Best all legal body building options

[BDR]

So what do you guys thing is the best option for someone who is looking for a all legal performance enhancer that would include pct. I am 33y/o and been lifting natty since I was 15y/o. With children and career I am working out about x5 per week for 45 mins per session. I am not sure how I feel about sarms given all the potential side effects including infertility as my wife would still like more kids. 1 andro and 4 andro seem rather costly for a dose that may or may not be effective. I am waiting for some laxogenin to arrive but I get the feeling I might as well have ordered fairy dust. Anyone got any recs or ideas. I need to stay legal as a felony would automatically take my professional license away. Thanks in advance!

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

hey brother have a look at black lion research.. we have the famed Follidrone2.0 and are getting ready to drop a brand new legal natural anabolic that in house testing has been mind boggling... guys are putting on 5-10lbs of lean tissue during testing!!! with no other changes in their programs..
any how have a look at the follidrone logs.. there is a reason everyone loves this product~ it works! and it too is all natural. also are you familiar with ArA?

 

[wesb2387]

Beat me to it @R1pp3Rx you really can’t go wrong with anything from the BLR line. An FD2/Viron/Letrone stack for 8 weeks would be awesome. Add in Vector when it’s released

Other solid products are ARA(not a fan but a ton of guys love it), Massmax xt from Performax or DTPV3 from Get Diesel are all good choices.

 

[user567]

Save your money with that criteria.

 

[BDR]

Thanks for the advice. I'll check out the products recommended. I appreciate the honesty 567. That is kinda what I figured.

 

[The Express 42]

X gels are a great option and can be stacked with some other quality anabolics such as Laxogenin. I would love to stack X gels with SNS and Massacre by OL in the near future

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Thanks for the advice. I'll check out the products recommended. I appreciate the honesty 567. That is kinda what I figured.

I cant say the same for Follidrone or Vector, but the ArA has human data showing its efficacy. I can appreciate what 567 is saying but I disagree.. there are some dope natural products out right now, and thats coming from someone who uses AAS.
Besides, as you noted its hard to find properly dosed andro products these days and it sounds like the FDA is going to remove these from the market now too.. leaving your options that fit your needs even more slim. save your money is right.. save it for vector!

use cycles of vector and folidrone then break out into an ArA cycle once you hit a plateau~ wash rince repete.. .

 

[yates84]

Trestolone. Completely legal and is better than any scheduled aas. There are a bunch of great orals available as well that are completely legal and can put 10 pounds of quality mass on you in a month or so. If you do ever decide to run illegal gear just keep it at the house and don’t ride around with it and it won’t be an issue anyway.

 

[christ83189]

Trestolone. Completely legal and is better than any scheduled aas. There are a bunch of great orals available as well that are completely legal and can put 10 pounds of quality mass on you in a month or so. If you do ever decide to run illegal gear just keep it at the house and don’t ride around with it and it won’t be an issue anyway.

How does trestolone compare to dmz or m1a? Ive been out of the loop for a bit so ive never heard of it

 

[Chasingtails]

The problem with anything hormonal is that you’re going to need a proper PCT, which has you getting pharmaceuticals without a script. You can go RC, but then you’re using something that’s “not meant for human consumption.” So, either way, you’re technically over the line. With that in mind, I agree with whoever said to save your money because there’s just not a whole lot out there

Now, that being said, as a fellow professional who stood to lose his license, ive run several cycles without anything close to a legal issue. I’ve gotta agree with Yates on the fact that you’re not going to run into trouble unless you’re being a complete idiot (or manufacturing and selling)

 

[scoooter]

Androgens and/or adaptive supp's might be something to try.

.....The rep's sure have strong presence in your thread

 

[BDR]

I figured as much. This is my first post on a BBing website so I had no idea what kind of response I would get. I just want honest opinions on stuff that actually works that would be a good starting place for someone that is looking to get there foot wet in the world of anabolics. I've done tons of research on SARMs but after the JAMA article that was published last November I can't say I could feel confident that what I would be taking would even be worth the risks. Any thoughts on that? I would love to hop on a test cycle but legally I would be screwed with a bunch student loans ect... really the only things I could come up with that might get decent result would be 1 andro or 4 andro. I will definetly check out ARA as that seems like something that might have some pharmacology to back it up.

 

[BDR]

Will also check out Trestolone, is that a research chem steroid, assume full pct will be required? Sounds like it would be very effective but probably not a good starting point?

 

[jameschoi]

There is a SR9009 bio avail coming out soon.

 

[scoooter]

Will also check out Trestolone, is that a research chem steroid, assume full pct will be required? Sounds like it would be very effective but probably not a good starting point?

yep, full pct. Also it can be wet so you may want to run an AI. Best to read up on it and know its pro's & con's up front

 

[scoooter]

There is a SR9009 bio avail coming out soon.

heard there is some new gelz avail, were you saying bio avail as an oral ?

 

[jameschoi]

heard there is some new gelz avail, were you saying bio avail as an oral ?

An orally active SR9009 derivative from ircbio

 

[user567]

Trest is not something you want to run your first go around!

Bottom line anything worth running requires a PCT with a SERM which technically is illegal to obtain as they are prescription drugs.

 

[BDR]

Thanks! I figured there was no legal secret fountain of youth. I was kind of naive to think otherwise. I will just stick with the basics. Hard work training and a good diet!

 

[HAMinTheTrap]

There are a bunch of great orals available as well that are completely legal and can put 10 pounds of quality mass on you in a month or so.

like what? would love to hear what you recommend specifically

 

[Whisky]

I think you need to decide if you want to go anabolic (i.e something that requires pct) or not first.

All legal is a grey area in my opinion but how far into the grey you are prepared to go is going to make a difference on the answer.

If you want no grey (no research chems, prescription meds with no prescriptions, ph's shipped from uk etc) then stuff like ara and folidrone is where your at.

Results wont be on a par with a decent ph though......

 

[JoePaul39]

Trest is not something you want to run your first go around!

Bottom line anything worth running requires a PCT with a SERM which technically is illegal to obtain as they are prescription drugs.

I am not interested in violating the law either. Do you think if one runs the andros, but instead of a SERM uses an over the counter PCT like Kings Guard from Olympus Labs, and natty test boosters like Alpha Jym and DAA, along with some Laxogenin and ARA it would be possible to at least keep some of the gains?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

brother if you aint keeping some of the gainz from every cycle... your doing it wrong. look.. can you gain from 1 andro ?? yes you can.. do you need PCT? that is up to you. no one is holding you to it... ive done a lot of cycles with no PCT back in the day before most people ran one. I think the major thing is continuing to work hard whether on a cycle or not. that's what will help you keep the gains.. also a lot of people tend to pull back calories after they finish a cycle and that probably doesn't help the cause a lot..

 

[BDR]

JP39 sounds like you are in the exact same boat as me. I was thinking of trying some 1andro 4andro 100mg each twice a day for 30 days but honestly I'm afraid of pct with an over the counter product... how suppressive would that be? I am willing to perhaps try a SERM from a research company if you guys think that would be essential. The problem I have with research companies is that there products are not held to the same standards as pharm or even vet drugs. The JAMA article I referred to showed that some of the stuff that was being sold as sarms were severely underdosed, contain no active ingredient, or in some cases contained a different chemical than what was on the label. With something as important as pct an your hormonal function I'm not sure it's worth it unless you have a legit source for serms.

 

[Whisky]

JP39 sounds like you are in the exact same boat as me. I was thinking of trying some 1andro 4andro 100mg each twice a day for 30 days but honestly I'm afraid of pct with an over the counter product... how suppressive would that be? I am willing to perhaps try a SERM from a research company if you guys think that would be essential. The problem I have with research companies is that there products are not held to the same standards as pharm or even vet drugs. The JAMA article I referred to showed that some of the stuff that was being sold as sarms were severely underdosed, contain no active ingredient, or in some cases contained a different chemical than what was on the label. With something as important as pct an your hormonal function I'm not sure it's worth it unless you have a legit source for serms.

Easy answer is to buy from a legit source that has been used for many years by many people.....personally I would also only go for pharma grade but the board sponsor pre has excellent reviews on its research chems

 

[Georgiepecker]

Trestolone. Completely legal and is better than any scheduled aas. There are a bunch of great orals available as well that are completely legal and can put 10 pounds of quality mass on you in a month or so. If you do ever decide to run illegal gear just keep it at the house and don’t ride around with it and it won’t be an issue anyway.

How exactly is it legal? It simply wasn’t called out by name as a S3 drug but is an AAS which arenunder an umbrella ban

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

PRE is trustworthy and has anything you need for proper PCT. however their products are not for human consumption.

anyhow... 1 andro is the only andro on the market worth anything. the others are far too weak. 300 mgs per day is the studied dose. the more you take the worse the lethargy will be..

 

[wesb2387]

PRE is trustworthy and has anything you need for proper PCT. however their products are not for human consumption.

anyhow... 1 andro is the only andro on the market worth anything. the others are far too weak. 300 mgs per day is the studied dose. the more you take the worse the lethargy will be..

I agree with the 1 Andro. Epiandro dosed higher is pretty good for preworkout boost. 750mg a day isn’t bad at all.

 

[BDR]

I will check that out thank you. How suppressive would a 1 andro 4 andro 100 mg each twice a day stack be? Would otc pct suffice? Would the stack itself even do anything? I'm looking for increased gym motivation, strength, add maybe 5lbs lean muscle and if possible burn some belly fat.

 

[Whisky]

I will check that out thank you. How suppressive would a 1 andro 4 andro 100 mg each twice a day stack be? Would otc pct suffice? Would the stack itself even do anything? I'm looking for increased gym motivation, strength, add maybe 5lbs lean muscle and if possible burn some belly fat.

I ran my first cycle last year (1/4/epiandro) bro, after loads of research I came to a clear conclusion that if I wasn’t prepared to do it at proper doses for a proper length then I shouldn’t do it at all.

At any amount it’s going to mess with your natural hormones. My view was if I’m messing with my hormones I may as well get the max out of it (I really enjoyed it btw).

Your call but that’s where I got to.....

 

[BDR]

Whisky What did you do for pct?

 

[Whisky]

Whisky What did you do for pct?

Clomid 50/25/25/12.5 plus natty test booster and reduce xt.

After pct I was up 7lbs (all lean) and strength was way up (30lbs + on squat and dead) - kept all the strength gains......

 

[BDR]

That is exactly what I am hoping to do! Thanks! For clomid I assume research chemical and do you remember what the dose for your epi/1/4 andro stack was? I found a few products on eBay that actually have decent amounts but it looks like they are few and far between.

 

[Whisky]

That is exactly what I am hoping to do! Thanks! For clomid I assume research chemical and do you remember what the dose for your epi/1/4 andro stack was? I found a few products on eBay that actually have decent amounts but it looks like they are few and far between.

I used pharma grade clomid bro (google and research - honestly not as hard as you think to get)

Stack was 340/340/700 to start with but I pushed the epiandro up to 1,000 early on and the 1&4 to 510 for the last 4 weeks.

Predator nutrition I used for the andros - uk company that shop to states (I’m in the uk but friends on here over the pond I know have used successfully)

I have a full cycle log in the cycle logs section - probably page 2 or 3 and you’ll see it if you want full info.

Lethargy hit hard a few times but nothing unbearable, sleep was hard in first week but settled down. The upsides massively outweighed the downsides. I looked the best I have ever have when on and when in pct (lost a little of the hardness and vascularity after pct but still look better now than I did before).

 

[JoePaul39]

JP39 sounds like you are in the exact same boat as me. I was thinking of trying some 1andro 4andro 100mg each twice a day for 30 days but honestly I'm afraid of pct with an over the counter product... how suppressive would that be? I am willing to perhaps try a SERM from a research company if you guys think that would be essential. The problem I have with research companies is that there products are not held to the same standards as pharm or even vet drugs. The JAMA article I referred to showed that some of the stuff that was being sold as sarms were severely underdosed, contain no active ingredient, or in some cases contained a different chemical than what was on the label. With something as important as pct an your hormonal function I'm not sure it's worth it unless you have a legit source for serms.

Rebirth by Black Lion Research is a legal over the counter natural SERM (not from a research company) that many on this board approve of and many have had good results on with PCT if only running a mild prohormone such as the andros. You can do a search for it on the forum and read posts about it.

 

[Chasingtails]

JP39 sounds like you are in the exact same boat as me. I was thinking of trying some 1andro 4andro 100mg each twice a day for 30 days but honestly I'm afraid of pct with an over the counter product... how suppressive would that be? I am willing to perhaps try a SERM from a research company if you guys think that would be essential. The problem I have with research companies is that there products are not held to the same standards as pharm or even vet drugs. The JAMA article I referred to showed that some of the stuff that was being sold as sarms were severely underdosed, contain no active ingredient, or in some cases contained a different chemical than what was on the label. With something as important as pct an your hormonal function I'm not sure it's worth it unless you have a legit source for serms.

The other problem with this plan is that it would be a waste of money my man. Any effect you get from 200 mg of 1&4 andro a day for four weeks is going to be placebo.

For something to cause bodybuilding benefits, it is going to have to raise test and/or dht levels above your baselines. When you exceed your baseline levels, shutdown occurs. If you take something that only gets you to baseline, then you will have the same growth as always and no shutdown. That’s the trade off

 

[uprightrows]

For something to cause bodybuilding benefits, it is going to have to raise test and/or dht levels above your baselines. When you exceed your baseline levels, shutdown occurs. If you take something that only gets you to baseline, then you will have the same growth as always and no shutdown. That’s the trade off

That's not exactly true, even a replacement dose that takes you to base line will shut you down. If you are getting the baseline amount from an exogenous source, your body will stop making LH and FSH and by extension testosterone, That's why everyone on TRT is completely shut down.

 

[Jinsun]

I used pharma grade clomid bro (google and research - honestly not as hard as you think to get)

Stack was 340/340/700 to start with but I pushed the epiandro up to 1,000 early on and the 1&4 to 510 for the last 4 weeks.

Thats an expensive cycle. T cyp would have been much much cheaper. Seeing as you got probably shutdown dont see much reason why not go with t...?

 

[Whisky]

Thats an expensive cycle. T cyp would have been much much cheaper. Seeing as you got probably shutdown dont see much reason why not go with t...?

Yep it was crazy expensive but I’m a big ***** with needles. Trying to resolve that so I can pin down the line (totally agree it’s better and safer) but it’s gonna take me some time to get there.

 

[Jinsun]

Yep it was crazy expensive but I’m a big ***** with needles. Trying to resolve that so I can pin down the line (totally agree it’s better and safer) but it’s gonna take me some time to get there.

Fair enough

It makes sense if doing such high doses of PH's that shut you down just as if taking aas.

 

[Whisky]

Fair enough

It makes sense if doing such high doses of PH's that shut you down just as if taking aas.

Yep for sure.

There is also the legality factor. I’m in the uk so can literally walk into a legit shop and buy the better ph’s (or sarms) otc.

That was a factor in my earlier thought process. As I’ve learned more I now appreciate that for health and other benefits pinning is best, short term I’ll just use up the ph stash I have

 

[Chasingtails]

That's not exactly true, even a replacement dose that takes you to base line will shut you down. If you are getting the baseline amount from an exogenous source, your body will stop making LH and FSH and by extension testosterone, That's why everyone on TRT is completely shut down.

My post was a gross oversimplification of the mechanics of shutdown in an attempt to explain why natural products aren’t likely to give the OP any benefit.

Also, the whole point of trt is to remedy the fact that your body has a low baseline level. So that 100-200 cruise dose is going to keep exogenous test levels higher than your endogenous baseline

 

[uprightrows]

Even if you have normal or above average T levels and aren't a candidate for TRT, 100-200mg of test will completely shut you down