**Aterall ER** Review and Feedback thread

WesleyInman

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Now that this product is out and people are trying it, does anyone have any feedback or reviews on it?

Looking to hear a variety of feedback from customers using 1, 2 and/or 3 caps at once and effects, etc, etc..

Thank you in Advance!

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hyperCat

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Did you guys get a shipping notification or tracking number? I ordered some last week but haven't received a shipping notification yet.
 
BigGame84

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Did you guys get a shipping notification or tracking number? I ordered some last week but haven't received a shipping notification yet.
Yes. I ordered the day it was available and just got my tracking info last night. It takes time to get tracking due to the payment being processed but once that's done, it's 2-day shipping.
 

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For those trying the product for the first time, start out with 3 caps and if necessary, adjust downward from there. 1 cap is basically nothing (effects barely percievble), which is why I have the serving size listed as 2-3 caps. Truth be told, prior to having the label made, the product was intended to be dosed at 3 caps with 20 servings per bottle, buI decided to make 2-2 cap serving size for those looking fir lighter effects, but keep in mind...it was indeed designed to be dosed at 3 caps.

Therefore, reviews at 1 cap aren't really reviews at all, as the product was never designed to be dosed at 1 cap. Taking 1 cap of Aterall ER would be like drinking 1/3rd of a cup of coffee and then reviewing the effectiveness of coffee based on that. Obviously, at 1/3rd of a cup it wouldn't work very well, but at the proper dose (assuming there is no tolerance build-up), coffee is quite effective at what it does.

Aterall ER is no different, which is why I recommend people STAR OUT at 3 caps per serving and if necessary, adjust downward for there. 3 caps will provide the maximum intended effect, which will allow the user to experience the product the way it as intended to be experienced. :)
 
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WesleyInman

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^^ bump ^^ for feedback
 

SouthPawSD

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Excited for feedback, I've literally been taking almost the exact thing with the exception of armodafinil instead of adrafinil and minus a few ingredients or adding others for studying for about 2 years. If it's anything like what I have, which it looks like it, than this will be pretty spectacular. I've been waiting for someone to tap into adrafinil and the phenyl for mental supplements for a while.
 
Ricky10

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Oh....Look at this! I will repost from another thread.

12/12- Since I have been weaning off Kratom- and unfortunately went back up to my full dose yesterday (rough day at work), my response to other mood enhancers/nootropics and stimulants is a bit altered. Most things are a bit altered honestly..

Despite this, I was excited to experiment with Aterall this morning. I guess I was so excited that I kind of didn’t think ahead about what I was taking it with. I took 2 capsules upon waking along with a fairly potent “fat burner” called Thermal Spark, and another capsule of a much weaker DMHA based stim that has some AY in it. It’s not abnormal at all for me to take these stims upon waking.

I then proceeded to take a spoonful of peanut butter per instructions, and I was surprised that my stomach managed to get a bit queasy. I decided to take a bit more peanut butter, and the queasy feeling seemed to resolve within 10-15 minutes. It was around this time or shortly after, I realized I was a bit over-stimmed. That’s what I get for putting things in my mouth before I wake up! I didn’t really account for the stimulants that are already included in Aterall. It wasn’t a big deal...just more than I needed at the time...haha.

So maybe 30-45 minutes later, I found myself to be very hyper-focused while I was in the bathroom getting ready to see my chiropractor. I was really dialed in while buzzing my head and shaving etc. I did not note any significant mood enhancement, or heightened auditory of visual affects at this 2 capsule dose. Then again, I was just looking at myself in the mirror while trying to ignore what I was saying to myself in my head. I can’t really say I noticed much more throughout the rest of the day, BUT I did end up dosing some Kratom before actually leaving for my chiropractor appointment- he’s a bit of a strange man that has always given me a bit of anxiety.

So that was my first experience, and it obviously had some self inflicted bumps in the road. I can tell right off though that this is not your typical focus/nootropic supplement, as this is definitely a potent product that makes a notable impact. Aside from that, it usually takes me a few times of trial and error until I determine how to best utilize supplements like these for my purposes. I definitely have some experimentation ahead of me!
 
Ricky10

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12/13- Get ready for some intense focus upon taking your first dose of three capsules 🤓. I say this based on my 2 capsule experience yesterday. Also, if you are a heavy stim user, back those off a bit. Especially if you intend to use this pre-workout and you normally take a stimulant heavy PWO product.

For anyone not part of the sponsored log, I would recommend starting at 2 caps and go from there. I do this with most supplements that I am trying for the first time anyway...just to get a feel for it. I don’t usually start off any novel product like this at full strength. I do think 2 caps will ultimately end up being the dose most people will fall back on.

My experience yesterday was more of an uneasy stomach as opposed to actual nausea. I have never gotten that from consuming too much caffeine, so I think it was something else. The only new ingredients in this formula for me are the Adrafinil, and it has been quite some time since I took Phenylpiracetam at this dose. Despite recommendations, I only took one capsule today (which was rather nice) and my stomach was ever so slightly uneasy to be honest. It wasn’t even bothersome enough that I went back to have more peanut butter though. So far, it’s not a deterrent for me, and I bet everyone will have different reactions in that aspect anyway...
 
Ricky10

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1 cap is basically nothing (effects barely percievble), which is why I have the serving size listed as 2-3 caps. Truth be told, prior to having the label made, the product was intended to be dosed at 3 caps with 20 servings per bottle, buI decided to make 2-2 cap serving size for those looking fir lighter effects, but keep in mind...it was indeed designed to be dosed at 3 caps.

Therefore, reviews at 1 cap aren't really reviews at all, as the product was never designed to be dosed at 1 cap. Taking 1 cap of Aterall ER would be like drinking 1/3rd of a cup of coffee and then reviewing the effectiveness of coffee based on that. Obviously, at 1/3rd of a cup it wouldn't work very well, but at the proper dose (assuming there is no tolerance build-up), coffee is quite effective at what it does.

Aterall ER is no different, which is why I recommend people STAR OUT at 3 caps per serving and if necessary, adjust downward for there. 3 caps will provide the maximum intended effect, which will allow the user to experience the product the way it as intended to be experienced. :)
While I agree that taking just 1 capsule by itself without anything else would likely be barely notable, I think it does have the ability to take other stimulants with nootropic properties (such as Stim-Freak) to a different level. So I do think the 1 capsule dose shows great promise in that regard. I know that isn’t particularly the way the product was designed to shine, but it is still a dosing alternative that people may end up enjoying nonetheless 🙂
 
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So far I have taken it twice. The first time I had a little breakfast before work & took dose about an Hr. After before work. I noticed an effect in about 20 min or so. Overall I had a strong Focus/Purpose mentality with a little energy. 2nd dose I took it first thing in the morning with my coffee & it kicked in kinda the same way but this time I felt more energy & drive but not really wanting to like talk to people kinda, unless I had to anyway. Also once I started to get to work I didn’t eat til 5 hours later but didn’t think about it cause I was busy. It’s been interesting so far lol. Also noticed that beginning focus/energy buzz kinda feeling can be really strong, not to good while sitting in a meeting listening to people talk
 
WesleyInman

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I know my review doesn't count as much bc I am a rep but I never lie.

I have done 1, 2 and 3 caps several times since I prob got the first units LOL

At 3 caps in the am , I have dumped 1 in my mouth and taken 2 with a cup of coffee. Within about 45 mins I notice energy, focus and some euphoria. Def can feel my brain tingle.

I do like it alot, and I feel VERY AWAKE which is amazing bc I usually am tired all the time.

On 2 occassions now I do get cranky though. It's defintely giving me a short fuse. But ephedrine and other stims can do that to me.

Not complaining.

Looking for other reviews.
 

determination

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I just placed an order for a bottle. I will try it on my next day off work and write my opinion on it. I have tried most of the ingredients by themselves or in combination with a few of the ingredients. The whole profile makes me excited to try.
 
contact13

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My first run this AM was pretty disappointing. Popped 2 with a little PB coming off a 15 hr fast. Left for work expectating some good focus and energy. An hour in I felt very little except some extra body heat. I'll give 3 a try tomorrow and report back. I have had great results with all MA products I've tried in the past. Top notch products with excellent customer service. Hopefully I'll see the same here.
 

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ATERALL ER VS. ADERALL

Customer Compares ATERALL ER to Script Drug ADDERALL Instant Release

Stewie Griffon">
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Today at 11:51 AM

Quote: "I guess I'm the first to post any feedback

My wife took 2 caps this morning

She said it feels almost identical to the effects she gets from adderall,

and that it feels stronger than 15mg of non time release U31 adderall (for those that don't know those are the best ones)

I asked her for a rough empirical value, she said maybe 30% stronger (again comparing 2 caps to 15mg non time release U31 adderall)

My personal assessment of her behavior - she looks and acts like she took adderall

When I end up taking some, I'll post my personal experience and how my workout goes"



Link: (12) ATERALL ER available NOW! | Professional Muscle Forum
 
Ricky10

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I know my review doesn't count as much bc I am a rep but I never lie.

I have done 1, 2 and 3 caps several times since I prob got the first units LOL

At 3 caps in the am , I have dumped 1 in my mouth and taken 2 with a cup of coffee. Within about 45 mins I notice energy, focus and some euphoria. Def can feel my brain tingle.

I do like it alot, and I feel VERY AWAKE which is amazing bc I usually am tired all the time.

On 2 occassions now I do get cranky though. It's defintely giving me a short fuse. But ephedrine and other stims can do that to me.
b
Not complaining.

Looking for other reviews.
Overall, my assessment is pretty dead on with yours. I wouldn’t use the word euphoria per say, but the wakefulness and improved energy definitely leads to mood improvement for me as well.

Today I took a 4th capsule mid-afternoon, and I also had a very short fuse when I proceeded to go outside to do the Christmas lights. Nothing was working out and it turns out everything was broken or half working. I was really pissed by the end of it, but I guess most of us would be. In contrast though, I know that if I had done this after taking a dose of Vicaine, I would taken everything much more in stride.
 
contact13

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*Update*

Dosed 3 caps this AM on an 18 hr fast with 1 tbs of PB. I literally felt nothing beyond what a fairly weak cup of coffee would do. Not sure where to go from here.
 

patrick25

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*Update*

Dosed 3 caps this AM on an 18 hr fast with 1 tbs of PB. I literally felt nothing beyond what a fairly weak cup of coffee would do. Not sure where to go from here.
No words just blown away by that I'm sure you are bored at parties.
 
WesleyInman

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*Update*

Dosed 3 caps this AM on an 18 hr fast with 1 tbs of PB. I literally felt nothing beyond what a fairly weak cup of coffee would do. Not sure where to go from here.
No warmness, no wakefulness, nothing sir?

Could be high tolerance? Have you been on other stims and pwo long term with no time off before trying this?

Def in my experiences with Nootropics it's very individual. Hell I had my own PWO years back (my brand) called Ultimate Punch. Now it has like 9/10 reviews and it had tons of nootropics in it. Everyone loved it, including me. I let my gf try it a few times and she said the product was a POS and did NOTHING for her LOL.

So then she tried my product BLUE, which had only noopept and a few other odds and ends, and she acted like that stuff was crack cocaine. It blew her away and in theory it was way milder LOL. Go figure.

Maybe you can take some time off and try it again at 3/4 caps even?

I actually took mine today with 50mgs of FL Modafinil and I will be honest it was even better!!!

Appreciate the honest feedback everyone :)

189331
 
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Mike Arnold

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No warmness, no wakefulness, nothing sir?

Could be high tolerance? Have you been on other stims and pwo long term with no time off before trying this?


Def in my experiences with Nootropics it's very individual. Hell I had my own PWO years back (my brand) called Ultimate Punch. Now it has like 9/10 reviews and it had tons of nootropics in it. Everyone loved it, including me. I let my gf try it a few times and she said the product was a POS and did NOTHING for her LOL.

So then she tried my product BLUE, which had only noopept and a few other odds and ends, and she acted like that stuff was crack cocaine. It blew her away and in theory it was way milder LOL. Go figure.

Maybe you can take some time off and try it again at 3/4 caps even?

I actually took mine today with 50mgs of FL Modafinil and I will be honest it was even better!!!

Appreciate the honest feedback everyone :)

View attachment 189331
Yeah, very odd. That would mean he feels nothing from 200-250 mg of modafinil (the equivalent of 500 mg adrafinil), dicaffeine malate, dynamine, theacrine, or phenylpiracetam...all of which are very noticeable for most people. Even sunifiram, being one of the most powerful noots is generally felt pretty well by the majority.

One thing I should mention is that there is a percentage of the population that does not respond well to adrafinil. They lack the enzymes necessary for converting it into modafinil, so adrafinil doesn't really work in these individuals. This only accounts for a fairly small minority of people--maybe 15% or so.

Being that adrafinil comprises a large portion of the product's effects (it is the single most powerful ingredient in the product), those who fall into this category would not experience the product the same way as others. This likely accounts for the majority saying all positive things, but a couple people saying they didn't notice that much.

Regardless, I still find it odd that someone doesn't feel 180 mg caffeine, 200 mg theacrine and 100 mg dynamine. That isn't what most would consider a tiny dose of CNS stims...unless a large tolerance is already in place.

The worst situation would be someone who both lacks the enzyme necessary for converting adrafinil into odafinil, while also having a high CNS stim tolerance. These people will not respond well to the product. However, most people are not in that boat, which accounts for the large majority of reviews being very positive.

I've seen about 20 reviews at this point (and another half dozen or so coming from Alex Kickel's clients, that he told me about today) and all have been positive accept 3 of them.
 
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contact13

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I do have a high tolerance for caffeine, although I do still feel 400mg pretty strongly, just not for a long time. I can say that I responded well to Vicane ( like we all did). Given, it had a different profile. I had a screaming Tianeptine tolerance then so the other ingredients were doing their job. Not sure if it's advisable to go 4 caps. Has anyone gone that high yet.
 

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Its avaiable international shipping or there some retail on europe for these product?
 
contact13

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Day 3 Update

Took 3 caps this am coming off an 16 hr. fast. This time I did not take with fats and it made a tremendous difference. Definitely getting a clean focused energy.
 

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Day 3 Update

Took 3 caps this am coming off an 16 hr. fast. This time I did not take with fats and it made a tremendous difference. Definitely getting a clean focused energy.
Here's the thing with ATERALL ER. Some of the ingredients absorb better on an empty stomach...and others absorb better with fats. I based on the directions for use on what I thought would yield the greatest overall effect, but in this case you may be the opposite. Regardless, I am glad you like it better this way. :)
 

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Day 3 Update

Took 3 caps this am coming off an 16 hr. fast. This time I did not take with fats and it made a tremendous difference. Definitely getting a clean focused energy.
Because of your experience, I am going to contact the loggers and ask them to please provide their experiences on both an empty stomach and with fats...and see which one they prefer. Based on their response, I may change my "directions for use" to include a recommendation to try both methods (empty stomach and with fats), so that people can see what works best for them. Thank you. I am glad you provided this feedback, as I felt like I was inbetween a rock and a hard place when trying to decide what what would be the best way to use the product. When dealing with a bunch of compounds that absorb better under different circumstances (with or without fats), it seemed like there was no perfect way to take it...so it may indeed be best to let people try both ways and decide on their own what is best. Thank you.
 
Ricky10

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So I have continued my 2 caps upon waking, and 1 capsule around lunchtime. I was at work today and I was very dialed in to getting everything done very efficiently. My short term memory is definitely improved from my baseline and it comes without effort. I picture this being quite effective if I were to cram for a test. Improved wakefulness also remains notable but I have not had any recent issues sleeping at night.

There is also an air of increased self confidence or feeling more sure about myself. While mood is generally improved, it can also go the other way quite easily in the form of agitation as I noted 2 days ago. Once things started getting annoying and stressful at work this evening- I had a very short fuse. The way in which I was working showed my frustration, and my colleagues commented about it. This further aggravated me, and I made a conscious effort to control my emotions. It mostly worked on the outside, but deep down I was still on edge and came very close to snapping at them...even though they weren’t the issue. It actually reminded me very much of how I can get when I take Wellbutrin. Note that I am known to be an extremely easy going person and even quiet/shy at baseline.

The rage-like tendency tends to come in to play hours after dosing and seems to linger for the rest of the day. I suspect it is a result of the adrafinil content, but I also wonder if it is more of a cumulative effect upon subsequent days of dosing? Despite this side effect, my experience with Aterall has still remained largely positive thus far.
 
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patrick25

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I've noticed if I don't get a really good nights sleep. If I take this the next day I crash hard on this.
 
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First, I have to say that this product is spot freaking on. Mike Arnold, I can not thank you enough for this formulation! I've tried a lot of nootropics over the years, both pre-packaged formulas and individually. Atteral ER has been unparalleled, leaps and bounds ahead of anything I've tried, in providing motivation and focus. I've been more ambitious, confident, focused, and generally a better and more productive human on days that I use it.

I do have a couple of questions, primarily based off the feeling that I want to take this every day for the rest of my life. In an abundance of caution, I've been taking it Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Am I being overly cautious, or are there any concerns with either liver toxicity from the armodafinil, or tolerance with any of the ingredients? Any suggestions for a prudently conservative approach to long term use?
 
muscleupcrohn

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So I have continued my 2 caps upon waking, and 1 capsule around lunchtime. I was at work today and I was very dialed in to getting everything done very efficiently. My short term memory is definitely improved from my baseline and it comes without effort. I picture this being quite effective if I were to cram for a test. Improved wakefulness also remains notable but I have not had any recent issues sleeping at night.

There is also an air of increased self confidence or feeling more sure about myself. While mood is generally improved, it can also go the other way quite easily in the form of agitation as I noted 2 days ago. Once things started getting annoying and stressful at work this evening- I had a very short fuse. The way in which I was working showed my frustration, and my colleagues commented about it. This further aggravated me, and I made a conscious effort to control my emotions. It mostly worked on the outside, but deep down I was still on edge and came very close to snapping at them...even though they weren’t the issue. It actually reminded me very much of how I can get when I take Wellbutrin. Note that I am known to be an extremely easy going person and even quiet/shy at baseline.

The rage-like tendency tends to come in to play hours after dosing and seems to linger for the rest of the day. I suspect it is a result of the adrafinil content, but I also wonder if it is more of a cumulative effect upon subsequent days of dosing? Despite this side effect, my experience with Aterall has still remained largely positive thus far.
I wonder what’d happen if you took it with something that was more geared toward improving mood, or reducing stress/anxiety? Maybe Sceletium or ashwagandha? If you’re going for only occasional use and can keep it that way, maybe even a standardized kava extract? Normally I’d say Adrafinil and kava together doesn’t sound the best for the liver, but it it’s only for occasional use, and you have a high-quality kava extract (I’ve read multiple papers saying that low-quality extracts play a major role in kava’s negative effects on the liver) and don’t overdo it with the dose, it MAY be worth trying, but proceed with caution. If nothing else, I’d be curious to know how it feels and if it helps once. But the sceletium and/or ashwagandha would be more sustainable and safe options.
 
Ricky10

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I wonder what’d happen if you took it with something that was more geared toward improving mood, or reducing stress/anxiety? Maybe Sceletium or ashwagandha? If you’re going for only occasional use and can keep it that way, maybe even a standardized kava extract? Normally I’d say Adrafinil and kava together doesn’t sound the best for the liver, but it it’s only for occasional use, and you have a high-quality kava extract (I’ve read multiple papers saying that low-quality extracts play a major role in kava’s negative effects on the liver) and don’t overdo it with the dose, it MAY be worth trying, but proceed with caution. If nothing else, I’d be curious to know how it feels and if it helps once. But the sceletium and/or ashwagandha would be more sustainable and safe options.
I did the same dosing today and experienced the same general mood improvement and enhanced mental as well as physical stamina. It just makes it easier to motivate myself to do my job to my expectations, as I have always been my own toughest critic and expect perfection from myself at work. Today, I did not experience the same degree of intense agitation, but I didn’t have the same level of stressors to provoke that either.

I will likely be working in a recently popular stress support supplement that contains Sensoril, Bacopa, Theanine, and Rhodiola...now that I have decided to be done with BMP which also contained Rhodiola. I also do have a supplement with a hefty Kanna dose and some 5-HTP that I have been curious to try with Aterall. Ultimately, I am not really sure on how often I plan on using Aterall though. I just haven’t really thought that far ahead about it. My primary short term goal is just to get off of Kratom and take things from there. I was hopeful Aterall would be able to help me out in that process, and it seems as though it will be a valuable tool for me.

It would be somewhat difficult for me to try Kanna or Kava with a dose of Aterall to specifically test out how it affects the agitation- as the stressors that have provoked those mental states occur on a very unpredictable basis. I could purposely try to hang some Christmas lights again that don’t work, but I’m not so sure that would accurately replicate the drama...haha!
 

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First, I have to say that this product is spot freaking on. Mike Arnold, I can not thank you enough for this formulation! I've tried a lot of nootropics over the years, both pre-packaged formulas and individually. Atteral ER has been unparalleled, leaps and bounds ahead of anything I've tried, in providing motivation and focus. I've been more ambitious, confident, focused, and generally a better and more productive human on days that I use it.

I do have a couple of questions, primarily based off the feeling that I want to take this every day for the rest of my life. In an abundance of caution, I've been taking it Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Am I being overly cautious, or are there any concerns with either liver toxicity from the armodafinil, or tolerance with any of the ingredients? Any suggestions for a prudently conservative approach to long term use?
The liver toxicity of adrafinil isn't a concern. It is extremely minor--far less than things like tylenol, oral AAS, alcohol, etc.

There are 10 ingredients in ATEALL ER. Most don't build tolerance, but some do--quickly--such as phenylpiracetam. The nootropic benefits (i.e. cognitive) of phenylpiracetam remain with continued use, but the stimulating effects do not...so you won't really feel phenylpiraetam after a week or regular use. Is this going to dramatically affect the overall feel of the product--not really. Since other compounds play a larger role in its overall feel, any loss of simulation from the phenyl will be relatively minor.

Of course, you will build a tolerance to caffeine (dicaffeine malate), as well...so you will gradually lose that stimulation over time; not entirely, but significantly. Obviously, if you lose the stimulatng effects of caffeine, it will make a difference to the overall feel of the product, but personal tolerance development plays a big role here. Not everyone builds tolerance to caffeine to the same degree.

Aside from those two ingredients, the rest don't result in any significant tolerance build-up.

So, it is really up to you. If you want to receive maximum benefit from the product, taking it 3 times weekly (like you are doing now) is a good idea, but if you don't mind a moderate loss in stimulation, daily use is fine. However, I do recommend taking at least 1-2 days off per week, even if just to allow for some degree of resensitization.
 
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I did the same dosing today and experienced the same general mood improvement and enhanced mental as well as physical stamina. It just makes it easier to motivate myself to do my job to my expectations, as I have always been my own toughest critic and expect perfection from myself at work. Today, I did not experience the same degree of intense agitation, but I didn’t have the same level of stressors to provoke that either.

I will likely be working in a recently popular stress support supplement that contains Sensoril, Bacopa, Theanine, and Rhodiola...now that I have decided to be done with BMP which also contained Rhodiola. I also do have a supplement with a hefty Kanna dose and some 5-HTP that I have been curious to try with Aterall. Ultimately, I am not really sure on how often I plan on using Aterall though. I just haven’t really thought that far ahead about it. My primary short term goal is just to get off of Kratom and take things from there. I was hopeful Aterall would be able to help me out in that process, and it seems as though it will be a valuable tool for me.

It would be somewhat difficult for me to try Kanna or Kava with a dose of Aterall to specifically test out how it affects the agitation- as the stressors that have provoked those mental states occur on a very unpredictable basis. I could purposely try to hang some Christmas lights again that don’t work, but I’m not so sure that would accurately replicate the drama...haha!
I use Kava daily. I am highly experienced and educated when it comes to Kava. The brand I use is called Kalm with Kava and the strain I use is called Loa Waka (micronized). It is extremely powerful (but well balanced). I also use their Pouni Ono strain, which is purely a daytime strain. It reduces anxiety and improves mood like all Kava strains, but it has little to no sedating effect. The Loa Waka can be used during the day as well, but do not use as high of a dose of it or it will knock you on your ass.

Kalm with Kava is the best company I have ever used. They sell only certified Noble kava (stay AWAY from Tudei varities, which many less credible companies use). They are highly selective when it comes to the kava they sell. They don't have their kava harvested until it reaches maximum potency (5 years), which few companies do.

There is as MASSIVE difference between poor quality and great kava, as many factors play a role in not only how powerful it is, but how safe it is. Some crappy kavas have literally zero effect, while high quality strains provide straight-up drug-like effects. Kalm with Kava has an excellent reputation. I HIGLY recommend them...and their shipping is very fast. I get all my packs in 2-3 days I placed an $800 order a few weeks ago and it arrived in 2 days.

By the way, noble kava has ZERO liver toxicity. It is ONLY the Tudie varieties that cause this. Lastly, unlike virtually EVERY other compound which activates GABBA-A receptors (script benzos), Kava produces no tolerance and no physical dependence! It works magnificently for helping people get off opioids (including kratom). It really takes the edge off and helps you relax. Since the micronized versions that Kalm with Kava sells are in powder form, you can easily adjust your dosage to find the dose that perfectly suits you.
 
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muscleupcrohn

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I use Kava daily. I am highly experienced and educated when it comes to Kava. The brand I use is called Kalm with Kava and the strain I use is called Loa Waka (micronized). It is extremely powerful (but well balanced). I also use their Pouni Ono strain, which is purely a daytime strain. It reduces anxiety and improves mood like all Kava strains, but it has little to no sedating effect. The Loa Waka can be used during the day as well, but do not use as high of a dose of it or it will knock you on your ass.

Kalm with Kava is the best company I have ever used. They sell only certified Noble kava (stay AWAY from Tudei varities, which many less credible companies use). They are highly selective when it comes to the kava they sell. They don't have their kava harvested until it reaches maximum potency (5 years), which few companies do.

There is as MASSIVE difference between poor quality and great kava, as many factors play a role in not only how powerful it is, but how safe it is. Some crappy kavas have literally zero effect, while high quality strains provide straight-up drug-like effects. Kalm with Kava has an excellent reputation. I HIGLY recommend them...and their shipping is very fast. I get all my packs in 2-3 days I placed an $800 order a few weeks ago and it arrived in 2 days.

By the way, noble kava has ZERO liver toxicity. It is ONLY the Tudie varieties that cause this. Lastly, unlike virtually EVERY other compound which activates GABBA-A receptors (script benzos), Kava produces no tolerance and no physical dependence! It works magnificently for helping people get off opioids (including kratom). It really takes the edge off and helps you relax. Since the micronized versions that Kalm with Kava sells are in powder form, you can easily adjust your dosage to find the dose that perfectly suits you.
Good post. I did see a lot of papers on kava talk about the importance of proper sourcing. Also, unlike other things that reduce anxiety, moderate doses of kava (don't overdo it, as it can lead to intoxication) not only have no negative impact on cognition, but may actually have cognitive benefits and even improve reaction time!

300mg of kava extract (containing 90mg kavapyrones) given to kava-naive healthy volunteers (aged 18-53, average age 24.3 years):

The intake of a single dose of Kava extract (300 mg; p.o.) led to an increase in state cheerfulness, while the phytopharmacon did not influence state seriousness and bad mood. The mood-elevating effects of Kava were most prominent in trait cheerful subjects, indicating that trait cheerfulness moderated the drug-induced increase in cheerful mood. Furthermore, Kava improved the accuracy and the speed of performing the partial report and the item recognition task, indicative of a beneficial effect of the phytopharmacon on visual attention and short-term memory retrieval, respectively. Thus, unlike conventional benzodiazepine-type anxiolytics, which tend to impair cognitive performance and to increase the occurrence of negative affective states, Kava is a potent anxiolytic agent, which, additionally, can facilitate cognitive functioning and can increase positive affectivity related to exhilaration.

But that's not the only study to note benefits:

This study noted no differences (which means no decrease, but also no increase) in reaction time or number of correct responses with 120mg of a 30% kavapyrone extract (36mg kavapyrones) for 7 days, but it did reduce how stressful subjects found the stress task to be relative to placebo.


In a third study, 200mg of a 70% kavalactone extract taken 3x per day for 5 days (420mg/day kavalactones) lead to a nonsignificant increase in the number of correct responses in a continuous word recognition task.


And one more interesting study:

A dose of kava containing 180mg kavalactones was given to adults aged 18-65 before a driving simulation:

The results indicate that a medicinal dose of kava containing 180 mg of kavalactones does not impair driving ability, whereas 30 mg of oxazepam shows some impairment. Research assessing larger recreational doses of kava on driving ability should now be conducted.


Also referenced in the above study are these studies:

Herberg (1991) conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial that investigated the effects of 300 mg of kava daily (high medical dose) over 15 days on driving ability. Participants were subjected to a battery of tests, including measures of concentration, vigilance, optical orientation, motor coordination, and reaction time under stress. The results showed that kava had no effect on measures of driving performance.
However:

it should be noted that not all studies show kava as benign, with Prescott et al. (1993) showing that a 450-mg dose of kavalactones (kawain and dihydrokawain) significantly increased the extent of body sway in a way similar to alcohol intoxication.
So you don't want to go too high with the dose. Studies showing some sort of benefits used:

an acute dose of 90mg kavapyrones

7 days of 36mg/day kavapyrones

And a study that showed no negative effects with an acute dose of 180mg kavalactones, and another showing no negative effects of 300mg/day kava for 15 days (with no mention of how, if at all, the daily dose was split)

But then we see that a single dose of 450mg kavalactones lead to increased body sway similar to alcohol intoxication, so don't overdo it. The study that used 420mg/day kavalactones and noted slight/nonsignificant cognitive benefits split the dose into 3 servings per day, which likely was why no intoxication was noted; a single serving was only 140mg, which is much less than the 450mg that lead to intoxication-like effects.

Disclaimer: I do not advise driving after taking kava. None of this is medical or legal advice. I'm not a doctor or a lawyer.
 
muscleupcrohn

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Kava may even HELP with addiction:

The active ingredients found in kava, known as kavapyrones, have been found to bind to many sites in the brain that are associated with addiction and craving. In an effort to determine if kava can decrease the craving associated with substances of abuse, a craving survey and pilot study were completed where cravings of alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, and heroin were examined. The preliminary findings suggest that kava may reduce the craving associated with addiction. In one investigation, the participants reported a reduction in their desire for their drug of choice. In another investigation, a standardized amount of kavapyrones led to an apparent difference in abstinence between the experimental and placebo groups for alcohol. The studies presented are considered preliminary and exploratory, and intended only as a precursor to future, more systematic and large-scale investigations. If the findings are confirmed, kava may be a useful component to the treatment of addictions, especially for Native Hawaiian and Pacific peoples.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12180513

Evidence that kava isn't addictive:

In another attack on kava following the rise in popularity of kava bars in the USA, Rodriguez (2016) suggests that: ‘when someone walks into a Kava bar, the last thing they are thinking of is going away to rehab in the next few months.’ He adds that the ‘regular use of Kava can lead to a chemical withdrawal syndrome, with some developing a physical dependence very quickly.’ This however has been denied by long-term heavy kava users who report that periods of kava abstinence, as part of cultural observance, are common, with users reporting or showing no addictive symptoms during these times. Such commentary aligns with a gathering body of research and ethnographic comment, showing that kava use, even at high volumes and regular use, is not generally addictive (Bilia et al., 2001; Connor et al., 2001; Geier and Konstantinowicz, 2004; Keltner and Folkes, 2005; MediHerb, 2004; Scherer, 1998; Thompson et al., 2004). Drawing on earlier research, Aporosa (2014) summarizes by suggesting that ‘if the label “addiction” is to be applied to yaqona [kava], I would hesitantly use “socially addictive” in the sense that it has been habituated to most aspects of Fijian socialization’ (147).

Despite kava being a daily practice in many Pasifika communities (Aporosa, 2019b), assertions that kava is non-addictive is well documented (as shown in the lengthy reference list above). Additionally, Sarris et al. (2013) undertook a double-blind, placebo comparison aimed at kava withdrawal and addiction, reporting ‘no addictive qualities or withdrawal issues’ (1727). Admittedly, the doses administered (120 mg titrated to 240 mg of kavalactones per day per participant over six weeks) are considerably less than those consumed by traditional and recreational kava drinkers (Sarris et al., 2013: 1727) – amounts that can be more than 30 times those used in the Sarris et al.’s study (Aporosa, 2017b).
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2050324519876131
 
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Great...something else to add to my supplement arsenal. The Pouni Ono strain by Kalm with Kava sounds like it would be quite useful. I have only used Kava a few times from one source and it was likely ten years ago or more. I can’t even remember what the source was, but it was definitely sedating and not overly thrilling. It was likely poor quality though...

I will check out the website, and thanks for the recommendation from both of you! It sounds like another perfect Kratom alternative as well as being extremely helpful in weaning off of Kratom..
 
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muscleupcrohn

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Great...something else to add to my supplement arsenal. The Pouni Ono strain by Kalm with Kava sounds like it would be quite useful. I have only used Kava a few times from one source and it was likely ten years ago or more. I can’t even remember what the source was, but it was definitely sedating and not overly thrilling. It was likely poor quality though...

I will check out the website, and thanks for the recommendation from both of you!
No problem. I recently did a lot of research on kava myself, so this is good timing! LI-150 is an extract used in a lot of studies if you opt to go for that route. WS-1490 too. Not that Mike's recommendation isn't solid too, of course. The first study I referenced actually used Solgar brand kava extract, although a quick search for it looks like it's pretty hard to find now.
 

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Great...something else to add to my supplement arsenal. The Pouni Ono strain by Kalm with Kava sounds like it would be quite useful. I have only used Kava a few times from one source and it was likely ten years ago or more. I can’t even remember what the source was, but it was definitely sedating and not overly thrilling. It was likely poor quality though...

I will check out the website, and thanks for the recommendation from both of you! It sounds like another perfect Kratom alternative as well as being extremely helpful in wearing off Kratom..
The best kavas, BY FAR, are whole ground roots. I GREATLY prefer mironized versions because they have all the fibers and course ingestible material removed, whereas with non-micronized versions you need to make a tea out of it and then filter out all the indigestible parts (fibers, etc.). This takes time and is rather inconvenient. Buying micronized versions makes it way easier. You just mix it with water or juice and drink it. That's it.

Micronized versions are also more potent per mg because they don't contain any fibers or other indigestible root parts. So, micronized versions contain a greater amount of active ingredient by weight.

Do not, I repeat DO NOT buy kava extracts. This includes those products claiming to be CO2 extracts. There are currently NO CO2 extracts on the market today that are noble certified...and of those that have been tested, they were found to contain Tudei strains (which are harmful and can make you feel sick). There used to be some good CO2 extracts a few years ago, but at this point there are not.

Also, stay away from all encapsulated Kava products, as they are all extremely weak, if not completely ineffective. This includes virtually all the the kava pills you will find on store shelves claiming to be extracts. NONE of these products contain a high enough dose of kavalactones to produce good effects, regardless what the label says. Trust me on this. Of course, you can always try it yourself...and then compare it to what I've recommended. You will find out very quickly why my recommendation is what it is.

If you want to consume kava...and receive the effects it is SUPPOSED to provide (drug-like), you MUST consume kava in its ground root form (preferably micronized). There is simply NO WAY you can fit enough Kava into caps to provide any meaningful effect. Even with very strong micronized kavas (old plants harvested at peak potency that come from the best strains) require a MINIMUM of one tbsp of actual powder to receive meaningful benefit...and MANY people routinely consume 2-3 tbsp at a time. Some people consume more than that; some much more.

Ask yourself, how can a company fit 2-3 tbsp of powder in a capsule? They can't. They can only fit a fraction of a gram in those caps--usually about 500 mg (that's nothing). Even worse, as stated above, the companies that do make encapsulated products almost always use low potency strains (roots harvested after one year that come from weak strains). Why do they do this? Because even though Kava root takes about 5 years to reach maximum potency, the roots themselves grow to full size in about a year. So, in order to maximize profits, these companies will harvest their kava after just one year...providing a product that is 1/20th the potency. In the end, not only do you end up with a product that is 1/20th the potency by weight, but it only contains a fraction of a gram of actual kava. 2-3 tbsp of a high quality micronized kava root (like Loa Waka) provides literally 50-100X as much actual active ingredient as the caps. This may sound excessive, but it's not. The reality is that kava needs to be consumed in that quanity to provide good results. The capsules don't contain anywhere near enough actual kava, let alone fully matured root, to produce a powerful effect.

There is a a reason that every kava connoisseur consumes whole ground root...NEVER capsules from bottles. Kava is a VERY diverse market with some really great products, but there is even more garbage that doesn't do anything. You really need to know what you're doing when you buy kava, but even more so if you plan on selling high quality kava. Good Kava sellers travel the world, meeting with farmers and only buying the most potent, certified noble strains. These roots are WAY more expensive than the cheap crap so many unethical companies use in their products. You will not find ANY good Kava from the big name supplement companies. NONE. You need to go to specialized kava shops that know what they're doing and take pride in their products. This is why the best kava sellers sell ONLY kava...or a very limited number of products...because selling several strains of high quality kava--consistently--is an ongoing labor intensive process. Even when you do look for specialized kava shops, you need to know which ones are actually honest and not selling you cheap, poisonous tudei crap or low potency strains.

Go with Kalm with Kava. I recommend trying the two strains I mentioned above (Loa Waka and Pouni Ono). You can buy small sample sized bottles of each to see what you like, before spending $50 on an 8 ounce tub. The Pouni Ono is nowhere near as strong as the Loa Waka (the Loa Waka has a much greater total kavalactone content), but, as mentioned earlier, the kavalactone profile (there are 6 different primary kavalactones and the ratios of these kavalactones will determine the type of effect it provides) of the Pouni Ono is less sedating. Still, the Loa Waka, if taken at a lower dosage than the Pouni Ono, provides awesome effects and isn't sedating. Higher doses will make it sedating, though.

Just to give you an idea of what to expect, most people experience very mild effects from 1 tbsp of the Pouni Ono. 2-3 tbsp is much more common. On the other hand, 2-3 tbsp of the Loa Waka is quite strong, especially at the 3 tbsp dose. So, while you might feel moderate effects from the Loa Waka at 1 tbsp, you will feel very minor effects from the Pouni Ono at 1 tbsp. I usually take 2 tbs of Pouni Ono in the morning or early afternoon...and 2 tbsp of the Loa Waka at night. I used to take 3-4 tbsp...but I have toned it down a bit because I was getting quite intoxicated.

***IMPORTANT NOTE***: You MUST take Kava on an empty stomach or it will not work. Kava absorption is SEVERELY impaired by food. So, I recommend waiting at LEAST 3 hours after a meal to take it; preferably 4 hours. It kicks in fast, so you can eat 20 minutes after taking it if you want to. But...having an empty stomach when taking it is CRITICAL if you want to exprience its effects.

Writing this article made me want some kava, so I am going to take some right now...


Note: While the extracts used in some of the clinical studies are good, they are not readily available for purchase and are expensive. Whole micronzed root is still the best way to go. Not only does to contain a full spectrum of kavalactones, but the total kavalactone content is very high (it is as high as you want it to be; it all depends on how much you want to take). High quality Noble certified CO2 extracts can be super potent by weight, but as stated previously, there doesn't appear to be any reliable/trustworthy versions on the market today, so consume at your own risk.
 
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muscleupcrohn

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The best kavas, BY FAR, are whole ground roots. I GREATLY prefer mironized versions because they have all the fibers and course ingestible material removed, whereas with non-micronized versions you need to make a tea out of it and then filter out all the indigestible parts (fibers, etc.). This takes time and is rather inconvenient. Buying micronized versions makes it way easier. You just mix it with water or juice and drink it. That's it.

Micronized versions are also more potent per mg because they don't contain any fibers or other indigestible root parts. So, micronized versions contain a greater amount of active ingredient by weight.

Do not, I repeat DO NOT buy kava extracts. This includes those products claiming to be CO2 extracts. There are currently NO CO2 extracts on the market today that are noble certified...and of those that have been tested, they were found to contain Tudei strains (which are harmful and can make you feel sick). There used to be some good CO2 extracts a few years ago, but at this point there are not.

Also, stay away from all encapsulated Kava products, as they are all extremely weak, if not completely ineffective. This includes virtually all the the kava pills you will find on store shelves claiming to be extracts. NONE of these products contain a high enough dose of kavalactones to produce good effects, regardless what the label says. Trust me on this. Of course, you can always try it yourself...and then compare it to what I've recommended. You will find out very quickly why my recommendation is what it is.

If you want to consume kava...and receive the effects it is SUPPOSED to provide (drug-like), you MUST consume kava in its ground root form (preferably micronized). There is simply NO WAY you can fit enough Kava into caps to provide any meaningful effect. Even with very strong micronized kavas (old plants harvested at peak potency that come from the best strains) require a MINIMUM of one tbsp of actual powder to receive meaningful benefit...and MANY people routinely consume 2-3 tbsp at a time. Some people consume more than that; some much more.

Ask yourself, how can a company fit 2-3 tbsp of powder in a capsule? They can't. They can only fit a fraction of a gram in those caps--usually about 500 mg (that's nothing). Even worse, as stated above, the companies that do make encapsulated products almost always use low potency strains (roots harvested after one year that come from weak strains). Why do they do this? Because even though Kava root takes about 5 years to reach maximum potency, the roots themselves grow to full size in about a year. So, in order to maximize profits, these companies will harvest their kava after just one year...providing a product that is 1/20th the potency. In the end, not only do you end up with a product that is 1/20th the potency by weight, but it only contains a fraction of a gram of actual kava. 2-3 tbsp of a high quality micronized kava root (like Loa Waka) provides literally 50-100X as much actual active ingredient as the caps. This may sound excessive, but it's not. The reality is that kava needs to be consumed in that quanity to provide good results. The capsules don't contain anywhere near enough actual kava, let alone fully matured root, to produce a powerful effect.

There is a a reason that every kava connoisseur consumes whole ground root...NEVER capsules from bottles. Kava is a VERY diverse market with some really great products, but there is even more garbage that doesn't do anything. You really need to know what you're doing when you buy kava, but even more so if you plan on selling high quality kava. Good Kava sellers travel the world, meeting with farmers and only buying the most potent, certified noble strains. These roots are WAY more expensive than the cheap crap so many unethical companies use in their products. You will not find ANY good Kava from the big name supplement companies. NONE. You need to go to specialized kava shops that know what they're doing and take pride in their products. This is why the best kava sellers sell ONLY kava...or a very limited number of products...because selling several strains of high quality kava--consistently--is an ongoing labor intensive process. Even when you do look for specialized kava shops, you need to know which ones are actually honest and not selling you cheap, poisonous tudei crap or low potency strains.

Go with Kalm with Kava. I recommend trying the two strains I mentioned above (Loa Waka and Pouni Ono). You can buy small sample sized bottles of each to see what you like, before spending $50 on an 8 ounce tub. The Pouni Ono is nowhere near as strong as the Loa Waka (the Loa Waka has a much greater total kavalactone content), but, as mentioned earlier, the kavalactone profile (there are 6 different primary kavalactones and the ratios of these kavalactones will determine the type of effect it provides) of the Pouni Ono is less sedating. Still, the Loa Waka, if taken at a lower dosage than the Pouni Ono, provides awesome effects and isn't sedating. Higher doses will make it sedating, though.

Just to give you an idea of what to expect, most people experience very mild effects from 1 tbsp of the Pouni Ono. 2-3 tbsp is much more common. On the other hand, 2-3 tbsp of the Loa Waka is quite strong, especially at the 3 tbsp dose. So, while you might feel moderate effects from the Loa Waka at 1 tbsp, you will feel very minor effects from the Pouni Ono at 1 tbsp. I usually take 2 tbs of Pouni Ono in the morning or early afternoon...and 2 tbsp of the Loa Waka at night. I used to take 3-4 tbsp...but I have toned it down a bit because I was getting quite intoxicated.

***IMPORTANT NOTE***: You MUST take Kava on an empty stomach or it will not work. Kava absorption is SEVERELY impaired by food. So, I recommend waiting at LEAST 3 hours after a meal to take it; preferably 4 hours. It kicks in fast, so you can eat 20 minutes after taking it if you want to. But...having an empty stomach when taking it is CRITICAL if you want to exprience its effects.

Writing this article made me want some kava, so I am going to take some right now...


Note: While the extracts used in some of the clinical studies are good, they are not readily available for purchase and are expensive. Whole micronzed root is still the best way to go. Not only does to contain a full spectrum of kavalactones, but the total kavalactone content is very high (it is as high as you want it to be; it all depends on how much you want to take). High quality Noble certified CO2 extracts can be super potent by weight, but as stated previously, there doesn't appear to be any reliable/trustworthy versions on the market today, so consume at your own risk.
Yeah, I don't see any place to get WS1490 or LI150 at all. Even the Solgar extract seems to be unavailable online, and isn't listed on their site anymore it seems. That's a little disappointing, but I'll have to try Kalm with Kava since you give is such a glowing review!
 
muscleupcrohn

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The best kavas, BY FAR, are whole ground roots. I GREATLY prefer mironized versions because they have all the fibers and course ingestible material removed, whereas with non-micronized versions you need to make a tea out of it and then filter out all the indigestible parts (fibers, etc.). This takes time and is rather inconvenient. Buying micronized versions makes it way easier. You just mix it with water or juice and drink it. That's it.

Micronized versions are also more potent per mg because they don't contain any fibers or other indigestible root parts. So, micronized versions contain a greater amount of active ingredient by weight.

Do not, I repeat DO NOT buy kava extracts. This includes those products claiming to be CO2 extracts. There are currently NO CO2 extracts on the market today that are noble certified...and of those that have been tested, they were found to contain Tudei strains (which are harmful and can make you feel sick). There used to be some good CO2 extracts a few years ago, but at this point there are not.

Also, stay away from all encapsulated Kava products, as they are all extremely weak, if not completely ineffective. This includes virtually all the the kava pills you will find on store shelves claiming to be extracts. NONE of these products contain a high enough dose of kavalactones to produce good effects, regardless what the label says. Trust me on this. Of course, you can always try it yourself...and then compare it to what I've recommended. You will find out very quickly why my recommendation is what it is.

If you want to consume kava...and receive the effects it is SUPPOSED to provide (drug-like), you MUST consume kava in its ground root form (preferably micronized). There is simply NO WAY you can fit enough Kava into caps to provide any meaningful effect. Even with very strong micronized kavas (old plants harvested at peak potency that come from the best strains) require a MINIMUM of one tbsp of actual powder to receive meaningful benefit...and MANY people routinely consume 2-3 tbsp at a time. Some people consume more than that; some much more.

Ask yourself, how can a company fit 2-3 tbsp of powder in a capsule? They can't. They can only fit a fraction of a gram in those caps--usually about 500 mg (that's nothing). Even worse, as stated above, the companies that do make encapsulated products almost always use low potency strains (roots harvested after one year that come from weak strains). Why do they do this? Because even though Kava root takes about 5 years to reach maximum potency, the roots themselves grow to full size in about a year. So, in order to maximize profits, these companies will harvest their kava after just one year...providing a product that is 1/20th the potency. In the end, not only do you end up with a product that is 1/20th the potency by weight, but it only contains a fraction of a gram of actual kava. 2-3 tbsp of a high quality micronized kava root (like Loa Waka) provides literally 50-100X as much actual active ingredient as the caps. This may sound excessive, but it's not. The reality is that kava needs to be consumed in that quanity to provide good results. The capsules don't contain anywhere near enough actual kava, let alone fully matured root, to produce a powerful effect.

There is a a reason that every kava connoisseur consumes whole ground root...NEVER capsules from bottles. Kava is a VERY diverse market with some really great products, but there is even more garbage that doesn't do anything. You really need to know what you're doing when you buy kava, but even more so if you plan on selling high quality kava. Good Kava sellers travel the world, meeting with farmers and only buying the most potent, certified noble strains. These roots are WAY more expensive than the cheap crap so many unethical companies use in their products. You will not find ANY good Kava from the big name supplement companies. NONE. You need to go to specialized kava shops that know what they're doing and take pride in their products. This is why the best kava sellers sell ONLY kava...or a very limited number of products...because selling several strains of high quality kava--consistently--is an ongoing labor intensive process. Even when you do look for specialized kava shops, you need to know which ones are actually honest and not selling you cheap, poisonous tudei crap or low potency strains.

Go with Kalm with Kava. I recommend trying the two strains I mentioned above (Loa Waka and Pouni Ono). You can buy small sample sized bottles of each to see what you like, before spending $50 on an 8 ounce tub. The Pouni Ono is nowhere near as strong as the Loa Waka (the Loa Waka has a much greater total kavalactone content), but, as mentioned earlier, the kavalactone profile (there are 6 different primary kavalactones and the ratios of these kavalactones will determine the type of effect it provides) of the Pouni Ono is less sedating. Still, the Loa Waka, if taken at a lower dosage than the Pouni Ono, provides awesome effects and isn't sedating. Higher doses will make it sedating, though.

Just to give you an idea of what to expect, most people experience very mild effects from 1 tbsp of the Pouni Ono. 2-3 tbsp is much more common. On the other hand, 2-3 tbsp of the Loa Waka is quite strong, especially at the 3 tbsp dose. So, while you might feel moderate effects from the Loa Waka at 1 tbsp, you will feel very minor effects from the Pouni Ono at 1 tbsp. I usually take 2 tbs of Pouni Ono in the morning or early afternoon...and 2 tbsp of the Loa Waka at night. I used to take 3-4 tbsp...but I have toned it down a bit because I was getting quite intoxicated.

***IMPORTANT NOTE***: You MUST take Kava on an empty stomach or it will not work. Kava absorption is SEVERELY impaired by food. So, I recommend waiting at LEAST 3 hours after a meal to take it; preferably 4 hours. It kicks in fast, so you can eat 20 minutes after taking it if you want to. But...having an empty stomach when taking it is CRITICAL if you want to exprience its effects.

Writing this article made me want some kava, so I am going to take some right now...


Note: While the extracts used in some of the clinical studies are good, they are not readily available for purchase and are expensive. Whole micronzed root is still the best way to go. Not only does to contain a full spectrum of kavalactones, but the total kavalactone content is very high (it is as high as you want it to be; it all depends on how much you want to take). High quality Noble certified CO2 extracts can be super potent by weight, but as stated previously, there doesn't appear to be any reliable/trustworthy versions on the market today, so consume at your own risk.
Just out of curiosity, do you have any experience with, or thoughts on, Bula Kava House? They say their Kava is noble (non-Tudei), micronized, and they even test for kavalactones using HPLC, which, while it sounds like this isn't necessary, still seems pretty nice. Pricing seems similar to Kalm with Kava per 1/2 pound, and the dosing recommendation also seems similar to what you recommend (1-2 tbsp).

They seem to list most of their micronized kava powders at 5-13% kavalactones, with 7-8% seeming to be the most common result from their testing. They say 1 tbsp is ~5 grams, which means 1 tbsp would have 250-650mg kavalactones (5-13%), with 375mg kavalactones being 5g at 7.5%.

Some comments I saw on Kalm With Kava's site seem to show some of theirs are around 8% too, which seems to make sense.

This certainly seems like a dose that you'll feel for sure, but it seems like it's getting close (375mg), or even surpasses (up to 650mg), the dose of kavalactones (450mg) that's been shown to lead to some alcohol-like body sway.

Given that lower doses of kavalactones (90mg) have been shown to have some benefits, and more moderate doses (180mg) have been shown not to impair driving ability, could there be an argument for using lower doses of a micronized kava powder if you know the kavalactone content? To hit 180mg kavalactones at 7.5%, you're looking at 2.4g, or 1/2 a tbsp, which is half of their recommended serving. So even if you do end up with the max 13% they say it's specified for, you're at 312mg kavalactones, and one of the other studies showed didn't impair driving or cognition, although they didn't mention if all 300mg was taken as a single serving or split throughout the day, similar to how one study that found no negative effects with 420mg/day split it into 3 servings of 140mg.

TL;DR: any thoughts on Bula Kava House, and any thoughts on starting with, or the efficacy of, 1/2 tsp micronized kava powder to ensure you're not taking too much?

Edit: I think I'll just go with Kalm With Kava though, both due to your great review (and recommendation of strains), as well as the fact that they have smaller sizes available to try.
 
muscleupcrohn

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Sorry to keep hijacking this thread regarding kava, but is there anything it DOESN'T DO?

We have demonstrated that kavain and related kavalactones suppress TNF-α secretion in cells, and provide a striking degree of protection in vivo in a TNF-α driven model of inflammation. Moreover, kavain displays highly favorable pharmaceutical properties including oral bioavailability, although with a relatively short elimination half-life. Taken together, these results indicate that kavalactones potentially represent a promising starting point for the development of a new class of anti-TNF-α agents.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2754715/
 
Ricky10

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The best kavas, BY FAR, are whole ground roots. I GREATLY prefer mironized versions because they have all the fibers and course ingestible material removed, whereas with non-micronized versions you need to make a tea out of it and then filter out all the indigestible parts (fibers, etc.). This takes time and is rather inconvenient. Buying micronized versions makes it way easier. You just mix it with water or juice and drink it. That's it.

Micronized versions are also more potent per mg because they don't contain any fibers or other indigestible root parts. So, micronized versions contain a greater amount of active ingredient by weight.

Do not, I repeat DO NOT buy kava extracts. This includes those products claiming to be CO2 extracts. There are currently NO CO2 extracts on the market today that are noble certified...and of those that have been tested, they were found to contain Tudei strains (which are harmful and can make you feel sick). There used to be some good CO2 extracts a few years ago, but at this point there are not.

Also, stay away from all encapsulated Kava products, as they are all extremely weak, if not completely ineffective. This includes virtually all the the kava pills you will find on store shelves claiming to be extracts. NONE of these products contain a high enough dose of kavalactones to produce good effects, regardless what the label says. Trust me on this. Of course, you can always try it yourself...and then compare it to what I've recommended. You will find out very quickly why my recommendation is what it is.

If you want to consume kava...and receive the effects it is SUPPOSED to provide (drug-like), you MUST consume kava in its ground root form (preferably micronized). There is simply NO WAY you can fit enough Kava into caps to provide any meaningful effect. Even with very strong micronized kavas (old plants harvested at peak potency that come from the best strains) require a MINIMUM of one tbsp of actual powder to receive meaningful benefit...and MANY people routinely consume 2-3 tbsp at a time. Some people consume more than that; some much more.

Ask yourself, how can a company fit 2-3 tbsp of powder in a capsule? They can't. They can only fit a fraction of a gram in those caps--usually about 500 mg (that's nothing). Even worse, as stated above, the companies that do make encapsulated products almost always use low potency strains (roots harvested after one year that come from weak strains). Why do they do this? Because even though Kava root takes about 5 years to reach maximum potency, the roots themselves grow to full size in about a year. So, in order to maximize profits, these companies will harvest their kava after just one year...providing a product that is 1/20th the potency. In the end, not only do you end up with a product that is 1/20th the potency by weight, but it only contains a fraction of a gram of actual kava. 2-3 tbsp of a high quality micronized kava root (like Loa Waka) provides literally 50-100X as much actual active ingredient as the caps. This may sound excessive, but it's not. The reality is that kava needs to be consumed in that quanity to provide good results. The capsules don't contain anywhere near enough actual kava, let alone fully matured root, to produce a powerful effect.

There is a a reason that every kava connoisseur consumes whole ground root...NEVER capsules from bottles. Kava is a VERY diverse market with some really great products, but there is even more garbage that doesn't do anything. You really need to know what you're doing when you buy kava, but even more so if you plan on selling high quality kava. Good Kava sellers travel the world, meeting with farmers and only buying the most potent, certified noble strains. These roots are WAY more expensive than the cheap crap so many unethical companies use in their products. You will not find ANY good Kava from the big name supplement companies. NONE. You need to go to specialized kava shops that know what they're doing and take pride in their products. This is why the best kava sellers sell ONLY kava...or a very limited number of products...because selling several strains of high quality kava--consistently--is an ongoing labor intensive process. Even when you do look for specialized kava shops, you need to know which ones are actually honest and not selling you cheap, poisonous tudei crap or low potency strains.

Go with Kalm with Kava. I recommend trying the two strains I mentioned above (Loa Waka and Pouni Ono). You can buy small sample sized bottles of each to see what you like, before spending $50 on an 8 ounce tub. The Pouni Ono is nowhere near as strong as the Loa Waka (the Loa Waka has a much greater total kavalactone content), but, as mentioned earlier, the kavalactone profile (there are 6 different primary kavalactones and the ratios of these kavalactones will determine the type of effect it provides) of the Pouni Ono is less sedating. Still, the Loa Waka, if taken at a lower dosage than the Pouni Ono, provides awesome effects and isn't sedating. Higher doses will make it sedating, though.

Just to give you an idea of what to expect, most people experience very mild effects from 1 tbsp of the Pouni Ono. 2-3 tbsp is much more common. On the other hand, 2-3 tbsp of the Loa Waka is quite strong, especially at the 3 tbsp dose. So, while you might feel moderate effects from the Loa Waka at 1 tbsp, you will feel very minor effects from the Pouni Ono at 1 tbsp. I usually take 2 tbs of Pouni Ono in the morning or early afternoon...and 2 tbsp of the Loa Waka at night. I used to take 3-4 tbsp...but I have toned it down a bit because I was getting quite intoxicated.

***IMPORTANT NOTE***: You MUST take Kava on an empty stomach or it will not work. Kava absorption is SEVERELY impaired by food. So, I recommend waiting at LEAST 3 hours after a meal to take it; preferably 4 hours. It kicks in fast, so you can eat 20 minutes after taking it if you want to. But...having an empty stomach when taking it is CRITICAL if you want to exprience its effects.

Writing this article made me want some kava, so I am going to take some right now...


Note: While the extracts used in some of the clinical studies are good, they are not readily available for purchase and are expensive. Whole micronzed root is still the best way to go. Not only does to contain a full spectrum of kavalactones, but the total kavalactone content is very high (it is as high as you want it to be; it all depends on how much you want to take). High quality Noble certified CO2 extracts can be super potent by weight, but as stated previously, there doesn't appear to be any reliable/trustworthy versions on the market today, so consume at your own risk.
Well, it’s clear that you and @muscleupcrohn have put in an impressive amount of research...haha. Thanks for taking all that time to even write that!

Just curious what the ultimate feeling obtained is like, or what situation drives one to consume Kava. Alcohol or Benzo substitute? Does it still allow for clear and quick thinking in a work environment? A natural high? A little bit of everything?

Sounds like it could be somewhat strain dependent, but I would be interested to hear input from both of you..

There is a helpful guide on the Kalm with Kava website, but real user experience is always nice :)
 
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ELROCK

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The thing with Kava is it really dries me out! It can make me dehydrated and my skin dry. It’s important to drink plenty of water before, during and after you consume it.
 

patrick25

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This stuff is funny cause nothing in the stomach it hits harder but I want to puke and to much peanut butter it really blunts its effects.
 

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This stuff is funny cause nothing in the stomach it hits harder but I want to puke and to much peanut butter it really blunts its effects.
The thing about taking pills on an empty stomach first thing in the morning--it can cause temporary nausea. It's like this with all pills...and the bigger they are...and the more you take, the worse it can be. I remember when I used to take that orignal NO2 product like 20 years ago (I forgot what it was called) and the directions stated to take either 3 or 6 giant, solid horse pills on an empty stomach every morning. Every morning I felt like I was going to vomit for an hour. I hated it. ATERALL ER isn't nearly as bad because they are caps with powder in them, but some people are more susceptible to this than others.
 

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This stuff is funny cause nothing in the stomach it hits harder but I want to puke and to much peanut butter it really blunts its effects.
I am glad to be getting feedback on the empty stomach VS. fats. You are now the 4th person who said they liked it better without fats. Not consuming fats will impair the absorption of certain compounds, but the absorption of others are impaired by taking it with fats. You can't really win either way, but, at least in the case of several people, it appears that an empty stomach is superior.
 

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