Ask a Biochemist anything!

[Punisher88]

I'm loving this thread! Okay my question. Can you give us your opinion on the "protein brownies", where people are using whey powder, egg white and water or almond milk mixed together and cooked in the microwave for 50 seconds. Not bad tasting either, but the issue is whether or not the protein is denatured enough to not be useful for muscle growth. Every thread I have ever read has come up 50-50 as far as effectiveness. Do you feel that heating whey or micellar casein protein powder in a microwave makes the powder useless as far as muscle protein absoprtion? Thank-you in advance for your input as well as all the other knowledge you have all ready provided on this thread.

 

[TheProfessor]

This is a good question that I love to answer. I won't make an example of you though because you legitimately want to know. I'm going to answer this in a long drawn out way to make sure you get something out of it. Because in a forum like this, a simple yes or no doesn't really mean ****. So hopefully you (and others) will get something out of this.

First off, Let's describe what protein denaturation is...

In biochemical terms, it literally means that the polypeptide loses its tertiary (3-dimensional) structure and secondary (think of it has HALF 3-dimensional) structure.

Secondly, lets describe what causes polypeptide/protein denaturation.
1. Heat
2. PH (changes in the various hydrogen Ion species)
3. Radiation
4. Torsional stress (e.g. violent shaking)
5. Harsh solvents (typically throwing off hydrophobic stabilization)
6. High salt content (large concentration of ions throwing off electrostatic stabilization)

This list goes on...

I like to give this analogy. Given the list you have ^^^^ up there think about these things...

cooking chicken on a BBQ (super high heat)
your stomach acid having high salt concentration and a low PH (high hydrogen ion content)

blah blah blah

Lastly: even if the protein you consume through your whey is "native" it will be digested and denatured in your stomach/intestine anyway.
Some people argue that 'native' whey peptides enter the bloodstream faster. This is true, but the overall muscular assimilation is a wash. Because proteins cannot be incorporated into metabolic processes (in our case, anabolic) unless they are broken down into their constitutive amino acids. So, even if it enters your bloodstream faster it STILL needs to be degraded after it enters the bloodstream. So it's a matter of digesting it now or later... in the long run I don't think it will make a difference in the overall musculature (people have been giant since before protein powder existed)

So, in short. Nuke and cook whatever the F#*K you want. You superheat your chicken to 600F on the grill. If that doesn't denature the living **** out of something nothing will. People would have stopped eating cooked meat a long time ago if it didn't correlate with muscle gain... Some nitpickers say that grilling at super high heat can actually react the polypeptide into nitrosamines, which it can. but screw them. It doesn't mess with the nutritive value enough in my opinion.

Unless somebody has a huge argument against this... I think these few paragraphs should be stickied in the nutrition section... because it's something everyone needs to know...

 

[Punisher88]

Wow, thank you for your answer and extra thanks for your detailed explanation. Your knowledge and input is much appreciated, especiallly since I know that I'm not the only one who makes these brownies every now and then lol

 

[Torobestia]

A peer of mine who helped me create the Cabergolean has spent the last few years as the lead on a novel GHRH that was created as a treatment for people with AIDS whose bodies were wasting away.

What he found in some research (on cancer patients) was that when patients were given IGFBPs to negate the effects of circulating IGF that this treatment did not stop the spread of cancer (can't say which cancer); moreover, he found that although The reduction in circulating IGF slowed cancer cell proliferation, it also slowed the proliferation of lymphocytes, especially NKC. So a reduction in IGF was not the panacea.

Also, it was shown that this GHRH had the ability , unlike HGH and IGF to improve the efficacy of the thymus gland. The thymus glands performance is decimated by conventional cancer treatments, and full blown aids.

So I am absolutely not recommending you take any medications approved or unapproved, I suppose if I were you and cancer was a concern, I would see an anti aging clinician about GHRH or a supplement that increases GHRH.

In many cell types IGF signaling activates pro-survival/anti-apoptotic pathways, and it is less responsible for proliferation (especially so in mature cells, or so my understanding is).

Even so, having or attaining high IGF serum levels is likely suboptimal for both cancer patients (can activate compensatory/redundant pathways in the cells that lead to resistance to various types of chemotherapies, thus, indirectly, growth) and for subjects with a lifestyle that's predisposed them to a higher risk of getting cancer (natural mechanisms that would normally kill oncogenic or pre-oncogenic cells would be less effective).

 

[Torobestia]

This is a good question that I love to answer. I won't make an example of you though because you legitimately want to know. I'm going to answer this in a long drawn out way to make sure you get something out of it. Because in a forum like this, a simple yes or no doesn't really mean ****. So hopefully you (and others) will get something out of this.

First off, Let's describe what protein denaturation is...

In biochemical terms, it literally means that the polypeptide loses its tertiary (3-dimensional) structure and secondary (think of it has HALF 3-dimensional) structure.

Secondly, lets describe what causes polypeptide/protein denaturation.
1. Heat
2. PH (changes in the various hydrogen Ion species)
3. Radiation
4. Torsional stress (e.g. violent shaking)
5. Harsh solvents (typically throwing off hydrophobic stabilization)
6. High salt content (large concentration of ions throwing off electrostatic stabilization)

This list goes on...

I like to give this analogy. Given the list you have ^^^^ up there think about these things...

cooking chicken on a BBQ (super high heat)
your stomach acid having high salt concentration and a low PH (high hydrogen ion content)

blah blah blah

Lastly: even if the protein you consume through your whey is "native" it will be digested and denatured in your stomach/intestine anyway.
Some people argue that 'native' whey peptides enter the bloodstream faster. This is true, but the overall muscular assimilation is a wash. Because proteins cannot be incorporated into metabolic processes (in our case, anabolic) unless they are broken down into their constitutive amino acids. So, even if it enters your bloodstream faster it STILL needs to be degraded after it enters the bloodstream. So it's a matter of digesting it now or later... in the long run I don't think it will make a difference in the overall musculature (people have been giant since before protein powder existed)

So, in short. Nuke and cook whatever the F#*K you want. You superheat your chicken to 600F on the grill. If that doesn't denature the living **** out of something nothing will. People would have stopped eating cooked meat a long time ago if it didn't correlate with muscle gain... Some nitpickers say that grilling at super high heat can actually react the polypeptide into nitrosamines, which is can. but screw them. It doesn't mess with the nutritive value enough in my opinion.

Unless somebody has a huge argument against this... I think these few paragraphs should be stickied in the nutrition section... because it's something everyone needs to know...

Well said.