Best Cocktail to Increase FREE Test Only

kboxer7

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Ok crew,


Trying to build an ultimate "free test" stack out of bulk/individual ingredients.

Here is what I have so far:

Divanil (Stinging Nettle)
Diindoylmethane (I3C precursor)
Tongkat Ali
Boron
Vit D3
Magnesium


How about Avena Sativa? Can't find much on it.

Anything else I have missed?
 
KilaCali

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Tribulus!! Folic acid has been shown to lower estrogen and increae androgen levels, DAA & L-AA, Forskolin has been said to increase t-levels in some abstracts.. so I would look at
1.Tribulus Terrestris(500mg)
2. D-Aspartic-Acid(3.5grams) & L-Methyl-Aspartic-Acid(30-50mg)
3.5a-hydroxy-laxogenin(50-75mg)
4.Zing or ZMA (25-50mg Zing/500mg Magnesium/Vitamin D or D3) usually sold in combos or Zing and below seperate
5.Vitamin D3 (shown to increase test in a lot of studies/abstracts)(1-5000mg/IU)
6.Calcium (Seen a DAA Calcium combo a few places that looks promising)(1-1500mg)
7.Boron(as amino acid Boron-Chelate)(15-30mg)
8.Korean Red Ginseng(120mg)(Shown to increase test in animal studies)
9.Mucuna Puriens(Velvet Bean Extract with atleast 60% L-DOPA) shown to increase test/libido & GH)2-500mg
10.P-5-P(Vitamin B6)50-100mg
11.Vitamin K2 (as Menaquinone-7)(Works Synergistically with D3)(1-5mg)

Check into those, hope this helps, youll have one HELL of a test booster with what you have already and some of these! keep us posted, I'd have to check it out! I might have left out a few things I cant think of but those are the main ones I can think of.
 
NoAddedHmones

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Tribulus!! Folic acid (nope) has been shown to lower estrogen and increae androgen levels, DAA & L-AA, Forskolin has been said to increase t-levels in some abstracts.. so I would look at
1.Tribulus Terrestris(500mg) - Nope
2. D-Aspartic-Acid(3.5grams) studied at 3.2g & L-Methyl-Aspartic-Acid(30-50mg) What? and Nope
3.5a-hydroxy-laxogenin(50-75mg) Nope
4.Zing or ZMA (25-50mg Zing/500mg Magnesium/Vitamin D or D3) usually sold in combos or Zing and below seperate Most likely nope
5.Vitamin D3 (shown to increase test in a lot of studies/abstracts)(1-5000mg/IU) - most likely nope
6.Calcium (Seen a DAA Calcium combo a few places that looks promising)(1-1500mg) Nope
7.Boron(as amino acid Boron-Chelate)(15-30mg)
8.Korean Red Ginseng(120mg)(Shown to increase test in animal studies)
9.Mucuna Puriens(Velvet Bean Extract with atleast 60% L-DOPA) shown to increase test/libido & GH)2-500mg
10.P-5-P(Vitamin B6)50-100mg Nope
11.Vitamin K2 (as Menaquinone-7)(Works Synergistically with D3)(1-5mg) Nope

Check into those, hope this helps, youll have one HELL of a test booster with what you have already and some of these! keep us posted, I'd have to check it out! I might have left out a few things I cant think of but those are the main ones I can think of.
Bolded :)
 
kboxer7

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Tribulus!! Folic acid has been shown to lower estrogen and increae androgen levels, DAA & L-AA, Forskolin has been said to increase t-levels in some abstracts.. so I would look at
1.Tribulus Terrestris(500mg)
2. D-Aspartic-Acid(3.5grams) & L-Methyl-Aspartic-Acid(30-50mg)
3.5a-hydroxy-laxogenin(50-75mg)
4.Zing or ZMA (25-50mg Zing/500mg Magnesium/Vitamin D or D3) usually sold in combos or Zing and below seperate
5.Vitamin D3 (shown to increase test in a lot of studies/abstracts)(1-5000mg/IU)
6.Calcium (Seen a DAA Calcium combo a few places that looks promising)(1-1500mg)
7.Boron(as amino acid Boron-Chelate)(15-30mg)
8.Korean Red Ginseng(120mg)(Shown to increase test in animal studies)
9.Mucuna Puriens(Velvet Bean Extract with atleast 60% L-DOPA) shown to increase test/libido & GH)2-500mg
10.P-5-P(Vitamin B6)50-100mg
11.Vitamin K2 (as Menaquinone-7)(Works Synergistically with D3)(1-5mg)

Check into those, hope this helps, youll have one HELL of a test booster with what you have already and some of these! keep us posted, I'd have to check it out! I might have left out a few things I cant think of but those are the main ones I can think of.
Nice list for sure man. I'm leaning toward free test right now, but combining that goal with increasing overall test is good too.

I'm leary of DAA with the new research out showing an increase in estrogen. I've seen others where both estrogen and test were raised but I didn't like the estrogen-to-test ratio it produced. That said I know many still swear by it.

Forskolin is a good one and a killer ingredient overall.

Laxogenin I'm on the fence with. Orally I'm not convinced of the bioavaliability but I know BPS has a nice transdermal now. Have you had any success with this ingredient?

Hasn't tribulus been debunked ages ago? Or did I miss something

ZMA is a sweet staple.

I do like Velvet Bean Extract as well at night.

Totally forgot about K2 and Korean Ginseng....nice call.



Appreciate the reply bro. Nice list over all man!
 
KilaCali

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Nice list for sure man. I'm leaning toward free test right now, but combining that goal with increasing overall test is good too.

I'm leary of DAA with the new research out showing an increase in estrogen. I've seen others where both estrogen and test were raised but I didn't like the estrogen-to-test ratio it produced. That said I know many still swear by it.

Forskolin is a good one and a killer ingredient overall.

Laxogenin I'm on the fence with. Orally I'm not convinced of the bioavaliability but I know BPS has a nice transdermal now. Have you had any success with this ingredient?

Hasn't tribulus been debunked ages ago? Or did I miss something

ZMA is a sweet staple.

I do like Velvet Bean Extract as well at night.

Totally forgot about K2 and Korean Ginseng....nice call.



Appreciate the reply bro. Nice list over all man!
those studies are hit & miss with DAA and as long as you got the DIM something to balance out the ratio its covered, you could always throw in 25-50mg of arimistane its still not proven for a solid AI but I believe in it for anti cortisol/test boosting/anti estrogen and its not going to mess with anything. ive had GREAT success wirth 5a-hydroxy in oral form and the transdermal ive used is DermaSTR3NGTH from OL and its worked great for me! I ran my first natty cycle with 5a-hydroxy/methyl-aspartic-acid/arimistane and it was awesome by the 3rd week. and tribulus from what Ive seen and experienced still has a place in there but you can always leave it out! its your special stack so you make the call with your research and peoples experience/opinions.. Good luck! let us know what you decide on. oh and Test is test, with the right ingredients youll be able to lower SHBG so your total test will reflect more on FREE test and it will all be for the better! things like DIM/Forskolin/Boron/D3/K2 all lower SHBG to a certain degree and metabolize E2 so you get more test out of everything.
 
NoAddedHmones

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Thanks bro! I try.
No problemo Hombre. Maybe shy away from shinny fitness mags for your information source for your recommendations. Perhaps either stop using your time machine when researching or maybe put an date range limitor to exclude alot of info pre 2010.
 
KilaCali

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No problemo Hombre. Maybe shy away from shinny fitness mags for your information source for your recommendations. Perhaps either stop using your time machine when researching or maybe put an date range limitor to exclude alot of info pre 2010.
I know what you mean~! I've recently been trying to limit my research to the last 3-5 years MAX because of all the latest break through studies and things that were supposedly the best turning out to be the worst thing for you.. I don't ever find one thing and stick with it though because every study/opinion/abstract/article/story has some kind of intent usually behind it, you never know who the author/dr's etc..are for and against so I try to check every place I can online and off, libraries/newspapers/certain decent magazines shiny or not lol and it takes me a long time to finally decide if there is any validity behind whatever it is im looking at.
 
NoAddedHmones

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I know what you mean~! I've recently been trying to limit my research to the last 3-5 years MAX because of all the latest break through studies and things that were supposedly the best turning out to be the worst thing for you.. I don't ever find one thing and stick with it though because every study/opinion/abstract/article/story has some kind of intent usually behind it, you never know who the author/dr's etc..are for and against so I try to check every place I can online and off, libraries/newspapers/certain decent magazines shiny or not lol and it takes me a long time to finally decide if there is any validity behind whatever it is im looking at.
Out of curiosity, show me studies showing Lax, NMDA or Trib effecting Test levels.
 
KilaCali

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Out of curiosity, show me studies showing Lax, NMDA or Trib effecting Test levels.
Didn't really say the NMDA or Lax increased Test, but I used them with arimistane in a cycle for my first natural one and from the results I had after 3 weeks and blood tests showed a 150% jump 6 week after use of that one supplement a couple years ago, let me see if I can find some of the pages I've seen in the past on these.
 
vujade

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Out of curiosity, show me studies showing Lax, NMDA or Trib effecting Test levels.
Trib doesnt boost test levels, but it does boost LH. Which would be similar to using HCG to reboot the HPTA.
So if you want to boost test levels, you might as well boost LH.
 
NoAddedHmones

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Trib doesnt boost test levels, but it does boost LH. Which would be similar to using HCG to reboot the HPTA.
So if you want to boost test levels, you might as well boost LH.
terrestris or alatus?
 
KilaCali

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heres an abstract regarding a study regarding NMDA
Blockage of N-methyl-D-aspartate receptors decreases testosterone levels and enhances postnatal neuronal apoptosis in the preoptic area of male rats. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10859492

Here's another very interesting one, you have to take them with a grain of salt of course,
Heavy Resistance Training and Supplementation With the Alleged Testosterone Booster Nmda has No Effect on Body Composition, Muscle Performance, and Serum Hormones Associated With the Hypothalamo-Pituitary-Gonadal Axis in Resistance-Trained Males
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3918557/
^
Key Points
•In response to 28 days of heavy resistance training and NMDA supplementation, similar increases in muscle mass and strength in both groups occurred; however, the increases were not different between supplement groups.

•The supplementation of NMDA had no preferential effect on augmenting testosterone or decreasing estrogen, cortisol, and prolactin.

•While resistance training was effective in increasing muscle mass and strength, it was not preferentially due to NMDA supplementation.

•At the dose provided, NMDA supplementation for 28 days combined with resistance training does not increases muscle mass and strength due to its ability to elevate endogenous testosterone levels and lower cortisol and prolactin when compared to placebo.

theres a few on Trib where it doesn't work like a study done for 28 days on rugby players with no changes, and others where it mostly works on subjects human or animal with impotency issues maybe good for a PCT test booster more then anything, as the author says of the various studies
When looking at animal and human evidence, there is sporadic evidence to suggest an increase in testosterone with this herb in rodents but it has repeatedly failed to increase testosterone in humans. There may be a weak increase in testosterone in infertile men, but this needs to be explored more you never know if combining it with other things can possibly enhance the effects or negate them but honestly i bring it up because ive talked to individuals that have had blood tested specially after PCT that have had good results with it, of course they had other natural things to go with it. heres one anyways for curiosity done on rams and another one rugby players;
[Use of tribestan on rams with sexual disorders].http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/362995

The effect of five weeks of Tribulus terrestris supplementation on muscle strength and body composition during preseason training in elite rugby league players.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17530942/

as far as lax theres like one old study so far, don't know why theres no new ones to be found yet, but 8 out of 10 people see results related to it possibly raising test, or atleast having effects similar to that, I myself experienced it first hand, I used it for 6 months back in '09 in an oral form at 50-75mg once a day and like I said it was with NMDA32.5mg and 75mgArimistane and to tell the truth it felt very similar to when I ran my first PH (Halo at 100mg) when I finish my PCT I should do my own study and run it solo for a month and see what happens and get bloods, that would be interesting and I would def. share the results. anyways that's the most I can do with my limited time im running back and fourth and adding to this for the last 30 minutes just to satisfy your curiosity ;)
 
kboxer7

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those studies are hit & miss with DAA and as long as you got the DIM something to balance out the ratio its covered, you could always throw in 25-50mg of arimistane its still not proven for a solid AI but I believe in it for anti cortisol/test boosting/anti estrogen and its not going to mess with anything. ive had GREAT success wirth 5a-hydroxy in oral form and the transdermal ive used is DermaSTR3NGTH from OL and its worked great for me! I ran my first natty cycle with 5a-hydroxy/methyl-aspartic-acid/arimistane and it was awesome by the 3rd week. and tribulus from what Ive seen and experienced still has a place in there but you can always leave it out! its your special stack so you make the call with your research and peoples experience/opinions.. Good luck! let us know what you decide on. oh and Test is test, with the right ingredients youll be able to lower SHBG so your total test will reflect more on FREE test and it will all be for the better! things like DIM/Forskolin/Boron/D3/K2 all lower SHBG to a certain degree and metabolize E2 so you get more test out of everything.
Love the feedback man. Thanks for the support!
 
KilaCali

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Love the feedback man. Thanks for the support!
N/P Man, anytime, hope atleast a little bit of anything I mentioned helps! as long as even one word makes a positive difference then it was worth it lol ;) keep us posted like I said on what you decide and hopefully you decide to log it, you could come out with some break through T-booster or who knows what else!
 
Jiigzz

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NMDA is neurotoxic. Dont touch that stuff woth a ten foot pole
 
vujade

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Tribulus Terrastris

Wasn't it included in the 1st version of Sup3r PCT ?
No idea? was it? guess its no longer in the for a reason...
sup3r-pct_ingredients.png


Yes, it was included. So I would assume that it was included because a quality Trib does do something for
the HPTA if it has a high percentage extract of protodioscine.

All of the misinformation about Tribulus Terrastris has been around for many years. In fact, the misinformation
has been around a lot longer then its inclusion of Sup3r PCT 1.0.

The truth is, is that Tribulus Terrastris does not boost test or LH. its the protodioscin & furostanol saponins
that are needed for it to be effective.

Most companies have not even heard of Protodioscin. And even if they have, they are using Trib with a lower
percentage extract. In my 25 years of being around Bodybuilding, i've only know one company that had a real
Trib product with a high yield of protodioscin, and that was Sopharma TrIbestan.

The reason why so many people feel that Trib does nothing, is because most companies are selling Tribulus
Terrastris with little to no protodioscin. It's similar to how Stinging Nettle by inself doesn't do much, but the
isolated extract Divanil is what you want. Lots of companies offer Stinging Nettle, but it does not do much
for people in regards to test boosting the way Divanil does.

There's reason Tribestan still costs $40 to $50 per box for a month supply & has been able to stay around
for decades now. Most younger guys know nothing of the product, because all they've heard is Tribulus is
bunk, and the misinformation keeps getting passed on.

Im sure Danes can share his knowledge of the subject better them me.
 
Danes

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View attachment 121686

Yes, it was included. So I would assume that it was included because a quality Trib does do something for
the HPTA if it has a high percentage extract of protodioscine.

All of the misinformation about Tribulus Terrastris has been around for many years. In fact, the misinformation
has been around a lot longer then its inclusion of Sup3r PCT 1.0.

The truth is, is that Tribulus Terrastris does not boost test or LH. its the protodioscin & furostanol saponins
that are needed for it to be effective.

Most companies have not even heard of Protodioscin. And even if they have, they are using Trib with a lower
percentage extract. In my 25 years of being around Bodybuilding, i've only know one company that had a real
Trib product with a high yield of protodioscin, and that was Sopharma TrIbestan.

The reason why so many people feel that Trib does nothing, is because most companies are selling Tribulus
Terrastris with little to no protodioscin. It's similar to how Stinging Nettle by inself doesn't do much, but the
isolated extract Divanil is what you want. Lots of companies offer Stinging Nettle, but it does not do much
for people in regards to test boosting the way Divanil does.

There's reason Tribestan still costs $40 to $50 per box for a month supply & has been able to stay around
for decades now. Most younger guys know nothing of the product, because all they've heard is Tribulus is
bunk, and the misinformation keeps getting passed on.

Im sure Danes can share his knowledge of the subject better them me.
Totaly agree here.
There are many Tribulus Terrestris products claiming to have high % of Protodioscin (the main active steroidal saponin).
There is no reason to ingest Trib containi g 40-90% steroidal saponins where there is maybe 1% or not even 1% of protodioscin but just other "inactive" saponins.
Tribestan is high in Protodioscin and Protogracillin and thats the reason why it cost more than other Trib products
 

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Were the test increases in free or total test?

Also where you running anything else the time or were you coming off a cycle? 150% is extremely high for natty test boosters


Didn't really say the NMDA or Lax increased Test, but I used them with arimistane in a cycle for my first natural one and from the results I had after 3 weeks and blood tests showed a 150% jump 6 week after use of that one supplement a couple years ago, let me see if I can find some of the pages I've seen in the past on these.
 
KilaCali

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Were the test increases in free or total test?

Also where you running anything else the time or were you coming off a cycle? 150% is extremely high for natty test boosters
sorry about late reply, thought I posted this last night and just noticed it still sittin open in my browser;

No, I had never ran a cycle at all, it was my very first cycle of anything I was using a supplement called Singularity from a small time company they sold it at the supplementgiant by me so me and my buddy picked up a few bottles it had 50mg 5a-hydroxy-laxogenin, 35 or 37mg methyl-l-aspartic acid and 75mg arimistane (androst 3,5-dien-7,17-dione) after about the 3rd week I really noticed added aggression, felt like I was melting off fat but gaining muscle too, I enjoyed it for my first ever cycle, and it was total test was the big jump, free test had an increase I cant recall if it was significant but it was the second time I ever had them test my hormones or atleast test and it went from the mid 500's to around 650 so not 150% but 150 ng/dl I meant
 
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