Article: Is Red Meat The Ultimate Muscle Builder?
- Thread starter The Press
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mountainman33
Well-known member
Plus, I bet the meat group had a normal healthy skin color, not that sickly, pasty white I see on most vegas/vegetarians. Yuck.
wiseman
Member
I'd like to see what you look like
mountainman33
Well-known member
Not a pasty vegan, that's for sure.
wiseman
Member
Obviously you've never heard of Bill Pearl. Shows how much you know. Keep knocking people who make a different food choice than you while hidin behind a picture of Popeye. You seem like a badass.
mountainman33
Well-known member
I HAVE heard of Bill Pearl. He was lacto/ovo however, so he was still consuming animal protein. But he is also a true exception to the rule. And my first comment was simply a flippant statement knowing that this study involved lacto/ovo diets, which since you're new to this site, you will eventually realize people here make on a regular basis. But in response to your comment where I was refering to vegans/vegetarians, I live in an area where vegetarians abound, so I see what an average vegetarian looks like. I've dealt with them on a regular basis and the level of self-righteousness is something to behold. 95% of them are pasty, emaciated looking individuals. I went to college where there is a dorm building devoted to "alternative" lifestyles, which included vegetarians of differing types, none of which were athletic nor participated in anything that required more physical exertion than throwing around a frisbee when it was nice out, and in fact some of them dropped the vegetarian life style all together. When I was a strength coach I had athletes who WERE vegetarians but went to carniverous consumption of their own accord and made more strength and size gains after switching. This was with both high school and college level athletes. So before you start taking jabs at people on this site Mr. No Avatar, you may want to think about what you type before you do so. And after writing what you may consider some convoluted diatribe, I will also tell you that I won't be giving into your subliminal homosexual request for a picture of myself. I normally wouldn't write back to a comment like yours but it's been so long since we've had a true jackass here that I just couldn't help myself.
mountainman33
Well-known member
LMuscle
Well-known member
Whoa
wiseman
Member
Hahahaha it's easy to call all vegetarians/vegans pasty etc when you don't have a photo but nice rhetoric trying to call me gay, and I think that comment about homosexuality is really a projection of your own desires as Freud or Jung would say. I would really love to know your age, but then again, age doesn't define ones maturity.. If you think vegans are pasty then I'd like for you to tell that to Tony Gonzalez one of the best tight ends ever to play because he's a vegan and has been one for quite a while. Also there is another famous/allstar football player on the Texans who's a vegan and I believe he's a running back. What about all the MMA fighters that are turning vegan because of the benefits they've seen their counterparts experience. So before you spout your idiotic gibberish filled with anecdotal experiences use your mind and some logic and realize that your comments are asinine. It's easy to be an Internet tough guy but I bet you're like those guys who drive a raised truck and then gets out and stands 5'4
Mperkins
Active member
you probably played back up QB in high school and never got a down so you bitch about sports because coach wouldnt put you in..
Mperkins
Active member
Lol! Nah, we know you're cool. Even if you're a Seahawks fan.
awe thanks bud
that superbowl win is sure nice! but the seahawks have been making alot of moves this off season.. i hope we can recover from losing soo many keys. lions, packers, and broncos are the teams i think will be DANGEROUS this coming year
mountainman33
Well-known member
My age is under my avatar genius. And here, just to satisfy your curiosity.
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mountainman33
Well-known member
awe thanks bud
Hopefully the Pats pick ups will get a defense like you guys. We need it.
wiseman
Member
You're as dumb as Jay Cutler lol
wiseman
Member
I know natural vegan/vegetarian bodybuilders way more muscular and leaner than you, which proves my point...,
mountainman33
Well-known member
And I'm not a bodybuilder, I'm a manager for a commercial building supply company. So not entirely sure you've proven anything....
wiseman
Member
The only thing that's dumb is you because you are ignoring the CONTEXT of the situation. How many vegan/vegetarian bbs do you know? LOL and
FitnessLuke
Member
Im not trying to stir anything between both of yall, but being a vegetarian is a stupid idea if you wanna take your physical performance to the max. I mean humans were intended to eat meat. Its okay if youre a vegetarian, but I just find it an unneccessary burdon on your life. You have to buy expensive crappy tasting food and nothing compares to animal protein. My aunt starting loosing her hair from being a vegetarian bc she want getting the vital protein needed.
Anyways I guess props to the people who can do ot
FitnessLuke
Member
I strongly feel you will live longer and healthier eating fish and meat. No some tofu processed crap.
wiseman
Member
Tony Gonzalez is a vegan he's an all star football player. Problem is that people don't know how to go vegan or vegetarian. The movement is growing though. Vegan bbs get plenty of protein, but at the same time protein is over hyped because of the meat industry along with protein powders. There are A LOT of athletes like MMA, NBA, and nfl that are vegans. Just do some research and youll see. I'm not a vegan or a veg btw
liftandeat
Active member
Wiseman you need to stop getting your panties in a bunch about what other people say. Just do u. That being said, being a vegetarian is stupid if you're trying to build muscle. I'm not saying it's a bad lifestyle choice but purely for performance its insuperior.
wiseman
Member
Unmm the notion that vegans and vegetarianism is bad for muscle growth has been proven wrong. Time to catch up to the times. If you don't believe me look at the MNA fighters that are vegan, or Tony Gonzalez and Arian Foster from the texans. Youre just reciting what you've read in bodybuilding mags and the Internet lol do some research.
FitnessLuke
Member
Well even though I am a Texans fan...we were the worst team in the nfl, so bad reference there haha. You can deff get in shape being a vegan, but you would more than likely get way better results with meat and your vegetables.
You cant argue vegetables+meat=optimum performance
You cant argue vegetables+meat=optimum performance
liftandeat
Active member
I would ask for you to post a study done proving your point but there are so many BS studys done with an agenda that I don't believe a lot of them anymore. And you can't cite professional athletes because they are genetically superior to most people. I bet Arian Foster and Tony Gonzalez would be even better if they ate meat.
Am I the only one that feels this is common sense?
FitnessLuke
Member
Great response...furthermore so many pros have done roids under he radar. At least at one point in their life. Yes there are drug test but my friend who plays college ball says at least half his time is juicing....so yeah steroids + vegan diet will get anyone to a good performance.
Whacked
Well-known member
Hey wiseman. What's with the attitude?
You jumped the OP's position right out of the gate for just sharing his opinion.
Perhaps your deprivation of meat has caused you more misery than you are aware. Eat some meat and live a little. You sound so needlessly angry and miserable.
Good grief. Breathe bro.
Ps. Of course Tony Gonzales doesn't look like your typical cadaver-shaded vegan .... He is a mixture of African American, Jamaican, Indian and Cape Verdian (a group of islands off the western coast of Africa )
Lolol
You jumped the OP's position right out of the gate for just sharing his opinion.
Perhaps your deprivation of meat has caused you more misery than you are aware. Eat some meat and live a little. You sound so needlessly angry and miserable.
Good grief. Breathe bro.
Ps. Of course Tony Gonzales doesn't look like your typical cadaver-shaded vegan .... He is a mixture of African American, Jamaican, Indian and Cape Verdian (a group of islands off the western coast of Africa )
Lolol
Whacked
Well-known member
the_swol_god
Banned
One does not simply eat purely vegetables and expect to see gains
hardwork25
Well-known member
The so called vegan movement you speak of doesn't exist.
This is the problem with ANY activist, special interest group, or "movement," the people usually involved in them have no common sense.
Keep defending your position based on two NFL players, a BB you know, and the oh so scientific "mma and nba athletes moving to vegan."
This is the problem with ANY activist, special interest group, or "movement," the people usually involved in them have no common sense.
Keep defending your position based on two NFL players, a BB you know, and the oh so scientific "mma and nba athletes moving to vegan."
sfull006
New member
I ate vegetarian for a year and vegan for three months. I did it more as an experiment than anything. Not everyone on the diet is self righteous or pious about it and I didn't notice any pasty white skin either. I've seen a lot of paleo diet people get just as worked up about it as vegetarians do about their diet. There are also a lot of vegetarian and even a few vegan body builders out there. My goal now is to build muscle though and I think doing that on a vegetarian diet while completely possible requires more discipline.... So I'm not currently eating vegetarian.
Type O Hero
Banned
Bill Peral secretly ate bacon and ****ing loved it.
Type O Hero
Banned
Vegans are lame to most everyone who isn't Vegan.
Quadzilla99
Member
Lol'd
wiseman
Member
You're spot on!
wiseman
Member
Haha you're a tool
wiseman
Member
Funny how flustered you get haha
wiseman
Member
Have you seen Jays wife hahahhahahhajahahahha
hardwork25
Well-known member
wiseman
Member
You sound intelligent but you also didn't read what I wrote and are obviously a bigot (what the **** does his race have to do with his physique). I'm not a vegan or vegetarian Hahahahahahaha I just know a few who are and are probably bigger, leaner AND stronger than you. I have a lot of respect for those who take the initiative and prove the nay Sayers like you wrong
wiseman
Member
mtinsideout
Well-known member
I feel like the majority of people who go vegan or vegetarian neglect the fact that you need a certain amount of protein and the right combinations of food to get all the essential amino acids. To be a vegetarian or vegan bodybuilder (or even athlete) I don't know how you could meet the calorie requirements without a lot of processed foods. Also from what I've seen those diets are expensive lol.
wiseman
Member
They get adequate amounts of protein. The thing is that vegan and vegetarian bbs and athletes aren't concerned with carbs like non vegans etc so they get adequate amount of Kcals and protein. It's not an easy thing to do but it is very possible. They don't have to eat a lot of processed foods either. Think fruits and grains like rice and quinoa.
mtinsideout
Well-known member
I don't disagree that its impossible, it would just have to be well thought out and really limits your food diversity. Also a cup of oatmeal is only like 150cals, an apple is 100cals.... I mean to get 3000+calories you'd have to have some serious room in your stomach lol.
mountainman33
Well-known member
The adequacy of the protein DOES come into play though because beef, pork, chicken, and fish are all complete proteins by themselves. Each one has an amino acid profile that doesn't require accessory protein to complete a human protein chain. Vegetable protein is different because it has what is called a "limiting chain" amino acid. This means that there is 1, possibly 2, amino acids in their profile that don't provide enough quantity to create a human protein chain. Therefore you need accessory protein in order for the vegetable protein to be usefull. This requires multiple vegetable proteins to create human protein chains except for soy. Soy protein is a "complete" protein, but the problem with soy, unless it's soy protein isolate, contains isoflaves which largely resemble estrogen, and effect the body in much the same way as estrogen. I don't know any bodybuilders who want increased estrogen, let alone an estrogen mimicker in their body. And in order to get the proper amount of calories and protein from a vegetarian life style to grow requires eating exhorbatant amounts of food. No one wants to have to eat even more constantly than lifters do on a carniverous diet to grow, which they already do. And what hardwork25 was talking about was the fact that vegetarianism is a lifestyle choice with such vehement followers it is similar to a cult. People follow it blindly with making itteligent choices on their own, they do it because they're being followers, which it seams most vegetarians are: followers. Whacked was refering to Tony Gonzales' skin color because we spoke of the pasty skin color of vegetarins in several posts here, pay attention. One of the proven facts about the human body is that we need fat. Yes NEED it. There are several process in the body including hormone production, hair and skin health, it's part of joint lubircation, and well as a key component in body temp. regulation. Animal fat is FAR superior to taking care of those processes than vegetable fat.
wiseman
Member
There are PLENTY of amino acids in different non-animal foods. Think Gorillas, horses, and many other animals that exhibit great strength and muscularity that do not eat meat. It's the amino acids that are important and when you combine food you get the right amounts. Also, protein is over hyped and over sold because its profitable ie meat and dairy industry along with the protein powder industry. That is why they've been pushing protein. Our muscles are only 22-25% protein and the rest is mainly glycogen (carbs) and water (carboHYDRATE)
Don't speak for someone else. That guy was not referring to pasty skin! He was being a bigot and making it about race. Surprised you don't see that, but I guess if I was you I wouldn't want to see it either.
Animal fat is not superior to coconut oil and the many other fats out there. Guess where people live th longest? Japan! Do they eat a lot of meat? NO! Then people talk about the Eskimos eating high fat diets and they're average life span is 50 years compared to the Japanese who like well beyond their 80's.
All soy is not bad. Research tempeh.
A lot of people have a huge misconception of veganism and vegetarianism. I have a few friends who follow that lifestyle (I live in LA and its popular here) and they are strong, lean, and have size.
People don't realize that the protein industry is profitable ie meat, dairy and protein powders, and we're given these ideas that protein is so important but protein isn't as important ad they make it seem. For example, the body can normally only utilize 20-30 grams of protein each meal.
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mtinsideout
Well-known member
Gorillas and many other animals eat insects to compensate protein needs. Also those animals were made to process a lot more food than humans are. Our ancestors may not have survived without the ability to eat meat.
Edit: If you look at the amount of grass it takes to match the calories in a 4-ounce steak you'll understand why cows spend the day grazing. Also we can't process grass, it just won't break down in our system the way it will in a cow. The simple fact is we are not those other animals that get huge on a vegetarian diet. Again not that it can't be done but it would have to be intelligently thought out and probably tedious to maintain.
mountainman33
Well-known member
This is from your "study":
"It remains unknown whether the optimal dose of protein for the maximal stimulation of muscle protein synthesis differs between the 120-kg athlete and 80-kg male exerciser compared with the 60-kg female exerciser", nevermind that fact it was a biased sponsered study. Just look at the study that came out claiming that eating too much protein is as bad as smoking cigarettes. It was a sponsered study by a company that is working on a vegetable based nutrition drink. You want to talk about propaganda?
"Meat has been eaten in Japan in larger amounts only since the second half of the 19th century, particularly thanks to their Kobe beef industry". This from a Japanese travel site. Never mind that fact that the Japanese fishing industry is one of the strongest in the world due to their fish consumption. Strike 2.
You said "horses, and many other animals that exhibit great strength and muscularity that do not eat meat. It's the amino acids that are important and when you combine food you get the right amounts." Horses, cows, deer, elk, moose all have differnent protein sythesis mechanisms compared to humans, and how canine teeth have you ever seen in any of those animals? We have canines for a reason. But you also went right along with what I said before about combining foods to get the right amounts. I could eat 1 steak and get everything my body needs for survival, right there, in that 1 steak. I would need multiple sources of vegetarian fare in order to get what I needed in order to survive. Strike 3
And how many people do you know that have put on pounds of muscle without "overhyped protein" to build muscle? NONE. Strike 4
Japanese life span vs. eskimos (Inuits) is based on physical fitness and exercise (or lack there of). Since Japanes citizens have access to more physical activities on a daily basis they tend to live longer. They are considered one of the most active populations on the planet. Strike 5