best non-hormonal supp/product you have ever used?

[OmarJackson]

what is the best non-hormonal supplement you guys have ever used?

for me it has to be plain bulk CEE the first ever time i used it, its effects have diminished each time i have used it after the first, even when cycling off for periods of time. But that first time... oh boy. it rocked.

i'm kind of looking into getting crea-ethyl-thunder, see if that is even better than CEE by itself.

 

[TheTom]

Citrulline Malate and Alcar each @ 5grams a day, will drastically increase most lifters physical+mental performance.

Definitely blew me away.

 

[Aeternitatis]

X-Factor hands down.

 

[wojo]

kre-alkalyn..regular cm never worked for me..just a tip if u gonna run alcar that high use some antioxidants..as alcar can become pro-free radical..its in the monster anarchy stack thread..i posted it

 

[OmarJackson]

X-Factor hands down.

I'm unfamiliar with this product.

could you elaborate some on this. for what purpose you used it, gains, any sides, etc.

or do you have a log somewhere?

 

[chasec]

ergopharm AMP

 

[Beowulf]

BCAAs w/ Citruline Malate

Saves the muscle and maintains energy while cutting.

I'm about to find out what it does when bulking.

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

I have to agree with the CEE but the others sound interesting.

 

[jaymode]

CreEthyl Thunder, I was amazed at how much strength I gained in such a short period of time.

 

[Beast]

BCAAs w/ Citruline Malate

I'm about to find out what it does when bulking.

BCAA + Citrulline + Creatine is an awesome stack. Really all you need performance/growth wise.

 

[OmarJackson]

BCAA + Citrulline + Creatine is an awesome stack. Really all you need performance/growth wise.

cool. mind sharing the dosing/timing protocol.

i assume all three pre-workout, standard dosages. and the BCAA's several times a day at 10-20g or so?

 

[Beast]

cool. mind sharing the dosing/timing protocol.

i assume all three pre-workout, standard dosages. and the BCAA's several times a day at 10-20g or so?

Depending on when you workout:
Breakfast: 5+ grams BCAA + 2.5 grams creatine*#
Pre-Workout: 10-15 grams BCAA + 2.5 grams creatine* + 3 grams Citrulline Malate
Post-Workout: 10-15 grams BCAA + 2.5 grams creatine* + 3 grams Citrulline Malate
Bedtime: 5+ grams BCAA + 2.5 grams creatine*#


Xtend already has Citrulline Malate in it, so if you use that, I would do:
Breakfast: 2 Scoops (7 grams BCAA + 1 gram CM) + 2.5 grams creatine*#
Pre-Workout: 3 Scoops (10.5 grams BCAA + 1.5 grams CM) + 2.5 grams creatine*
Post-Workout: 3 Scoops (10.5 grams BCAA + 1.5 grams CM) + 2.5 grams creatine*
Bedtime: 2 Scoops (7 grams BCAA + 1 gram CM) + 2.5 grams creatine*#

So you would be taking 5 total servings of Xtend (35 grams BCAA and 5 grams Citulline Malate)

*Creatine monohydrate dosing
#Optional

 

[Odessa14]

Derek...
Are you not a fan of CEE? Also, have you ever heard anything negative about taking Creatine and BCAAs at the same time?

Thanks

 

[Beast]

Derek...
Are you not a fan of CEE? Also, have you ever heard anything negative about taking Creatine and BCAAs at the same time?

Thanks

There should be no negative effect taking BCAA and creatine at the same time.

I've tried CEE on two occasions. The first time I used VPX's CEX and I didn't notice anything. The second time I used ALRI's CEE caps and was making great strength gains. I am going to start using CEE next week (ALRI's CEE) so I can elaborate more then. As of right now though, I do no think CEE is worth the extra cost over creatine monohydrate.

 

[Odessa14]

Sounds good...I like your plan detailed here....I want to give it a run, I'll start stocking up...

Since Im loaded with CEE right now, I'll most likely be using it. The only alteration I will prob make will be changing the CM dose from 3 Pre and 3 Post to just 6 pre. I like how you have the creatine split up throughout the day. I will look into BCAAs and see if I can even afford adding those into my monthly supplement stockups...

O14

 

[Nate Dawg]

Derek, I remember in a different thread where you were talking about you and some of your friends experimenting with mega-dosing BCAA's, something like 40-50g/day if I remember correctly? What did you think of this dosing scheme, does it justify the extra cost when compared to the gains? What kind of gains did you experience when trying this?

 

[LCSULLA]

Adipokentix.

 

[Beast]

Derek, I remember in a different thread where you were talking about you and some of your friends experimenting with mega-dosing BCAA's, something like 40-50g/day if I remember correctly? What did you think of this dosing scheme, does it justify the extra cost when compared to the gains? What kind of gains did you experience when trying this?

I feel for the gains and improvement in recovery I am seeing, high dosing BCAA is worth it. I think 30 grams/day would be a more economical way to use them while still reaping the benefits (Breakfast, pre/post workout, and bedtime). Getting BCAA around your workout is the most important thing, so even if you just did 10 grams pre and post workout it would be very beneficial.

I also think high doses of BCAA would be great for PCT as it should keep you anabolic/anti-catabolic while you are regaining you natural test production. I am scared to think of what a SD + BCAA cycle might do. I'm sure there is a ceiling effect as to how much BCAA can boost protein synthesis, but then if you stack it with an androgen, I'm guessing you would experience a synergistic effect.

 

[Beowulf]

I am scared to think of what a SD + BCAA cycle might do. I'm sure there is a ceiling effect as to how much BCAA can boost protein synthesis, but then if you stack it with an androgen, I'm guessing you would experience a synergistic effect.

Speak of the :smite: : Invalid Link Removed

I just happen to be on that cycle right now. Up 9.6 lbs i less than 2 weeks. Of course the gains aren't pure muscle, but it is going well nonetheless. I will definitely continue to use them during PCT, and I plan to make BCAAs a staple of my program from now on. They worked great for preserving lbm while doing a few UD 2.0 cycles.

I've been taking the full dose right around before during and after my workout 10g/20g during and 5g in my protein shake after. I guess I should spread it out some more, or at least add it at breakfast and bedtime.

 

[Iron Warrior]

EC stack

 

[Par Deus]

The original LeptiGen

Most unfortunate that it had a shitty profit margin, even at a $120 MSRP, for two weeks at max dose

 

[Loki]

The original LeptiGen

Most unfortunate that it had a shitty profit margin, even at a $120 MSRP, for two weeks at max dose

W...O...fucking...R...D


I shed a tear over the manufacturing difficulties and pricing limitations every single day I diet.

 

[T-Bone]

I love EHCL and Caffine!. No new age bullshit monkey juice, bull testical extracts for me!

 

[rrgg]

... said T-Bone in between his calisthenics and medicine ball workout.

 

[wojo]

ok i forgot to add something..i def recommend anyone who wants a nonhormonal compliment to any creatine (cee kre-alkalyn,or cm) to try blackstar's OSMOLYTE .i love this i mix it with my kre-alkalyn tempted to add some bcaa's to it.i get a nice full look to me and i got it for like 10 bucks a bottle ,each ottle has 35 servings.the pumps on this get so intense for me it can cramp me up but i think im def a hyper responder

 

[Aeternitatis]

I've always liked BSL products. I wish they'd come out with something new. How did you get Osmolyte for $10? Cheaspest I've seen it is $20.

 

[biggjohn]

Creatine Monohydrate. I haven't used it in a while because of some unusual side effects. Next would be Glucophase XR.

 

[wojo]

I've always liked BSL products. I wish they'd come out with something new. How did you get Osmolyte for $10? Cheaspest I've seen it is $20.

froogle.com my friend i bout 5 bottles from the place that was seling it that cheap

 

[rrgg]

Mojo - How did your osmolyte "pump" results compare to citrulline malate? Better? Have you used both? Thanks.

 

[wojo]

never used cit malate..never will to be honest..seems like a hmb to me from waht i have read..maybe it works maybe it doesnt..the names wojo with a "w"..lol.to be honest i cant comment on cit malate as i never used it im just giving u opinions on what i have used

 

[rrgg]

Sorry Wojo Mojo. I was hoping for someone to compare the 2. Maybe I'll do it myself... but I can't find that $10 offer on froogle. Could you email me?

P.S. CM works for me. It's not an HMB.

 

[ItriedtoripoffBobosonowIamgonehaveaniceday]

Can I get an email too?!

 

[Renton405]

NoXplode...great pumps from it, muscles r alot fuller

CEE mixed with AAKG and BCAA would be good too...

 

[kwantam]

My cows seem to like clen.

Lately I've been throwing (approximately) the following into my pre and post-WO shakes:

5g BCAAs
1.5g CEE
1.5g ALCAR
1.5g Taurine
1.5g Citrulline Malate
1.5g l-Arginine-l-Malate (Syntrax Nitrous)
1 tbsp splenda (masks the ass taste of the above pretty well)

I also take 200mg caffeine, 50mg ephedrine, 2g CLA, a couple doses of Sesathin, a multi-vitamin, and some extra zinc and potassium pre-workout. On the whole, it makes waking up at 5:30a to go to the gym pretty enjoyable

I used to use NO-Xplode, but I like my current stack better, and it's lots cheaper.

-kwantam

 

[wojo]

ok i just checked the site i bout it from and they have raised the price on the stuff i got it for 45 bucks for 5 bottls still looks like the cheapest place i have seen tho so here is the link

Invalid Link Removed

 

[judge-mental]

Level A

EC
Vinager
Creatine
Fish oil
PHENOGEN - about the smartest supplement anyone ever put on the fucking market. way over everybody's head. the only supplement that makes the result last after ending use. maintaining your setpoint while chronically overeating is pretty fucking awesome, too bad nobody gets it :-(

Level B

Sesathin
7-OXO
A7E edit - I thought a7e was something its not. Im changing this to guggul extract
BCAA's

 

[cpa5oh]

Without question the two best supplements in terms of strength/growth for me have been X-Factor and Product X Dermasize.

I swear I gained more strength and size over eight weeks of Product X than I did over eight weeks of 1-test transdermal and M1,4add (using "Big One" at 5 sprays twice per day and M1,4add at 120mg/day.) Every workout I increased strength on almost every exercise using Product X.

I guess I'm a creatine non-responder...neither monohydrate nor Vitargo CGL nor CEE produced any results that I couldn't have gotten without them.

 

[Loki]

Level A

EC
Vinager
Creatine
Fish oil
PHENOGEN - about the smartest supplement anyone ever put on the fucking market. way over everybody's head. the only supplement that makes the result last after ending use. maintaining your setpoint while chronically overeating is pretty fucking awesome, to bad nobody gets it :-(

Level B

Sesathin
7-OXO
A7E
BCAA's

I get Phenogen, if it's any consolation to you...lol

Good list by the way. I would add high-potency green tea extract and anti-oxidants (NAC, ALA) to Class A though. And I'm pretty sure 7-hydroxy-dhea gets better bioavailability than A7E, although its not like any literature exists on those ethylcarbonate esters to begin with...

 

[T-Bone]

Level A

EC
Vinager
Creatine
Fish oil
PHENOGEN - about the smartest supplement anyone ever put on the fucking market. way over everybody's head. the only supplement that makes the result last after ending use. maintaining your setpoint while chronically overeating is pretty fucking awesome, to bad nobody gets it :-(

Level B

Sesathin
7-OXO
A7E
BCAA's

The prices of Avantlabs products are just too high. I have tried Absolved, Lipoderm, and now Sesathin..That is when I had the extra money to blow on a product that I wasn't sure of its effectiveness. I was disapointed with absolved and lipo. I haven't finished the Sesathin product yet, its a good product but I woundn't have marketed it towards fat loss. Also the price could come down some. I might actually add it to my daily supps if it was priced more reasonably. I was thinking about trying the Phonogen next time I cut calories but theres just not that much feedback from it as far as reviews go. Also by nobody "gets it" do you mean nobody purchases much of it or no one understands the concept of its use?. Also there is no place that lists the "Supplement Facts" of Phenogen, just the saying "One bottle will last you approximately 30 days". I'm guessing thats at the recommended dose on the bottle which most people double. I really don't believe that much in fat loss products overall. People will be doing cardio for 1 hour twice a day every day, and weight training 5 times a week, and then take a "fat loss" product and assume that that is what helped lose the fat!.

 

[Loki]

Phenogen:

Supplement Facts:
Serving Size: 2 Capsules
Servings Per Container: 90


Amount Per Serving:

Salvia Miltiorrhiza (40% tanshinones) 500mg
SesaThin Powder (40% sesamin) 500mg
Guanidinopropionic Acid 500mg

Other Ingredients:
Microcrystalline cellulose. Directions: For those with a significant amount of bodyfat (above 15% for men and 25% for women) or those who store fat quite easily, use 2 capsules three times per day in conjuction with a reduced calorie diet (preferably a reduced carbohydrate diet).

 

[Nate Dawg]

So is phenogen used to maintain lbm while dieting, like an anti-catabolic supp, or is it just for fat loss?

 

[T-Bone]

Phenogen:

Supplement Facts:
Serving Size: 2 Capsules
Servings Per Container: 90


Amount Per Serving:

Salvia Miltiorrhiza (40% tanshinones) 500mg
SesaThin Powder (40% sesamin) 500mg
Guanidinopropionic Acid 500mg

Other Ingredients:
Microcrystalline cellulose. Directions: For those with a significant amount of bodyfat (above 15% for men and 25% for women) or those who store fat quite easily, use 2 capsules three times per day in conjuction with a reduced calorie diet (preferably a reduced carbohydrate diet).

That should really go up on the site.

 

[Beast]

So is phenogen used to maintain lbm while dieting, like an anti-catabolic supp, or is it just for fat loss?

It is a fat loss/anti fat gain supplement.

 

[Loki]

That should really go up on the site.

It's being taken care of.

So is phenogen used to maintain lbm while dieting, like an anti-catabolic supp, or is it just for fat loss?

As Derek said, it is a repartitioner of calories (particularly glucose) that improves carbohydrate tolerance and accelerates fat loss on a diet, and reduces fat gain on a mass phase by distributing more ingested calories (and again glucose) to muscle, and preventing fat storage & triglyceride formation.

 

[judge-mental]

its much more than a repartitioner, IMO
its (main use for me) a product that massages your brain not to raise its resistance to leptin or maybe even repairs it while you overeat or eat regularly and an endo/overweight.

 

[Loki]

its much more than a repartitioner, IMO
its (main use for me) a product that massages your brain not to raise its resistance to leptin or maybe even repairs it while you overeat or eat regularly and an endo/overweight.

Perchance you are mistaking Phenogen for Leptigen Rebirth??

 

[judge-mental]

.... I have used phenogen for 8 weeks and read the write up and the references and did some research on my own.

 

[Par Deus]

Level A

PHENOGEN - about the smartest supplement anyone ever put on the fucking market. way over everybody's head...... too bad nobody gets it :-(

The entire LeptiGen line pretty much fits this as well.

I've definitely learned a great deal the last 2 years on the need to dummy and bro-proof supplements.

 

[biggjohn]

X factor data is coming in and looking good. It's going to be on my "to try" list soon.