Article: The Current State of S&C Coaching

I just played division 1 fcs football last year and we lifted heavy squats bench dead-lift and Olympic lifts. there was zero machines in the very nice weight room except lat pull downs GHR's and westside barbell reverse hypers. My strength coach said the elite levels would never lift to the point that we did because they are already so gifted that preventing injury become the primary concern. killing someone to raise their bench 40 pounds when they already bench 400 isn't very smart if you risk them not being able to play. it doesnt take two weeks to be conditioned either. increasing work capacity is important so that a player can sustain 3 hour practices for months along with long games. this article is misinformed
 
creahan said:
I just played division 1 fcs football last year and we lifted heavy squats bench dead-lift and Olympic lifts. there was zero machines in the very nice weight room except lat pull downs GHR's and westside barbell reverse hypers. My strength coach said the elite levels would never lift to the point that we did because they are already so gifted that preventing injury become the primary concern. killing someone to raise their bench 40 pounds when they already bench 400 isn't very smart if you risk them not being able to play. it doesnt take two weeks to be conditioned either. increasing work capacity is important so that a player can sustain 3 hour practices for months along with long games. this article is misinformed
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You're missing the big picture of the article. He also addressed the issues you mentioned, but that's okay.

And, yes if you stayed in shape in the off-season (many athletes do not, sadly) you can be "conditioned" in 2 weeks. "Conditioned" to 100%? No, he never said that. But conditioned to the point where you're able to perform in games without your aerobic/anaerobic capacity being the limiting factor.

Now, I didn't go to your school, so maybe you did have a great coach/program, but extending your anecdotal experience nationwide is fallacious.

I love Rippetoe, but I'll be the first to admit he's not 100% on everything. He'd admit that too. Speaking in absolutes is crazy. But his take home message rings true in this article. Bottom line.

I will not post any further replies. Going back and forth over the internet is a waste of time.
 
liftandswim said:
You're missing the big picture of the article. He also addressed the issues you mentioned, but that's okay.

And, yes if you stayed in shape in the off-season (many athletes do not, sadly) you can be "conditioned" in 2 weeks. "Conditioned" to 100%? No, he never said that. But conditioned to the point where you're able to perform in games without your aerobic/anaerobic capacity being the limiting factor.

Now, I didn't go to your school, so maybe you did have a great coach/program, but extending your anecdotal experience nationwide is fallacious.

I love Rippetoe, but I'll be the first to admit he's not 100% on everything. He'd admit that too. Speaking in absolutes is crazy. But his take home message rings true in this article. Bottom line.

I will not post any further replies. Going back and forth over the internet is a waste of time.
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Mark, as much as I respect him, extending his personal experiences (which he may have witnessed) to cover, what, 400 schools between D1, D2, D3, is being 100% fallacious to say the LEAST. At worst, it is a gross exaggeration and I would go so far as to say irresponsible on his part. This, especially coming from someone with such knowledge of strengthening the body.

Many athletes do not stay in shape in the off season? What off-season?

If you played D1 college football, basketball, baseball, volleyball, tennis, swimming, track and field, etc, you would know FULL WELL, there really isn't an OFF SEASON. You are almost constantly engaged in some form of exercise/conditioning program even during the off season...I played D2 baseball and basketball and we were never really "off". Let me put it this way, there was never a period of more than 30 days where we were not involved in organized sports or conditioning or camps of some sort. A lower tier, not STARTER but tier 3, running back will get into shape in less than 3 weeks after the football season ends.

A sprinter never really has a "time off period" so they stay near their capacity. Swimmers never really have an OFF PERIOD and they stay near capacity. Many basketball players play summer league, city league, nations, during the off period so they are never really "off". The last time i checked any references, there were more D1, D2, D3, basketball players playing in some type of summer league somewhere in this day than in the past 10 years. Mostly due to the availability of more leagues now a days.

Now, perhaps, if you played 10 years ago then you have a great point. But, since then?

What school did you play at where you were allowed to be completely absent from conditioning, summer league, strength camps, etc, for 3-5 months at a time?
 
hardknock said:
Mark, as much as I respect him, extending his personal experiences (which he may have witnessed) to cover, what, 400 schools between D1, D2, D3, is being 100% fallacious to say the LEAST. At worst, it is a gross exaggeration and I would go so far as to say irresponsible on his part. This, especially coming from someone with such knowledge of strengthening the body. Many athletes do not stay in shape in the off season? What off-season? If you played D1 college football, basketball, baseball, volleyball, tennis, swimming, track and field, etc, you would know FULL WELL, there really isn't an OFF SEASON. You are almost constantly engaged in some form of exercise/conditioning program even during the off season...I played D2 baseball and basketball and we were never really "off". Let me put it this way, there was never a period of more than 30 days where we were not involved in organized sports or conditioning or camps of some sort. A lower tier, not STARTER but tier 3, running back will get into shape in less than 3 weeks after the football season ends. A sprinter never really has a "time off period" so they stay near their capacity. Swimmers never really have an OFF PERIOD and they stay near capacity. Many basketball players play summer league, city league, nations, during the off period so they are never really "off". The last time i checked any references, there were more D1, D2, D3, basketball players playing in some type of summer league somewhere in this day than in the past 10 years. Mostly due to the availability of more leagues now a days. Now, perhaps, if you played 10 years ago then you have a great point. But, since then? What school did you play at where you were allowed to be completely absent from conditioning, summer league, strength camps, etc, for 3-5 months at a time?
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Didn't read much of your post because, like I said back and forth over the internet is a waste of time, but I graduated LAST year. I was a swimmer. So yes, I do know there's no OFF-season. Trust me, I swam pretty much non-stop for 16 years of my life. No joke. From the age of 8, I had no more than 2 weeks in total away from the pool each year.

Sorry for the almost menacing tone, just something I really care about.
 
I can't jump very high but I have stand out(not elite) punching power, what does that mean? The jump isn't the only thing that matters when it comes to power.
 
Whats with this guy saying all machines are useless and then he keeps bringing up leg extensions? What about pull down stations low row stations some hammer strength exercises. wtf yeah bar bells and dumbbells are great but some machines are also great and can absolutely make you stronger. You telling me if you started doing low rows with 50 pounds and worked your way up to 300 pounds for reps you didn't get stronger? Most people use all three anyway. This guy comes off a just another know it all who thinks he's better then everyone else.
 
Of course punching power starts with your lower body so you will be average not elite like you stated.
 
mase1 said:
Of course punching power starts with your lower body so you will be average not elite like you stated.
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lol def not average
 
liftandswim said:
Didn't read much of your post because, like I said back and forth over the internet is a waste of time, but I graduated LAST year. I was a swimmer. So yes, I do know there's no OFF-season. Trust me, I swam pretty much non-stop for 16 years of my life. No joke. From the age of 8, I had no more than 2 weeks in total away from the pool each year.

Sorry for the almost menacing tone, just something I really care about.
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It's the internet...I don't read tones from people unless they directly put me down...it's a discussing board, no problem.
 
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