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Article: Guaranteed Muscle Mass

Except volume workouts like this work for guys on juice, where volume workouts are more like cardio for those that are not. My two cents.
 
DirtyWilly said:
Except volume workouts like this work for guys on juice, where volume workouts are more like cardio for those that are not. My two cents.
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Can't necessarily argue with that. I agree to a certain degree . But just eat more. Sounds to simple but seriously. Wanna make up for all cals expended then eat. But I do agree for a natural guy maybe toning down the volume would help. But I do high volume like this , take no hormones, and see results, but I'm super careful on rest periods throughout the week, my diet, and I only hit each muscle once every 5-7 days. High volume is okay but u need to work yourself up to it
 
DirtyWilly said:
Except volume workouts like this work for guys on juice, where volume workouts are more like cardio for those that are not. My two cents.
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Where is the science to support that statement?

High volume stimulates GH. High intensity stimulates testosterone.

Tell me, which of those two hormones actually induce muscle growth?
 
fueledpassion said:
Where is the science to support that statement?

High volume stimulates GH. High intensity stimulates testosterone.

Tell me, which of those two hormones actually induce muscle growth?
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Interesting you put it that way because GH promotes size and zero strength, while testosterone is proven to increase force strength. It's the synergism between GH and test that creates mass which is typically only seen on someone using AAS. Not being rude, but the question almost answers itself, kinda confirms a lot of studies in a simplistic way.
 
DirtyWilly said:
Interesting you put it that way because GH promotes size and zero strength, while testosterone is proven to increase force strength. It's the synergism between GH and test that creates mass which is typically only seen on someone using AAS. Not being rude, but the question almost answers itself, kinda confirms a lot of studies in a simplistic way.
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Well, size can be had without the presence of notable strength gains. Amino acids from protein get better utilization in muscles via bloodflow. Blood flow creates fascial stretching. High volume work that taxes the glycolytic system increases GH output which in turn increases local IGF -> which is the hormone responsible for hypertrophy.

If testosterone were such a key part in growth, women might as well stop lifting weights. All the sex hormone does is slow down proteolysis, or the breakdown of muscle protein. In a natty state, that can be worked around via more high quality protein and leucine supplementation around the clock.

Anyways, both is better than one or the other (which is why I do both) but high rep work and lots of food has worked better for me in both the natty and juiced state. Strength training is nice but I feel it does more for athleticism than anything else.
 
?Guys juiced to the gills went from 114 to 280 pounds lol. If I were a natty reading this (which I am) I wouldn't try this method until you're on some sort of gear. All types of training works for people on gear but that does NOT apply for naturals
 
This actually looks like a pretty solid high volume program. Start with something heavy, pound some volume, get outta there. Juice wouldnt hurt, but im natty and think this looks peachy to me. Yeah, peachy
 
fuseven said:
This actually looks like a pretty solid high volume program. Start with something heavy, pound some volume, get outta there. Juice wouldnt hurt, but im natty and think this looks peachy to me. Yeah, peachy
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Yea I think it would be good on a bulk/lean bulk or a cut on an anabolic/s.
 
U guys have been drinkin too much of the forum sauce.

There is an incredible amount of science to support the concept of high volume training. It does NOT mean light weight. It means heavy weight AND grinding out volume. It means hitting 80% of ur 1RM @ 15-20 reps, for several sets.

Yeah, it's hard. It sounds impossible. It's also why most guys on juice do it, because they can. It's doable natty, but It takes a LONG time to build that sort of stamina.
 
fueledpassion said:
Well, size can be had without the presence of notable strength gains. Amino acids from protein get better utilization in muscles via bloodflow. Blood flow creates fascial stretching. High volume work that taxes the glycolytic system increases GH output which in turn increases local IGF -> which is the hormone responsible for hypertrophy. If testosterone were such a key part in growth, women might as well stop lifting weights. All the sex hormone does is slow down proteolysis, or the breakdown of muscle protein. In a natty state, that can be worked around via more high quality protein and leucine supplementation around the clock. Anyways, both is better than one or the other (which is why I do both) but high rep work and lots of food has worked better for me in both the natty and juiced state. Strength training is nice but I feel it does more for athleticism than anything else.
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You don't think testosterone increases muscle size ? And it's clear and obvious that girls have a tougher time building as much muscle..doesn't mean they should stop all together. GH stimulates growth sure but so does testosterone and there's about ten million studies out there that will show it. Don't take GH and take just test any type and see whT happens lol. Youll grow I promise. I think you know a lot about what your talking about ... But I also think your getting confused . Test and high test will result in larger muscles even in natural guys. take a man and a woman with the same GH levels.. And see who build more muscle... The guy. Why? Well I think we all should know lol TESTOSTERONE
 
Indirectly it does by reducing protein turnover and increasing anabolism. But it doesn't actually cause hypertrophy. It cant. It doesnt. The signal that hormone carries is not "proliferate muscle".

I'm really not trying to get into this debate but let's just try to agree at least that without the presence of GH and plenty of food, the body won't grow.

Testosterone matters but certainly not as much as natty guys prop it up to be. Exogenous Test causes a rise in GH. That's where the growth comes from. So I don't know how that supports the argument for Test causing growth. The body is a complicated mechanism and when u increase one, the other hormones will be affected.
 
If testosterone didn't matter guys wouldn't use it lol. I've seen guys with lower T get on TRT and build muscleand burn fat without training. How do you explain that one? Idc if ppl say that can't happen because I've seen it. It does happen. Also getting your test into supraphysiological levels and combining that with other AAS, GH, etc is going to have an unbelievable effect on muscle mass. How can one say it doesn't?
 
U miss the point. The topic is about high versus low reps. I'll say it one more time and then I'm done. Injecting exogenous Testosterone above physiological ranges will cause the body to increase its GH output along with estrogen, dopamine, a suppression of T3, etc etc.

The growth that u see from Test is from the secondary response of the endocrine system increasing its GH and paracrine IGF-1.

So for the sake of natty lifters, to gain mass, it'd be smart of them to include a large portion of GH maximizing routines alongside their strength conditioning for max gains. Understand that strength training really only increases test marginally - it won't do things outside the physiological range unless u r taking a SERM with the training protocol. Then again that isnt a natty apprpach.That said...

You will not get as big or muscular doing sets of 1-5 reps alone as u would doing a combination of all rep ranges from 1 - 50 reps per set. So telling a board full of "strength trainers" to lay off the low rep work and move to high rep training for growth will serve them well.

How many of u have taken exogenous test before? Do u even know?
 
JeremyNG25 said:
If testosterone didn't matter guys wouldn't use it lol. I've seen guys with lower T get on TRT and build muscleand burn fat without training. How do you explain that one? Idc if ppl say that can't happen because I've seen it. It does happen. Also getting your test into supraphysiological levels and combining that with other AAS, GH, etc is going to have an unbelievable effect on muscle mass. How can one say it doesn't?
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Didn't read my earlier post carefully. So read the previous one( that I just made ) more carefully please. Someone derailed the point I was making and forgot that we're talking in regards to training protocols for max muscle growth. So please read.
 
Any natty guys ever do up to a set of 50 for squat for a couple weeks? Heard some talk of it being good for breaking pleatues but I'm afraid of wasting my time and end up just lifting weights as cardio. Or that DTP training? Which sounds like a good plan if your on a cycle. Just wanted to get some opinions on extreme high rep lifting for natty. I don't think I have ever gone over 12 reps on anything, minus some body weight stuff. I just realized that in 17 yrs I've honestly never gone over 12 reps while lifting geez.
 
fueledpassion said:
U miss the point. The topic is about high versus low reps. I'll say it one more time and then I'm done. Injecting exogenous Testosterone above physiological ranges will cause the body to increase its GH output along with estrogen, dopamine, a suppression of T3, etc etc. The growth that u see from Test is from the secondary response of the endocrine system increasing its GH and paracrine IGF-1. So for the sake of natty lifters, to gain mass, it'd be smart of them to include a large portion of GH maximizing routines alongside their strength conditioning for max gains. Understand that strength training really only increases test marginally - it won't do things outside the physiological range unless u r taking a SERM with the training protocol. Then again that isnt a natty apprpach.That said... You will not get as big or muscular doing sets of 1-5 reps alone as u would doing a combination of all rep ranges from 1 - 50 reps per set. So telling a board full of "strength trainers" to lay off the low rep work and move to high rep training for growth will serve them well. How many of u have taken exogenous test before? Do u even know?
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I get what your saying now lol don't worry
 
max d said:
Any natty guys ever do up to a set of 50 for squat for a couple weeks? Heard some talk of it being good for breaking pleatues but I'm afraid of wasting my time and end up just lifting weights as cardio. Or that DTP training? Which sounds like a good plan if your on a cycle. Just wanted to get some opinions on extreme high rep lifting for natty. I don't think I have ever gone over 12 reps on anything, minus some body weight stuff. I just realized that in 17 yrs I've honestly never gone over 12 reps while lifting geez.
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Use a super high rep set or two after your foundational squatting. I've done 40 rep sets of squat AFTER my heavier work, and the relative intensity is tremendous. That's going to cause a GH response, a fantastic pump, and increase GPP. All of which are going to either directly or indirectly promote increasing muscle mass over time. I wouldn't do it alone, but as a finisher or extra volume it can be tremendous. Go lighter than you think you'll need your first time trying it so form doesn't get to sloppy.
 
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