Article: Is When You Eat As Important As What?
- Thread starter The Press
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asooneyeonig
Well-known member
cause its from Flex mega'adverti'zine
Gutterpump
Banned
yeah this article (advertisement) is useless
Gutterpump
Banned
Thompson2003
New member
So there's no mention of actually eating certain things at a certain time of day, just a poorly executed advertisement for crEmtor? This article is worse than worthless, thank u for wasting my time.
Helander
New member
Constantly sipping BCAA:s seems to only be effective only when the quality/quantity of daily protein is severly restricted. For example a child in a third world country with half of his 12 brothers dead due to starvation would benefit from sipping BCAA:s constantly, but if your protein intake is on the level of a bodybuilder, there's no real use for this.
Even fasting for 36 hours straight does not cause your body to break down muscle tissue, unless you're very lean (under ~10% bodyfat, and even then you'll get it all back with normalized calorie amounts in a couple of weeks)
Lyle McD. says in his Protein Book that it might be of minor benefit to augment your slowly releasing meal with a fast-digesting protein like whey or BCAA hours after youhave eaten to spike mTor again, but the benefit is a very minor indeed if it exists at all.
The bottom line from what I've read is to spike mTor, then let it settle (which it will do anyways) and then spike it again. Think of a "push-pull" method when picking up women. Brad Pilon mentioned in his EsE audio files that the longer the mTor has been unactivated, the more aggressive the response is when it is once again spiked up.
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krk1
New member
I thought the article was generally good with some decent citations to back the inductive reasoning. The promo aspect which hit me hard about the third paragraph up from the bottom has the appearance of being the original statement to peddle, and so the rest was stacked on top of it 
Gutterpump
Banned
I do it because it makes my water taste good lol.. I love Xtend (BCAAs) / RPG (BCAA/EAA blend). And it definitely helps me drink far more water throughout the day.
Helander
New member
I also sometimes do it just to get more water down when at work. Surely, if it makes people drink more water, it is worth something.
Gutterpump
Banned
I've been trying to squeeze limes into my water and just do that instead for a bit of flavor, definitely healthier that taking in so much aspartame from sugar free kool-aid, but I love Xtend and RPG so much, it's a bit of an addiction tbh. Using RPG all day is definitely expensive because of the EAA's. Such a good blend though with the freeze-dried berry extracts/powder they put in there.
Vengeance187
Member
This is incorrect. The body is always breaking down muscle in an anabolic:catabolic ratio. If anabolism is higher than catabolism, you build muscle. If catabolism is higher than anabolism, you lose muscle. It's as simple as that. I used to lose muscle when taking a week off from working out from not eating enough. I certainly didn't "fast"(besides the 8 hour fast called sleeping), so how did I lose the muscle if your claim is true? Now I stay in a calorie surplus when taking a break from working out just to maintain what muscle I've gained. You can't "stop" catabolism. You can lower it(sipping bcaa's may do this), or increase anabolism to make the ratio more favorable to building muscle. If you could stop muscle breakdown, damaged tissue would never get removed...
Helander
New member
You are correct in terms that metabolism is not an on/off switch - There are anabolic and catabolic processes going an all the time in our body. Muscle growth is not possible without simultaneous muscle breakdown.
However, the reason you lost muscle is that you stopped exercising. Strength training is the single biggest factor which prevents muscle loss. Short term fasting + regular exercise = no muscle loss. Short term fasting + no workout = muscle loss. Actually, sipping BCAA:s every two hours 24/7 + no exercise = muscle loss.
You probably did not lose much muscle mass anyways, and probably most of it was just glycogen depletion. Also it needs to be noted that the more advanced the athlete, the more he will downgrade when taking a week off. A total n00b would not lose anything since he has nothing to lose. Some extremely high level athletes find their athletic ability drop with only two consecutive days off!
Also, from a practical viewpoint muscle loss is something most people should not even think about. If you took a crash diet for two weeks without exercising at all, which would result in pretty "massive" muscle loss, you would gain it all back in terms of weeks due to muscle memory. (Edit: Obviously no-one does this kind of ****)The process is similar in nature as it is with weight loss: The average person will gain his lost fat back pretty quickly, because the fat cells get left in place while the fat content is removed. It is easy to fill an already built warehouse with stuff you know.
Muscle cells also do not get destroyed when one experiences muscle loss (only in cases of near death starvation does body completely rid muscle cells). The muscle cells simply shrink and become inactive, and their potential can be easily restored with exercise and proper nutrition.
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Gutterpump
Banned
Hrm I tend to come back stronger when I take a week off to deload. I log all my workouts and I've noticed that in my numbers. I'm not sure if athletes would downgrade so easily. Maybe cardiovascular wise, I could see that. Just speaking from practical experience.
Helander
New member
That is most surely correct. I also highly doubt most people would actually experience real muscle loss with one week off training, but if someone insists that they did, the only practical reason is that their bodies respond quickly to "non-stimulus" and downgrade their peak levels. With skill-based training the drop tends to be more aggressive. I do gymnastics as my main sport, and things such as handstand endurance drop pretty quick without constant, daily "reminders" for the body to keep the skill up.
These things tend to be highly individual. On olympic level there are athletes who thrive on up to three workout sessions per day. There are some olympic athletes who get destroyed by two workout sessions per day. Still both compete at the same level.
Gutterpump
Banned
Ahh yes, I was also going to mention that skill based training like gymnastics and olympic lifting would see a faster downgrade, since a lot of the work is CNS related. A skill based athlete could come back a bit 'rusty' from a break.
Vengeance187
Member
That used to happen to me for the first few years of working out. Now I'm either the same strength or less after a break. I don't do deloads, I just take a week off, and sometimes more if on vacation. I don't know many other 165lbs guys that can bench 330lbs; that is, after I can get it back up there after a break. What sucks the most is losing a couple of years of progress in a couple of months from getting sick.
There are several different types of muscle cells. The cells are not part of the contractile tissue. Muscle tissue is absolutely broken down. Just making sure you realize your statement about muscle tissue not being broken down is incorrect.
I personally have lost a lot of muscle, and it took me just as long to gain it back as it did the first time around. I've always been a hardgainer though, so it may be a special case.
It depends on the rate of amino acid appearance and clearing. In Lyle McDonal's study BCAA's 2 hours after a meal spiked MPS since it's high rate of appearance raised amino acid levels higher than the previous meal, but cleared the system fast enough that the next meal 2 hours later still increased MPS. The four hour blanket statement only applies to whole foods(I'm pretty sure it was four, not five, but I can't find the study now).
Gutterpump
Banned
I hear ya. I do believe in muscle memory though and I do believe that strength can also be regained fast after a long break if you train right. For example, I had stopped deadlifting for a very very long time...so my numbers were pretty horrible. After not having deadlifted for over a year, I was able to get my 1RM to 450 within 2 months of following a simple but effective powerlifting routine and really pushing it every week. I never would've thought my #'s would jump so fast in such a short time.
Helander
New member
I admit, my reasoning was a bit unfocused. I also read this from Lyle's Protein Book, though can't remember if the first served meal had spiked mTor enough in the first place. But yes, as I said in one of my previous comments, I believe this happens, but timing varies on studies. Pilon quoted a study in his EsE audio files (great collection of IF studies and general lines) that really keeping mTor up all the time can be counterproductive, just as constantly staying on one edge will eventually dampen the response.
But who knows, would be interesting to have some studies (properly done ones) with athletes on a really high level to see if a person like you who considers himself a bit of a hardgainer AND is on a very high level actually benefits from more frequent feedings.
Vengeance187
Member
I've read a little bit about anabolic resistance. It's supposedly similar to insulin resistance. There's not much out there on the subject. I don't even know of a study on it, only anecdotal articles. Do you have a link to the quoted study?
Gutterpump
Banned
L-carnitine L-tartrate is a great supplement to up regulate the AR
Vengeance187
Member
I don't think androgen receptor dormancy is the same thing as general anabolic resistance. AR dormancy is usually from exogenous hormone use. Anabolic resistance supposedly happens from getting too much protein and being in a calorie surplus for too long. I don't know if I buy it, or to what degree it happens; there's not much info. Permabulks work for some people...
Gutterpump
Banned
Ahh ok I see. That seems to make sense. Being in a calorie surplus for too long definitely has a negative effect on insulin resistance. The body does respond better (for gains in strength and size) when primed with a calorie deficit, but cutting typically effects insulin resistance only as far as I know. I'm interested in reading up more now on how it could effect the AR / anabolic resistance.
Vengeance187
Member
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