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Article: Do You Smith?

I know a dude who's yoked as **** and only ever uses smith machines.

His max smith bench is 425

Max regular bench.... 325.

So hey if hypertrophy and the look is your goal smith is beast. For functional weight room strength? No definitely not
 
"what’s the difference in 405 pounds on a free barbell and 405 pounds on a Smith Machine barbell. Nothing. They weigh the same. The only difference is the mechanics."

False. More stabalizers are required for free weight squats than on the Smith Machine. Same with bench, OHP, upright rows, shrugs, etc. That's why you can do more weight on the Smith vs. free weights. Nevermind the tendon and ligament strengthening capabilities free weights provide and the Smith doesn't. I like the Smith machine for some exercises for strength and hypertrophy stuff, but to claim there is no difference between the 2 is just preposterous. A guy who can squat 405 only on a Smith machine will have a hell of a time squating 405 free weight.
 
I wouldn't say it's useless, or needs to die a firey death. It isn't completely useless though. It can serve hypertrophy and strength purposes, you just need to know what and how to program your workout to do so.
 
I used the smith machine in my younger 20s a lot for squats. It took pressure off my knees because I could put my feet more forward, being 6'1" with long legs I would have to go to a pretty acute angle to actually go below parallel. I could also put my feet wider than I could for free weight squats, this allowed me to target my glutes and outer quads (vastus lateralis) more. The smith is a great alternative for anyone that has injuries which makes squats painful or dangerous. I don't see many exercises as being pointless.

Also mountainmans posts above are spot on
 
I use the smith for my beginner clients as a stepping stone in order to teach proper form an technique.

But once you're able to do squats, pull ups, push ups, shoulder press, etc right. It is left behind.

A crutch isn't meant to be used forever.
 
jbryand101b said:
I use the smith for my beginner clients as a stepping stone in order to teach proper form an technique.

But once you're able to do squats, pull ups, push ups, shoulder press, etc right. It is left behind.

A crutch isn't meant to be used forever.
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Why does it need to be a crutch though? I have a home gym so I don't have access to a lot of equipment, or a spotter, ever. My Smith machine has not only helped me stay safe on heavy lifts, it's helped me add strength AND size, because I use it as a tool for my goals, not a crutch. It's certainly not a substitute for solid and proper free weight work, but it is a great accessory from a fitness standpoint.
 
Devildog_ said:
I know a dude who's yoked as **** and only ever uses smith machines. His max smith bench is 425 Max regular bench.... 325. So hey if hypertrophy and the look is your goal smith is beast. For functional weight room strength? No definitely not
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Great, he will have hypertrophy that he would have gotten as easily with free weights, but his joints will all be anialated from using the smith machine
 
bechsgaard said:
Great, he will have hypertrophy that he would have gotten as easily with free weights, but his joints will all be anialated from using the smith machine
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The Smith machine does have a reputation for injury, but only at heavy weights, and by people who are very incorrectly performing the intended exercises. It has been my experience as a trainer that the injuries occur over time, with accumulated poor use/technique This may make people butt hurt, but they in a way may have deserved that injury for being so ignorant, and doing it so wrong for so long.
 
mountainman33 said:
Why does it need to be a crutch though? I have a home gym so I don't have access to a lot of equipment, or a spotter, ever. My Smith machine has not only helped me stay safe on heavy lifts, it's helped me add strength AND size, because I use it as a tool for my goals, not a crutch. It's certainly not a substitute for solid and proper free weight work, but it is a great accessory from a fitness standpoint.
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Working out at home shouldn't be compared to a full commercial gym.

More like prison workout areas. Cause you have to do what you can, unless you are a baller.
 
I was thinking the person that wrote this article was just a moron until he ended it with a mention of curling in the rack and now I know he is a moron.
 
jbryand101b said:
Working out at home shouldn't be compared to a full commercial gym.
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Why not? I'm seeing the same results from my training as people do in commercial gyms, and maybe even better results since I don't get distracted like a lot of people do in commercial gyms.
 
jbryand101b isn't the most eloquent guy, but I think he is just saying that you are working and getting the most out of what you have, but if you were in a commercial gym with more equipment, you may be getting more out of your routine. You would also not have to rely on the smith machine and have access to racks.

Not to say you aren't smoking people lifting at the gym, just that you may be capable of more personally.
 
kisaj said:
jbryand101b isn't the most eloquent guy, but I think he is just saying that you are working and getting the most out of what you have, but if you were in a commercial gym with more equipment, you may be getting more out of your routine. You would also not have to rely on the smith machine and have access to racks.

Not to say you aren't smoking people lifting at the gym, just that you may be capable of more personally.
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Roger that.
 
Free weights are far superior though the smith can have a place in a program. I use it from time to time to do heavy stop bench presses.
 
I tried smith bar curls. People laughed at me, so I started feeling a little awkward and nervous. Nervous enough to get the farts. I'd eaten some hearty lentil soup the night before. Delicious stuff.. Next thing I know, I'm forever barred from that gym because of my horrific farts.

**** you, smith machine! **** you!
 
mountainman33 said:
Why not? I'm seeing the same results from my training as people do in commercial gyms, and maybe even better results since I don't get distracted like a lot of people do in commercial gyms.
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So you have access to ALL the EXACT same equipment in your home gym as a commercial gym?

You must be rich
 
kisaj said:
jbryand101b isn't the most eloquent guy, but I think he is just saying that you are working and getting the most out of what you have, but if you were in a commercial gym with more equipment, you may be getting more out of your routine. You would also not have to rely on the smith machine and have access to racks.

Not to say you aren't smoking people lifting at the gym, just that you may be capable of more personally.
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Yep
 
jbryand101b said:
So you have access to ALL the EXACT same equipment in your home gym as a commercial gym?

You must be rich
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I'm just more focused, and better at exercise improvisation. Unfortunately being rich isn't the problem. But to give you an idea:

Invalid Link Removed
 
bechsgaard said:
Unless you use a very small ROM, the fixed straight plane heavily impinges your joints, particularly seen with compound movements, but isolations as well
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I have to disagree. I have used the smith for movements like wide squats and incline close grip presses to save my joints, particularly knees and elbows. They would hurt doing free weights and not on the smith. U don't have to stabilize the weight, u just press it in plain with the movement of the bar. I don't do any isolation movements on the smith, that just sounds dumb.
 
I think if you're doing bench press and are going to beyond failure the smith can be a great tool because once you go to failure you can finish with a negative then rack it before it kills you. You can also do strict negatives with a much greater overload than what you can lift on the concentric portion and then save yourself. I only use smith for some HIT exercises and drag curls that's it
 
hurdlemaker said:
I have to disagree. I have used the smith for movements like wide squats and incline close grip presses to save my joints, particularly knees and elbows. They would hurt doing free weights and not on the smith. U don't have to stabilize the weight, u just press it in plain with the movement of the bar. I don't do any isolation movements on the smith, that just sounds dumb.
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Smith also works great for reverse grip bench press and behind the back shrugs. Forgot about those exercises
 
Interesting that almost everyone here dogging on the smith machine weights 180lbs, lmao. We'd better listen to these guys!!!! Hahaha
 
mountainman33 said:
I'm just more focused, and better at exercise improvisation. Unfortunately being rich isn't the problem. But to give you an idea:

<img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=100397"/>
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That's why its more comparable to a prison workout area than a commercial gym. You have to get creative and improvise.
Now full circle about what was said earlier.
 
jbryand101b said:
Yes, because how much you weigh has everything to do with how knowledgeable you are, and how relatively strong you are.
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When you can curl more than the 30lb dbs come talk to me sport. Let me add that I look at people results as a testament to how knowledgable they are, not how often they can post on a message board, granted some people can be knowledgable and not look the part, but I'm not a fan of those people. Any glorified trainer that can only do 20lb side lateral raises is wearing clown shoes, even if ur 160lbs. I'll rep out 55lb side raises for sets of 12 now. I train a guy 165lbs that is benching 315 for reps. I base someone's credibility on their real world results. Saying the smith machine is only good for a crutch is ignorance.
 
hurdlemaker said:
I have to disagree. I have used the smith for movements like wide squats and incline close grip presses to save my joints, particularly knees and elbows. They would hurt doing free weights and not on the smith. U don't have to stabilize the weight, u just press it in plain with the movement of the bar. I don't do any isolation movements on the smith, that just sounds dumb.
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You can't just disagree, this is basic kinetics, if the free weight is hurting you it's because you have serious muscle imbalances or bad form, not because of increased joint im pigment, kinesiologists have been speaking out against the machines for years, one meathead saying his joints hurt more on free weights, and therefore all the scientists are wrong is beyond stupid.
 
bechsgaard said:
if the free weight is hurting you it's because you have serious muscle imbalances or bad form.
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I have patellar tendonitis, at one point it was so bad I almost needed metal wire inserted INTO my knees. Squatting with a free weight barbell tends to hurt my knees. I know many people with the same problem. Does that mean I have an imbalance? No. Does my form suck? No. Free weight upright rows are shown to increase shoulder imingement, whereas Smith machine upright rows have been shown to alleviate that impingement. You can't generalize in such a manner.

The Smith machine has pros and cons. We could debate this all year if we wanted to.
 
bechsgaard said:
You can't just disagree, this is basic kinetics, if the free weight is hurting you it's because you have serious muscle imbalances or bad form, not because of increased joint im pigment, kinesiologists have been speaking out against the machines for years, one meathead saying his joints hurt more on free weights, and therefore all the scientists are wrong is beyond stupid.
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meathead haha, haven't been called that in a while. I'm sorry you have the physique of an in shape 16yr old. My forms pretty solid, I don't lift with my ego, but in the past when I have had injuries and using the smith machine was a faster route to getting them healed up than free weights. Say u have a shoulder injury and presses are bothering you and you are working chest and triceps, you can use the smith and because you have to focus less on stabilizing you can focus on using your chest and triceps to do the work. Or maybe you don't have the capabilities for that kind of mind to muscle connection? Not everyone does. In the same regard you can use the smith machine to focus on areas that are lagging. I throw in some work on the smith machine from time to time still. There's plenty of literature to dispute your scientists bud. Here's just one.

Invalid Link Removed

"Safety. Provided your form and body alignment is dialed in, the Smith machine is not as taxing as regular free weight movement on your joints."

I am in no way saying to always use the smith machine, but trying to discredit it so when in reality it can be a very useful tool is dumb. And people that ego lift on a smith machine will most likely hurt themselves. They will press too hard in what is probably and unnatural motion with improper form and injure themselves.
 
bechsgaard said:
Haha, yes because curl weight is definately a quantifier of strength. This guy lmao
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name any lift you want to discuss regarding strength. I most likely can do what you and jbryan do put together. I was referring to jbryan's latest lifts in his log since you obviously didn't understand my post. Which don't get me wrong, jbryan seems like an ok guy, but just trying to act like u know everything when ur lifting what I was in highschool makes credibility go down IMO when talking about training
 
I'm not picking sides, but articles from T-Nation do not count as (scientific) literature. Even if they occasionally cite scientific studies.

T-Nation... Peer reviewed by certified bros.
 
Type O Hero said:
I'm not picking sides, but articles from T-Nation do not count as (scientific) literature. Even if they occasionally cite scientific studies. T-Nation... Peer reviewed by certified bros.
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hahaha I was kinda chuckling as I tagged that, but didn't wanna spend more time searching and it came up first
 
hurdlemaker said:
name any lift you want to discuss regarding strength. I most likely can do what you and jbryan do put together. I was referring to jbryan's latest lifts in his log since you obviously didn't understand my post. Which don't get me wrong, jbryan seems like an ok guy, but just trying to act like u know everything when ur lifting what I was in highschool makes credibility go down IMO when talking about training
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No it doesn't. I don't try to lift heavy. I train for what works best for me.
I have no problem making guys stronger than I.
This by no means has anything to do with knowledge.

I watch big ass dudes lift heavy shiit all day, and 90% do something incorrect.

Everyone I train do their lifts with perfect form, and get strong.

Any idiot can pick up a dumbbell, lift weight, and get big or strong. Same thing for aas use.
An idiot can use steroids an get bigger an stronger.

Neither means you know what your doing.

Pick your favorite coach, and tell him he doesn't know what he's doing because he can't do what his athletes do.
 
I like the smith machine, Who cares what other phaggots think about it. Nothing worse then a guy who's worried about what other people ar doing in the gym. I'll keep using the smith machine when I want.
 
hurdlemaker said:
When you can curl more than the 30lb dbs come talk to me sport. Let me add that I look at people results as a testament to how knowledgable they are, not how often they can post on a message board, granted some people can be knowledgable and not look the part, but I'm not a fan of those people. Any glorified trainer that can only do 20lb side lateral raises is wearing clown shoes, even if ur 160lbs. I'll rep out 55lb side raises for sets of 12 now. I train a guy 165lbs that is benching 315 for reps. I base someone's credibility on their real world results. Saying the smith machine is only good for a crutch is ignorance.
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I've never seen any one rep out of straight arm lateral raises for 55 lbs with proper form an technique.
I had a boss that was claimed to do concentration curls with the 100lb dumbbells though, so it could be possible.

Def be interesting to see. Could you post a video of those 55lb perfect form/technique lateral raises?
 
jbryand101b said:
I've never seen any one rep out of straight arm lateral raises for 55 lbs. I had a boss that was claimed to do concentration curls with the 100lb dumbbells though, so it could be possible. Def be interesting to see. Could you post a video of those 55lb perfect form/technique lateral raises?
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sure, I would have to ask a random person in the gym to video me though as I lift alone, but I can if you'd like. The American gladiator I used to train with would do all his sets with 50s and pause at the top for every rep and this was 7 years after he had stopped competing in bodybuilding or taking AAS. I used to think it was insane, now I can do a little more than that. I've military pressed 315 twice before, my delts are pretty strong. Concentration curls with the 100s sounds a little silly tho, unless ur boss was a monster. I can do strict form for alternating db curls with the 70s for 6 reps, a couple more on good days. I train for looks, but after 14 years or so of training hard and dieting semi-correctly I've managed to get decently strong. Idk who lifts 5-6 days a week and doesn't want to get stronger? I know Mystere3 that posts on here lifts more than I do for upper body if you check out some of his logs.
 
hurdlemaker said:
sure, I would have to ask a random person in the gym to video me though as I lift alone, but I can if you'd like. The American gladiator I used to train with would do all his sets with 50s and pause at the top for every rep and this was 7 years after he had stopped competing in bodybuilding or taking AAS. I used to think it was insane, now I can do a little more than that. I've military pressed 315 twice before, my delts are pretty strong. Concentration curls with the 100s sounds a little silly tho, unless ur boss was a monster. I can do strict form for alternating db curls with the 70s for 6 reps, a couple more on good days. I train for looks, but after 14 years or so of training hard and dieting semi-correctly I've managed to get decently strong. Idk who lifts 5-6 days a week and doesn't want to get stronger? I know Mystere3 that posts on here lifts more than I do for upper body if you check out some of his logs.
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Yea, if you would it'd be cool and I'd appreciate it.

And yea, my old boss was a monster with way too much energy.

I'll post up a video of my weenie 20lb lat raises and maybe you can critique them for me.
 
hurdlemaker said:
meathead haha, haven't been called that in a while. I'm sorry you have the physique of an in shape 16yr old. My forms pretty solid, I don't lift with my ego, but in the past when I have had injuries and using the smith machine was a faster route to getting them healed up than free weights. Say u have a shoulder injury and presses are bothering you and you are working chest and triceps, you can use the smith and because you have to focus less on stabilizing you can focus on using your chest and triceps to do the work. Or maybe you don't have the capabilities for that kind of mind to muscle connection? Not everyone does. In the same regard you can use the smith machine to focus on areas that are lagging. I throw in some work on the smith machine from time to time still. There's plenty of literature to dispute your scientists bud. Here's just one. Invalid Link Removed "Safety. Provided your form and body alignment is dialed in, the Smith machine is not as taxing as regular free weight movement on your joints." I am in no way saying to always use the smith machine, but trying to discredit it so when in reality it can be a very useful tool is dumb. And people that ego lift on a smith machine will most likely hurt themselves. They will press too hard in what is probably and unnatural motion with improper form and injure themselves.
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I'm 17, and post surgery, I'm pretty happy with my physique considering the circumstances.
 
bechsgaard said:
I'm 17, and post surgery, I'm pretty happy with my physique considering the circumstances.
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ur 18 in all ur other posts....which is it? And how hard was the recovery from that sex change operation? Do you still think you made the right life choice??
 
hurdlemaker said:
ur 18 in all ur other posts....which is it? And how hard was the recovery from that sex change operation? Do you still think you made the right life choice??
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Shoulder surgery jackass, it's pathetic that you have so few intelligent arguments that you have to use pointless insults to make your mark
 
bechsgaard said:
Shoulder surgery jackass, it's pathetic that you have so few intelligent arguments that you have to use pointless insults to make your mark
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haha, I'm not the one name calling, take a joke kid, it's called humor and if you're that easily insulted this probably isn't the forum for you. You've already been flamed in multiple threads. Whether you're 17 or 18 you're very young, why don't you try reading more and posting less, learn a little instead of trying to pretend to have so much knowledge and world experience. Forget about peptides and AAS. Spend a few years learning how to build a good physique before you worry about exogenous hormones. If you didn't come off as such a jacka$$ I might've gone over your blood work with you, but bottom line stick to natural supplements for a while.
 
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