Article: How Strong Are Bodybuilders?
- Thread starter The Press
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fueledpassion
Well-known member
The point still stands, being a lean 250lbs has more potential than a fat 250lbs.
I don't think anyone disagrees with that though. Personally, I've seen power lifters compare themselves to me in strength, nevermind they're a solid 75-100lbs heavier lol. Lb for lb, a leaner fella will likely be stronger *in general*.
braskibra
Active member
First of all the author describes 4 extremely strong outliers. One of which is a powerlifter by nature.
Kevin levrone grew into the show he was at his strongest during his prep and not eating like an Olsen twin. This is a well know fact that he would take time off during the offseason.
The author also grossly exaggerates the differences between these guys offseason numbers and their precontest numbers.
strength does not act in a linear fashion. The world record for the 123 pound weight class is 1339 pounds total. A 240 pound person will not total 2600 and if they did it would be a world record for all classes.
Additionally bodybuilders get lean once a year. The rest of their offseason most of them are pretty out of shape.
Can being lean be beneficial yes,especially if it allows more cross sectional muscle growth.
Are some bodybuilders extremely strong yes there are a few
Kevin levrone grew into the show he was at his strongest during his prep and not eating like an Olsen twin. This is a well know fact that he would take time off during the offseason.
The author also grossly exaggerates the differences between these guys offseason numbers and their precontest numbers.
strength does not act in a linear fashion. The world record for the 123 pound weight class is 1339 pounds total. A 240 pound person will not total 2600 and if they did it would be a world record for all classes.
Additionally bodybuilders get lean once a year. The rest of their offseason most of them are pretty out of shape.
Can being lean be beneficial yes,especially if it allows more cross sectional muscle growth.
Are some bodybuilders extremely strong yes there are a few
v4lu3s
Member
Seeing as some of those lifts being mentioned were done during "lean" season or immediately pre contest I would mostly agree with the author. Sure powerlifters are ultimately stronger, but when you start looking at lb for lb power, bodybuilders don't stack up bad at all.
Where the bodyweight to strength ratio gets interesting to me though is in the lighter classes of powerlifters, basically anyone under 220. There is where you get guys that look squeezing every last bit of strength out of their mass, and having a bunch of non functional weight in the form of fat hurts them more than it does in classes with no upper weight limit...
Where the bodyweight to strength ratio gets interesting to me though is in the lighter classes of powerlifters, basically anyone under 220. There is where you get guys that look squeezing every last bit of strength out of their mass, and having a bunch of non functional weight in the form of fat hurts them more than it does in classes with no upper weight limit...
fueledpassion
Well-known member
I don't know about the statement about being out of shape. At least at the pro level, I wouldn't say this is the case. They hold water, but any given top tier pro can get show ready conditioning in a matter of 4-6 weeks at any given time of the year. They do so many guest posings that staying lean is mandatory.
Maybe at amateur level this could be true. If by "out of shape" u mean 10-15% heavier and roughly 10-15% BF, then yes, we all get out of shape in the off season. This isn't everyone obviously. I think of that fella Bostin Loyd or whatever his name is - he gets rather chunky in his off season. Genetics I suppose...
Another thing, bodybuilders at the amateur level and newly received pro cards usually do many shows a year - as many as 5 or 6. In those cases, staying lean is a year round situation. For me, I'll be doing only 2 shows next year and between the two I'll stay "lean" (under 8% BF by my standards) for 4 months or so...
However, it is common place to see PL'rs at 20-30% BF when u get to heavy and super heavy weight classes.
I have rarely seen a 250lb powerlifter that was below 20% BF. In fact, the only one I have ever seen at that weight and super lean was a pro bodybuilder that did power lifting in the off season. He was about 260lbs @ 9-10% BF. Not surprisingly, he also held the state record for assisted bench press in three states. I watched him lift 705lbs with a 3-ply.
ishpart
New member
Strong this! You cant take extreme outliers in either class (bb or pl) and compare them to what is superior on average. No doubt it is alot more impressive to get these numbers being leaner but that is because only the elite few can do that. I'm sure for most having a wider base especially for squats not only adds stability for a safer squat but allows for more weight as opposed to being super lean. Would love to se westside reaction when reading this article
JeremyNG25
Active member
Maybe I should post a few pics of Jay cutler in the off season fat as **** looking lone a tub of lard
JeremyNG25
Active member
*like*
JeremyNG25
Active member
Wow reading some of these comments I can't believe that you guys haven't seen pictures of a fat Jay Cutler in the offseason...Mind=blown
heybeavis1
Member
Of course more muscle = more ability for power output because muscle is a contractile tissue, fat isn´t.
But the examples outlined in the text is 4 PRO (and by pro I mean with lots of PED´s year round) bodybuilders. Not saying that powerlifters don´t use PED´s, but not only the types but also the quantity in bodybuilders are outrageous, and that equals to more physical abilities too.
But the examples outlined in the text is 4 PRO (and by pro I mean with lots of PED´s year round) bodybuilders. Not saying that powerlifters don´t use PED´s, but not only the types but also the quantity in bodybuilders are outrageous, and that equals to more physical abilities too.
fueledpassion
Well-known member
I've actually heard it's the other way around with powerlifters. Taking 1-2g/wk of Tren, Dbol and Test concoctions. Not anything unlike pro bodybuilding actually.
In fact, being on year round and blasting and cruising is probably the safer and more responsible way to use PED's rather than cycling on and off several times a year.
But Jay Cutler is one man and let's remember he was in his prime in the previous era, when 300lb behemoths were attractive on stage.
jbryand101b
Banned
Guess if I want to get stronger I should stop keeping my Bf at 12% off cycle.
fueledpassion
Well-known member
Actually about 12.35% is optimal.
liftandeat
Active member
This article sucks.
Yes the pro Bodybuilders could hang in a powerlifting competition but the average joe bodybuilder vs the average joe powerlifter the powerlifter will win almost every time.
And plus I feel like bodybuilders use a lot more gear than powerlifters. Especially the examples this article gives.
Yes the pro Bodybuilders could hang in a powerlifting competition but the average joe bodybuilder vs the average joe powerlifter the powerlifter will win almost every time.
And plus I feel like bodybuilders use a lot more gear than powerlifters. Especially the examples this article gives.
heybeavis1
Member
Reps to this man. Although I don´t see any of the 4 names (MAYBE Coleman), hanging with guys like Misha Koklyaev or Malanichev on a powerlifting meet.
jaces
Active member
Yes this is true ,, but just remember that in all of those eg they didnt use a 1rep max, powerlifters are the kings of the one rep max but anything above 5 and a bodybuilder would push more weight as their muscles are beter at endurance
jbryand101b
Banned
I'd have to look at a few studies to agree to that.
I think 15-20% would be best, could be wrong. Just my experience from training clients (anecdotal)
jbryand101b
Banned
Gay
heybeavis1
Member
Hmmmm, may sound good in theory, but in reality it doesn´t matter. Bodybuilders are pros in working the muscles, stimulating the muscle fibers with the least amount of resistance possible to achieve that (yeah, you already know that, just pointing out as an argument), BUT anything performance related (more weight or more reps) it´s powerlifters territory.
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jaces
Active member
Yes I agree with you just stating. That they work in different rep ranges , I would also say that their form on some exercises also differ
WalkerClark
New member
Agreed. Terrible article, just trying to rustle everyone's Jimmies.
I would add that anyone NOT on steroids will most likely be stronger at a higher % body fat...
Wolverine10x
New member
Stan Efferding focuses on power lifting. Literally his niche. Ronnie Coleman also started as a powerlifter. Of course there are some strong bodybuilders as there are some lean bodybuilders. Why people can't agree that there are positives from power lifting and bodybuilding training and combine them instead of picking a side and playing tug of war is besides me. That being said there are bodybuilders who are weak and there are powerlifters who are lean.
fueledpassion
Well-known member
I said that. And I'm not referring to top tier athletes. I'm referring to what I see regularly in Tennessee. There are outliers and certainly exceptions to the rules but once u get past that 250-275lb mark, more often than not PL's r higher in BF. This is OK though. No one expects them to be ripped at that weight.
Who cares. I'm over this topic. Each has its own unique characteristics. I like them both actually.
braskibra
Active member
Staying on all year around , safer, HA!
jaces
Active member
In terms of side effects(gyno ,acne,muscle los etc) he is correct , but it will kill your hpta system and your wallet
braskibra
Active member
Hpta system HA , people are so short sighted in terms of health.
How bout your heart, I think that thing is kinda important. But hey some people like walking around with high blood pressure year round (known s/e and main reason for bbers premature death)
fueledpassion
Well-known member
I said blast and cruise. Cruise as in TRT or otherwise a physiological even of hormones. Yes, avoiding shutdown and restart 3 times a year is the better option. Stay on for a while, stay OFF for a LONG time (1/2 year to years at a time).
The pendulum swings in hormones completely throws the endocrine system out of whack. If staying on exogenous T is such a bad thing, then explain that to doctors who regularly prescribe TRT to men for decades at a time...
U guys talk from conventional Internet board wisdom, but there isn't a lick of evidence that suggests cycling multiple times a year is "healthier" than just staying on/off exogenous hormones for longer periods of time. I drank that stupid cool aid and now I'm shutdown anyways. I should have just run it straight thru, kept my blood pressure low, did regular cardio, eat healthy and monitored my blood counts. In the end, the "healthiness" might've resulted in the same outcome but I would have had alot more muscle and less fat to show for it.
And as for the blood pressure, addressing that specifically - Cialis. 5mg/day does the trick and gives a boost in confidence in the bed as well. Blood pressure is not a difficult issue to reconcile.
The pendulum swings in hormones completely throws the endocrine system out of whack. If staying on exogenous T is such a bad thing, then explain that to doctors who regularly prescribe TRT to men for decades at a time...
U guys talk from conventional Internet board wisdom, but there isn't a lick of evidence that suggests cycling multiple times a year is "healthier" than just staying on/off exogenous hormones for longer periods of time. I drank that stupid cool aid and now I'm shutdown anyways. I should have just run it straight thru, kept my blood pressure low, did regular cardio, eat healthy and monitored my blood counts. In the end, the "healthiness" might've resulted in the same outcome but I would have had alot more muscle and less fat to show for it.
And as for the blood pressure, addressing that specifically - Cialis. 5mg/day does the trick and gives a boost in confidence in the bed as well. Blood pressure is not a difficult issue to reconcile.
jaces
Active member
It doesnt matter if you cycle or blast and cruise , enlargement of the heart is going to happen , so by blast and cruise you eliminate the need for high dosages , thus it is regarded to be safer for a bodybuilder
jaces
Active member
Agree with you
MongoSS
Member
This article is false in its assertion that bodybuilders are comparable to powerlifters at similar bodyweights. The author chose to cite a few examples that would be considered outliers. Muscle is an important factor in strength, however it is not the only one. Coordination of the central nervous system is extremely important for strength. This is only gained through handling weights at an appreciable percentage of 1RM, usually 80-100%. Here is a sample of just some top lifters in the U.S. Based on current 2014 Rankings (Powerlifting watch.com) All RAW numbers
Best lifts in each class
181 675SQ 468BP 677
198 777SQ 501BP 800DL
220 881SQ 545BP 826DL
242 848SQ 568BP 843DL
275 964SQ 675BP 881DL
This is just a small sampling of this years US rankings, If I were to go with historical and international rankings the numbers would be much higher.
I find humor that everyone always thinks of powerlifters as fat guys, this is completely false. Powerlifting is a sport based on weight classes, as such it benefits lifters under SHW to bring as much lean mass into their weight class as possible. Some notable examples would be: Dan Green, Andrey Belyev, Konstantin Konstantinovs (still has abs over 275lbs), Jesse Norris, Sam Bryd.
Best lifts in each class
181 675SQ 468BP 677
198 777SQ 501BP 800DL
220 881SQ 545BP 826DL
242 848SQ 568BP 843DL
275 964SQ 675BP 881DL
This is just a small sampling of this years US rankings, If I were to go with historical and international rankings the numbers would be much higher.
I find humor that everyone always thinks of powerlifters as fat guys, this is completely false. Powerlifting is a sport based on weight classes, as such it benefits lifters under SHW to bring as much lean mass into their weight class as possible. Some notable examples would be: Dan Green, Andrey Belyev, Konstantin Konstantinovs (still has abs over 275lbs), Jesse Norris, Sam Bryd.