Association of Alpha-GPC With Subsequent Stroke Risk After 10 Years

[Madevilz]

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In this cohort study, use of α-GPC was associated with a higher 10-year incident stroke risk in a dose-response manner after adjusting for traditional cerebrovascular risk factors. Future studies are needed to determine the possible mechanisms behind the potential cerebrovascular risk-elevating effects of α-GPC.

I suck at interpreting studies, so, should I throw away anything containing Alpha GPC or not?

 

[Afi140]

Good question. I think it has been demonstrated to be safe but a 10 year study definitely is something worth taking into consideration. The only thing I will say that makes me take extra caution is that after 3 days or more of 300-600mg I notice like a brain twitch and night when I am in like an awake/dream state. Took me a long time to figure out it was the alpha gpc. Just personal experience but definitely noticeable.

 

[Jeremyk1]

I’d point out two things. First, average age of participants was over 60. Applicability to younger people may be nothing. But also, from the study:

“All participants were divided into whether they were prescribed α-GPC during 2006-2008.”

This is looking at people who were prescribed GPC. So it’s likely they had or were susceptible to or in early stages of dementia or some other cognitive decline. They may already have abnormalities that make GPC worse for them. I’ll wait for more research before I start panicking.

 

[thebigt]

I’d point out two things. First, average age of participants was over 60. Applicability to younger people may be nothing. But also, from the study:

“All participants were divided into whether they were prescribed α-GPC during 2006-2008.”

This is looking at people who were prescribed GPC. So it’s likely they had or were susceptible to or in early stages of dementia or some other cognitive decline. They may already have abnormalities that make GPC worse for them. I’ll wait for more research before I start panicking.

i've been using Alphasize 50% 600mg standardized to 300mg A-GPC for 3 years--with 2 years of EVERYDAY use as a staple ...
i am 63, and started using as a staple after i was diagnosed with vascular dementia and didn't like the side effects from prescribed aricept--i have a cabinet of unused aricept. i feel fantastic, the A-GPC combined with the PS [SerinAid]has improved my brain function as well as making me feel great...i ran a 7k in june of last year...i use endoamp max and love it!!!

according to my personal study they can put that study in the shytcan....

look up l-carnitine and heart disease---but yet i see many members of this forum injecting l-carnitine with good success, lol...better throw that l-carnitine in the trash guys-not!!!

 

[Hyde]

Not to be dismissive (glad you brought attention to this study), but for now it’s just something to consider.

I also know it makes me stronger, and using steroids does as well and definitely increases my stroke risk but I still use them, so it’s still something I will continue to use for now to pursue my goals. But perhaps in light of this there will be more studies, and maybe in 10-15 years when it’s time to chill out some I will have reason to drop the Alpha GPC then as we gain more info.

 

[Harvey Tang]

10 years study itself is not trusting, as there are so many uncontrolled variables and parameters.

Besides, there are people died of drinking too much water. Is it reliable to conclude it is unsafe to drink water?

 

[thebigt]

Not to be dismissive (glad you brought attention to this study), but for now it’s just something to consider.

I also know it makes me stronger, and using steroids does as well and definitely increases my stroke risk but I still use them, so it’s still something I will continue to use for now to pursue my goals. But perhaps in light of this there will be more studies, and maybe in 10-15 years when it’s time to chill out some I will have reason to drop the Alpha GPC then as we gain more info.

lol..in 10-15 years you might be [not sure of your age]close to my age now [63] and i feel great on A-GPC. I plan on running at least 1 7k this year, maybe 2...in 10-15 years i will most likely still be using A-GPC

@Hyde --they say l-carnitine is VERY bad for heart, whatcha think? @Smont

 

[Hyde]

lol..in 10-15 years you might be [not sure of your age]close to my age now [63] and i feel great on A-GPC. I plan on running at least 1 7k this year, maybe 2...in 10-15 years i will most likely still be using A-GPC

@Hyde --they say l-carnitine is VERY bad for heart, whatcha think? @Smont

Exactly, I know I’m going to use it for now and there will be more data then to make more informed decisions.

L-Carnitine being linked to atherosclerosis is due to the excessive TMAO produced in the gut by consuming large amounts orally. It’s not a concern with injectable L-Carnitine.

I believe you can consume VERY large amounts of raw garlic to hit threshold amounts of allicin content required to counteract the TMAO production from requisite amounts needed to see any benefits from oral l-carnitine, but supplementing allicin is rather expensive and I think there are shelf stability issues.

 

[thebigt]

Exactly, I know I’m going to use it for now and there will be more data then to make more informed decisions.

L-Carnitine being linked to atherosclerosis is due to the excessive TMAO produced in the gut by consuming large amounts orally. It’s not a concern with injectable L-Carnitine.

I believe you can consume VERY large amounts of raw garlic to hit threshold amounts of allicin content required to counteract the TMAO production from requisite amounts needed to see any benefits from oral l-carnitine, but supplementing allicin is rather expensive and I think there are shelf stability issues.

from my perspective injecting l-carnitine is something rather new...i have been using oral l-carnitine for at least 10 years....

for perspective to this thread 10 years ago l-carnitine in oral form was touted as a safe and effective way to burn fat and was also said to be GOOD for the heart and cardiovascular system---i aint dead yet and my heart and cardiovascullar system is in great shape-i plan on running at least 1 7k race this year and quite possibly 2 at 63 years of age!!!

going to keep using A-GPC & l-carnitine.

 

[Madevilz]

Not to be dismissive (glad you brought attention to this study), but for now it’s just something to consider.

I also know it makes me stronger, and using steroids does as well and definitely increases my stroke risk but I still use them, so it’s still something I will continue to use for now to pursue my goals. But perhaps in light of this there will be more studies, and maybe in 10-15 years when it’s time to chill out some I will have reason to drop the Alpha GPC then as we gain more info.

Not sure about the comparison with AAS. If Alpha GPC could provide even 5% of what AAS can gainz wise, I would disreguard this study and use it, but it's not the case. I guess for people like thebigt who take it for certain medical conditions, it's worth it, but not sure I could say the same for the gym rats, well that is if this study is accurate.

 

[Hyde]

Not sure about the comparison with AAS. If Alpha GPC could provide even 5% of what AAS can gainz wise, I would disreguard this study and use it, but it's not the case. I guess for people like thebigt who take it for certain medical conditions, it's worth it, but not sure I could say the same for the gym rats, well that is if this study is accurate.

I’m not really arguing for anyone else to use it; I am simply stating that based on my risk assessment it is worth it to me to continue using it based on my assessment of all of the variables presented to me.

I do not think most gym rats could possibly relate to the lengths I have gone to for an extra edge at times.

 

[Madevilz]

I’m not really arguing for anyone else to use it; I am simply stating that based on my risk assessment it is worth it to me to continue using it based on my assessment of all of the variables presented to me.

I do not think most gym rats could possibly relate to the lengths I have gone to for an extra edge at times.

As a previous AAS user, I know what you mean.
I hope there is some kind of follow-up to this study, I like Alpha-GPC in my preworkouts a lot.

 

[Irishobrien]

I’ve examined this study in depth and evaluated their statistical methods (CI), as Ive enjoy(Ed) alpha-gpc and have been a proponent for years. Suffice to say that I will not be using this supplement (long term) any longer, especially as I get older. Fortunately CDP-choline should not have these metabolic byproducts and will be an acceptable alternative. Short term, and infrequent, administration should not be an issue.

 

[Jeremyk1]

I’ve examined this study in depth and evaluated their statistical methods (CI), as Ive enjoy(Ed) alpha-gpc and have been a proponent for years. Suffice to say that I will not be using this supplement (long term) any longer, especially as I get older. Fortunately CDP-choline should not have these metabolic byproducts and will be an acceptable alternative. Short term, and infrequent, administration should not be an issue.

Seriously? Damn. So if I stop getting older, I’ll be fine?

Is there anything you’re aware of that could mitigate risks here?

 

[thebigt]

I’ve examined this study in depth and evaluated their statistical methods (CI), as Ive enjoy(Ed) alpha-gpc and have been a proponent for years. Suffice to say that I will not be using this supplement (long term) any longer, especially as I get older. Fortunately CDP-choline should not have these metabolic byproducts and will be an acceptable alternative. Short term, and infrequent, administration should not be an issue.

you are of course free to use whatever supplementation you desire, as am i.

i'm 63 and have vascular dementia which puts me at a higher risk for stroke, i plan to continue to use A-GPC just as i have been daily for last 3 years...i cut out using high stim products which along with amphetamine abuse for many years when i was younger probably caused my vascular dementia....high blood pressure and using strong stimulants and amphetamines is going to put people at a much higher risk of cardiovascular issues than A-GPC, imo.

for me the amazing benefits i get from A-GPC far outweigh the for me minor risk....i have a cabinet full of aricept which i stopped using because endoamp max did just as well if not better at controlling my vascular dementia and without the negative sides, only good sides!!!

good luck and GOD BLESS

 

[Hilltern]

Exactly, I know I’m going to use it for now and there will be more data then to make more informed decisions.

L-Carnitine being linked to atherosclerosis is due to the excessive TMAO produced in the gut by consuming large amounts orally. It’s not a concern with injectable L-Carnitine.

I believe you can consume VERY large amounts of raw garlic to hit threshold amounts of allicin content required to counteract the TMAO production from requisite amounts needed to see any benefits from oral l-carnitine, but supplementing allicin is rather expensive and I think there are shelf stability issues.

It's my understanding the the oral L-Carnitine - TMAO connection is just a hypothesis/conjecture at this point. Have you seen any hard data backing that up? On point, apparently there are concerns with a-GPC and TMAO production but that may be unfounded as well; I just saw a video from Derek at MPMD where he tested his TMAO levels after dosing a-GPC at 1200mg and his levels were fine. Just one example so can't really draw a conclusion as to the a-GPC - TMAO connection but interesting nonetheless.

 

[thebigt]

It's my understanding the the oral L-Carnitine - TMAO connection is just a hypothesis/conjecture at this point. Have you seen any hard data backing that up? On point, apparently there are concerns with a-GPC and TMAO production but that may be unfounded as well; I just saw a video from Derek at MPMD where he tested his TMAO levels after dosing a-GPC at 1200mg and his levels were fine. Just one example so can't really draw a conclusion as to the a-GPC - TMAO connection but interesting nonetheless.

i use oral l-carnitine, PS and ALPHA GPC, and my cholesterol levels are very good.

i also eat red meat regularly since i am a hunter, also eat fresh whole eggs and milk--since i live in a farming area....

i am 63 with vascular dementia-look it up, having it puts me at a high risk for stroke....i also regularly run 12 miles or better EVERY week, and keep my weight/BF% down....my bloods always come back very good, my doctor tells me i must be doing something right!!!

oh yeah, i got covid in march of last year, was over it in 3 days and went back to training for the 7k race i ran in june...i plan on running at least 1 7k this year and maybe 2.

if i wanted to live my life according to studies i would just curl up under a motherfucking rock and die...just like the fuckers telling me that since i have vascular dementia and am 63 that i was at high risk of dying if i caught covid-well they can go fvck themselves.

btw-i aint vaxxed either and have no plans to be!!!

 

[Hilltern]

i use oral l-carnitine, PS and ALPHA GPC, and my cholesterol levels are very good.

i also eat red meat regularly since i am a hunter, also eat fresh whole eggs and milk--since i live in a farming area....

i am 63 with vascular dementia-look it up, having it puts me at a high risk for stroke....i also regularly run 12 miles or better EVERY week, and keep my weight/BF% down....my bloods always come back very good, my doctor tells me i must be doing something right!!!

oh yeah, i got covid in march of last year, was over it in 3 days and went back to training for the 7k race i ran in june...i plan on running at least 1 7k this year and maybe 2.

if i wanted to live my life according to studies i would just curl up under a motherfucking rock and die...just like the fuckers telling me that since i have vascular dementia and am 63 that i was at high risk of dying if i caught covid-well they can go fvck themselves.

btw-i aint vaxxed either and have no plans to be!!!

Right on. There's definitely something to say for the old school, more natural and healthy diet. My grandpa passed about a decade ago from strokes around your age (was 70 at the time if I recall correctly) and part of what I teased out was his diet was largely to blame - though his cardio was great. Unfortunately, I think I was the only one in the family to put 2 and 2 together (despite my incessant warnings and reminders), but that was a clear shot across the metaphorical bow for me. Of course, diet and cardio aren't everything...everyone is just their own n=1 but certainly helps to control the factors you can (while still enjoying life) IMO.

What kind of game are you bagging and cooking?

 

[Irishobrien]

10 years study itself is not trusting, as there are so many uncontrolled variables and parameters.

Besides, there are people died of drinking too much water. Is it reliable to conclude it is unsafe to drink water?

From a statistical standpoint, the 10 year interval should make statistical significance LESS likely, not more. In other words, the opposite of your intuition.

 

[Irishobrien]

I approached this article with the goal of disproving it from a methodological standpoint and failed. The only possible consideration is that the population studied was Asian which do have different stroke incidences then whites- more similar to blacks and Hispanics.


“South Asians were younger and had higher rates of diabetes mellitus, blood pressure, and fasting blood glucose levels than other race/ethnicities. Prevalence of diabetic and antiplatelet medication use, as well as the incidence of small-artery occlusion ischemic stroke was also higher among South Asians. South Asians were almost a decade younger and had comparable socioeconomic levels as whites; however, their stroke risk factors were comparable to that of African Americans and Hispanics.”



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Alternatively the data is pretty negative and the confidence intervals were narrow.

“After matching for all covariates, α-GPC users had a higher risk for total stroke (aHR, 1.43; 95% CI, 1.41-1.46), ischemic stroke (aHR, 1.34; 95% CI, 1.31-1.37), and hemorrhagic stroke (aHR, 1.37; 95% CI, 1.29-1.46). Increasing intake of α-GPC was associated with a higher risk for total stroke in a dose-response manner.”

 

[Hyde]

It's my understanding the the oral L-Carnitine - TMAO connection is just a hypothesis/conjecture at this point. Have you seen any hard data backing that up? On point, apparently there are concerns with a-GPC and TMAO production but that may be unfounded as well; I just saw a video from Derek at MPMD where he tested his TMAO levels after dosing a-GPC at 1200mg and his levels were fine. Just one example so can't really draw a conclusion as to the a-GPC - TMAO connection but interesting nonetheless.

Yeah saw that as well. I don’t follow Derek because his channel is all fluff these days, but always love the Bio Bros discussions as they have substance mixed in.

And I agree, nothing concrete. I have seen direct proof in Alex Kikel’s Carnitine E-Book however that oral supplementation is worthless unless it’s 2+ total grams daily and also at least 2, ideally 3 servings per day. Dosing all at once made zero statistical difference in levels, and in general oral usage is fairly ineffective on all fronts.

I mean on a practical level, I inject the stuff and it’s still not life-changing. Just a small, but relevant, helper for those looking to get whatever edge they can that doesn’t have a negative health impact.

 

[Jeremyk1]

It's my understanding the the oral L-Carnitine - TMAO connection is just a hypothesis/conjecture at this point. Have you seen any hard data backing that up? On point, apparently there are concerns with a-GPC and TMAO production but that may be unfounded as well; I just saw a video from Derek at MPMD where he tested his TMAO levels after dosing a-GPC at 1200mg and his levels were fine. Just one example so can't really draw a conclusion as to the a-GPC - TMAO connection but interesting nonetheless.

Last I remember reading on it, what I saw said that the one human study actually showed that the single vegetarian in the study didn’t have the same increase in TMAO as the others. Which could mean that people with a healthier diet/lifestyle might not be subject to the same issues.

I haven’t seen if there’s anything new updating this, but when I read about it years ago, I saw that the connection between TMAO and heart disease wasn’t actually established in humans, only based on rodent studies.

This is something I should probably look into again now that I’ve seen more info, but I dismissed it years ago and haven’t thought about it since.

 

[thebigt]

Right on. There's definitely something to say for the old school, more natural and healthy diet. My grandpa passed about a decade ago from strokes around your age (was 70 at the time if I recall correctly) and part of what I teased out was his diet was largely to blame - though his cardio was great. Unfortunately, I think I was the only one in the family to put 2 and 2 together (despite my incessant warnings and reminders), but that was a clear shot across the metaphorical bow for me. Of course, diet and cardio aren't everything...everyone is just their own n=1 but certainly helps to control the factors you can (while still enjoying life) IMO.

What kind of game are you bagging and cooking?

deer, duck, and turkey--i've got 2 freezers full. plus another freezer full of fish i caught from the lake that borders our house on one side and river on other side of property. we also have a large vegetable garden and there are apple, peach and plum trees on our property, unfortunately citrus trees don't do well here.

we thought about getting some cows and a few pigs, but decided to just buy cow and pig from neighboring farmers and share cost of processing with our kids and their families.

green acres is the life for me