Best long term add to TRT?

BBiceps

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Is it anything to add that make things better, for health, more free test or whatever?It can be OTC or UG.
 
justhere4comm

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What is your TRT protocol?
Are you also taking HCG?


I take these
  • Coenzyme Q10
  • Vitamin D3 / K2
  • Vitamin B-12 (IM)
Nice to haves
  • Creatine Monohydrate
  • Curcumin / Turmeric
  • Resveratrol
  • Krill Oil
  • Berberine (Or Metformin: **Requires a script)
  • Garlic
  • BORON (Reduced SHBG, Increases Free Testosterone)*
*Viron from Black Lion Research works well.
 
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BBiceps

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What is your TRT protocol?
Are you also taking HCG?


I take these
  • Coenzyme Q10
  • Vitamin D3 / K2
  • Vitamin B-12 (IM)
Nice to haves
  • Creatine Monohydrate
  • Curcumin / Turmeric
  • Resveratrol
  • Krill Oil
  • Berberine (Or Metformin: **Requires a script)
  • Garlic
  • BORON (Reduced SHBG, Increases Free Testosterone)*
*Viron from Black Lion Research works well.
I’m not on TRT now, but I’m debating if I should and doing some research for long term health. I’m going to see my Dr next week to talk about it, as of now I’m leaning towards yes.

But, if do start I think I’ll do 200mg a week, no HCG, probably with a small anastrozole dose on injection day.
 
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BBiceps

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I'd advise against that protocol. I'd start low around 100mg with no HCG or AI. You should not need an AI on TRT doses anyway and starting at 200 introduces possible variables.
100mg would be a total waste for me, the protocol I listed is something I used before and it only put my test at 900.

That wasn’t the question though
 
justhere4comm

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Only 900 huh.

What scale are you using because that’s pretty damned good according to mine. Some are great with 500-600

Kisaj is highly respected and knows a hell of a lot about TRT. I consider him a great authority. He’s on the money with the starting point for most doctors. Clinics on the other hand would be more in line with your number but no higher.

That’s not to say I’ve not seen as high as 300 mg per week prescribed by clinics with an AI. The long term health effects are RBC increase, High Hematocrit, Iron issues, Cardiac issues. There is a sweet spot you need to find to feel good and be healthy. Going too high is not good. Nor is it TRT.

Mind if I ask a few questions?
What’s your age?
Current bloods?

I’m 55. On TRT 3 years.
120mg week.
Night and day from not being on.

I’ve had a bought with high BP.
Things are looking much better.

What are you expecting to achieve in a higher than 900 number? Goal?

Well. Free test of course is key.
So 900 total can mean great or no depending on if your free test is high.

Lowering your SHBG at a lower dose would be healthier and better. Of course none of what I posted was in your question. You should see that here often. People chime in to help with more than you ask.

It’s why this is my favorite place.
Everyone cares and there is great knowledge to be had.

That said, the sundry extras I listed go a long way to compliment TRT.
If you are looking for an anabolic to go along with it, that's not really TRT.
Am I barking up the wrong tree? Just let me know.

-M
 
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kisaj

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Well, I'd ask myself if I were chasing a number or looking to address symptoms if going on TRT, then that could change your approach.

But to answer your question, I take some items as staples with my TRT:
coQ10
nattokinase
Milk thistle
hawthorne
boron

In addition, I add in pregnenolone 2x weekly.
 

BBiceps

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Only 900 huh.

What scale are you using because that’s pretty damned good according to mine. Some are great with 500-600

Kisaj is highly respected and knows a hell of a lot about TRT. I consider him a great authority. He’s on the money with the starting point for most doctors. Clinics on the other hand would be more in line with your number but no higher.

That’s not to say I’ve not seen as high as 300 mg per week prescribed by clinics with an AI. The long term health effects are RBC increase, High Hematocrit, Iron issues, Cardiac issues. There is a sweet spot you need to find to feel good and be healthy. Going too high is not good. Nor is it TRT.

Mind if I ask a few questions?
What’s your age?
Current bloods?

I’m 55. On TRT 3 years.
120mg week.
Night and day from not being on.

I’ve had a bought with high BP.
Things are looking much better.

What are you expecting to achieve in a higher than 900 number? Goal?

Well. Free test of course is key.
So 900 total can mean great or no depending on if your free test is high.

Lowering your SHBG at a lower dose would be healthier and better. Of course none of what I posted was in your question. You should see that here often. People chime in to help with more than you ask.

It’s why this is my favorite place.
Everyone cares and there is great knowledge to be had.

That said, the sundry extras I listed go a long way to compliment TRT.
If you are looking for an anabolic to go along with it, that's not really TRT.
Am I barking up the wrong tree? Just let me know.

-M
I’m 41 (fvck age crawl up on you way too quick)

The reason I’m set on this protocol is because I was on TRT 4-5 yrs ago for 3 yrs and that was the protocol I was on and felt the best on (I did start lower and increased), my bloods was all good except slightly high cholesterol (not out of range) but it’s been that way regardless anabolics. This was through a Dr and not a stupid clinic, I’m not pulling a random number just because I think it’s cool.

To be honest I figured that I will go back on sometime but wanted to hold off as long as I could, but I think it might be time now... my only concern is long term health...
 
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BBiceps

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Well, I'd ask myself if I were chasing a number or looking to address symptoms if going on TRT, then that could change your approach.

But to answer your question, I take some items as staples with my TRT:
coQ10
nattokinase
Milk thistle
hawthorne
boron

In addition, I add in pregnenolone 2x weekly.
What do you feel is the benefit with pregnenolone? I seen ppl use it

Thanks.
 

kisaj

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Well, I'd ask myself if I were chasing a number or looking to address symptoms if going on TRT, then that could change your approach.

But to answer your question, I take some items as staples with my TRT:
coQ10
nattokinase
Milk thistle
hawthorne
boron

In addition, I add in pregnenolone 2x weekly.
What do you feel is the benefit with pregnenolone? I seen ppl use it

Thanks.
I started taking it because a few years after being on TRT, I was noticing that I was again feeling lower energy and mood. Went back and ran thorough labs and everything was well in order except DHEAS was low mid-range and pregnenolone was low. I was working with two specialist at the time and they both recommended supplementing it because HCG did not work well for me. It was like a light switch turned on. Great energy and mood, but an unintended benefit was memory. My memory is so much faster and word recall is improved with my pregnenolone levels at the high normal range. It's something I would not go without, personally.
 

BBiceps

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I started taking it because a few years after being on TRT, I was noticing that I was again feeling lower energy and mood. Went back and ran thorough labs and everything was well in order except DHEAS was low mid-range and pregnenolone was low. I was working with two specialist at the time and they both recommended supplementing it because HCG did not work well for me. It was like a light switch turned on. Great energy and mood, but an unintended benefit was memory. My memory is so much faster and word recall is improved with my pregnenolone levels at the high normal range. It's something I would not go without, personally.
That’s good to know, thanks!
 
justhere4comm

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Cool.

Decreases SHBG (Sex hormone binding globulin) thereby also increasing free testosterone and decreasing estrogen.
You will feel better for sure.

VIRON also has 250mg of Eurycoma Longifolia.

- Decreases cortisol
- Increases erections / libido
- Decreased stress
- Increase well being

So, yeah. Good stuff!

-M
 
GreenMachineX

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I'd advise against that protocol. I'd start low around 100mg with no HCG or AI. You should not need an AI on TRT doses anyway and starting at 200 introduces possible variables.
Excellent advice. I started at 180mg with small AI dose, then lots of variables all getting out of whack, 2 years later of fighting it all, and turns out all I need is 50mg twice per week, no AI, no HCG. HCT stable. Cholesterol under 200. Total test about 550 and free T at 19. Feel great.
 

Fabulous One

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One of the best things that I've added to my supplements is Thornes Bio-Min II without copper and iron. This stuff made such a difference in my sleep and morning wood that I put it on auto order at amazon. For $25 it can't be beat, especially for us older guys. its outstanding.
 

BBiceps

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One of the best things that I've added to my supplements is Thornes Bio-Min II without copper and iron. This stuff made such a difference in my sleep and morning wood that I put it on auto order at amazon. For $25 it can't be beat, especially for us older guys. its outstanding.
Why do you feel that a mineral complex is such a good addition to trt, are you not eating a well balanced diet or are you just lacking minerals? This much be very individual
 

Fabulous One

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Why do you feel that a mineral complex is such a good addition to trt, are you not eating a well balanced diet or are you just lacking minerals? This much be very individual
Like I said above, sleep and morning wood. It was extremely noticeable for me. I've recommended this supplement to a few guys at work, and they have all sad the same thing. My buddy said that he had to give it a break for a few days as his dreams were getting to be too much for him.
 

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When i was doing my self prescribed trt, i felt best on 100mg test a week and 1000 iu hcg a week, split into 2 injections. I feel like that hcg could have had been cut in half though but still, felt great and had no high e2 issues.

Well-being and energy with and without hcg is night and day.

So hcg would be my no.1 add on, 500-1000 iu a week.

Another add on would be growth hormone. 1-1.5 iu a day.
I like mk677 at 12.5mg a day. Lethargy is not as bsd as with 25mg but sleep and recovery benefits are still evident.

Only issue with mk i have is sensitive nipples.
 

dondon

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One of the best things that I've added to my supplements is Thornes Bio-Min II without copper and iron. This stuff made such a difference in my sleep and morning wood that I put it on auto order at amazon. For $25 it can't be beat, especially for us older guys. its outstanding.
That’s interesting, I looked over the ingredients and it seems pretty standard as far as minerals go, I wonder what causes the high libido? I can sure use some if that’s the case. Are you on TRT and how much? Do you also take HCG or anything for natural production? Very interested, thanks.
 
thebigt

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Excellent advice. I started at 180mg with small AI dose, then lots of variables all getting out of whack, 2 years later of fighting it all, and turns out all I need is 50mg twice per week, no AI, no HCG. HCT stable. Cholesterol under 200. Total test about 550 and free T at 19. Feel great.
I am 61 and on 100mg test cyp once weekly injection...my range is between 500 and 750 depending on how close injection is to blood draw. my cholesterol is 800 and I eat lots of meat and probably more fried foods than I should. I think the key to my good health is cardio, I love a good run at the end of the day+i lift almost every morning before work. the best thing I add to my trt is dermacrine, it has dhea/preg and a mild ai, I can really tell the difference when I am on dermacrine..
 

Joshinator

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I am 61 and on 100mg test cyp once weekly injection...my range is between 500 and 750 depending on how close injection is to blood draw. my cholesterol is 800 and I eat lots of meat and probably more fried foods than I should. I think the key to my good health is cardio, I love a good run at the end of the day+i lift almost every morning before work. the best thing I add to my trt is dermacrine, it has dhea/preg and a mild ai, I can really tell the difference when I am on dermacrine..
Hcg would fulfill the role of dhea and pregnenolone but would do a better job
 
thebigt

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Hcg would fulfill the role of dhea and pregnenolone but would do a better job
I agree that might be the case for you...but it is bold of you to say what is best for me?
 

Fabulous One

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That’s interesting, I looked over the ingredients and it seems pretty standard as far as minerals go, I wonder what causes the high libido? I can sure use some if that’s the case. Are you on TRT and how much? Do you also take HCG or anything for natural production? Very interested, thanks.
I can't say for sure. The sleep is ultra deep. I've taken gobs of multi-vit/min over the years and never got the same effect. I suggested it to a few other at work, and they also mention the sleep. My one friend said he had to stop for a bit because he was sleeping so hard and his dreams were getting to be too much for him. He is a fellow Marine and Purple Heart recipient that was hit by and IED in Afghanistan. He ain't all on the PTSD stuff, he just said he hadn't any dreams of it since taking this.

I am on 100mg but I don't have to use that much to get high numbers on total and free. I usually only use 80mg per week. Right now I am trying to come off cold turkey. I'm just using a little Arimidex. Its not going so well at the moment, feeling really low energy but woke up with killer wood this morning so something is trying to work. So we'll see. I'll probably pick up some Clomid to give myself a boost.
 
manifesto

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In addition, I add in pregnenolone 2x week
.
I have read that supplementing with DHEA will also raise Pregnenolone levels. Why did you decide to supplement with Pregnenolone, and not just use DHEA?
 

dondon

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I can't say for sure. The sleep is ultra deep. I've taken gobs of multi-vit/min over the years and never got the same effect. I suggested it to a few other at work, and they also mention the sleep. My one friend said he had to stop for a bit because he was sleeping so hard and his dreams were getting to be too much for him. He is a fellow Marine and Purple Heart recipient that was hit by and IED in Afghanistan. He ain't all on the PTSD stuff, he just said he hadn't any dreams of it since taking this.

I am on 100mg but I don't have to use that much to get high numbers on total and free. I usually only use 80mg per week. Right now I am trying to come off cold turkey. I'm just using a little Arimidex. Its not going so well at the moment, feeling really low energy but woke up with killer wood this morning so something is trying to work. So we'll see. I'll probably pick up some Clomid to give myself a boost.
thanks, I ordered it, if it works it works, if not then it’s still a good balance of minerals.

I’m coming off TRT myself from a 200 mg (100 x2 a week), so I’m in the same boat. Dermacrine is great for the DHEA, and libido. Try Fadogia Agrestis to jump start your HPTA to produce LH and FSH which is shutdown during test cycles
 
thebigt

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I take 100mg of Pregnenolone every morning. Is the Dermacrine that much better?
for me, ABSOLUTELY. no doubt about it.

but if you prefer preg solo I highly recommend trying td.
 

BBiceps

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thanks, I ordered it, if it works it works, if not then it’s still a good balance of minerals.

I’m coming off TRT myself from a 200 mg (100 x2 a week), so I’m in the same boat. Dermacrine is great for the DHEA, and libido. Try Fadogia Agrestis to jump start your HPTA to produce LH and FSH which is shutdown during test cycles
Let me know how it goes with the mineral supplement.

Btw if you trying to get off test completely I would recommend to go and get some Clomid asap.
 

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thanks, I ordered it, if it works it works, if not then it’s still a good balance of minerals.

I’m coming off TRT myself from a 200 mg (100 x2 a week), so I’m in the same boat. Dermacrine is great for the DHEA, and libido. Try Fadogia Agrestis to jump start your HPTA to produce LH and FSH which is shutdown during test cycles
I failed brother. I had to go back on. I had to take my shot yesterday. I felt miserable, super hateful with everyone and my joints where killing me. I feel like a total different person this morning. Smiling and happy to see the family and pets.

I'll have to get some Clomid before I try this again.
 
manifesto

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I failed brother. I had to go back on. I had to take my shot yesterday. I felt miserable, super hateful with everyone and my joints where killing me. I feel like a total different person this morning. Smiling and happy to see the family and pets.

I'll have to get some Clomid before I try this again.
How long were you on TRT before you stopped, bro?
 

Fabulous One

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How long were you on TRT before you stopped, bro?
right at 10 years now. Went in at 35 years old just to have some basic blood work done and the doc discovered I had no Thyroid hormone. She drew more blood for a complete hormonal panel and found that my Test and Estrogen was almost non existent. She couldn't believe that I was even functioning. Been on Thyroid and Test ever since. I just wanted to see what would happen, and I got my answer.

I was in a bad car wreck when I was 17 and was thrown head first through the windshield. Went to Marine Corps boot camp at Paris Island in July just 1.5 weeks after the wreck. My face was still cut up. I think the wreck could have damaged my pituitary gland but the MRI showed no tumors or anything like that.
 
thebigt

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right at 10 years now. Went in at 35 years old just to have some basic blood work done and the doc discovered I had no Thyroid hormone. She drew more blood for a complete hormonal panel and found that my Test and Estrogen was almost non existent. She couldn't believe that I was even functioning. Been on Thyroid and Test ever since. I just wanted to see what would happen, and I got my answer.

I was in a bad car wreck when I was 17 and was thrown head first through the windshield. Went to Marine Corps boot camp at Paris Island in July just 1.5 weeks after the wreck. My face was still cut up. I think the wreck could have damaged my pituitary gland but the MRI showed no tumors or anything like that.
back in the day, pre-enlistment physicals were VERY thorough, and marine boot camp was VERY physically demanding.
 
manifesto

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right at 10 years now. Went in at 35 years old just to have some basic blood work done and the doc discovered I had no Thyroid hormone. She drew more blood for a complete hormonal panel and found that my Test and Estrogen was almost non existent. She couldn't believe that I was even functioning. Been on Thyroid and Test ever since. I just wanted to see what would happen, and I got my answer.

I was in a bad car wreck when I was 17 and was thrown head first through the windshield. Went to Marine Corps boot camp at Paris Island in July just 1.5 weeks after the wreck. My face was still cut up. I think the wreck could have damaged my pituitary gland but the MRI showed no tumors or anything like that.
I'm sure you have heard this before, but you probably wont be able to stop TRT at this point...I don't think a HPTA restart is even an option
 

Fabulous One

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back in the day, pre-enlistment physicals were VERY thorough, and marine boot camp was VERY physically demanding.
I went to Parris Island in July 93. It was unreal hot, black flag conditions not long past sun up. There had been 2 recruits die the 2 weeks before I arrived. My Sr. Drill Instructor said that he was trained in the old ways and that we would be trained the same. It was a brutal experience to say the least. Served 5 years and was honorably discharged as a Sgt.
 

Fabulous One

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I'm sure you have heard this before, but you probably wont be able to stop TRT at this point...I don't think a HPTA restart is even an option
I sort of knew this, but didn't want to believe it. Man, it made me a believer the past 2 days.
 
manifesto

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Did you have doctor prescribed TRT?
 
thebigt

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I went to Parris Island in July 93. It was unreal hot, black flag conditions not long past sun up. There had been 2 recruits die the 2 weeks before I arrived. My Sr. Drill Instructor said that he was trained in the old ways and that we would be trained the same. It was a brutal experience to say the least. Served 5 years and was honorably discharged as a Sgt.
I salute you!!!
 

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thanks men! yes, I have a prescription from a doc.
 
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dondon

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I failed brother. I had to go back on. I had to take my shot yesterday. I felt miserable, super hateful with everyone and my joints where killing me. I feel like a total different person this morning. Smiling and happy to see the family and pets.

I'll have to get some Clomid before I try this again.
yeah man, when I read you said you were quitting cold turkey I wanted to say don’t do it, I been there once and it was severe, clomid or HCG is needed along with test boosters
 

kisaj

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I have read that supplementing with DHEA will also raise Pregnenolone levels. Why did you decide to supplement with Pregnenolone, and not just use DHEA?
Where did you read that? Pregnenolone is the parent to all other hormones, including DHEA, it doesn't work the other direction.
 
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It was a YouTube video with Dr. Eric Serrano. I'll try to find it later, and link it in here
 
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It was a YouTube video with Dr. Eric Serrano. I'll try to find it later, and link it in here
He said in the video that he only prescribes Pregnenolone to patience with traumatic brain injury.
 

kisaj

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He said in the video that he only prescribes Pregnenolone to patience with traumatic brain injury.
Enough said, that guy is pretty controversial in his stances regarding TRT. There are far too many doctors out there with opinions on how to optimize TRT and I would never listen to one guy spouting his thoughts.
 
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Enough said, that guy is pretty controversial in his stances regarding TRT. There are far too many doctors out there with opinions on how to optimize TRT and I would never listen to one guy spouting his thoughts.
Gotcha. I'm still relatively new to all of this, so I'm still sifting through all the material.
 
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@kisaj can you recommend a better HRT resource to learn from...youtube channel it whatever...
 

kisaj

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@kisaj can you recommend a better HRT resource to learn from...youtube channel it whatever...
@kenpoengineer

He may have some guidance here as I know he's always been super helpful in this area. I've been on TRT for so long that I have stopped following many of the doctors and sites I used to get information from and really just rely on my own labs and doctors at this point. I don't want to send you somewhere without knowing if they are passing good information.
 
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@kenpoengineer

He may have some guidance here as I know he's always been super helpful in this area. I've been on TRT for so long that I have stopped following many of the doctors and sites I used to get information from and really just rely on my own labs and doctors at this point. I don't want to send you somewhere without knowing if they are passing good information.
Ok, thank you.

Would you mind laying out your protocol in here for me?
 

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