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Best supplement for strength output

purebred said:
Damn you. You're stimulating my interest in this product...
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If you're looking to grab some, there are a couple of great deals at NutraPlanet currently.

PRIME
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PRIME with DAA 3K ™, Agmatine 500 ™, 3-in-1 Shaker, and various samples.
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breezy11 said:
If you're looking to grab some, there are a couple of great deals at NutraPlanet currently.

PRIME
Invalid Link Removed

PRIME with DAA 3K ™, Agmatine 500 ™, 3-in-1 Shaker, and various samples.
Invalid Link Removed
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there ya go! wouldnt trade Prime for anything (that i have used)
 
I liked Natadrol and anabeta combined.
 
alwaysfirst said:
You get increase in strength from Alpha GPC?! I though that was for focus and mind..?
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But one has to ask where does strength emanate from in the body? . People often forget that the nervous system (central and somatic nervous) is the key for strength development. The nervous system is responsible for muscle contractions; The central nervous system relays signals from the brain to the somatic nervous system which in turn triggers muscle contractions . Halotestin is the number one compound for strength development but as a steroid it is a poor choice for size development . Halotestin's strength buliding properties stem from how it interacts with the nervous system

Alpha gpc is a precursor to acetylcholine which is the main neurotransmitter for the somatic nervous system . So more acetylcholine causes stronger contractions and in my experience delays fatigue causing muscles to contract for longer . I always feel like I can train harder and longer on Alpha GPC and recover quicker from strenuous strength and speed based workouts

Although I do dabble in bodybuilding primarily I'm an athlete and this what my training revolves around . Choline being used for strength development may be news to to the general fitness community, but in the athletic community its been used for many years . Bio Test have had there product on the market for a while now and Omega Sports Ultima has Alpha GPC in it as well . I always use Alpha GPC as part of a stack with other nootropic supplements, to achieve the synergy between cns and somatic system stimulation, amongst a whole host of other ergogenic and nootropic benefits.

From my experience and with my some what limited knowledge I truly believe that boosting acetylcholine is a great way to supplement strength development wither the athlete is natural or chemically enhanced . Looking forward to being able to experiment with Versa-1, Enhanced and the NSA the new product coming soon form Evomuse, for me as an athlete its really exciting that more supplement companies are choosing to explore this area
 
Synthesis said:
But one has to ask where does strength emanate from in the body? . People often forget that the nervous system (central and somatic nervous) is the key for strength development. The nervous system is responsible for muscle contractions; The central nervous system relays signals from the brain to the somatic nervous system which in turn triggers muscle contractions . Halotestin is the number one compound for strength development but as a steroid it is a poor choice for size development . Halotestin's strength buliding properties stem from how it interacts with the nervous system

Alpha gpc is a precursor to acetylcholine which is the main neurotransmitter for the somatic nervous system . So more acetylcholine causes stronger contractions and in my experience delays fatigue causing muscles to contract for longer . I always feel like I can train harder and longer on Alpha GPC and recover quicker from strenuous strength and speed based workouts

Although I do dabble in bodybuilding primarily I'm an athlete and this what my training revolves around . Choline being used for strength development may be news to to the general fitness community, but in the athletic community its been used for many years . Bio Test have had there product on the market for a while now and Omega Sports Ultima has Alpha GPC in it as well . I always use Alpha GPC as part of a stack with other nootropic supplements, to achieve the synergy between cns and somatic system stimulation, amongst a whole host of other ergogenic and nootropic benefits.

From my experience and with my some what limited knowledge I truly believe that boosting acetylcholine is a great way to supplement strength development wither the athlete is natural or chemically enhanced . Looking forward to being able to experiment with Versa-1, Enhanced and the NSA the new product coming soon form Evomuse, for me as an athlete its really exciting that more supplement companies are choosing to explore this area
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great post mate
 
Synthesis said:
But one has to ask where does strength emanate from in the body? . People often forget that the nervous system (central and somatic nervous) is the key for strength development. The nervous system is responsible for muscle contractions; The central nervous system relays signals from the brain to the somatic nervous system which in turn triggers muscle contractions . Halotestin is the number one compound for strength development but as a steroid it is a poor choice for size development . Halotestin's strength buliding properties stem from how it interacts with the nervous system

Alpha gpc is a precursor to acetylcholine which is the main neurotransmitter for the somatic nervous system . So more acetylcholine causes stronger contractions and in my experience delays fatigue causing muscles to contract for longer . I always feel like I can train harder and longer on Alpha GPC and recover quicker from strenuous strength and speed based workouts

Although I do dabble in bodybuilding primarily I'm an athlete and this what my training revolves around . Choline being used for strength development may be news to to the general fitness community, but in the athletic community its been used for many years . Bio Test have had there product on the market for a while now and Omega Sports Ultima has Alpha GPC in it as well . I always use Alpha GPC as part of a stack with other nootropic supplements, to achieve the synergy between cns and somatic system stimulation, amongst a whole host of other ergogenic and nootropic benefits.

From my experience and with my some what limited knowledge I truly believe that boosting acetylcholine is a great way to supplement strength development wither the athlete is natural or chemically enhanced . Looking forward to being able to experiment with Versa-1, Enhanced and the NSA the new product coming soon form Evomuse, for me as an athlete its really exciting that more supplement companies are choosing to explore this area
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Great info, thanks!
 
Synthesis said:
So more acetylcholine causes stronger contractions and in my experience delays fatigue causing muscles to contract for longer . I always feel like I can train harder and longer on Alpha GPC and recover quicker from strenuous strength and speed based workouts
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Unfortunately that theory has been thoroughly tested (in the 70's/early 80's when this a new idea) and proven to be untrue. Increasing acetylcholine availability at the NJM from baseline in a normal individual does not increase strength or power. Prolonged exposure to Ach and you actually have sensitization.
 
lronFist said:
Unfortunately that theory has been thoroughly tested (in the 70's/early 80's when this a new idea) and proven to be untrue. Increasing acetylcholine availability at the NJM from baseline in a normal individual does not increase strength or power. Prolonged exposure to Ach and you actually have sensitization.
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lronFist said:
Now I know why you are full of so much BS.
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Jump off your high horse mate . I'm not claiming to be an authority on this stuff . I do not have or claim to have the understanding that guys like you and Coop have on these subjects . What I do have is real life experience which I try to match up with science . If you think I'm misinterpreting the science please by all means put me straight . I'm expressing my thoughts and observations here, not complying a study . So please take my thoughts with a pinch of salt

Not everyone has an agenda on here I mentioned Versa-1 because contains CDP-Choline a form of Choline I have never tried . Combined with a novel nootropic . Check my post history I've mentioned products by so many companies so get the hell out of here with those kind of baseless accusations . What your gonna accuse me of next owning a supplement store?

Please tell me what is the role of acetylcholine in the somatic nervous system? Please explain to us all what role the somatic nervous system plays in motor control? I find it hilarious that you would think that increasing levels of the main neurotransmitter responsible for motor control would have no positive effect on the quality of ones motor control . So I think you need to look through the hundred of thousands of studies at your finger tips and work this one out for us omniscient almighty one
 
Synthesis said:
Please tell me what is the role of acetylcholine in the somatic nervous system? Please explain to us all what role the somatic nervous system plays in motor control? I find it hilarious that you would think that increasing levels of the main neurotransmitter responsible for motor control would have no positive effect on the quality of ones motor control . So I think you need to look through the hundred of thousands of studies at your finger tips and work this one out for us omniscient almighty one
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CDP-Choline has been available for years and none of the outrageous claims were made until it was thrown in USPlabs garbage.

And although Ach is intimately involved in voluntary muscle control, as I've tried to explain since post #50, increasing the levels of Ach from baseline do not enhance strength or power. This subject has been explored ad naseum and has been put to rest (20+ years ago). You are trying to resuscitate a corpse.

Here is a study on normal individuals where they significantly increased NMJ-Ach with pyridostigmine:
Electrodiagnostic studies, including nerve conduction, electromyography, and response to repetitive stimulation, were carried out on four subjects of the treatment group and on two subjects of the placebo group, both before and during treatment (eighth day). Isometric handgrip strength, isokinetic elbow flexor, and extensor strength did not differ between groups as a result of the treatment. Knee flexor and extensor isokinetic strength showed a small (but statistically significant) trend to improve more during placebo treatment, whereas knee extensor endurance decreased slightly in the placebo group.
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I can't post links, but here is the text: The influence of pyridostigmine administration on human neuromuscular functions--studies in healthy human subjects (1991).
 
lronFist said:
Unfortunately that theory has been thoroughly tested (in the 70's/early 80's when this a new idea) and proven to be untrue. Increasing acetylcholine availability at the NJM from baseline in a normal individual does not increase strength or power. Prolonged exposure to Ach and you actually have sensitization.
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Only so much Ach can be fed through the "pipe" at a time..And thus a larger "pool" of it really doesn't do much for the efficiency of action at the NMJ. If you could expand the size of the pipe than maybe we'd have something.. Am I correct here?

edit: By pipe I'm referring to the pre-synaptic cleft

I'd think that in order to see a performance benefit, you'd have to first address the resting membrane potential and its associated depolarization before we even get to talking about Ach
 
mcc23 said:
Only so much Ach can be fed through the "pipe" at a time..And thus a larger "pool" of it really doesn't do much for the efficiency of action at the NMJ. If you could expand the size of the pipe than maybe we'd have something.. Am I correct here?

edit: By pipe I'm referring to the pre-synaptic cleft

I'd think that in order to see a performance benefit, you'd have to first address the resting membrane potential and its associated depolarization before we even get to talking about Ach
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Manipulating Ach does not result in a performance benefit for normal individuals. On the neuronal level, the speed of the action potential through conservation of signal (conduction insulation) is certainly a variable for strength or power, but has nothing to do with acetylcholine. The largest factors in strength and power are on the level of the muscle fiber: # of units activated, et cetra.
 
lronFist said:
Manipulating Ach does not result in a performance benefit for normal individuals. On the neuronal level, the speed of the action potential through conservation of signal (conduction insulation) is certainly a variable for strength or power, but has nothing to do with acetylcholine. The largest factors in strength and power are on the level of the muscle fiber: # of units activated, et cetra.
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Well that's why I was saying before we begin discussing the involvement of Ach (though manipulating it has no beneficial effect) that the best way to improve strength/power output would be to assure that the NMJ environment is optimal.. Therefore to address the initial question about the best supplements for maximizing muscle contraction power, speed et cetra would be to make sure that the electrolytes are in proper balance within the cell, the # of fibers that each axon innervates, and the size of those fibers..Also the fiber type, being IIa IIb IIx, etc.
 
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