Article: How to Win an Argument With a Vegan

The article hasn't been written yet because nobody knows how to win an argument with a vegan.
 
It's usually vegans who are very outspoken and start arguments.

I've tried it out in the past when I was in my early twenties, but I felt horrible after a year, so I went back to eating animal products again gradually, starting with eggs/dairy.
 
I think you are supposed to just show the pic of the little girl eating a rib to show how happy she is to be eating meat.
 
Most people are vegans for moral reasons. This article is silly. Humans are omnivores. We evolved eating meat. Other primates eat meat. We don't eat humans because in mammals eating animal to genetically close leads to disease. That is how aids came about in humans, eating monkey meat. Humans are rational agents animals are not. Fish and reptiles can't even feel fear. If it is ok to take away plant life then Life itself is not a valid reason to not be eaten.
 
vygah said:
Most people are vegans for moral reasons. This article is silly. Humans are omnivores. We evolved eating meat. Other primates eat meat. We don't eat humans because in mammals eating animal to genetically close leads to disease. That is how aids came about in humans, eating monkey meat. Humans are rational agents animals are not. Fish and reptiles can't even feel fear. If it is ok to take away plant life then Life itself is not a valid reason to not be eaten.
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Aids from eating monkey meat? Where did you get that from? The origin of AIDS is not known, but is thought to have been passed from chimpanzees to hunters through contact of blood. And eating animals genetically close does not lead to disease. There are still a few cannibals in remote places, living the way they have for centuries.
 
reefhog said:
Aids from eating monkey meat? Where did you get that from? The origin of AIDS is not known, but is thought to have been passed from chimpanzees to hunters through contact of blood. And eating animals genetically close does not lead to disease. There are still a few cannibals in remote places, living the way they have for centuries.
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You are both incorrect. AIDS first surfaced when Belgian scientists in the Congo used chimpanzee kidneys in order to cultivate a polio vaccine. The safety of cannibalism is still under debate.
 
Vegan mainly says:

Humans are mainly herbivores even tho you can say we can digest anything some things are worst for us because we slowly damage our digestive system and in case you could eat meat normally you are not gonna eat the overproduction that are nowadays in the world because we are overfed and it is causing a huge holocaust there isn't any other name for that as it is an unbalanced approach to even a carnivore point of view.

We are too many and too little of them intelligent enough to control the rest of us and one of the way is making you believe anything in order to sustain their miserable lives full of luxury.

Anyway would you kill your cat or dog? Why not? Would you suffer for it?

Hey you need to eat your protein. Yeah sure what about a Lion eating your Mom... He needs its protein...

So it's that wrong from a Lion and right from a Human killing anything for the sake of eating protein? Remember your Mom again being eaten by a Lion for the same purpose. Nothing wrong with it. That way even cannibalism should be O.K. as long as you have your protein daily intake.

I mean there is the suffering I was talking about.

Why is so hard to understand suffering in any living animal is as real as human suffering. Unless you are a masochist no one likes suffering.

What do you want your brain for as a "Superior Animal"? To behave like everyone and avoid thinking further?

Hey and I am not trying to convince anyone I am just trying to let everyone know that the health concern is just as egoist as the meat, pharmaceutical, agriculture industry. They don't care if you die as long as they can sustain their luxury and thats what you actually do with animals to sustain your eating luxury.

If another specie from out of this world would come and do that to us we would then understand whats this all about.

Anyway I hope you don't eat your cat once you run out of money one day.
 
I was actually vegan for a couple years in my early twenties, for reasons of morality. However, it made me feel utterly horrible, and also crashed my testosterone. I had to start eating animal products & animal fat again. It's not for everyone, and that's the truth.

I prefer to be in touch with my primal self, and my diet is now 50% meat, 30%fat, 20% carbs (roughly) and I couldn't be feeling any better. My personal health means more to me than the animals I eat.
 
Many people can't give up smoking feeling anxious without it so they go back. It's all in your mind.

I am not gonna ask you to show proof of your blood work in order to backup that statement but even if you would then life style can have a lot to say which is not gonna be told in order to analyse your personal experience.

Ask Frank Medrano about testosterone and being Vegan. Meat has nothing to do with test maybe fat (cholesterol specially) increases it but there are other food sources can increase or maintain your testosterone. Protein is protein so aminoacids does not matter where they come from. Your body understands aminoacid types not food sources.
 
Yes, it's all about saturated fats = cholesterol = testosterone

It is possible to be vegan and healthy, but extremely extremely difficult. You need lots of olive oil, coconut oil, sprouted grains, and on and on and on. And NO soy. Not to mention so many other restrictions. I know the whole deal.

I was eating a ton of soy back then and didn't know about coconut oil, thus, my estrogen skyrocketed, test plummeted. I lived like this for a long long time and eventually went on TRT, I could not raise my test levels back up afterwards. And it was not in my mind at all. I felt like utter **** after a long time on the diet. NO energy, and I was very athletic even back then. I **** you not, I definitely started to feel better once I added saturated fat back into my diet...but I did not feel totally normal again until I started TRT. It's science. But I prefer to eat a diet with very little grains, lots of meat and animal fat, and vegetables/fruit. I eat a somewhat Paleolithic diet now and feel amazing.

You know what the most important thing is though, it's everyone's personal choice.
 
Fats are incredibly important with maintaining hormones. I've discussed this so many times with my endo and other hormone therapists and they always say that the first thing they follow up on is diet and more often than not, adding in good fats helps address multiple areas.
 
Don't have time to debunk the whole article and I wouldn't see the point in doing that (most people won't change their beliefs when presented with evidences, they'll just go with what they want to believe, it's called cognitive dissonance) I'll just point out the conclusion right from the second source the author use to make his conclusion.

"Conclusions

The results of our analysis support a moderate positive association between processed meat consumption and mortality, in particular due to cardiovascular diseases, but also to cancer. "

I wish some the author could be more intelectuallty honest with himself and everyone else instead of misleading people and distorting data.
 
Just because something isn't agreed upon doesn't make anyone dishonest or misleading. You are vegan and made the diet choices you have in the same manner that those who aren't have done.

Don't fall into the stereotype by trying to tell us why your way is better.
 
Here is a good way to put the whole thing into perspective:

Most vegans are somewhat similar to religious extremists, they tend to want to force their opinions onto others, they want to convert the world, and they want to make you feel guilty and inferior if you don't follow their way of doing things or their beliefs. This way of going about things won't actually help to convert anyone. It's a personal decision, just like spirituality is a very personal thing.
 
If a lion ate my mom, I wouldn't blame the lion, it's what they do.
We did evolve into omnivores that's pretty much fact I think. Going without meat for a year will not change years of evolution.
The biggest problem imo, is the vegan that gets their panties in a wad around omnis, and starts going off on them. Like the woman on YouTube that went into a restaurant screaming and crying at those people eating her "friends". If you want to be vegan, go for it, just don't be a nutcase about it to others. That doesn't win over anyone.
I admit, some conditions they put animals in for food are deplorable. But then some government housing humans live in is deplorable too. It's all relative. I'm one of those that gets meat and dairy locally from real farms, but not everyone has access to that. I would be one to tell others to watch where their meat comes from. Im against GMO lab meat but I ain't screaming at anyone to not eat Walmart meat.
But whatevs, would I eat my cat? Only with fried rice and teriyaki sauce. Just kidding, he's too old and tough.
 
vygah said:
Most people are vegans for moral reasons. This article is silly. Humans are omnivores. We evolved eating meat. Other primates eat meat. We don't eat humans because in mammals eating animal to genetically close leads to disease. That is how aids came about in humans, eating monkey meat. Humans are rational agents animals are not. Fish and reptiles can't even feel fear. If it is ok to take away plant life then Life itself is not a valid reason to not be eaten.
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where's your evidence for the aids accusation?
 
I like the last point this article makes: "As with most things in nutrition, this depends entirely on the individual.

The biggest thing that all successful diets (or “ways of eating”) have in common is that they eliminate processed foods.

This is true of vegan diets, low carb diets, paleo diets and the well studied Mediterranean diet.

As long as the diet consists of whole, single ingredient foods, then it doesn’t matter whether the majority of calories comes from plants or animal foods."
 
AIDS evolved. Guess what not everything that happens in the world is the result of something *people* did. There are a lot of other kinds of living creatures and they all pursue their own agendas, without so much as a sideways glance at what people are doing.

I have nothing against veganism, however it does seem rooted in morality. You can eat for bodybuilding on a vegan diet, but it's not simple. There's a steep learning curve. Eating meat OTOH is quite simple. In fact, maintaining good health on a vegan diet is not easy. You can't just consume "normal" foods, you have to be very picky, much more so than your typical bodybuilding diet I think, which is, btw, way beyond what the average person does for their diet. So that means that vegans are actually consuming more in terms of resources, since they have to be so picky and pass over or discard so much.
 
Why making animals suffer when you can have a balance diet without them? Does it make you feel stronger? Is there any compassion in you for the weak?

Same goes to human right do you think a Vegans only thinks for animals slavery? Humans are not killed in the same way and they are not treated like Black people not more than 200 years ago and we do understand that now and it wasn't understood as many people don't referring to animals. They were also called animals! isn't that a blasphemy? They are living beings like the rest of us "animals" Or you think you are not an animal?

Vegans do not try to convince you of an extremism their role is to open your eyes closed by the meat industry. You do things because you were told to. You see things "normal" because someone has the money to pay absurd propaganda which your parents believed and they passed on to you.

In some countries women don't have rights. Is that what you think? Why don't you think that way?
Because someone told you how it works in your country?
You the same person born in another country will have other beliefs.
Some people believe in killing humans in the name of God. Is that right? Luckily some people stand for themselves and make their brain work freely without traditions or any kind of brainwash.

To be honest are you insensible enough to butcher 100 animals a day with a knife without feeling guilty?

Then if you can't don't look the other way and send others to do it. That's hypocrisy.
Are we good human beings? Who dictates whats good and whats bad? That's ignorance.
Killing a dog has prison sentence and we can slaughter 300 animals every second just for luxury? That's hypocrisy.
Is wearing Fur clothes seen by many as an unnecessary action and everyone wears a leather belt? That's hypocrisy.

If you feel pain and fear you should understand what they go through.

This actions are not necessary in terms of nutrition and it's been debunked many times. When people don't want to see the truth because they are LAZY! to change they come up with articles like this one mentioning nutrition lacks in vegetarians. There are more important things than yourself and it's natures balance. The world is collapsing and we are contributing one way or another. That's egoism.

Let me tell you a couple more things about nutrition before I finish.

B12 deficiency can happen in Vegan as well as Meat Eaters it is just a matter of what you eat.
B12 is injected in cows for you to absorb it. Now is that the reason you eating meat? Then go buy a B12 supplement in the end is the same B12 source and it cost less.

Do you need saturated fat and cholesterol to maintain your testosterone levels? Then do and buy some coconut oil. I repeat your body understands food macros, nutrients and micronutrients not food source.

Ominivore? Really? So something that doesn't kill you instantly means you can eat it? We can smoke and not die instantly but it doesn't mean your body can handle it without suffering and pass on to you the luxury bill later. It's so simple that it escapes our perception. Our digestive system has nothing to do with a Lion it's been told many times. We are closer to Frugivores thats true science not studies paid by the same rich people. You can call those paid studies propaganda.

Check on google images humans are Frugivores.

Remember put an apple and a baby chicken in a room with a child and guess what he will play with the chicken and eat the apple isn't that nature? So how come we have changed so much over the years? Because you were told to not because it comes coded in your DNA.

What about protein mate I need my protein...

There are a lot of plant protein source concentrates in the market nowadays plus everything you eat apart from meat contains protein. Including the famous abolished soy.

Talking about Soy... If you avoid eating Soy because of estrogens content why eating cows and pigs when they are fed with Soy mostly? Don't you see they are tricking you like a child?
Plus cows contained double dose with the extra rBGH if that wasn't enough. So it is a nonsense talking about estrogens in Soy when you have been eating Soy and estrogens though a cows meat.

Whey protein was a waste back in the days and now they sell it to you. They have convinced you that it is the best protein source for the bodybuilder.

Casein is awfully bad for your body and they still convinced you that it will prevent catabolism. Did you know a digestion can last for 8-10 hours to complete? Do you think your body goes catabolic when sleeping for 8 hours? I have been doing IF for the past two years everyday and have done many 21 hours fast. I have not lost a gram of muscle instead I have gained or maintained my muscle mass better than ever. If you go catabolic in 8 hours I should have disappeared already at that rate.

Multi Vitamins? Yeah you need one because meat does't not contain proper amounts of vitamins and it does not contain all of them. If you base your diet in meat and rice/past/bread which by the way are useless nutritionally you'll have deficiencies whatsoever. Fruits is a better alternative proving carbs as well as vitamins.

The world is owned by money makers and they own you they own your thoughts and they channel you in any way they want thought marketing and stupid beliefs.

We are "intelligent" puppets thats all...We just need to cut the strings.
 
animani said:
Why making animals suffer when you can have a balance diet without them? Does it make you feel stronger? Is there any compassion in you for the weak? Same goes to human right do you think a Vegans only thinks for animals slavery? Humans are not killed in the same way and they are not treated like Black people not more than 200 years ago and we do understand that now and it wasn't understood as many people don't referring to animals. They were also called animals! isn't that a blasphemy? They are living beings like the rest of us "animals" Or you think you are not an animal? Vegans do not try to convince you of an extremism their role is to open your eyes closed by the meat industry. You do things because you were told to. You see things "normal" because someone has the money to pay absurd propaganda which your parents believed and they passed on to you. In some countries women don't have rights. Is that what you think? Why don't you think that way? Because someone told you how it works in your country? You the same person born in another country will have other beliefs. Some people believe in killing humans in the name of God. Is that right? Luckily some people stand for themselves and make their brain work freely without traditions or any kind of brainwash. To be honest are you insensible enough to butcher 100 animals a day with a knife without feeling guilty? Then if you can't don't look the other way and send others to do it. That's hypocrisy. Are we good human beings? Who dictates whats good and whats bad? That's ignorance. Killing a dog has prison sentence and we can slaughter 300 animals every second just for luxury? That's hypocrisy. Is wearing Fur clothes seen by many as an unnecessary action and everyone wears a leather belt? That's hypocrisy. If you feel pain and fear you should understand what they go through. This actions are not necessary in terms of nutrition and it's been debunked many times. When people don't want to see the truth because they are LAZY! to change they come up with articles like this one mentioning nutrition lacks in vegetarians. There are more important things than yourself and it's natures balance. The world is collapsing and we are contributing one way or another. That's egoism. Let me tell you a couple more things about nutrition before I finish. B12 deficiency can happen in Vegan as well as Meat Eaters it is just a matter of what you eat. B12 is injected in cows for you to absorb it. Now is that the reason you eating meat? Then go buy a B12 supplement in the end is the same B12 source and it cost less. Do you need saturated fat and cholesterol to maintain your testosterone levels? Then do and buy some coconut oil. I repeat your body understands food macros, nutrients and micronutrients not food source. Ominivore? Really? So something that doesn't kill you instantly means you can eat it? We can smoke and not die instantly but it doesn't mean your body can handle it without suffering and pass on to you the luxury bill later. It's so simple that it escapes our perception. Our digestive system has nothing to do with a Lion it's been told many times. We are closer to Frugivores thats true science not studies paid by the same rich people. You can call those paid studies propaganda. Check on google images humans are Frugivores. Remember put an apple and a baby chicken in a room with a child and guess what he will play with the chicken and eat the apple isn't that nature? So how come we have changed so much over the years? Because you were told to not because it comes coded in your DNA. What about protein mate I need my protein... There are a lot of plant protein source concentrates in the market nowadays plus everything you eat apart from meat contains protein. Including the famous abolished soy. Talking about Soy... If you avoid eating Soy because of estrogens content why eating cows and pigs when they are fed with Soy mostly? Don't you see they are tricking you like a child? Plus cows contained double dose with the extra rBGH if that wasn't enough. So it is a nonsense talking about estrogens in Soy when you have been eating Soy and estrogens though a cows meat. Whey protein was a waste back in the days and now they sell it to you. They have convinced you that it is the best protein source for the bodybuilder. Casein is awfully bad for your body and they still convinced you that it will prevent catabolism. Did you know a digestion can last for 8-10 hours to complete? Do you think your body goes catabolic when sleeping for 8 hours? I have been doing IF for the past two years everyday and have done many 21 hours fast. I have not lost a gram of muscle instead I have gained or maintained my muscle mass better than ever. If you go catabolic in 8 hours I should have disappeared already at that rate. Multi Vitamins? Yeah you need one because meat does't not contain proper amounts of vitamins and it does not contain all of them. If you base your diet in meat and rice/past/bread which by the way are useless nutritionally you'll have deficiencies whatsoever. Fruits is a better alternative proving carbs as well as vitamins. The world is owned by money makers and they own you they own your thoughts and they channel you in any way they want thought marketing and stupid beliefs. We are "intelligent" puppets thats all...We just need to cut the strings.
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thanks for wasting 3 mins of my life. Learn how to type if you're gonna type so seriously .
 
Do you really think meat eaters only eat meat, bread and pasta? We do also eat fruit and vegetables. It's called having a balanced and varied diet. Red meat is the most efficient way to get iron and calcium, along with having B vitamins and of course complete protein. And you obviously don't know that liver has more vitamin C than any fruit or vegetable and is one of the most nutrient dense foods there is.
Also you can get all vitamins from meat, usually in higher amounts than in vegetables.
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I see you don't care and have respect for animals if you prefer liver instead of fruits. No need to express what was so obvious.

Yeah kickastar don't waste your time and go waste others life. Well done!
 
You don't seem to understand, we can have both, not just one or the other. That's what makes us omnivores, not herbivores. Also I was pointing out that your comment about meat not having enough vitamins is just incorrect. You're just like a religious dickhead, who thinks that by telling everyone what you believe, they are suddenly going to believe the same bull****.
 
and I counterpoint animanii's argument with steak, and bacon for the win.
 
animani said:
I see you don't care and have respect for animals if you prefer liver instead of fruits. No need to express what was so obvious. Yeah kickastar don't waste your time and go waste others life. Well done!
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is kickastar referring to me? Lmao
 
animani said:
I see you don't care and have respect for animals if you prefer liver instead of fruits. No need to express what was so obvious. Yeah kickastar don't waste your time and go waste others life. Well done!
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By the way, you're a self righteous f***. You don't give a **** about saving animals you give a **** about shoving it down others throats. We are the dominant species on earth for the most part. We use them as a resource of food just like any other species more dominant than animals we consume would.

If we free all the chickens, they will most likely be eaten in the wild and killed brutally.

If we leave fish alone there wil be a bigger predator at their doorstep ready to eat them.

If we leave cattle be in the wild they could very well be eaten by wolves. This is extreme but just pointing out that us eating them is most likely no different than what would happen to them in the wild, it's human nature.

Plants are living and you kill them and eat them
don't you ?
 
I am very sorry to hear so much ignorance in this forum.

I am not in any way trying to convince anyone of my living style. I am just trying to express we don't need to kill other living beings in order to be healthy.

Animals nowadays are created just for slavery reasons so there are more animals in the world than it would be normally and they are not living free until they die no matter how they die but they lived happily like any animal in the world.

As you ignorants say they will die anyway why you care so much about your life if you gonna die one day. Do you try to enjoy until it comes? Well others too.

So you saying those chickens will be killed in the wild? So So sorry you did not have enough brain to think twice before posting because there are over 150 Billion animals caged and slaughtered every year and thats not Natures Plan thats the worst bacteria plans that lives on earth which is us. Check out at what rate the only carnivores kill. which by the way is 25% of species. Animals have a role in Nature and we are destroying every single mechanism which we are gonna pay sooner or later. Slavery is the real problem here!!!

Humans are killing everything and you don't want to see my point because you are lazy and it is hard to go against current and reprogram your little brain. I will not convince you of my beliefs but rich people have convinced you of theirs you are just not smart enough to see it coming. Actually the lie is so big that you will never see the truth in your miserable entire life. Admit it they are smarter than you.

Keep eating soy through cows meat like ignorants.

Once bees are gone where is the soy to feed cows is gonna come from? Laboratory? Because that's Monsanto's plan they kill everything that grows naturally so they can sell their lab food. As is Roundup. You'll see one day they will charge for oxygen masks.
 
I respect people who are vegan. And I totally believe that could be you in your avatar. There have been other vegan bodybuilders on this forum in the past.

But 1 thing I wanted to mention, if talking about ethics, is that now I gravitate to getting my meat and produce from sustainable, ethical, organic local farms. It's very easy for people to join a local co-op and get high quality, cruelty-free meat, eggs, and other produce. I am in NYC and there are several to choose from on Long Island or even upstate NY. The consumer needs to be educated, indeed, but in case people think this is too expensive an option - these products are not as expensive as you would think when doing a pickup for a month. You just need a large enough freezer.
 
animani said:
I am very sorry to hear so much ignorance in this forum.

I am not in any way trying to convince anyone of my living style. I am just trying to express we don't need to kill other living beings in order to be healthy.

Animals nowadays are created just for slavery reasons so there are more animals in the world than it would be normally and they are not living free until they die no matter how they die but they lived happily like any animal in the world.

As you ignorants say they will die anyway why you care so much about your life if you gonna die one day. Do you try to enjoy until it comes? Well others too.

So you saying those chickens will be killed in the wild? So So sorry you did not have enough brain to think twice before posting because there are over 150 Billion animals caged and slaughtered every year and thats not Natures Plan thats the worst bacteria plans that lives on earth which is us. Check out at what rate the only carnivores kill. which by the way is 25% of species. Animals have a role in Nature and we are destroying every single mechanism which we are gonna pay sooner or later. Slavery is the real problem here!!!

Humans are killing everything and you don't want to see my point because you are lazy and it is hard to go against current and reprogram your little brain. I will not convince you of my beliefs but rich people have convinced you of theirs you are just not smart enough to see it coming. Actually the lie is so big that you will never see the truth in your miserable entire life. Admit it they are smarter than you.

Keep eating soy through cows meat like ignorants.

Once bees are gone where is the soy to feed cows is gonna come from? Laboratory? Because that's Monsanto's plan they kill everything that grows naturally so they can sell their lab food. As is Roundup. You'll see one day they will charge for oxygen masks.
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This is the issue. People who become vegans do so for highly emotional reasons. Which is fine. Emotions are actually the mechanism that separates us from animals. No other animal will forgo a food source on an emotional basis. So, yes, you are being human.

Anyone who argues that meat is not extremely nutritious is ignoring the facts. I agree that with a bunch of planning and work you may be able to get all of your other nutrients in other ways, but it isn't easy or practical.

I know lots of people who are worth more than $100M, which is what I would consider rich, and not one of them has ever discussed killing animals or eating meat with me. Not sure why you think "rich" people are all for killing animals? This is complete fantasy.

The "Humans are killing everything" and "we are destroying every single mechanism..." statements show the paradox of your beliefs though. You state that humans are not superior to any other animal, and that they should treat other animals equally - but yet you want to believe we are so special that we alter the world and have control over it in a way that isn't realistic. Do you know that if you took every human in the world and stood them 3 feet apart we wouldn't even fill the state of Deleware? We are small on this planet and what we do has little consequence. But your beliefs are structured in such a way that you have to elevate yourself above all other species by saying we are equal to them all? Is this enlightened?

I think many people have this, "I love animals' thing going on because they think it makes them a good person. In reality, they are saying,"am better than you because I love animals and therefore I am a good person and you are not". Not saying that all people do this, but it is extremely common. I've seen people who talk about how much they love animals, go out and do all kinds of crazy things to get attention for their love for animals, and then turn around and hit their dogs.

You obviously have an emotional attachment to animals and show great empathy, which are truly humane traits and great traits to have and develop. We could use more of this. And your point about the treatment of animals that are used for food is sometimes right. We are very detached from our food sources - we don't kill the chicken ourselves. But that doesn't mean that just because the system could use improvement, the outcome is wrong. We send our kids to school and they get bullied, but does that mean we shouldn't educate them?
 
Gutterpump:

The theory is good eating from a sustainable source. The problem with eating meat (as the main protein source on every meal) is that is causing the world to collapse. For instance:

- Rain forests are disappearing due to Agriculture. Most of Agriculture production goes to feeding animals (Soy, Wheat, Corn...). As you might know trees are responsible for removing co2 and providing O2 to our planet.
- The amount of cows produced in the world are the worst of all contributor factors for co2 generation.
- Temperature is rising every year due to co2.
- With Monsanto's pesticides we are killing bees and once they disappear pollination will not be viable anymore.

So there are two points of view hand in hand.

1 Sustainability
2 Animal Rights

I am worried for both. If people want's to go hunting for food there wouldn't be so much destruction. But we have it so easy people are overfed with the most contaminant and the less sustainable option. We are 7 Billion people and rising and everyone wants to eat meat. If we continue to destroy Nature this way it will be game over pretty soon.
At this pace by 2035 we will be eating lab food and and wearing oxygen masks. :( Yeah it sounds like fantasy but global warming and climate disasters already happened. Wait and see.

Hit4me:

About Fantasy...Not sure if you read my post properly but I meant to say Agriculture, Meat Industry, Food industry in general and Pharmaceuticals.

Those are becoming rich destroying our world.

- Agriculture by feeding animals which is just unsustainable.
- Meat industry producing so much animals that they are consuming most of our agriculture and water creating so much waste including co2.
- Food industry including deforestation and animal extinction as orangutans or elephants with Palm Oil which is disguised as vegetable oil most of the times.
- Pharmaceutical are just killing us and harming animals for testing which is useless until you try it on Humans. Even when they don't tell you they are testing on you.

It is just so much to think about that is not as easy as people think. We have to be conscious about it because resources have a limit and we are escalating at a pretty fast pace.

Even if you don't care think twice cause that's just egoism and future people will pay the price of our actions today.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

The system doesn't work because the real focus is money and not sustainability. So things have to change from us consumers that have the real control. If you don't buy they don't produce period.

That's why I was talking about more sustainable protein sources in the first place. I have two reasons that I am concern with but if people don't care about animals they should care about the planet because sooner than later it will be game over.

Then something will be invented to replace our actual natural way. Something not very good for sure. This is not so hard to understand they already modify foods in order to speed up production. They will one day create the stuff right in the lab and I can assure you that diseases will rise. GMO will be all over the place it will actually be the new standard.
 
animani said:
Gutterpump: The theory is good eating from a sustainable source. The problem with eating meat (as the main protein source on every meal) is that is causing the world to collapse. For instance: - Rain forests are disappearing due to Agriculture. Most of Agriculture production goes to feeding animals (Soy, Wheat, Corn...). As you might know trees are responsible for removing co2 and providing O2 to our planet. - The amount of cows produced in the world are the worst of all contributor factors for co2 generation. - Temperature is rising every year due to co2. - With Monsanto's pesticides we are killing bees and once they disappear pollination will not be viable anymore. So there are two points of view hand in hand. 1 Sustainability 2 Animal Rights I am worried for both. If people want's to go hunting for food there wouldn't be so much destruction. But we have it so easy people are overfed with the most contaminant and the less sustainable option. We are 7 Billion people and rising and everyone wants to eat meat. If we continue to destroy Nature this way it will be game over pretty soon. At this pace by 2035 we will be eating lab food and and wearing oxygen masks. :( Yeah it sounds like fantasy but global warming and climate disasters already happened. Wait and see. Hit4me: About Fantasy...Not sure if you read my post properly but I meant to say Agriculture, Meat Industry, Food industry in general and Pharmaceuticals. Those are becoming rich destroying our world. - Agriculture by feeding animals which is just unsustainable. - Meat industry producing so much animals that they are consuming most of our agriculture and water creating so much waste including co2. - Food industry including deforestation and animal extinction as orangutans or elephants with Palm Oil which is disguised as vegetable oil most of the times. - Pharmaceutical are just killing us and harming animals for testing which is useless until you try it on Humans. Even when they don't tell you they are testing on you. It is just so much to think about that is not as easy as people think. We have to be conscious about it because resources have a limit and we are escalating at a pretty fast pace. Even if you don't care think twice cause that's just egoism and future people will pay the price of our actions today. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The system doesn't work because the real focus is money and not sustainability. So things have to change from us consumers that have the real control. If you don't buy they don't produce period. That's why I was talking about more sustainable protein sources in the first place. I have two reasons that I am concern with but if people don't care about animals they should care about the planet because sooner than later it will be game over. Then something will be invented to replace our actual natural way. Something not very good for sure. This is not so hard to understand they already modify foods in order to speed up production. They will one day create the stuff right in the lab and I can assure you that diseases will rise. GMO will be all over the place it will actually be the new standard.
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haha wow, you didn't mention how you kill plants as well to eat them.. Hmmmmm... Hypocrit ? Yes
 
How ignorant mate. Plants don't feel...They don't have central nervous system attached to a brain so please keep those comments away and try to bring something new if you can.
 
I am definitely doing my part in the wold to lower my carbon footprint by not reproducing! The world's largest problem is overpopulation. I have no kids and am happy to keep it that way. Unless a miracle happens, I have no desire to reproduce.

I fully agree that we are heading towards collapse, but there is NOTHING we can individually do about it unless we take away everyone's liberties and freedom. There will always be people who will ruin it for the masses, even if you set a pristine example. The world has gone through collapse in the past, population will fall, and people will learn. "Only when the night is its darkest do the stars shine their brightest."
 
That not reproducing thing is a personal choice, and I would never berate anyone for making that decision. However, I think a lot of times that particular decision works in much the same way as the choice to be vegan, in that it tends to make people judgmental towards those who make the opposite choice. There is one very important difference though, which is this; if everyone chose to be vegan, no problem really. However, if everyone chose to be childless, the human race would be extinct in less than 100 years. Not saying you're like that, just pointing out the implications of each relative position.
 
compudog said:
That not reproducing thing is a personal choice, and I would never berate anyone for making that decision. However, I think a lot of times that particular decision works in much the same way as the choice to be vegan, in that it tends to make people judgmental towards those who make the opposite choice. There is one very important difference though, which is this; if everyone chose to be vegan, no problem really. However, if everyone chose to be childless, the human race would be extinct in less than 100 years. Not saying you're like that, just pointing out the implications of each relative position.
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True, to be totally honest, the thought to have kids has just never crossed my mind for many reasons haha... First and foremost, I have yet to have faith in very long term relationships. I have yet to meet someone whom I think has the mental fortitude to actually mean what they say during their vows, to live through thick and thin and work through the tough times. When I thought I once did, she turned out to be somewhat unstable. I'm not perfect myself, but I've just seen so many failed marriages, people living in misery, etc... I try not to be pessimistic about marriage, but I've almost been married 3 times, and I had to pull away each and every time because of some messed up sh1t. It is truly hard to find an amazing person in all aspects, a strong, loving, giving, caring person is very rare. 80% of the people out there are broken in some way. But... I also just don't really like kids. I like my dogs, they're my kids. I like my brothers' kids, but I don't know, maybe it's just a selfish thing. I have aspirations and drive and kids would really get in the way. I know many women who feel the same, and would have no problem being in a relationship with one, and be a "power couple". I mean I still date and look for love, but it's a very very rare thing, and I hold my standards very high.
 
Gutterpump said:
True, to be totally honest, the thought to have kids has just never crossed my mind for many reasons haha... First and foremost, I have yet to have faith in very long term relationships. I have yet to meet someone whom I think has the mental fortitude to actually mean what they say during their vows, to live through thick and thin and work through the tough times. When I thought I once did, she turned out to be somewhat unstable. I'm not perfect myself, but I've just seen so many failed marriages, people living in misery, etc... I try not to be pessimistic about marriage, but I've almost been married 3 times, and I had to pull away each and every time because of some messed up sh1t. It is truly hard to find an amazing person in all aspects, a strong, loving, giving, caring person is very rare. 80% of the people out there are broken in some way. But... I also just don't really like kids. I like my dogs, they're my kids. I like my brothers' kids, but I don't know, maybe it's just a selfish thing. I have aspirations and drive and kids would really get in the way. I know many women who feel the same, and would have no problem being in a relationship with one, and be a "power couple". I mean I still date and look for love, but it's a very very rare thing, and I hold my standards very high.
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Good on you for sticking to your principles dude. I've had 2 marriages go down in flames and honestly it sucked. I love my kids but from a personal perspective I'd rather not have had the doomed relationships.
 
compudog said:
Good on you for sticking to your principles dude. I've had 2 marriages go down in flames and honestly it sucked. I love my kids but from a personal perspective I'd rather not have had the doomed relationships.
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It's tough. I've had true love in the past, and when things were going down in flames, I tried everything I could (as did she) to try to keep things together. In that case, it was due to mental trauma from her childhood which ended up causing her to have borderline personality disorder, which ended up causing an extreme and irrational fear of loss, resulting in some pretty intense and destructive jealousy. She was the most gorgeous, caring, loving, sweetest. giving person, but was completely unlivable with.... yet I endured for years trying to find a way. Even though we weren't married, those were some very tough times... and I've been through similar at least one other time.
 
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