Best PCT protocol

Sam1.

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hi, tomorrow i ll start my pct 23 days after my last pin (test 500mg per week, 2 injections per week), i would really like to hear your opinions if it could be better just one serm or a clomid + nolva mix is a better option ... . I ll decide between 2 options:
1) only nolva 10/10/10/10/10/10
2) nolva 10/10/10/10/10/10 clomid 25/25/25 / 12.5
 
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Whisky

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Personally I would go option 2. If just using Nolva I would start at 20mg for a couple of weeks.

imo there isn’t really a ‘right’ answer as to what is optimal. You have the fundementals (I.e a serm) in place and you’ve waited a reasonable amount of time after last pin (I assume cyp or e?) so you could get a few answers here and they could all be ok
 

Sam1.

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Personalmente opterei per l'opzione 2. Se usassi solo Nolva, inizierei con 20 mg per un paio di settimane.

imo non c'è davvero una risposta "giusta" su ciò che è ottimale. Hai i fondamenti (cioè un serm) a posto e hai aspettato un ragionevole lasso di tempo dopo l'ultimo pin (presumo cyp o e?) In modo da poter ottenere alcune risposte qui e potrebbero essere tutte ok
[/CITAZIONE]

i have done enanthate...
 
KvanH

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exactly i m italian :D ahhaha
Did you see Vettori fight last night?

About the pct, some like to stack Clomid and Nolva, but many just choose one they prefer.

For Clomid 25/25/25/25 would be pretty typical. You could start with 50 for the first week or two and you could also extend it to 5 or 6 weeks, if wanted. Tough to give any "best" protocol.

For Nolva 20/20/20/20 would be pretty typical. Some do 20/20/10/10 and the same options for extending it a week or two or going higher at the start apply.

Clomid is better for hpta restart in theory, but in practice both seem to work just fine. Nolva protects from possible gyno issues and Clomid does not. Clomid is known to induce undesired mental sides for some users (not everyone feels anything), but any serm has the ability to make you feel not so great, it's user dependent.

Here's an oldish thread, but a pretty good summary and some discussion on the topic:

 
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Sam1.

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O
Hai visto Vettori litigare ieri sera?

Per quanto riguarda il pct, ad alcuni piace impilare Clomid e Nolva, ma molti scelgono semplicemente quello che preferiscono.

Per Clomid 25/25/25/25 sarebbe abbastanza tipico. Potresti iniziare con 50 per la prima settimana o due e potresti anche estenderlo a 5 o 6 settimane, se lo desideri. Difficile dare qualsiasi protocollo "migliore".

Per Nolva 20/20/20/20 sarebbe abbastanza tipico. Alcuni lo fanno 20/20/10/10 e si applicano le stesse opzioni per estenderlo di una settimana o due o aumentare all'inizio.

Clomid è meglio per il riavvio di HPTA in teoria , ma in pratica entrambi sembrano funzionare bene. Nolva protegge da possibili problemi ginecologici e Clomid no. Clomid è noto per indurre lati mentali indesiderati per alcuni utenti (non tutti sentono nulla), ma qualsiasi serm ha la capacità di farti sentire non così grande, è dipendente dall'utente.

Ecco un thread vecchio, ma un riassunto abbastanza buono e alcune discussioni sull'argomento:

[/CITAZIONE]
Did you see Vettori fight last night?

About the pct, some like to stack Clomid and Nolva, but many just choose one they prefer.

For Clomid 25/25/25/25 would be pretty typical. You could start with 50 for the first week or two and you could also extend it to 5 or 6 weeks, if wanted. Tough to give any "best" protocol.

For Nolva 20/20/20/20 would be pretty typical. Some do 20/20/10/10 and the same options for extending it a week or two or going higher at the start apply.

Clomid is better for hpta restart in theory, but in practice both seem to work just fine. Nolva protects from possible gyno issues and Clomid does not. Clomid is known to induce undesired mental sides for some users (not everyone feels anything), but any serm has the ability to make you feel not so great, it's user dependent.

Here's an oldish thread, but pretty good summary and some discussion on the topic:

o
Hai visto Vettori litigare ieri sera?

Per quanto riguarda il pct, ad alcuni piace impilare Clomid e Nolva, ma molti scelgono semplicemente quello che preferiscono.

Per Clomid 25/25/25/25 sarebbe abbastanza tipico. Potresti iniziare con 50 per la prima settimana o due e potresti anche estenderlo a 5 o 6 settimane, se lo desideri. Difficile dare qualsiasi protocollo "migliore".

Per Nolva 20/20/20/20 sarebbe abbastanza tipico. Alcuni lo fanno 20/20/10/10 e si applicano le stesse opzioni per estenderlo di una settimana o due o aumentare all'inizio.

Clomid è meglio per il riavvio di HPTA in teoria , ma in pratica entrambi sembrano funzionare bene. Nolva protegge da possibili problemi ginecologici e Clomid no. Clomid è noto per indurre lati mentali indesiderati per alcuni utenti (non tutti sentono nulla), ma qualsiasi serm ha la capacità di farti sentire non così grande, è dipendente dall'utente.

Ecco un thread vecchio, ma un riassunto abbastanza buono e alcune discussioni sull'argomento:

[/CITAZIONE]
/10
Did you see Vettori fight last night?

About the pct, some like to stack Clomid and Nolva, but many just choose one they prefer.

For Clomid 25/25/25/25 would be pretty typical. You could start with 50 for the first week or two and you could also extend it to 5 or 6 weeks, if wanted. Tough to give any "best" protocol.

For Nolva 20/20/20/20 would be pretty typical. Some do 20/20/10/10 and the same options for extending it a week or two or going higher at the start apply.

Clomid is better for hpta restart in theory, but in practice both seem to work just fine. Nolva protects from possible gyno issues and Clomid does not. Clomid is known to induce undesired mental sides for some users (not everyone feels anything), but any serm has the ability to make you feel not so great, it's user dependent.

Here's an oldish thread, but a pretty good summary and some discussion on the topic:

Ok, i ll do nolvadex 20/10/10/10/10/10 clomid 0/25/25/25/12,5 the First week i ll use only nolvadex in order to see how my body feel only nolvadex and After i ll ADD clomid, in this way i can understand which serm is giving problems, Is It right?
 
KvanH

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O


Ok, i ll do nolvadex 20/10/10/10/10/10 clomid 0/25/25/25/12,5 the First week i ll use only nolvadex in order to see how my body feel only nolvadex and After i ll ADD clomid, in this way i can understand which serm is giving problems, Is It right?
I have never stacked serms myself, but I think that would be ok.
 
KvanH

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Do you use Always both? (Nolva + clomid)? Dosage? Bloods during PCT?
By "never stacked" I meant no, I have never used both. I actually have only used Nolva, never tried Clomid. Yes I have taken bloods before, during and after pct. 4 weeks of Nolva at 20 mg has taken my test levels from very low to higher, than I normally have.
 

Sam1.

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By "never stacked" I meant no, I have never used both. I actually have only used Nolva, never tried Clomid. Yes I have taken bloods before, during and after pct. 4 weeks of Nolva at 20 mg has taken my test levels from very low to higher, than I normally have.
Oww awesome...how much weeks After last pin do you usually start nolvadex?
 
KvanH

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Oww awesome...how much weeks After last pin do you usually start nolvadex?
I've only done orals and transdermals, thus far. But the 23 days you have now after your last pin should be fine to start, if you'll do 6 weeks of pct.
 
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Whisky

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I’ve used nolva solo, clomid solo and both together bro. Whilst they’ve all worked fine your pct protocol needs to take into account both your actual cycle (how suppressive and how long for example) and your individual response to compounds (both the anabolics and the serms).

some people find clomid harsh on sides, others don’t get that suppressed off certain compounds and don’t need as much in pct.

just too many variables person to person for anyone to tell you what will work best for you.

generally speaking though, most people would recover fine from a 8 week andro cycle with a 20/20/10/10 nolva pct whereas that probably wouldn’t be enough if you’d done 16 weeks test, some trest ace last 6 and androl throughout for example.

also worth noting that the duration of your pct should relate to the compounds you’ve run, so in your case test e with its approx 7 day half life will take 35 days (on average) to clear to insignificant amounts (I.e an amount where your natural production can kick back in). Some will clear quicker but others can be longer so you should be running a 6 week pct when starting 23 days after just to make sure it covers the period where things can happen if that makes sense (orals clear way quicker so no need for that safety net).
 

Sam1.

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Ho usato Nolva Solo, Clomid Solo ed entrambi insieme fratello. Sebbene abbiano funzionato tutti bene, il tuo protocollo PCT deve prendere in considerazione sia il tuo ciclo effettivo (quanto soppressivo e quanto tempo, ad esempio) sia la tua risposta individuale ai composti (sia gli anabolizzanti che i sermi).

alcune persone trovano il clomid duro sui lati, altri non lo ottengono soppresso da alcuni composti e non hanno bisogno di tanto in PCT.

solo troppe variabili da persona a persona perché chiunque possa dirti cosa funzionerà meglio per te.

in generale, però, la maggior parte delle persone si riprenderebbe bene da un ciclo andro di 8 settimane con un 20/20/10/10 nolva pct, mentre probabilmente non sarebbe sufficiente se avessi fatto un test di 16 settimane, alcuni trest ace last 6 e androl in tutto per esempio.

also worth noting that the duration of your pct should relate to the compounds you’ve run, so in your case test e with its approx 7 day half life will take 35 days (on average) to clear to insignificant amounts (I.e an amount where your natural production can kick back in). Some will clear quicker but others can be longer so you should be running a 6 week pct when starting 23 days after just to make sure it covers the period where things can happen if that makes sense (orals clear way quicker so no need for that safety net).
SO, what would you suggest for a 16 week enanthate cycle?
 
Whisky

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SO, what would you suggest for a 16 week enanthate cycle?
on the basis that I get no sides from clomid or nolva (well I didn’t when I used to pct) and 16 weeks is a reasonably long time to be suppressed I would personally run clomid at 25 for 6 weeks and nolva at 20 for 4 weeks followed by 10 for 2 weeks
 

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toremaifene is a way better updated version of nolva

toremaifene + hcg or toremafene alone
 

Sam1.

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toremaifene is a way better updated version of nolva

toremaifene + hcg or toremafene alone
I m sure this Is wrong, don t use hcg during PCT It shutdown LH...I ve used HCG 500U.I 3X week during 23 days between last injection and start serm
 
KvanH

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I m sure this Is wrong, don t use hcg during PCT It shutdown LH...I ve used HCG 500U.I 3X week during 23 days between last injection and start serm
You are correct. That's the right way of using it while the test clears. Or even better would be to use throughout the cycle.
 
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Sam1.

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You are correct. That's the right way of using it while the test clears. Or even better would be to use a small dose throughout the cycle.
I have DAA on hand, would you use It now or Better wait another week, 30 days After last pin?
 
KvanH

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I have DAA on hand, would you use It now or Better wait another week, 30 days After last pin?
Well I would never use DAA myself. I don't think it does much if anything. In one study the users measured some rise in test levels for the first 12 days and then levels dropped quickly back. In another study it actually lowered test levels. But some people say it can be beneficial when you have low test levels for some reason, like in pct. So yeah I don't know. Use it when you see fit, if you want to use it. I doubt it makes any difference in your recovery though.
 

Sam1.

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Well I would never use DAA myself. I don't think it does much if anything. In one study the users measured some rise in test levels for the first 12 days and then levels dropped quickly back. In another study it actually lowered test levels. But some people say it can be beneficial when you have low test levels for some reason, like in pct. So yeah I don't know. Use it when you see fit, if you want to use it. I doubt it makes any difference in your recovery though.
I ll use It only 2 weeks 3g a day
 

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5000 of hcg 3x per week is high!!!! HCG converts to estrogen crazy bad make sure to take an AI
 

spimx

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HCG before or after your last pin I usualy dont care much. Before your last pin is fine. Toremaphine is definately better than nolva, less sides and more effective. Torem can be found at mike arnold
 
Whisky

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5000 of hcg 3x per week is high!!!! HCG converts to estrogen crazy bad make sure to take an AI
pretty sure he said 500?

but 5000 iu 3x a week for 1-2 weeks before starting a serm is a pretty standard protocol for hcg use if you don’t use in on cycle (which is my personal preference)
 
bill86

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I’ve never used anabolics, so maybe I’m out of the loop, but is 40/40/20/20 not the standard for Nolva anymore? I used to research a lot because I wanted to try something (never did) and it seemed like almost all protocols had Nolva at 40 for at least the first week. Is this no longer considered the most efficient?
 

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Op have you used hcg? From experience its very important as it keeps your testes primed for when serms are introduced.

I always vouch for its use on cycle at a loe dose or at least for like 4 weeks leading to serms.

Secondly, as far as se rms go, i find 10mg nolva and 25mg clomid a day to be more than enough. 3 weeks into pct after having been on for 6 months (yes, 6 months) my natural test was 790 ng/dl using this protocol.
 

Sam1.

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Op hai usato hcg? Per esperienza è molto importante in quanto mantiene i tuoi testicoli pronti per quando vengono introdotti i sermi.

Garantisco sempre per il suo utilizzo in ciclo a una dose di loe o almeno per tipo 4 settimane che portano ai serm.

In secondo luogo, per quanto riguarda i se rms, trovo che 10 mg di nolva e 25 mg di clomid al giorno siano più che sufficienti. 3 settimane nel PCT dopo essere stato in terapia per 6 mesi (sì, 6 mesi) il mio test naturale è stato di 790 ng/dl utilizzando questo protocollo.
[/CITAZIONE]
i ve used hcg 500u.i 2x week (5 weeks in total/3 weeks leading to pct) after i m using 10mg novladex
 
Bigmatt57

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I’ve never used anabolics, so maybe I’m out of the loop, but is 40/40/20/20 not the standard for Nolva anymore? I used to research a lot because I wanted to try something (never did) and it seemed like almost all protocols had Nolva at 40 for at least the first week. Is this no longer considered the most efficient?
Used to see that a lot as well, as well as Clomid doses of like 100+. I believe that was sort of a “bro science” thing back in the day. Sort of like when people would say the minimum you need to run your test at is 500mg lol.

I believe once people started to see the blood work of 20mg compared to 40mg or 50mg compared to 100mg, peoples minds changed cause the difference wasn’t that substantial along with the sides effects of the drugs really start to peak at those dosages.
 

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