Article: How To Get Abs
- Thread starter The Press
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Johnston
Active member
I actually did read the rest of it and it's not particularly helpful. It seems to miss the most important aspect, diet. In fact, this article could have consisted of just four words. "GET YOUR DIET RIGHT!" Do all the crunches, knee tucks and planks you want otherwise, won't make any difference. You can get a six pack without ANY of that stuff.
ricroc
Well-known member
Agreed. Given by your avi, you know your stuff in the regard.
JD261985
Banned
Yea I noticed that too lol
JD261985
Banned
Diet n geneticssome ppl will never get those nice 6 or 8 blocks, ha
That's where steroids and other drugs come in haha
Johnston
Active member
I think the genetics excuse is just that. It perhaps applies to 0.01% of people, and anyone who claims it is a thousand times more likely to simply not have their diet/routine in check. 6/8 is definitely harder to achieve than 4 though. And of course for some people it's more easily achieved than others, but it is by no means a genetic impossibility for anywhere near the number of people who claim so.Diet n genetics
Unfortunately I've seen far too many jump on this wagon before they've even bothered to seriously look at their diets/routines. No one NEEDS steroids/drugs (or even supplments) to get a six-pack. Such thinking is utterly absurd, so I can only assume you're joking.
LeeDurr
New member
The article did say "eat clean" even before talking about cardio. It didn't piss away diet completely.
Additionally, it said what to do to "get them to pop once you are already lean.". Therefore it seems to me the point of the article was to help those who already had a diet in check learn how to get abs that are more defined:
For the most verbal critic here, at the risk of possibly coming off as a dick: You are 100% effective at getting the results you currently have, and if that avi is an indicator of current results you deserve the due respect for the clean diet and work it obviously took for you to get that lean, but.....there is definitely room for improvement. Specifically, there is plenty of room for bigger bumps and deeper valleys -- which is ironically exactly what this article is trying to address and gives good advice on.
In summary,
Yes to see your abs. 1) diet is most important. You can live a lifestyle where you never workout and be lean as hell with fully visible abs.
But 2) once you are there, there is always room for improvement....bigger bumps and deeper valleys -- diet won't make your abs grow (other than protein needed to build them) -- it will come from targeted hypertrophy.
Although: the title how to get abs and the wording of the first question are both probably out of place.....answer should have been, you are born with abs, you already have them, you want then to show, eat right and lose the fat currently hiding them you want them to really show even better, include targeted hypertrophy......
Additionally, it said what to do to "get them to pop once you are already lean.". Therefore it seems to me the point of the article was to help those who already had a diet in check learn how to get abs that are more defined:
For the most verbal critic here, at the risk of possibly coming off as a dick: You are 100% effective at getting the results you currently have, and if that avi is an indicator of current results you deserve the due respect for the clean diet and work it obviously took for you to get that lean, but.....there is definitely room for improvement. Specifically, there is plenty of room for bigger bumps and deeper valleys -- which is ironically exactly what this article is trying to address and gives good advice on.
In summary,
Yes to see your abs. 1) diet is most important. You can live a lifestyle where you never workout and be lean as hell with fully visible abs.
But 2) once you are there, there is always room for improvement....bigger bumps and deeper valleys -- diet won't make your abs grow (other than protein needed to build them) -- it will come from targeted hypertrophy.
Although: the title how to get abs and the wording of the first question are both probably out of place.....answer should have been, you are born with abs, you already have them, you want then to show, eat right and lose the fat currently hiding them you want them to really show even better, include targeted hypertrophy......
Johnston
Active member
First off, I by no means set myself up as the model for perfect abs lol. I'll be the first to say I have LOTS of room for improvement, no question. That said, and back to the article, you're right, it does 'mention' diet, but as a throwaway. For us in the know, fair enough, but for someone (and MANY people fall in to this category) who doesn't REALISE how important diet is, there's a good chance this article could mislead them in to thinking they need to focus squarely on ab exercises, which couldn't be more wrong. Targeted ab hypertrophy comes last in the chain of importance, quite a way behind diet (massively), and compound exercises such as squats and deadlifts which do wonders for your core and abs. As you say, the title of article is misleading in itself, as ab exercises don't give you abs... diet does... well, we all have them anyway as you say, but to SEE them it's largely down to diet. That was the point I was making. Targeted exercise can enhance them, but little more.
LeeDurr
New member
Overall: agreed. I felt a little like a dick even when I was writing my reply...but I did think the article had some good points. After re reading it though, it is a valid point that it could seriously mislead those who don't already know where to start.
You laid it out well though: Diet, then compounds, then hypertrophy. Also, making sure you stretch them out (both ways forward and back) helps and working on lower back (i.e. hyper extensions) is critical.
You laid it out well though: Diet, then compounds, then hypertrophy. Also, making sure you stretch them out (both ways forward and back) helps and working on lower back (i.e. hyper extensions) is critical.
Quatie
Member
I stopped when I saw it said men's fitness.
JoeBrooklyn
Well-known member
LOL!!
JoeBrooklyn
Well-known member
My diet is clean and I havent been able to break 10% bf since I hit 38.
Johnston
Active member
Define "clean". That's a VERY arbitrary term.
JoeBrooklyn
Well-known member
No white starches, no pasta, only whole wheat bread, no beef. Lots if veggies. Egg beaters, et al.
Johnston
Active member
Nothing wrong with white rice, big myth there... and if you're not eating pasta, why eat bread? It's the wheat/gluten we're best to stay away from. And no beef?!? If it's well sourced (i.e not grain fed) then it's perfectly fine. You need healthy fats, and saturated fat is an important and necessary part of a 'clean' diet. Just the trans/hydrogenated you want to stay away from. 'Clean' as a term doesn't really mean very much in and of itself though. You have to monitor what you eat, calories/macros. There's simply no other way if you want serious results, unless you are one of those very lucky people who is naturally muscular and lean, with an amazing metabolism and can eat whatever you want.
jbryand101b
Banned
How to get abs: diet right, train hard, sleep, repeat. Simple if you really want them.
JoeBrooklyn
Well-known member
I dont over eat if thats what youre suggesting and the whole wheat bread I eat is one slice of toasted in the morning and two with my chicken at lunch or whole wheat peta bread with my tuna.
If anything sometimes I eat below my 10-15% caloric deficit. Something else is going on. I checked my cortisol and its 13.7. Might that be the problem?
JoeBrooklyn
Well-known member
It used to be that simple when I was 23. Actually, when I was 23 you could skip the diet part. I ate everything and some Nutella chocolate bread spread and I was 8.5% body fat with no cardio. Now, i eat clean, watch my macros, and do cardio and I cant break 10%.
jbryand101b
Banned
We've had this convo before Joe, my pops is 56 and he can do it. Just depends on how bad you want it.
I'm a trainer, and nutrition coach. I have worked with people of all ages. This isn't saying it isn't harder for some. But the equation stays the same.
Diet exercise rest
JoeBrooklyn
Well-known member
I have always believed that but what of the IF diets? (Intermediate Fasting).
JoeBrooklyn
Well-known member
I believe I am doing that. Maybe not at 100% but nothing I am doing is horrible. I dont eat McDonalds, and I dont over eat.
I recently tried a carb fast where I was supposed to carb fast for 3 days and then carb up. I was eating 6 meals a day and was still hungry. I finally gave up after the second day. I had 6 bowls of Fiber One cereal. Someone suggested I take appetite suppressants but i find those to be counter productive because its unnatural and I believe leads to metabolism slow down.
I wish it was as easy as you say. Hell, the guy said white rice is OK!! I wish I could just diet with white rice and get to 8.5%. There is something else at work here that no one knows about.
jbryand101b
Banned
You should see a registered dietician, one that works with athletes like you Joe.
I didn't say it was easy. I said it depends on how bad you want it, really deep down inside. If you can't get there, you may need to talk with someone to find out what's holding you back bro.
Rice isn't okay. Brown, white, whatever color, its all bad.
Veggies are all the carbs you need aside from nutrient timing.
Id never eat rice if I could.
JoeBrooklyn
Well-known member
I actually did see a Dietian. She gave me a diet plan with two schedules, one was a 50% carbs the other was about 45%-40%. And while after 3 weeks I got down to 10.7% from 11.5% its nothing I wasnt able to do by myself in the past. Her diet plan actually had me eating at a 10-15% caloric deficit but in my off days it was too much. I just wasnt that hungry.
A few years ago I went to. The Dominican Republic to get a tooth implant. I had been there once before but at a resort. The heat was so intense that I ate very little. Only some fruit for 3 or 4 days and i swear i must have dropped like 1% body fat. Fasting goes against everything I have been taught. Can it be the answer? Has my metabolism been damaged somehow or slowed down to abnormal levels? I just dont know.
JoeBrooklyn
Well-known member
Protein did not keep me full. I had 6 meals that first day and still went to bed hungry. I actually woke up in the middle of the night to eat some flax seeds like a crack head. I told myself either there is something wrong with me or something is wrong with this diet.
Magdalena
Well-known member
By eating more frequently, every 3 hrs, colored veggies , first 3 meals + protein, dark greens+ protein, last 3 meals, drinking lots of water, it's easy to speed up the metabolism again... Metabolic damage wouldn't occur after just 3 or 4 days... The body adjusts! U have to really want it though...
JoeBrooklyn
Well-known member
I didnt mean that it was damaged during that carb fast. Sorry if I have you that impression. Im 44 now. I started lifting weights when I was 15 and never did cardio or even watched my diet except for trying to eat more to gain weight but even then my diet wasnt bad in the sense that I wasnt eating McDonalds everyday. Im Italian and ate alot of pasta and bread and I use to love Nutella.
At 19, I joined the Army and while I didnt lift a lot, we ran and road marched almost 5 days per week. I ate what the Army fed me.
When I got out At 23 I went back to lifting and no cardio. My diet was back to the normal except I ate more protein. At 31 I got married and stopped lifting and just ate the west Indian food my wife made me. By the time I turned 38 and divorced I was a bit over weight, ofcourse my test levels were lower. My body fat was 17%.
I went on a brief Prohormone stint which was a disaster because I didnt know what I was doing and it shut me down for a couple if months.
I went back to natural and lifted light but had a really strict diet and cardio twice per day five days per week. I went from 17% to 10.6% body fat in 12 weeks but i platoued.
I have never been on such a strict diet again or as much cardio except for recently and I was never able to get below 10% which i achieved recently.
I meant that during my marriage when I didnt diet and train could I have damaged my metabolism?
JoeBrooklyn
Well-known member
Now Im only eating chicken and fish. But i have a cheat meal as a burger or steak.
Johnston
Active member
Is this a joke? I don't know where on earth you got this rubbish from?! And you're a trainer/nutrition coach??! Oh dear.
The eating every 3 hours thing is another myth. There is no evidence this works. If it fits your schedule and you struggle with big meals, fine, there's nothing inherently wrong with it, but there are no clear advantages over 2-3 bigger meals. In fact, in my experience eating every 3 hours is a hassle for most people. I don't know anyone who's done so for convenience. It is 100% unnecessary from a fat loss perspective though.
First off, your metabolism won't be damaged. It's VERY hard to actually do that, and takes long sustained periods of really bad diet choices. Second, a 10-15% calorie deficit won't be enough if you're already at 10% bodyfat. Understand that at this level you will see fat loss at a MUCH lower rate than someone at 20% bf. For a serious cut you want to be at 25-30% calorie deficit on rest days, and maintenance on workout days. Still have to focus on macros though, that's EQUALLY as important as calories, more so even. Do you know your TDEE? Have you accurately worked out before your macro breakdown and stuck to it for a sustained period of time? Your workout routine can be a factor in all this also. Nothing happens overnight either. Well, biologically speaking it does of course, but you won't suddenly wake up looking ripped one day haha! All this said, 10% (if it's a genuine 10%) looks pretty damn good on most guys, as long as you have decent muscle mass, so I'm not sure why you appear to be so unhappy with that... unless what you THINK is 10% is actually closer to 15%.
My suspicion here is that you haven't done this hard enough for long enough. It takes time to see changes, and you can't give up on something after a couple of weeks thinking it's not working. Ultimately though, whatever you go with, you HAVE to be able to live with. It's pointless if whatever plan/routine you choose causes you major headaches and hassle, as it simply won't be sustainable.
For me, personally, Lean Gains (16/8 Intermittent Fasting) is my approach. I suggest you have a read of Martin Berkhan's site at leangains.com, although it's a tricky read with how it's all laid out. There's also a great Reddit page where you can ask questions and see others experiences. Meanwhile, ignore broscience and seek out actual facts. There's SO much misinformation out there, some of which is being spouted in this very thread.
Magdalena
Well-known member
It's different for someone that's been lean all their life, just trying to gain lean muscle, then for someone that's been overweight... Each individual, has to listen n know their body, n find what works for them... Something they can stick to.. A life style.. In the end it's it's about self improvement... If u really want something, nothing should get in ur way... it all starts upstairs..the human mind is a powerful thing...
it all starts upstairs..the human mind is a powerful thing...
jbryand101b
Banned
No it isn't a joke. There is no reason to eat rice, besides being too lazy to find better options.
With that said, my pops would eat plain chicken, veggies, an brown rice at every dinner when preparing/doing shows.
It's a simple carb, cheap, an easy to find.
The minute amount of fiber/nutrients from the husk on brown rice makes it healthier, bit still bad.
If you want cheap carbs go for it.
Better than fruit or candy.
If one wants to become more metabolically efficient, they should focus on controlling blood sugar.
With that said, my pops would eat plain chicken, veggies, an brown rice at every dinner when preparing/doing shows.
It's a simple carb, cheap, an easy to find.
The minute amount of fiber/nutrients from the husk on brown rice makes it healthier, bit still bad.
If you want cheap carbs go for it.
Better than fruit or candy.
If one wants to become more metabolically efficient, they should focus on controlling blood sugar.
Johnston
Active member
The Chinese being amongst the most lazy, short lived, obese and metabolically inefficient populations in the world of course LOL! Sorry, but you really don't know what you're talking about. There's so much wrong with what you've said I don't even know where to start.
You're right in that people need to become more metabolically efficient, but there is no reason rice and simple carbs cannot play a part in this, no reason whatsoever.
jbryand101b
Banned
jbryand101b
Banned
Continue researching, go to school for nutrition for s bit, work with registered dieticians, and keep learning
The things your saying are what people learn from the media, an basic nutrition classes.
Your thoughts on countries that eat rice at every meal are also stereo typed, which you can fix by eating rice and noodles with chop sticks
Johnston
Active member
I'd say quite the opposite... I read many media articles promoting low/no carb diets and generally providing lots of broscience nonsense. And I wouldn't put much stock in basic nutrition classes necessarily, given a friend of mine is on one at the moment and was told that the body can only process 30g of protein at a time!! There's a HUGE amount of misinformation out there, and I only trust my OWN research (which I have done comprehensively) or from sources I irrefutably know to trust. You are quite simply wrong to say that simple carbs have no place in obtaining and maintaining an efficient metabolism, and the ACTUAL science supports this.
I was making what I thought was an obvious joke about China by the way. You weren't meant to take that so seriously.
LeeDurr
New member
Jbry is right; there is no dietary need for carbs. Fats and proteins are both necessary nutrients to the body - if you completely eliminate either you will have serious problems. If you completely eliminate carbs. You will be hungry as hell for a few days, maybe a couple of weeks, may have lethargy and headaches during a transition period while your body switches from inefficient glucose as its primary source to efficient ketones, (protein will still convert to a small amount of glucose, but it will become the secondary back-up fuel it was designed to be for extreme or explosive situations). Its not bro-science. If I YouTube ketosis or ketogenic diets, a plethora of talks by MDs comes up talking about its metabolic advantages, ability to treat metablolic syndromes, increase insulin sensitivity, lower tryglicerides, raise HDL, ability to starve cancer, treat seizures in children, and on and on. Yet you purport IF...I am not bashing IF, but not as much of a medical discussion out there about it as there is a fad/bro discussion. Ironically, I think most of IF advantages/efficacy probably come from often putting one self into Intermittent ketosis.
Carbs can be used as a tool, but they definitely are unnecessary and usually are misused into causing more damage than good. To say they are bad in general would not be a stretch.
Joe, you mentioned you tried it and it sucked so you gave I to cravings quickly. I can definitely understand that, been there myself. But research the hell out of it and hopefully it will motivate you enough to get through the initial hell-period of carb withdrawal (transition to ketosis) which once you are on the other side, you will probably enjoy more energy, more cognitive awareness, and satiety most of the time while you naturally have a suppressed appetite from an advantaged metabolism. During the transition phase though, there are things to help get you through it. Up sodium a bit (Johnston is probably going to think I am joking....but you can verify in your own research) and personally I choose a cheap effective EC stack to help me get through the transition. Also, eat lots of fats ( avoid man-made trans fats, but eat a LOT of natural fats - coconut oil, bacon, eggs, marbled meat, nuts, avocados, etc) especially in the begining, more than protein even. when I first did keto, I did it wrong -- I was trying to live off lean protein. It sucked and I was always hungry. After further research, basically get your body use to using fat as its fuel source vs. Glucose....going from carbs. To protein doesn't solve the glucose problem...you are just eating a less efficient source of glucose, later once you are ketone a efficient, you'll be able to train even harder at which point of you want to grow you obviously up the protein so they can do what they do best vs. Trying to act as a carb substitute.
Hopefully that is at least a springboard to further research that will positively benefit you in your fitness and lifestyles goals.
Carbs can be used as a tool, but they definitely are unnecessary and usually are misused into causing more damage than good. To say they are bad in general would not be a stretch.
Joe, you mentioned you tried it and it sucked so you gave I to cravings quickly. I can definitely understand that, been there myself. But research the hell out of it and hopefully it will motivate you enough to get through the initial hell-period of carb withdrawal (transition to ketosis) which once you are on the other side, you will probably enjoy more energy, more cognitive awareness, and satiety most of the time while you naturally have a suppressed appetite from an advantaged metabolism. During the transition phase though, there are things to help get you through it. Up sodium a bit (Johnston is probably going to think I am joking....but you can verify in your own research) and personally I choose a cheap effective EC stack to help me get through the transition. Also, eat lots of fats ( avoid man-made trans fats, but eat a LOT of natural fats - coconut oil, bacon, eggs, marbled meat, nuts, avocados, etc) especially in the begining, more than protein even. when I first did keto, I did it wrong -- I was trying to live off lean protein. It sucked and I was always hungry. After further research, basically get your body use to using fat as its fuel source vs. Glucose....going from carbs. To protein doesn't solve the glucose problem...you are just eating a less efficient source of glucose, later once you are ketone a efficient, you'll be able to train even harder at which point of you want to grow you obviously up the protein so they can do what they do best vs. Trying to act as a carb substitute.
Hopefully that is at least a springboard to further research that will positively benefit you in your fitness and lifestyles goals.