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BCAA mega-dose experiment results

Beast

Beast

"He's not human!"
As I mentioned in the "Xtend vs. ICE" thread, myself and a few other people are experimenting with taking high doses of BCAA. I just competed my 4 week experiment using 7 servings of Scivation's Xtend per day. Nutrient totals per day:
BCAA: 49 grams
L-Glutamine: 17.5 grams
Citrulline-Malate: 7 grams

My diet was
Protein: 300 grams (lowered from 350 for this experiment)
Carbs: 450 grams (workout days) and 200 grams (rest days)
Fat: 70 grams

Training
Mon/Fri: Chest/Back/Arms
Wed/Sat: Legs/Shoulders/Traps

Xtend Dosing Schedule
Pre-workout: 1 serving
During Workout: 1 serving
Post Workout: 1 serving
1 PM: 1 serving
4 PM: 1 serving
7 PM: 1 serving
10 PM: 1 serving

4 Week Results
Lean Mass: +7 lbs.
Fat Mass: -3 lbs.

Spreadsheets are attached

I will post the others results when I get them.
 

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Good deal man. Might have to look into buying some BCAA's in bulk.

Your measurements are pretty much identical to mine. What kind of body type do you have?
 
natedogg said:
Good deal man. Might have to look into buying some BCAA's in bulk.

Your measurements are pretty much identical to mine. What kind of body type do you have?
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Mesomorph (attaching a pic from last summer)
 

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What effect do you think the additonal citrulline and glutamine had if any?
 
Aeternitatis said:
What effect do you think the additonal citrulline and glutamine had if any?
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Citrulline definitely improves exercise performance and endurance.
Glutamine, hard to say when one is hypercaloric.
 
So basically a kilo of BCAA's at 50 grams a day would yeild 20 days worth of supplementation. Hmmm, is there anyone else who did one of these logs? Was their BCAA intake different from yours?
 
natedogg said:
So basically a kilo of BCAA's at 50 grams a day would yeild 20 days worth of supplementation. Hmmm, is there anyone else who did one of these logs? Was their BCAA intake different from yours?
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There are some others using Xtend, some using ICE, and some using bulk BCAA. All are using around 30-50 grams/day.
 
Derek_aka_Beast said:
Citrulline definitely improves exercise performance and endurance.
Glutamine, hard to say when one is hypercaloric.
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What did Layne have to say about the l-glut? :p

Great results, bro. I'd love to see some updated pics. 7lbs of lbm is incredible for one month.

K
 
Man...$40/month for BCAA mego dosing....I'd love to try it, but I hate being a poor college kid :(

Do you think that for any reason a bit of this mass if from glycogen retention?

I was surprised by that quick change in BW followed be a plateu for the last 2 weeks.

BTW, your freggin quads look awesome...what are some of your fav quad exorcises?
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
Man...$40/month for BCAA mego dosing....I'd love to try it, but I hate being a poor college kid :(

Do you think that for any reason a bit of this mass if from glycogen retention?

I was surprised by that quick change in BW followed be a plateu for the last 2 weeks.

BTW, your freggin quads look awesome...what are some of your fav quad exorcises?
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Leucine does increase glycogen synthase activity, so it is possible some weight is increased glycogen/water storage. It think the initial large increase after the first week was an increase in glycogen/water, which set the stage for further actual growth over the next 3 weeks. I definitely think BCAA are beneficial during all times, but even more so during cutting.

As for the quads, heavy squats, what else :)
I prefer squats in the 3-5 rep range and 20 rep sets.
 
Derek_aka_Beast said:
Leucine does increase glycogen synthase activity, so it is possible some weight is increased glycogen/water storage. It think the initial large increase after the first week was an increase in glycogen/water, which set the stage for further actual growth over the next 3 weeks. I definitely think BCAA are beneficial during all times, but even more so during cutting.
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Yeah, I figured...I'd be curious to see what would happen if this experiment were drug out for atleast another month. I'd love to see if the mass increases continue.
As for the quads, heavy squats, what else :)
I prefer squats in the 3-5 rep range and 20 rep sets.
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I should have guessed :p Do you take a relatively close stance?

I'd been taking a sumo stance lately b/c of knee problems , and almost all of my development has been upper quads and hips. It sucks. LOL. Maybe if I just wrap really tight it will help.

I've also been considering that 20 rep set. Everyone is having such great results!
 
Try wrapping your knees super tight, my buddy knox was having knee problems and started wrapping his knees and it helped the problem 100%. It is kinda weird at first because you cant feel your feet due to lack of blood flow but you get used to it. Sorry bout the hijack.

Nice results Derek, I am definetly giving this a shot, especially considering my pct is 3 weeks away :( I am really dreading it lol.
 
Nate Dawg said:
Try wrapping your knees super tight, my buddy knox was having knee problems and started wrapping his knees and it helped the problem 100%. It is kinda weird at first because you cant feel your feet due to lack of blood flow but you get used to it. Sorry bout the hijack.

Nice results Derek, I am definetly giving this a shot, especially considering my pct is 3 weeks away :( I am really dreading it lol.
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Thanks, I'll do that. My legs are lagging' b/c I wasn't working them out w/ my bad knees. I def. need to bring them up.

Sorry 'bout the hijack Derek :D
 
Nate Dawg said:
Nice results Derek, I am definetly giving this a shot, especially considering my pct is 3 weeks away :( I am really dreading it lol.
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Yeah Nate, I had mentioned in a previous thread that mega-dosing BCAA should be very benficial during PCT. I you need/want any help setting up a dosing schedule, let me know.
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
Thanks, I'll do that. My legs are lagging' b/c I wasn't working them out w/ my bad knees. I def. need to bring them up.

Sorry 'bout the hijack Derek :D
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Hijack away. It's good discussion, so it is fine by me.

Luckily I've never had problems with my knees. I worked up to 495 X 3 reps on squats, then I backed down to 405 and am doing 3 sets of 5. I'll add 10 lbs. to the bar each week until I get back up to 495. As much as I like going heavy, using 500 pounds on squats is a lot of a workout weight.
 
Good God. You are 21?

Man, you got some hella genetics, huh? What does your pops look like?

What are you current stats?
 
jmh80 said:
Good God. You are 21?

Man, you got some hella genetics, huh? What does your pops look like?

What are you current stats?
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I just read Derek somewhere commenting how he loves the genetics comments. While genetics are definitely a factor, this kid is super-loco-anal-meticulous when it comes to training, diet, etc. Without his learning and dedication he would look nothing like he does.
 
Beowulf said:
I just read Derek somewhere commenting how he loves the genetics comments. While genetics are definitely a factor, this kid is super-loco-anal-meticulous when it comes to training, diet, etc. Without his learning and dedication he would look nothing like he does.
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Bump that. That's what it takes above and beyond genetics.

Genetics help, but they'll only get you so far.

Derek, how long have you been busting your ass to look the way you do? Genetics comments are always nice, but sometimes they can be bothersome...like "do you ever stop and think I invest a lot of my life in this sport ant that has something to do with my appearance?"
 
Beo - I agree - meant no disrepct, but you just don't see kids at that age that look like that unless gear/PH's are involved and I thought I read he doesn't take them. At least that's my experience from what I've seen in my neck of the woods growing up.

Derek - you have an excellent physique. One could only hope to look as lean and muscular.
 
Thanks for the compliments. I certainly didn't get my bodybuilding genetics from my dad, he is 6'1" and was skinny (pure ecto). Now he has the common beer gut and man-boobs, but super skinny arms and legs.

I actually get my "beast" genetics from my mom's side of the family, which is shorter and thicker (meso-endo type).

Ecto + Meso/Endo = Me :)

I've been weight training since I was 15 and started to get serious when I turned 16. I became obsessed when I was 17 and now I am here.
 
You mind telling us your nutrition/supp routine?

I see your workout routine above, is that your normal routine? How many sets per bodypart and reps per set?

Oh about the experiment - you guys averaged 7 lean gained, 3 fat lost? What were the specific numbers for each of you? (If you have them.)
 
jmh80 said:
Beo - I agree - meant no disrepct, but you just don't see kids at that age that look like that unless gear/PH's are involved and I thought I read he doesn't take them. At least that's my experience from what I've seen in my neck of the woods growing up.....
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Well, there are some ppl that grow well ;)
 
jmh80 said:
You mind telling us your nutrition/supp routine?

I see your workout routine above, is that your normal routine? How many sets per bodypart and reps per set?

Oh about the experiment - you guys averaged 7 lean gained, 3 fat lost? What were the specific numbers for each of you? (If you have them.)
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Those were my numbers. I gained 7 pounds of lean mass while losing 3 pounds of fat over 4 weeks. I am attaching my basic diet and workout.

Supp Schedule
30 minutes Pre-Workout
1 Serving NeuroStim plus 1 GXR

15 minutes Pre-workout
Shake as listed creatine (CreaForm), Diarginine-Malate (NitroCharge), 500 mg NAC

Post Workout
Shake as listed plus Creatine, 1 GXR, 500 mg NAC, and 1 serving NOxidant

4 PM
1 serving Lean Green

Bedtime
1 serving SesaThin, 1 GXR, and 500 mg NAC
 

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See what I mean about the meticulousness: Invalid Link Removed
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Of course, the ability to pay that much attention to detail could be genetic as well.
 
HSN Driver is a casein protein powder: Invalid Link Removed

I worked the Scivation/PrimaForce booth at the Olympia then at the Arnold and I became a Scivation/PrimaForce employee two weeks ago.
 
Interesting workout routine. Any reason you do 2 chest exercises then 2 back exercises and then another 1-2 chest exercises. Is this just to allow your chest a solid rest before hitting it hard again?

Also what are X pulldowns and beast laterals?
 
Sticks said:
Interesting workout routine. Any reason you do 2 chest exercises then 2 back exercises and then another 1-2 chest exercises. Is this just to allow your chest a solid rest before hitting it hard again?

Also what are X pulldowns and beast laterals?
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Actually I alternate between chest and back exercises. So I'll do a set on incline bench then a set of pull-ups, then go back to incline bench. I alternate between most antagonist muscle groups, which allows each muscle to rest more and saves time.

Those are two of my secret exercises :twisted:
 
So that table that you gave, is that your complete diet, it comes up to around 3000 cals so I am assuming so, just doesnt seem like much real food until you get to the middle of the day, I am guessing that is because you work out in the morning? Is that your maintenance diet? How tall are you and what do you weigh?
 
I think I know what the two secret exercises may be!!!!! One of them I think can be found in the last MD if what I think is right and I have a feeling Beast Laterals may be like something Mr. Charles Class uses....hehehe....am I right Derek!
 
Derek_aka_Beast said:
Actually I alternate between chest and back exercises. So I'll do a set on incline bench then a set of pull-ups, then go back to incline bench. I alternate between most antagonist muscle groups, which allows each muscle to rest more and saves time.

Those are two of my secret exercises :twisted:
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Are you taking any rest between each exercise. Or do you super set them and do chest then back w/out resting and then rest before the next super set.

It just looks like a really long and high volume workout. Not sure if i could productively work through +20 sets during a single workout (but then i've never tried). Doing supersets would obviously help as they would be faster. How long does it normally take you to comlete a workout?

What are your thoughts on training to failure?
 
Nate Dawg said:
So that table that you gave, is that your complete diet, it comes up to around 3000 cals so I am assuming so, just doesnt seem like much real food until you get to the middle of the day, I am guessing that is because you work out in the morning? Is that your maintenance diet? How tall are you and what do you weigh?
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Yes, this was around my maintenance cals. I put my cals at maintenance to really test what how doses of BCAA would do, as I would gain if my cals were higher with or without the BCAA.

I workout in the morning, so I use shakes/whey surrounding my workout.

I am 5'10" and 212 pounds right now.
 
MaNiaK1027 said:
I think I know what the two secret exercises may be!!!!! One of them I think can be found in the last MD if what I think is right and I have a feeling Beast Laterals may be like something Mr. Charles Class uses....hehehe....am I right Derek!
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I don't read MD and I have no clue what Charles Glass does, so I couldn't tell you.

BTW, did you get my email?
 
Sticks said:
Are you taking any rest between each exercise. Or do you super set them and do chest then back w/out resting and then rest before the next super set.

It just looks like a really long and high volume workout. Not sure if i could productively work through +20 sets during a single workout (but then i've never tried). Doing supersets would obviously help as they would be faster. How long does it normally take you to comlete a workout?

What are your thoughts on training to failure?
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I should have metioned that I do not train to failure; I stop a rep or so shy of failure.

I rest about 1-1.5 minutes between chest/back (Tris/bis, shoulders/traps, quads/calves) exercises when I am going for 3-5 reps and 1 minute when I am going for 6-10 reps.

My workouts take about 70 minutes.
 
Derek_aka_Beast said:
BTW, did you get my email?
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Yup, just trying to write up a detailed email back....will have a reply today bro! Thanks again!
 
Derek_aka_Beast said:
I should have metioned that I do not train to failure; I stop a rep or so shy of failure.

I rest about 1-1.5 minutes between chest/back (Tris/bis, shoulders/traps, quads/calves) exercises when I am going for 3-5 reps and 1 minute when I am going for 6-10 reps.

My workouts take about 70 minutes.
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I figured that you weren't training to failure as that would be one hell of a workout. I've been training high volume low frequency for so long, I feel like I really need to change things up. Not really sure where i'm gonna go next though. Was thinking about trying DC's style of training but your routine has gotten me thinking as well. Thanks for the info.
 
Nate Dawg said:
Try wrapping your knees super tight, my buddy knox was having knee problems and started wrapping his knees and it helped the problem 100%. It is kinda weird at first because you cant feel your feet due to lack of blood flow but you get used to it. Sorry bout the hijack.
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<hijack>

be careful when employing this technique, kids. feeling your feet is a GOOD thing. you only have to look at that photo of the squatter who broke his ankle in two and had the bar land on his neck ONCE to revise your position on this...

</hijack>
 
What picture....of Jean Pierre Fux?
 
Derek_aka_Beast said:
Those are two of my secret exercises :twisted:
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Can I guess what they are? I'm gonna say that X-pulldowns are just lat pulls with your arms crossed and beast lateral raises are holding the dumbbell with a supinated grip you raise all the way above your head to hit your traps and delts. Am I right?
 
Derek_aka_Beast said:
....I alternate between most antagonist muscle groups, which allows each muscle to rest more and saves time.....
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Gonna have to give this a shot. I spend waaaay too much time in the gym for the amount of volume I work with :eek:
 
Aeternitatis said:
Can I guess what they are? I'm gonna say that X-pulldowns are just lat pulls with your arms crossed and beast lateral raises are holding the dumbbell with a supinated grip you raise all the way above your head to hit your traps and delts. Am I right?
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No sir.
 
MaNiaK1027 said:
What picture....of Jean Pierre Fux?
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saw it in a guy's avatar. dont remember what board it was. fucking brutal. fux is a bodybuilder, right? this was a powerlifter, if BF% is the main aesthetic difference. he was all crumpled up on the ground, so it was a little hard to make out details. man i am wincing just thinking about it.
 
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