Another example is women when they take birth control. The artificial estrogen seems to boost there SHBG because the body is trying to bind more free estrogen. This increase in SHBG reduces their free test, and even women need free test.
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Doctors here in Norway are totaly idiots.
9 nmol/L .. normal range is 10-28 . Do u think doctor asked how i feel? Nope..
he just said..ah thats almost normal. Lol
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Just FYI, I don't know that guy for what its worth. Why have "undercover" reps if I don't have "real" reps. He emailed me the same thing, I ask did he get the test done before DTHLE and he said "no." I said well either stop using it for 2 months get tested and start again, then test again after a month on, but I did tell him, i'd take those free test numbers no matter what test I had ran 3 months ago.
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Hey Chuck nice to see you on here it's been a while and as always I've enjoyed your products and I just picked up
a couple of jars of your new updated version of NOS Precorsor so I'll let you know how that works for me when I run
it and I'm sure it will stack NICE with DTHC.:)
 
Can't read a blood panel but knows which hormones from the test to post on here...hmmmm...
 
Chuck Diesel said:
700 total test at 40 years old is actually high. As a comparison, 900 total test is high for a 22 year old.
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if i tested at 700 total test i am sure they would be looking to reduce my dose. i try to manipulate my injections with blood draws to stay below 600.

i don't know how anyone would think 700 total test is low for someone 40 years old????
 
thebigt said:
if i tested at 700 total test i am sure they would be looking to reduce my dose. i try to manipulate my injections with blood draws to stay below 600.

i don't know how anyone would think 700 total test is low for someone 40 years old????
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Context. 700 levels are optimal for me but lower than the endos are wanting their patients since the goal is mid high to high range. On a 320-1250 scale, 700 levels are not high at all- obviously.
 
kisaj said:
Context. 700 levels are optimal for me but lower than the endos are wanting their patients since the goal is mid high to high range. On a 320-1250 scale, 700 levels are not high at all- obviously.
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you have got to be kidding...my doc would freak if my total test was 700 or higher--my dose would immediately be cut in half.

that is a blanket statement saying endo's want....

maybe yours does.....
 
BigT, I don't really think you are thinking clearly as you type this morning so I am going to cut you some slack.
 
kisaj said:
BigT, I don't really think you are thinking clearly as you type this morning so I am going to cut you some slack.
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i know you deal in statistics and deal with specialists...but many of us poor slobs are stuck with pcp's who aren't as eager to promote good health as they are to cover their asses. they look at the risk involved with trt, such as elevated red blood cells and possible prostate issues, plus even elevated liver values, in my world this is reality!!!

they will prescribe only what is required to get the patient in range, anything over that and the patient is walking a thin line.
 
That is fine and I understand, but that is not the correct way to approach hormone therapy and is not an excuse for ignorance on your doctor's side. There is a lot of experience and education in this subject now and if there is any doubt then a specialist needs to be involved.

This isn't on you, but to make comments about what your doctor would do regardless of how incorrect it may be, then that makes people feel that it is the way to go. It is an ongoing process with your doctors to get you to the highest normal range and address symptoms, along with lab work to make certain everything is in order. One patient may need to be at 900 levels and another at 500 to address symptoms and still stay in range. It is individualistic and why it is so important to have a good doctor that works with you and does not just generalize patients by chasing numbers.
 
kisaj said:
That is fine and I understand, but that is not the correct way to approach hormone therapy and is not an excuse for ignorance on your doctor's side. There is a lot of experience and education in this subject now and if there is any doubt then a specialist needs to be involved.

This isn't on you, but to make comments about what your doctor would do regardless of how incorrect it may be, then that makes people feel that it is the way to go. It is an ongoing process with your doctors to get you to the highest normal range and address symptoms, along with lab work to make certain everything is in order. One patient may need to be at 900 levels and another at 500 to address symptoms and still stay in range. It is individualistic and why it is so important to have a good doctor that works with you and does not just generalize patients by chasing numbers.
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somewhere over the rainbow....reality sucks, but it is what it is!!!

i wish for peace on earth goodwill towards men....
 
thebigt said:
i know you deal in statistics and deal with specialists...but many of us poor slobs are stuck with pcp's who aren't as eager to promote good health as they are to cover their asses. they look at the risk involved with trt, such as elevated red blood cells and possible prostate issues, plus even elevated liver values, in my world this is reality!!!

they will prescribe only what is required to get the patient in range, anything over that and the patient is walking a thin line.
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I am 31 and my total test is just
259 ng/dL which is pretty low, so in my case i should be on TRT actually..
my doc said " its nothing to worry about. You are almost in a normal range" . What??? He/she should deff ask me how i feel because this is pretty low.
It can lead to much issues having low test. Not for everyone but they should ask me how i feel.

I called endo and said my numbers then he said. You can get TRT anytime.
Even u feel great and it does not bother you, but maybe u have got used to it, going around with low t. If you increase it maybe you will get much better mood etc and then you will think "wow this is actually how i shoould feel"..

Apologize my bad english. I could tell this better if my english is better..

The truth is, to many doctors dont realize even you are in a normal range, it can be low for you, and enough for other
 
Danes said:
I am 31 and my total test is just
259 ng/dL which is pretty low, so in my case i should be on TRT actually..
my doc said " its nothing to worry about. You are almost in a normal range" . What??? He/she should deff ask me how i feel because this is pretty low.
It can lead to much issues having low test. Not for everyone but they should ask me how i feel.

I called endo and said my numbers then he said. You can get TRT anytime.
Even u feel great and it does not bother you, but maybe u have got used to it, going around with low t. If you increase it maybe you will get much better mood etc and then you will think "wow this is actually how i shoould feel"..

Apologize my bad english. I could tell this better if my english is better..

The truth is, to many doctors dont realize even you are in a normal range, it can be low for you, and enough for other
Click to expand...

the truth of the matter is just what i said before...'many' doctors are more concerned with covering their asses than what is best for patients, imo!!!

there are risks involved with trt, most doctors will err on the side of caution!!!

i don't think you have read my posts completely or are misunderstanding the point i am making!!!
 
Danes said:
I am 31 and my total test is just
259 ng/dL which is pretty low, so in my case i should be on TRT actually..
my doc said " its nothing to worry about. You are almost in a normal range" . What??? He/she should deff ask me how i feel because this is pretty low.
It can lead to much issues having low test. Not for everyone but they should ask me how i feel.

I called endo and said my numbers then he said. You can get TRT anytime.
Even u feel great and it does not bother you, but maybe u have got used to it, going around with low t. If you increase it maybe you will get much better mood etc and then you will think "wow this is actually how i shoould feel"..

Apologize my bad english. I could tell this better if my english is better..

The truth is, to many doctors dont realize even you are in a normal range, it can be low for you, and enough for other
Click to expand...

hey danes....would you still think your test is low if it were 700?
 
thebigt said:
the truth of the matter is just what i said before...'many' doctors are more concerned with covering their asses than what is best for patients, imo!!!
so my post was not an answer to your post :)

there are risks involved with trt, most doctors will err on the side of caution!!!

i don't think you have read my posts completely or are misunderstanding the point i am making!!!
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I have not misunderstood your post and actually my post was just a picture of my situation and nothing else :)
I just tried to say, many times doctors can be idiots..

Honestly,
700ng/dl which is 24 nmol/L Is far from low and its above the average levels even for a guy in 20s but it does not really means test levels are great! There is other things such as SHBG , LH, free test etc which makes the whole picture. But no, 700 is not low at all :)

When it comes to testosterone, its very difficult. And many times TRT can do things worse than helping. In my case, TRT would worse sleep apnea and that would be horrible.

Some of my friends have very high test levels but they have problems with libido, mood etc.. (something i dont have any problems with). But it depends on human psyche :)
 
Danes said:
I have not misunderstood your post and actually my post was just a picture of my situation and nothing else :)
I just tried to say many times doctors can be idiots..

Honestly,
700ng/dl which is 24 nmol/L Is far from low and its above the average levels even for a guy in 20s but it does not really means test levels are great! There is other things such as SHBG , LH, free test etc which makes the whole picture. But no, 700 is not low at all :)
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my point!!!! i am glad to see we are on the same page!!!
 
thebigt said:
how can you say that...his post was totally irrelevant to the point i was making, geez!!!
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T, you don't seem to understand how TRT works and that is not your fault. You seem to have a poor physician and he is not educating you. You treat symptoms and support it with labs. You are stuck on this numbers topic and don't even realize what you are saying. My 700 levels are not high whatsoever and even if that were true, that is ideal for me and well within range. Stop thinking that you need to be just in range because of your age. That is a scared, uneducated thought process.

You need a real doctor that can work with you. Until you understand how TRT works we can talk in circles because you'll be stuck on this 700 number.

And what Danes said was accurate, warranting my response.
 
kisaj said:
T, you don't seem to understand how TRT works and that is not your fault. You seem to have a poor physician and he is not educating you. You treat symptoms and support it with labs. You are stuck on this numbers topic and don't even realize what you are saying. My 700 levels are not high whatsoever and even if that were true, that is ideal for me and well within range. Stop thinking that you need to be just in range because of your age. That is a scared, uneducated thought process.

You need a real doctor that can work with you. Until you understand how TRT works we can talk in circles because you'll be stuck on this 700 number.

And what Danes said was accurate, warranting my response.
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you are totally missing the boat, and it is your fault-you refuse to understand that not all of us have access to the professional care that you seem to have. i have been on trt for 6 years and have NEVER seen a endo!!! we live in a have/have-not world and this applies to medicine in particular. just because you are treated in the proper way, do not for one moment think that the vast majority of us have that luxury!!!!

i totally understand trt at least as well as you....but i am at the mercy of the care that is available to me....count your blessings, be happy you are so fortunate but don't lord it over those of us who take what we can get.
 
I'm really not missing anything. If you did understand how it works, you would be up in arms over what you are receiving and certainly not here on this thread making comments that appear ignorant about how this works. To try and make this about the level of treatment I receive ( and many others, BTW) is beyond ridiculous. To think and make statements about what I have worked out as appropriate protocol with my doctor (700 avg test levels) goes to show that you really don't understand or are fine with accepting an outdated, poor treatment.
 
kisaj said:
I'm really not missing anything. If you did understand how it works, you would be up in arms over what you are receiving and certainly not here on this thread making comments that appear ignorant about how this works. To try and make this about the level of treatment I receive ( and many others, BTW) is beyond ridiculous. To think and make statements about what I have worked out as appropriate protocol with my doctor (700 avg test levels) goes to show that you really don't understand or are fine with accepting an outdated, poor treatment.
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are you that f*ing stupid....of course i would love to have access to the kind of care you are getting, but that kind of care is not available to me and many others....you are fortunate to have that kind of care, be happy you don't have to accept the only care that is available to me!!!
 
I have seen different ways how ENDO do the work here in Norway.

Some of them barely give 100mg T weekly where some of them gives 400mg weekly even T levels was not sooo low TBH.

in norway , it depends on who you are and not how much you pay.
If your friend is Endo then you will get the best treatment .
 
thebigt said:
are you that f*ing stupid....of course i would love to have access to the kind of care you are getting, but that kind of care is not available to me and many others....you are fortunate to have that kind of care, be happy you don't have to accept the only care that is available to me!!!
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Forget this conversation, it's now just turned childish and I have no interest.
 
Danes said:
I have seen different ways how ENDO do the work here in Norway.

Some of them barely give 100mg T weekly where some of them gives 400mg weekly even T levels was not sooo low TBH.

in norway , it depends on who you are and not how much you pay.
If your friend is Endo then you will get the best treatment .
Click to expand...

in the U.S. everything is based on how much you pay!!!
 
kisaj said:
Forget this conversation, it's now just turned childish and I have no interest.
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the conversation is based on reality....the reality is the care YOU receive is not available to many of us. what is childish is your lack of understanding of how fortunate you are!!!
 
Danes said:
Feel sorry for this. I wish it was like here in norway. No matter how much or little u have of money you still get the best teatment.
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lol...not in america, my friend!!!
 
Danes said:
I am 31 and my total test is just
259 ng/dL which is pretty low, so in my case i should be on TRT actually..
my doc said " its nothing to worry about. You are almost in a normal range" . What??? He/she should deff ask me how i feel because this is pretty low.
It can lead to much issues having low test. Not for everyone but they should ask me how i feel.

I called endo and said my numbers then he said. You can get TRT anytime.
Even u feel great and it does not bother you, but maybe u have got used to it, going around with low t. If you increase it maybe you will get much better mood etc and then you will think "wow this is actually how i shoould feel"..

Apologize my bad english. I could tell this better if my english is better..

The truth is, to many doctors dont realize even you are in a normal range, it can be low for you, and enough for other
Click to expand...


Wouldn't that depend on the reference range used?
 
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