Article: Instant Ketosis

There is already an effective supplement that does this. It's called MCT. In fact, MCT not only causes the liver to produce ketone bodies, but it also wastes tons of energy to do it, making it a double-effective supplement for either lean mass gains or a lypolytic accelerant.
 
fueledpassion said:
There is already an effective supplement that does this. It's called MCT. In fact, MCT not only causes the liver to produce ketone bodies, but it also wastes tons of energy to do it, making it a double-effective supplement for either lean mass gains or a lypolytic accelerant.
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The difference of course as you pointed out being that this is an external source of biologically available ketones, versus MCT's being food precursors to ketones and ergo completely irrelevant. That's like saying eating protein is the same as taking in a measured dose of leucine...

Pat you are the man, always enjoy reading anything you have to say.
 
fueledpassion said:
There is already an effective supplement that does this. It's called MCT. In fact, MCT not only causes the liver to produce ketone bodies, but it also wastes tons of energy to do it, making it a double-effective supplement for either lean mass gains or a lypolytic accelerant.
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Also FYI any oil will ultimately produce ketones... ketones are the end result of oil digestion. MCTs and SCTs are just preferable to long chains because of digestion rates. Why would I want my liver to waste its glycogen making ketones from coconut oil when I can takd Pats supp and be taking in energy? Burning energy is lipolytic (el oh el the redundancy here) as you've stated... but that not conducive my mass gains goals, particularly when pats ketones don't require insulin to fuel my muscles...
 
Referring to TEF values. 100 kcals of MCT's might equate to only 40 net calories (not a precise number just an estimate).

MCT's do not require insulin and do not release insulin. Don't know where you got that from. MCT's are small enough to pass through the portal vein and into the liver which performes Krebs cycling. Furthermore, this can be digestedsimultaneously with carbs making it a viable option for adding clean calories to a bulking diet.

It's a LOT cheaper and increases metabolism greatly while also encouraging fat loss. It prevents muscle-wasting when on low carb diets as well which is ideal for one trying to cut. I dont consider it theory since I've tried it and it works. If you consume 20% of your diet in MCT's, you'll see radical shifts to a more muscular development, even without a heavy presence of carbs.
 
fueledpassion said:
There is already an effective supplement that does this. It's called MCT. In fact, MCT not only causes the liver to produce ketone bodies, but it also wastes tons of energy to do it, making it a double-effective supplement for either lean mass gains or a lypolytic accelerant.
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You keep beating me to it Fueled :) Still glad you are on these boards mate.
 
I was under the impression that all cell in the body can use ketones for fuel BUT brain cells, reason as to why one on a low carb diet has headaches, cannot perform mental tasks well and has mood swings?!
 
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After keto-adaptation the brain can derive around 80% of its energy from ketones, but it still needs some glucose via diet or gluconeogenesis .
 
Wocheezy said:
After keto-adaptation the brain can derive around 80% of its energy from ketones, but it still needs some glucose via diet or gluconeogenesis .
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In doing this, it also converts a much heavier percentage of amino acids into glucose for energy since they readily convert. This is also why BCAA's are essential in any carb or calorie deficient diet.
 
fueledpassion said:
Referring to TEF values. 100 kcals of MCT's might equate to only 40 net calories (not a precise number just an estimate).

MCT's do not require insulin and do not release insulin. Don't know where you got that from. MCT's are small enough to pass through the portal vein and into the liver which performes Krebs cycling. Furthermore, this can be digestedsimultaneously with carbs making it a viable option for adding clean calories to a bulking diet.

It's a LOT cheaper and increases metabolism greatly while also encouraging fat loss. It prevents muscle-wasting when on low carb diets as well which is ideal for one trying to cut. I dont consider it theory since I've tried it and it works. If you consume 20% of your diet in MCT's, you'll see radical shifts to a more muscular development, even without a heavy presence of carbs.
Click to expand...

Sorry I wasn't knocking MCT oils, I was drawing this parallel- ketone:MCT::HICA:Leucine. Its the end product and ergo doesn't need energy to produce. As far as insulin I meant I can use ketones to fuel skeletal muscles in the ABSENCE of insulin ie sans carbs or as part of carb back loading. Which is excellent because no insulin means glut 4 can pull all the carbs I DO eat straight into my muscles.

Good thoughts guys
Cheers
 
Jakeoh said:
Sorry I wasn't knocking MCT oils, I was drawing this parallel- ketone:MCT::HICA:Leucine. Its the end product and ergo doesn't need energy to produce. As far as insulin I meant I can use ketones to fuel skeletal muscles in the ABSENCE of insulin ie sans carbs or as part of carb back loading. Which is excellent because no insulin means glut 4 can pull all the carbs I DO eat straight into my muscles.

Good thoughts guys
Cheers
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Got it. To understand why I love MCT's is really about three aspects of energy metabolism - Respiratory Quotient (RQ), Food Quotient (FQ) and TEF values.

MCT's offer a less efficient TEF value than LCF's, which makes them better for keeping a lean body, especially when bulking. Basically, if I shift my macro's towards a less efficient TEF average, then I can still eat a "maintenance level" as before but still burn fat since more calories are released as heat rather than stored as body fat. Even better, I can "cut" without ever activating the homeostatic mechanisms to maintain constant body weight. In a nut shell, MCT's aid in my effort to "trick" my body into painlessly burning fat. Doubly, they also are a good replacement for carbs. So I can have two mechanisms at work to target fat loss without ever making serious cuts to my total calories.

By cutting calories, your body will resist change in body composition. The more calories you cut, the more pronounced the effort to resist becomes.
 
mrmello said:
I was under the impression that all cell in the body can use ketones for fuel BUT brain cells, reason as to why one on a low carb diet has headaches, cannot perform mental tasks well and has mood swings?!
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Actually mrmello ketogenic diets work much better for your brain and have a protective effect on it. The initial reason keto diets ever came into mainstream is because epileptics that could not be medicated could be put onto a keto diet to prevent seizures. It takes time for the adaption to occur though and high protein is recommended to encourage gluconeogensis too. Do a quick search on pubmed and it will be easy to spot.
 
Pandabear said:
Actually mrmello ketogenic diets work much better for your brain and have a protective effect on it. The initial reason keto diets ever came into mainstream is because epileptics that could not be medicated could be put onto a keto diet to prevent seizures. It takes time for the adaption to occur though and high protein is recommended to encourage gluconeogensis too. Do a quick search on pubmed and it will be easy to spot.
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Interestingly Panda, I learned the other day that a diet with 40-50% MCT's reduces seizuresm, lol. Turns out this stuff has medical applications too.
 
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