Better alternatives to LGD + MK-677

[HolyCannoli]

Brief background...
I was lifting casually but consistently for 10+yrs, all natural other than creatine. Life and kids happened so I faded from the gym for about 6-7yrs. Got skinny-fat and was 180-185lbs at 5'8", and easily 35+% BF. Got back to the gym at least 5days a week in 2022, recomped to 175lbs, did a run of LGD 5-10mg + enclo x 8wks + 4weeks PCT, and now at about 195lbs and probably somewhere in the 25-30% BF range.

So, at 195lb 25-30% BF, I started clen and planning to cut down to 180-ish (hoping that will get me to around 20%) At that point, I plan on doing another cycle of LGD. I had almost zero side effects throughout, so I was considering adding MK-677 to the cycle and eating in only a modest surplus of about 300cal. Goal would basically be to recomp.

Interested in hearing thoughts on this and/or alternatives to this plan.

 

[Smont]

You could use a real dose of lgd 25-50mg per day, or you could take testosterone. Real muscle is built over months and years. 4-6week oral cycles Don't really add any muscle in the long run. Maybe a few pounds here and there, but you don't keep it.Because all the guys who only use orals gain a little bit on cycle and shrink back down after cycle and just keep repeating the process.

Also recopmin Is the absolute slowest way possible to make progress

 

[Smont]

And recomping that 20% body fat.It would take you a year to see progress. You wanna diet to single digits and then worry about adding muscle. I know it's what you don't wanna hear. But it's the Stone cold truth and as soon as people realize that they start making progress. I spent a few years learning the hard way and so does everybody else.Usually but you could skip that nightmare by getting the word recomp out of your head. Now once you've gotten into shape recomping back to that shape is easy. But recoping your way to new progress is damn nearimpossible without boat loads of gear and a perfect diet/training program 24/7/365.

And the 300 Calorie surplus is not a slight surplus.That is a normal surplus for bulking.

 

[kira1357]

No need to use clen until you're sub 15% bf at most. Just keep cutting down to 10-12% and then think about if you want to do a bulking cycle. Much faster way to make long term progress than recomping. And get your test levels checked, now and after you finish cutting.

 

[Smont]

Mitoburn and recomp 20 or a non stim burner with a 200-300 cal defict that reduces as bodyweight reduces. If you stay on clen (i wouldnt use clen yet) keep the dose stupid low
40-50mcg. Ursolic acid i also felt had positive effects on bodycomp. You could swap the recomp 20 for a ursolic acid product. Or combine them if $$ isint a issue.

A good rate of fat loss is 2lbs per week, being over 20% i wouldnt mind seeing 3-5lbs a week in the first month.

Thats what i would have my fat loss guys do. Getting ppl to a healthy 14-16% bf is very simple with diet and cardio. At the 14-16% is where i tell guys to throw in the non stim burners and some gear, maybe a stim but coffee is good at this point. When guys wanna get sub 10-12%bf is where i would say bring in the stims and the drugs + gear. If gear is on the table.

 

[Hyde]

I agree with everything @Smont said.

That being said, I don’t think you need to necessarily be 12% bf to use dry anabolics. But they do always work better the leaner you are (fat has androgen receptors that gobble up your gear) and you will see the effects/physical changes so much better. Plus being leaner/lighter/healthier will help you suffer less side effects and also tolerate the health impacts better. Someone with good bloodwork before starting PEDs is going to have a shallower hole to climb out of after the course.

For your own longterm progress and gains, I would drop 15lbs first without gear. Spend 2-3 months doing that, turning up some cardio and tightening diet. Then you will be in better shape come summer, and when you add the LGD you will be able to show it off much better. Leaner from the dieting, more pumped from the gear, getting jacked.

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

^THIS

don’t do what I did last spring. Long hiatus from gym, work out 4 weeks and jump on something w out diet in check. You will look big in a hoodie or a t-shirt and like a fluffy mess w your shirt off.

listen to @Hyde and @Smont They r a pair of mad scientists in this game. They have both “been there, done that, got the t-shirt”

 

[HolyCannoli]

I really appreciate each response. I do realize recomping is like taking the scenic route from point A to B (that's probably what led me to make this post to begin with), but I think I needed to hear it more bluntly. Two years ago I was in a wierd position as far as body composition, but ultimately I felt like I really needed to gain back my strength so I just focused on diet and heavy lifting, with the plan to run the LGD before switching gears into a cut.

It sounds like the advice is to keep cutting. I'm much more comfortable continuing to cut now that my strength is improved. I don't have a problem sticking to a strict diet. I've been eating in a 300cal deficit and doing 20-30min cardio daily after lifting. So far losing 1.5-2lb/wk over the last 2wks, but maybe it should be more, especially considering that is with 20-40mcg clen daily?

@Smont can you elaborate on why you suggest stopping the clen? My guess is it may be more beneficial in a couple of months when I get closer to the mid-teens BF%? If that is the rationale, would another option be to continue the clen as intended (ramping to 80mcg over the next 2weeks), taking a 4week break, then restarting again when I get down to the lower BF % towards the end of my cut?

 

[Smont]

Just wanna throw out there that im a Advocate of do whatever da **** you want. I think everyone should within reason. Theres no rules to this stuff, theres just ways that work better then others. My reason for not using clen at higher bf% is because i have to assume someone with Higher body fat isn't particularly cardio fit. That dosent Apply to everyone but I do think it applies to many. Clen is hard on your heart. So thats the main reason. Honestly i dont like clen anyway cus it gives me muscle spasms and cramp up. But another reason i hate Seeing people use it way too early is because you only have so many playing cards you can use. If your using these things to get to 20% bodyfat, What are you gonna need to get down to 15%, what about if you wanna get shredded. Your gonna run out of tools really fast. You don't want to end up stuck at 18-20% needing clen to maintain it.

Think of your longterm Goal as a bunch of short term goals. Each time You accomplish one of those short-term goals, You're probably gonna need a little bit more of something to accomplish the next. If you drop the bomb on step 1 the Handgun won't seem very impressive on step 2. So you'll probably have to drop the bomb again, And again.

 

[HolyCannoli]

Just wanna throw out there that im a Advocate of do whatever da **** you want. I think everyone should within reason. Theres no rules to this stuff, theres just ways that work better then others. My reason for not using clen at higher bf% is because i have to assume someone with Higher body fat isn't particularly cardio fit. That dosent Apply to everyone but I do think it applies to many. Clen is hard on your heart. So thats the main reason. Honestly i dont like clen anyway cus it gives me muscle spasms and cramp up. But another reason i hate Seeing people use it way too early is because you only have so many playing cards you can use. If your using these things to get to 20% bodyfat, What are you gonna need to get down to 15%, what about if you wanna get shredded. Your gonna run out of tools really fast. You don't want to end up stuck at 18-20% needing clen to maintain it.

Think of your longterm Goal as a bunch of short term goals. Each time You accomplish one of those short-term goals, You're probably gonna need a little bit more of something to accomplish the next. If you drop the bomb on step 1 the Handgun won't seem very impressive on step 2. So you'll probably have to drop the bomb again, And again.

This does make a lot of sense. From a cardio standpoint, I think I'm pretty good. Even at my highest BF%, I was always doing some formal cardio a few times per week. My wife is into marathons so every few months I get dragged into a 10k or half marathon with minimal training for the run. I don't place, but I don't die either.

I'll probably just finish out the clen since I'm about halfway through the 4weeks I was planning, but again, the rationale makes sense and will definitely keep it in mind in the future.

 

[Jstrong20]

if you are 25-30 percent body fat check your blood glucose before messing with mk677. I like. It but it messes up a lot of peoples bg. If your borderline already it's a bad choice. Berberine should help with it in either scenario. As smont said up the dose. Or you could try out rad which is my favorite. Either way start at at least 20mgs. Others seem to disagree but at your body fat level recomping should be no problem with the right diet. I still like the idea of getting rid of the fat first then saving the anabolics for muscle building.