Best ideas for no chinese sourced supps

[Kronic]

the 2 things that would really get the chinese's attention..1.olympic boycott. 2.Nba boycott--neither of which i see happening.

maybe but I think they just wanna take over Taiwan and Hong Kong

 

[Renew1]

maybe but I think they just wanna take over Taiwan and Hong Kong

They Already Own Hong Kong.
It is Chinese property.

Sadly, Taiwan is not far behind.

 

[sns8778]

I'm staying out of the political aspects of this (and all) threads.

But on a business level, think of it like this:

One reason that a lot of the supplement prices have gone thru the roof is an increase in tariffs on China.

Another reason that a lot of the supplement prices have gone thru the roof is China's strict adherence to new environmental and energy guidelines cutting the production capacity.

So always remember its a two edged sword - a lot of the time things that people think they want in theory really lead to unintended consequences, like in this case - raw material prices skyrocketing and there being a lot of shortages.

And a lot of times its the same people that complain wanting China to do this or that - that then complain about the consequences of them doing it.

I've seen some of the same people that complain about wanting China to do this or that going the conspiracy theory route and claiming China wants to raw supplement raw material prices when that's absolutely not the case.

 

[mechka_grizli]

I'm staying out of the political aspects of this (and all) threads.

But on a business level, think of it like this:

One reason that a lot of the supplement prices have gone thru the roof is an increase in tariffs on China.

Another reason that a lot of the supplement prices have gone thru the roof is China's strict adherence to new environmental and energy guidelines cutting the production capacity.

So always remember its a two edged sword - a lot of the time things that people think they want in theory really lead to unintended consequences, like in this case - raw material prices skyrocketing and there being a lot of shortages.

And a lot of times its the same people that complain wanting China to do this or that - that then complain about the consequences of them doing it.

I've seen some of the same people that complain about wanting China to do this or that going the conspiracy theory route and claiming China wants to raw supplement raw material prices when that's absolutely not the case.

check dms

 

[Nodus1]

I'm staying out of the political aspects of this (and all) threads.

But on a business level, think of it like this:

One reason that a lot of the supplement prices have gone thru the roof is an increase in tariffs on China.

Another reason that a lot of the supplement prices have gone thru the roof is China's strict adherence to new environmental and energy guidelines cutting the production capacity.

So always remember its a two edged sword - a lot of the time things that people think they want in theory really lead to unintended consequences, like in this case - raw material prices skyrocketing and there being a lot of shortages.

And a lot of times its the same people that complain wanting China to do this or that - that then complain about the consequences of them doing it.

I've seen some of the same people that complain about wanting China to do this or that going the conspiracy theory route and claiming China wants to raw supplement raw material prices when that's absolutely not the case.

What is "this or that"?

 

[sns8778]

If you had read what SNS stated there is a very good chance that raw material grown in other countries ends up being funneled through Chinese raw material suppliers. So being grown in Peru will not necessarily ensure that it never landed in China prior to your hands. Just something to think about and ask if it's that important.

I agree with corruption and human rights issues over there for sure but no level of corruption is going to change the fact that proper testing here and proper law-abiding companies are not going to be touched by that.

I was really hoping this thread would stay dead.

There is corruption and human rights abuses by nearly every government in the world - that is a reflection on the governments, not the people that live there and not all of the businesses in those countries. There are good and bad people in every country, state, and city in the world - that's because there are good and bad people in the world. Period.

In the supplement industry, two of the leading countries for raw materials are India and China. One can fixate on China and the stigma's and issues that go on related to it, but if we're talking corruption and human rights abuses let's not forget that India basically has a rape epidemic - to the level that there have been documentaries on it showing that its to the level that many convenience stores even buy and resell amateur rape videos. I'm not picking on India here - I'm just giving an example that if we're talking human rights abuses, let's get real - it happens in some way in most countries in the world. It's bad, it's horrible - but it has nothing to do with supplement raw material quality is my point.

If a person wants to buy or not buy raw materials from whatever country, company, organization, etc. - that is their right.
But that shouldn't give them the right to spread false information about that particular company, organization, country, etc.

There are many wonderful and great people that I deal with regularly in this industry from China.

If one were to read this thread and believe it at face value of what some people have said, one would be lead to think that most of the Chinese would be impoverished, mistreated, taken advantage of, unsanitary, etc. To the contrary, most of the Chinese people I deal with are well educated, well spoken, and a joy to talk to, deal with, and get to know. And most are extremely happy with their jobs in the supplement industry and very nicely compensated.

There are many great Chinese raw material suppliers that offer top quality raw materials.

And if one were to read this thread and believe it at face value, one would be lead to think that most of the Chinese raw material quality would be bad and that is absolutely not true. I rarely get pissed off but this thread has definitely done so because there have been some very discriminatory implications and undertones and just some flat out lies with people throwing BS information out about things they know nothing about.

As someone that has worked in this industry and handled raw material sourcing for 17 years, here's a few facts:

• Chinese raw material suppliers are not owned or ran by the government. China may have a communist government but they also place a heavy emphasis on capitalism and the raw material facilities are private businesses.
• Many of the legitimate Chinese raw material suppliers are multi-million dollar and in some cases, hundred million dollar companies with absolute top of the line equipment, extraction technology, etc.
• China has some very strict raw material laws.
• China has much stricter punishments for raw material health hazard violations than the US does for supplements in a lot of cases.
• Since the baby formula heavy metals issue back in the early 20-teens, China has cracked down super hard on raw material suppliers; and as mentioned above, there has been a lot of super strict punishments put in place for violations.
• There are many Chinese raw material suppliers that are GMP themselves and adhere to all GMP guidelines. Many of them invite the US FDA to inspect them and many hire independent US GMP auditing firms to come and inspect them.
• Raw material quality testing is about facts - not opinions. A biased person can do all the 'thinking' they won't that a good quality raw material cannot come from whatever place they are biased against, but test results don't think - they prove. If you 'think' bc it comes from the US it's great and HPLC shows its garbage, I don't care what you 'think', its garbage.

Now don't get me wrong, there are also shady raw material suppliers in China just like there are shady supplement companies in the US. There are raw material suppliers in China that try to fly below the government's radar and do illegal and unethical things and have terrible quality controls or are straight out scams - just as there are US supplement companies that are not FDA registered &/or don't use GMP manufacturing facilities and some that literally cap and bottle stuff themselves and don't do any quality testing nor microbial or heavy metals testing. Just as there are research chemical companies and companies that call themselves supplement companies that sell illegal drugs and call them supplements and do zero quality testing and provide these items to consumers who in many cases have no idea at all what they're really putting in their body.

^^^ Bottom line - there are unethical, immoral, shady, and illegal entities in pretty much every country in the world, including ours. But just as those companies in the US shouldn't reflect negatively on the companies that do things the right way, neither should the companies in China that do things the wrong way reflect on the ones that do things the right way.

I would make an argument that in terms of US consumer health and safety, its an even bigger issue for the US companies that do things the wrong way because if they did things the right way themselves and used GMP contract manufacturing facilities and did the proper quality testing and heavy metals and microbial testing, they would be safeguarding the consumer in case the raw material supplier did something wrong (whether accidental or on purpose and regardless of country of origin).

A legitimate supplement company in the US should:

• Be registered with the FDA
• Only use FDA registered GMP compliant contract manufacturing facilities
• Do all GMP appropriate testing in addition to testing done by the contract manufacturers
• Deal with legitimate raw material suppliers and follow all necessary processes and procedures for raw material testing

Instead, too many companies in this industry:

• Aren't registered with the FDA
• Don't use FDA registered GMP compliant contract manufacturers
• Don't do any quality testing nor microbial or heavy metals testing
• Treat FDA laws and GMP guidelines like they are suggestions instead of laws and guidelines
• Cut corners and skimp on quality and look for the cheapest price on Alibaba rather than deal with real legitimate raw material suppliers.
• Capsulate and bottle products themselves with no FDA mandated quality controls in place and then sell to consumers

The supposed purpose of this thread was about not trusting Chinese quality.

The purpose of my post is an in depth look at quality in this industry and the things that people should be worrying about.

My post has zero to do with politics - it has to do with consumer safety because I care about people and I care about this industry and its only a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt or worse by one of these companies not following quality controls - and these are companies in the US.

 

[sns8778]

I'm staying out of the political aspects of this (and all) threads.

But on a business level, think of it like this:

One reason that a lot of the supplement prices have gone thru the roof is an increase in tariffs on China.

Another reason that a lot of the supplement prices have gone thru the roof is China's strict adherence to new environmental and energy guidelines cutting the production capacity.

So always remember its a two edged sword - a lot of the time things that people think they want in theory really lead to unintended consequences, like in this case - raw material prices skyrocketing and there being a lot of shortages.

And a lot of times its the same people that complain wanting China to do this or that - that then complain about the consequences of them doing it.

I've seen some of the same people that complain about wanting China to do this or that going the conspiracy theory route and claiming China wants to raw supplement raw material prices when that's absolutely not the case.

What is "this or that"?

I meant it in general terms but was thinking of the tariffs and environmental things I'd put in my post.

A lot of people wanted China to improve environmental laws and limit energy expenditure - and their new enforcements on limiting energy expenditures are heavily contributing to the raw material increases in this industry. If you can only expend X amount of energy per period of time, once its used up, production shuts down. Less raw materials = shortage = higher prices.

A lot of people wanted a tariff on Chinese goods coming into the US. Now, there are heavier tariffs on Chinese goods coming into the US for many supplement raw materials. Unfortunately, these same supplement raw materials are not produced in the US so it wasn't a case where a tariff on foreign goods was going to help people buy from a US source; it simply translated into it literally costing more to make some products now than we were selling them to retailers for before.

So then in my last sentence of my post you quoted, what I meant was that sometimes its the same people that want tariffs on Chinese goods and for China to control energy expenditure that then turn around and go the conspiracy theory route that China is purposefully increasing the price of raw materials - and that's not the case at all. The prices are just being driven up by a variety of factors including the policies that some people want to on one hand push for but then complain about the consequences.

So in general terms, I'm just discussing cause and effects.

My post has zero political leaning one way or the other - its just the way that policies and world events are affecting the supplement industry.