Best "non-jittery" pre-workout supplement?

Aeternitatis said:
This is what I make for my clients and take myself:

ALCAR 4.7g
L-tyrosine 2.5g
Betaine 890mg
Choline bitartrate 480
Choline citrate 420
Glucuronolactone 830mg
Caffeine 150mg
Emer-gen-C 1.6g (168mg mineral ascorbates)
Ascorbic acid 37mg

Add in a B-complex and you're gold. I make mine sour pineapple-orange flavor.
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Where do you get your flavoring? Have you found some which is not 100% artficial? The alchemist within me has been awoken and I want to make myself a mix along the lines of what you and meathead have posted

Has anyone tried aniracetam?
 
AcuDoc said:
Where do you get your flavoring? Have you found some which is not 100% artficial? The alchemist within me has been awoken and I want to make myself a mix along the lines of what you and meathead have posted

Has anyone tried aniracetam?
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I used True Protein .com flavors orange and pineapple which are natural and artificial. Mix these with some orange Emer'gen-C and citric acid and it works very well. I think today I just found the perfect ratio actually. Here it is:

(1 serving)
1g betaine
1g choline bitartrate/citrate
2.5g ALCAR
2g L-tyrosine
800mg glucuronolactone
75mg caffeine

And the real magic was in the flavor which was:

1 packet orange Emer'gen-C
170mg flavor (50% orange and 50% pineapple)
1.5 teaspoons sucrose
1 oz. Glycerine

This mix was by far the best tasting one I had ever had. It was actually refreshing. I used about 10-15oz of water with it. Obviously, the glycerine is a bit sweet so if you omit that add a bit more sucrose.

Oh, and here's a nice place for flavors Invalid Link Removed
 
Aeternitatis said:
I used True Protein .com flavors orange and pineapple which are natural and artificial. Mix these with some orange Emer'gen-C and citric acid and it works very well. I think today I just found the perfect ratio actually. Here it is:

(1 serving)
1g betaine
1g choline bitartrate/citrate
2.5g ALCAR
2g L-tyrosine
800mg glucuronolactone
75mg caffeine

And the real magic was in the flavor which was:

1 packet orange Emer'gen-C
170mg flavor (50% orange and 50% pineapple)
1.5 teaspoons sucrose
1 oz. Glycerine

This mix was by far the best tasting one I had ever had. It was actually refreshing. I used about 10-15oz of water with it. Obviously, the glycerine is a bit sweet so if you omit that add a bit more sucrose.

Oh, and here's a nice place for flavors Invalid Link Removed
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Thanks for the formula and the info on the flavors. One more ?, how does APC compare to reg. choline citrate/bitartrate?
 
alpha-GPC has much more profound nootropic effects where choline citrate is basically just to keep the choline stores peaked when using things like ALCAR. You notice it when you take alpha-gpc but I don't know if the cost is really worth it. You still have to take about a 1 gram to an effect and I think it costs about $1 per gram. That aint cheep.

Another interesting thing is that plain old lecithin is a way more effecient source of choline than either citrate or bitartrate and yet it is cheap as dirt. I would just use lecithin if it would dissolve in my drink. Did you know that lecithin comes out as waste sludge from the processesing of soybeans? It's interesting how we make use of such waste products as lecithin and whey.

Oh, and choline citrate is better absorbed than bitartrate.
 
Aeternitatis said:
Another interesting thing is that plain old lecithin is a way more effecient source of choline than either citrate or bitartrate and yet it is cheap as dirt. I would just use lecithin if it would dissolve in my drink. Did you know that lecithin comes out as waste sludge from the processesing of soybeans? It's interesting how we make use of such waste products as lecithin and whey.

Oh, and choline citrate is better absorbed than bitartrate.
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Interesting... I can get soy lecithin real cheap almost anywhere. What's the dose of lecithine that u recommend?

Is choline = phosphatidyl serine?
 
Aeternitatis said:
alpha-GPC has much more profound nootropic effects where choline citrate is basically just to keep the choline stores peaked when using things like ALCAR. You notice it when you take alpha-gpc but I don't know if the cost is really worth it. You still have to take about a 1 gram to an effect and I think it costs about $1 per gram. That aint cheep.

Another interesting thing is that plain old lecithin is a way more effecient source of choline than either citrate or bitartrate and yet it is cheap as dirt. I would just use lecithin if it would dissolve in my drink. Did you know that lecithin comes out as waste sludge from the processesing of soybeans? It's interesting how we make use of such waste products as lecithin and whey.

Oh, and choline citrate is better absorbed than bitartrate.
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Thanks for the reply. I just ordered a bunch of powders from 1fast and CNW. I'm going with the APC since the cost is not a problem for me. I'll let you know how I like it.

I went to Trueprotein and found they had natural flavorings sweetened with stevia. I was very happy to see that and as per your recipe, got orange and pineapple. Can't wait mixing it up. Thanks again to you and meathead for the heads up on that stuff. I'll see how it compares to my methylcolbalmin.
 
Syr said:
Interesting... I can get soy lecithin real cheap almost anywhere. What's the dose of lecithine that u recommend?

Is choline = phosphatidyl serine?
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I would just add a tablespoon of lecithin to your protein shake. No more or you risk smelling like fish.

The choline from lecithin is in the form of phosphatidyl choline. The p. serine is something different but also good for the mind and body (expensive though).
 
Aeternitatis said:
I would just add a tablespoon of lecithin to your protein shake. No more or you risk smelling like fish.

The choline from lecithin is in the form of phosphatidyl choline. The p. serine is something different but also good for the mind and body (expensive though).
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Thank you. I found and ordered Betaine and Lecithin. Couldnt find bulk powders, so its caps. The lecithin should not be gross like the one i see in bottles in herb stores.
I'll be dosing 1 gram of Betaine HCL and 2,4 grams of lecithin pre-workout.
I decided to not add ALCAR for now, since i'm taking 3g ED of carnitine-tartarate. MAYBE 1g only added just pre or post-workout would be useful, but it seems a waste to me now.

Tell me what do you think of this:

Pre-Workout:
5g taurine
1g betaine HCL
2,4g lecithin
3g CEX (currently i'm off this)

Post-Workout:
5g taurine
1g vit C
glucosamine/msm/chronidotin (dont remember but its double the recommended dosage)
Glucophase XR (1 cap)
 
meathead1987 said:
Looks ok. Not sure 2.4g lecithin will do much. I use 35g a day.
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the caps are 1200mg each. I dont know yet what's exactly inside. Maybe i'll take 3-4...
 
I don't see why it wouldn't. AMP is a constituent of the flower geranium which is widely used. It stimulates the adrenal cortex and leads to epinephrine release similar to ephedrine.
 
Syr said:
the caps are 1200mg each. I dont know yet what's exactly inside. Maybe i'll take 3-4...
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You should definitely look for lecithin granules. Some grocery stores carry them in the refrigerated section. Take a tablespoon a day of those if you can get them.
 
Thanks for the info Meathead and Aeternitatis. I've got my powders coming and will try this out;

5g Taurine
2g ALCAR
2g Tyrosine
1g Alpha GPC
1g Betaine
1g Glucuronolactone
1 Packet of Emergen-C
Flavoring of Sour apple, Pineapple or Orange (got all 3 coming to see which I like.

I'll take this preworkout on an empty stomach. Any need for this post workout? Or is 1x day (early AM) fine.
 
I would just take it preworkout and on off days have it the am if you need a boost. Keep in mind that the Emer'gen-C goes a ways towards helping with flavor, but you're still going to have to add stevia and a little sucrose.

And since you're taking PowerSwede's advice about vit C, the emergenC fits in well. That was one of the reasons I decided to add it myself.
 
AcuDoc said:
Thanks for the info Meathead and Aeternitatis. I've got my powders coming and will try this out;

5g Taurine
2g ALCAR
2g Tyrosine
1g Alpha GPC
1g Betaine
1g Glucuronolactone
1 Packet of Emergen-C
Flavoring of Sour apple, Pineapple or Orange (got all 3 coming to see which I like.

I'll take this preworkout on an empty stomach. Any need for this post workout? Or is 1x day (early AM) fine.
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I take another 5g of taurine post-workout.
Also anti-oxidants are best taken after working out. So i would move that vitamin C.
 
Syr said:
I take another 5g of taurine post-workout.
Also anti-oxidants are best taken after working out. So i would move that vitamin C.
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The Vit-c is essential for a good flavor. Believe me on this. If you look at various fruit flavored candies you'll find that most have something in common; the addition of ascorbic acid and/or citric acid.
 
Aeternitatis said:
The Vit-c is essential for a good flavor. Believe me on this. If you look at various fruit flavored candies you'll find that most have something in common; the addition of ascorbic acid and/or citric acid.
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DOH!
All kind of vit c stuff here has an horrible taste for me. Thanks god the one in the joint syrup is good enough.
But i can understand u that u need more flavour to the mix. I think it'll be fine, maybe try a slow release C.
 
Syr said:
I take another 5g of taurine post-workout.
Also anti-oxidants are best taken after working out. So i would move that vitamin C.
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Excellent, another 5g of Taurine with some Emergen-C will be taken post workout. Thanks
 
AcuDoc said:
Excellent, another 5g of Taurine with some Emergen-C will be taken post workout. Thanks
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Taurine is tasteless, you dont need the Emergen-C, if you take enough pre-WO, if not split the dose like 1g pre and 1g post.
 
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