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Article: 3 Reasons Your Calves Aren’t Growing

I have made my calves a priority this past year and have seen a good amount of progress in their size. One thing that I changed was my ROM. Before I was just trying to push the most amount of weight they could take but after changing it up and focusing on the movement rather than the weight that's when the little guys started to grow.
 
McCrew530 said:
I have made my calves a priority this past year and have seen a good amount of progress in their size. One thing that I changed was my ROM. Before I was just trying to push the most amount of weight they could take but after changing it up and focusing on the movement rather than the weight that's when the little guys started to grow.
Click to expand...

Yep exactly what the game changer for my calves was..form and isolation vs weight
 
We need to ban members that discourage natty folks from doing anything productive. Both natural and unnatural athletes ought to be doing much of the same things, if not just slight adjustments to the routine itself. Diet of course should be identical as well as the exercises.

Enough with the steroid comments. Uneducated responses like this bring to light that you've not actually learned how to be successful in a natty state and it also underscores that you've never experienced unnatural cycles and gains either. So much of these comments are simply false on so many levels.
 
fueledpassion said:
We need to ban members that discourage natty folks from doing anything productive. Both natural and unnatural athletes ought to be doing much of the same things, if not just slight adjustments to the routine itself. Diet of course should be identical as well as the exercises.

Enough with the steroid comments. Uneducated responses like this bring to light that you've not actually learned how to be successful in a natty state and it also underscores that you've never experienced unnatural cycles and gains either. So much of these comments are simply false on so many levels.
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Thank you.. It should be like this. Hell I waited five years to touch anything anabolic and guess what I looked better then a lot if the peo people running hear bc they didnt know what they were doing.

My mentality was to always train like I was on gear... Even though I wasn't and it seemed to work well.
 
I have focused on my calves as well and have gotten tremendous results. The main reason I changed my calf routine was from what Arnold learned from Reg Park. To make it easier for those that haven't read it, think of it this way. I'm 245 lbs. Everyday my calves lift that weight with every step, every single step. That being said I will work my way up to around 500 pounds. If your calves can easily help you walk without any thought, they can handle a ridiculous amount of weight in training. This is why I beat the living hell out of mine a couple times a week.
 
Only thing I got was good news.

All this time I've been comparing calf size to my thighs.

Arms an neck? That makes me feel much better about my calves.

Or maybe I just need bigger arms now too?

Hmmm...... :smoker:
 
I always work calves first on leg day. Calves then Hams then squats or whatever you gonna do... any bodybuilder who's been focusing on squatting heavy and not prioritizing weak or lagging bodyparts should if they want symmetrical legs. I would use a Donkey calf raise machine. Used to do 700 lbs stack and have my 200lbs buddy sit on machine and add plates to the rack... 1000lbs for 20 reps... I suppose my Asian and Polynesian DNA may help that...
 
fueledpassion said:
We need to ban members that discourage natty folks from doing anything productive. Both natural and unnatural athletes ought to be doing much of the same things, if not just slight adjustments to the routine itself. Diet of course should be identical as well as the exercises.

Enough with the steroid comments. Uneducated responses like this bring to light that you've not actually learned how to be successful in a natty state and it also underscores that you've never experienced unnatural cycles and gains either. So much of these comments are simply false on so many levels.
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Man, so dead on.

I've built my calves from 15 to 18 inches over the years with continued hard work and ~gasp~ no steroids or PH. Calves need to be destroyed to the point that most people aren't willing to do or simply give up because it isn't happening fast enough.
 
fueledpassion said:
We need to ban members that discourage natty folks from doing anything productive. Both natural and unnatural athletes ought to be doing much of the same things, if not just slight adjustments to the routine itself. Diet of course should be identical as well as the exercises.

Enough with the steroid comments. Uneducated responses like this bring to light that you've not actually learned how to be successful in a natty state and it also underscores that you've never experienced unnatural cycles and gains either. So much of these comments are simply false on so many levels.
Click to expand...

You're an idiot if you think training on steroids is no different than training while not taking steroids.
 
Type O Hero said:
You're an idiot if you think training on steroids is no different than training while not taking steroids.
Click to expand...

I dont think he was saying it was no different. I believe he was just trying to say regardless of being natural or unnatural you should have your diet and training on point.
 
Type O Hero said:
You're an idiot if you think training on steroids is no different than training while not taking steroids.
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No, I'm not an idiot. Slow down ur reading and pay closer attention next time before lashing out.

I said the training and diet are not to be different, or should be very little change, perhaps frequency being the biggest change.

The results are different, but honestly, unless you cycle often and for long periods of time, the results are fairly nominal on steroids in many cases. I've seen many, many guys on harsh cycles that didn't eat enough and didn't train with intensity and their results were less than stellar.

In fact, I know MORE enhanced people that fall into this category than those that do it right and get stellar results from steroids.

I guess what I dont like seeing on this forum lately is a bunch of people playing steroid-use as a crutch to never expect much out of yourself in a natty state. You do yourself the biggest disservice in believing that the rules should be different for the two. Biology of a steroid user is the same as a natty user, they both have all the same metabolic functions taking place, only one has a stronger response than the other, bringing about more results and quicker than the natty guys. Ultimately, that natty muscle needs the same stimulus and food as the steroid user to get results. The difference is the results, not the method.
 
fueledpassion said:
No, I'm not an idiot. Slow down ur reading and pay closer attention next time before lashing out.

I said the training and diet are not to be different, or should be very little change, perhaps frequency being the biggest change.

The results are different, but honestly, unless you cycle often and for long periods of time, the results are fairly nominal on steroids in many cases. I've seen many, many guys on harsh cycles that didn't eat enough and didn't train with intensity and their results were less than stellar.

In fact, I know MORE enhanced people that fall into this category than those that do it right and get stellar results from steroids.

I guess what I dont like seeing on this forum lately is a bunch of people playing steroid-use as a crutch to never expect much out of yourself in a natty state. You do yourself the biggest disservice in believing that the rules should be different for the two. Biology of a steroid user is the same as a natty user, they both have all the same metabolic functions taking place, only one has a stronger response than the other, bringing about more results and quicker than the natty guys. Ultimately, that natty muscle needs the same stimulus and food as the steroid user to get results. The difference is the results, not the method.
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Couldn't have said it better myself
 
Actually there's a huge difference between training natty and training enhanced... not just frequency... guys who have actual experience with PED'S would know. Your volume and intensity are completely different. Your body is able to processes a whole lot more nutrients especially protein. Your diet should be different as well... you guys think it's the same don't know squat...
 
If you workout like an enhanced athlete when you're not you will NEVER make gains... it's not the same at all
 
Yolked, I don't know if you have ever done PED'S but my volume is much much lower 6 years into training than it was when I started. Mind muscle connection isn't a myth, it actually exists. I do far less volume but with much higher intensity than I used to do when I wasn't taking PED's.

Dorian Yates has a similar story as well.

Frequency is all that changes for me because recovery happens so quickly. That's it. Any regular gym goer should easily be able to complete my routine. Now whether or not they worked the target muscle to the max is another story. I wholly believe steroids influence this aspect greatly.

PED's really do these two things well:

Strength
Recovery

But without the excessive protein intake and the frequent training sessions, the results of taking steroids isn't very impressive and will not stick long term. If anything, you just wind up with really good pumps and temporarily increased strength but no size gains. Basically, training just got a lot easier.

If you eat tons of food and protein and train every opportunity your body and schedule allows, then you will outpace your natural self by a long shot.
 
Yolked said:
If you workout like an enhanced athlete when you're not you will NEVER make gains... it's not the same at all
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Explain this again? Pushing the body to the utmost in my training sessions and eating tons of protein won't bring gains for a natural athlete?

You willing to take that to the grave? Bet your life savings on it?
 
If you train like a steroid user when you aren't you will probably be over training. Obviously you don't really know. Like I've been saying about guys who read stuff vs guys who live it... not just frequency but total volume as well. A natty athlete can't deal with the sheer volume that a enhanced athlete can... just a fact. I know because I've done it.. not read about it somewhere on a forum.. 6 years? I got 20..
 
Dorian is a guy who used Mike Mentzer Heavy Duty Principles... basically 1 work set per exercise... to eliminate chances of over training. Dorian would adjust his frequency adding or subtracting rest days depending on recovery. Where some guys would just add more sets or reps... the volume or work. it's a different philosophy. It's still about the total volume of the workload... you're doing more because you can.
 
Yolked said:
If you train like a steroid user when you aren't you will probably be over training. Obviously you don't really know. Like I've been saying about guys who read stuff vs guys who live it... not just frequency but total volume as well. A natty athlete can't deal with the sheer volume that a enhanced athlete can... just a fact. I know because I've done it.. not read about it somewhere on a forum
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I have too, Yolked. That's my point.

Volume doesn't have to be high on gear to grow. Just like volume doesn't have to be high for natural guys. That's my other point. I do know. Probably better than most people on this forum as I have made it a point to be very observant in everything I do, going on several years now.

Intensity matters.
Frequency matters.

How often u train and how long u need to rest between workouts is the largest factor of change from natural to enhanced. Which is precisely what I said earlier.

You think steroids automatically mean longer gym performance? Apparently you haven't experienced Tren, as it completely shuts down the cardio ability, crippling the body between sets. It literally feels like your about to have a heart attack. Many guys choose to trade intensity for length and volume while on steroids for this reason - because their blood pressure gets too high and they can breath from all the water weight gain and dramatic increases in hemoglobin count.

You probably haven't experienced SD, where the pumps are so bad you have to quit training because u can't walk or perform a decent range of motion.

If u want to train with longer volumes, just lighten the intensity. Otherwise, increase intensity and train short durations. You don't have to be enhanced to do this.

All that said, u totally miss the forest for the stupid tree blocking ur view. My point is that fundamentally a natural athlete ought to be training and eating similarly as an enhanced athlete. The only thing different is the degree of the results. Steroids cause MORE growth, MORE strength, MORE recovery. But what others were saying is that results happen with steroids but not with natural athletes. That my friend, is bs.

This board used to pride itself in saying that a newcomer must first learn to train right, eat right and find consistency in a natural state before ever considering to do PED's. Its anecdotally accepted that better results from cycles come with those who already train and eat like a pro bb'r. Think about that for a second...

You just get more of the same with steroids. We need to stop the cancerous idea that steroid users have different rules to play by. Last time I checked, the muscle gets stimulated by weights with or without steroids. The harder u work, the more u eat, the better the results.

Overtraining is a really, really hard thing to do. I bet 99% of people in the gym have never experienced it. Ever. I'm done discussing this though because I have repeated myself multiple times. Now I'm just giving u more angles of the same picture hoping the light bulb goes off.

For those that think by being natural u must do less, eat less and expect little to nothing for results - good luck. You might need to be enhanced after all...
 
Yolked said:
If you train like a steroid user when you aren't you will probably be over training. Obviously you don't really know. Like I've been saying about guys who read stuff vs guys who live it... not just frequency but total volume as well. A natty athlete can't deal with the sheer volume that a enhanced athlete can... just a fact. I know because I've done it.. not read about it somewhere on a forum.. 6 years? I got 20..
Click to expand...

Your making the assumption high volume is what works best for everyone.
 
fueledpassion said:
I have too, Yolked. That's my point.

Volume doesn't have to be high on gear to grow. Just like volume doesn't have to be high for natural guys. That's my other point. I do know. Probably better than most people on this forum as I have made it a point to be very observant in everything I do, going on several years now.

Intensity matters.
Frequency matters.

How often u train and how long u need to rest between workouts is the largest factor of change from natural to enhanced. Which is precisely what I said earlier.

You think steroids automatically mean longer gym performance? Apparently you haven't experienced Tren, as it completely shuts down the cardio ability, crippling the body between sets. It literally feels like your about to have a heart attack. Many guys choose to trade intensity for length and volume while on steroids for this reason - because their blood pressure gets too high and they can breath from all the water weight gain and dramatic increases in hemoglobin count.

You probably haven't experienced SD, where the pumps are so bad you have to quit training because u can't walk or perform a decent range of motion.

If u want to train with longer volumes, just lighten the intensity. Otherwise, increase intensity and train short durations. You don't have to be enhanced to do this.

All that said, u totally miss the forest for the stupid tree blocking ur view. My point is that fundamentally a natural athlete ought to be training and eating similarly as an enhanced athlete. The only thing different is the degree of the results. Steroids cause MORE growth, MORE strength, MORE recovery. But what others were saying is that results happen with steroids but not with natural athletes. That my friend, is bs.

This board used to pride itself in saying that a newcomer must first learn to train right, eat right and find consistency in a natural state before ever considering to do PED's. Its anecdotally accepted that better results from cycles come with those who already train and eat like a pro bb'r. Think about that for a second...

You just get more of the same with steroids. We need to stop the cancerous idea that steroid users have different rules to play by. Last time I checked, the muscle gets stimulated by weights with or without steroids. The harder u work, the more u eat, the better the results.

Overtraining is a really, really hard thing to do. I bet 99% of people in the gym have never experienced it. Ever. I'm done discussing this though because I have repeated myself multiple times. Now I'm just giving u more angles of the same picture hoping the light bulb goes off.

For those that think by being natural u must do less, eat less and expect little to nothing for results - good luck. You might need to be enhanced after all...
Click to expand...

You're talking about volume per workout but volume is also your total work done over time... as in your volume for the session, week, month or year..and you're mistaken if you think 99% have never experienced over training... back in the day with Muscle and Fitness posting pro BB'S workouts and everyone thought if they did the same they'd be pro BB'S... eat what they eat and train like them and you'll be them.. plenty of guys overtrained and never made gains or minimal if that. So if I eat and train like an enhanced athlete I'll make optimal gains... WRONG who's talking about Tren... you got limited experience? cuz you only familiar with one type of hormone.. a properly enhanced athlete can and should train longer AND harder... with more frequency. And all training is "similar"... you lift you recover you lift again... if you train like an enhanced athlete when you're not b you won't make optimal gains... PERIOD!! You probably haven't experienced Dbol where you pump up so fast you want to stop after first set.. it's pushing past that that separates men from boys.. you're talking about Tren... the worst garbage you can take as well as SD. I've used both. GARBAGE. Tren is only for competition use. Precontest.. not worth the sides during off season... Very few guys who are serious bodybuilders will use that garbage when better is available. You don't lighten the intensity to get more volume. You do more because you can when enhanced... balls out the whole way.. the harder you work the more you eat? Well when you can't process more than a certain amount of protein natural and you're trained beyond that you're overtrained... you can't process unlimited protein when natural. The rest gets stored as fat..
 
jbryand101b said:
Your making the assumption high volume is what works best for everyone.
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No. I just said that's one philosophy. Increasing volume because you CAN handle it while enhanced.. to maximize your gains otherwise you're to reaching potential. It's like leaving something on the table. I want to maximize everthing I can while enhanced. If you use the same workload your body will struggle to keep up with recovery and gains won't be maximized.
 
Yolked said:
You're talking about volume per workout but volume is also your total work done over time... as in your volume for the session, week, month or year..and you're mistaken if you think 99% have never experienced over training... back in the day with Muscle and Fitness posting pro BB'S workouts and everyone thought if they did the same they'd be pro BB'S... eat what they eat and train like them and you'll be them.. plenty of guys overtrained and never made gains or minimal if that. So if I eat and train like an enhanced athlete I'll make optimal gains... WRONG who's talking about Tren... you got limited experience? cuz you only familiar with one type of hormone.. a properly enhanced athlete can and should train longer AND harder... with more frequency. And all training is "similar"... you lift you recover you lift again... if you train like an enhanced athlete when you're not b you won't make optimal gains... PERIOD!! You probably haven't experienced Dbol where you pump up so fast you want to stop after first set.. it's pushing past that that separates men from boys.. you're talking about Tren... the worst garbage you can take as well as SD. I've used both. GARBAGE. Tren is only for competition use. Precontest.. not worth the sides during off season... Very few guys who are serious bodybuilders will use that garbage when better is available. You don't lighten the intensity to get more volume. You do more because you can when enhanced... balls out the whole way.. the harder you work the more you eat? Well when you can't process more than a certain amount of protein natural andbif your trained beyond that you're overtrained... you can't process unlimited protein when natural.
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I'm tempted to argue with u, mainly because of ur attitude.

You win. You are right. Whatever I said, apparently I'm wrong.

Does that make ur anonymous Internet ego feel better? I hope it does, because u haven't taught anyone anything, other than ur desire to allow semantics to dominate ur post count.

Lighten up, learn to not be so technical. And learn to understand that semantics is what caused the miscommunication between u and I. Thisn isnt even an outright disagreement, but because the Internet sucks at conveying messages, we have to settle with text-only misinterpretations.
 
I've tried everything in over 22 years of training, minimal results Finally two years ago, I tried found nelson montana's "Cooked calves in under four minutes," 2 years later only doing this brutal routine once a week my calves are the biggest they've ever been.

Link. The routine directly as written in montana's article. He picks the seated calf raise which makes no since. The gastrocnemius is the main muscle and the sole us gets worked in any semi-straight leg calf raise as it crosses only the ankle joint.mso if your raising your heel - plantar flex ion I wouldn't bother as I never have ever doing seated calf raises. I also think when you look at Mai's of best exercises those that cause the greatest stretch are best for hypertrophy. So you have to choose one that the calves are stretched at both the ankle and knee joint - donkey calf raises or a90 degree leg press machine are optimal.


Side note: when Russians tested untrained athletes to determine who had the greatest potential for athleticism and muscle growth they found the two best indicators were UNTRAINED calf and forearm girth.

So, forearms are similar in this regard- very hard to make grow but this routine for calves is ideal for forearms and I've used it as well for them.


"Here's how it's done.
Pick only one calve exercise. (I prefer Your goal will be to
reach 75 reps.
Use a weight that you would normally choose for a twenty rep set.
Complete the 20 reps and continue until you can't do another rep.
Rest just long enough for the burning to subside (no longer than 10 seconds) and
continue with as many reps as possible, even if it's only 5 reps at a time.
Proceed in this fashion until you reach the target goal of 75.
That's it! Total time? Under 4 minutes."
 
Yolked said:
If you workout like an enhanced athlete when you're not you will NEVER make gains... it's not the same at all
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Thats so not true..maybe its bc I started so young and had high test levels, but my training was always based of steroid users method and I got crazy good gains till year 4 into it. Thats when I can say im no longer natural, but even before I dabbled with minor p.hs ppl thought I was on roids bc of my vascularity and size.

Everybodys body is different though, so cant say my method would work for everyone. Sure worked well for me. I mean I hit 330 on bench as a natural and was in the 7% bodyfat range while having 17.5 inch arms
 
I suppose never is not accurate. But if you want to make optimal gains and lift like a enhanced athlete can and should... you will be overtrained and will hit plateaus and maybe even stop making gains. Definitely not as good as if it was tailored for a natural athlete. a natural body won't process nutrients at the same capacity and rate as an enhanced... it's just plain and simple. If a natural athlete eat as much as an enhanced athlete the body can't use it for recovery and will actually store it... it's just a fact... you eat more as an enhanced athlete because your body will actually use it.
 
jbryand101b said:
Your making the assumption high volume is what works best for everyone.
Click to expand...

No. The fact is an enhanced athlete can still recover and should increase volume to maximize gains... if not you're wasting your money on gear... if you do the same workload as a natural athlete you will not be using the extra recovery the way you should.... may as well be natural...
 
Yolked said:
No. The fact is an enhanced athlete can still recover and should increase volume to maximize gains... if not you're wasting your money on gear... if you do the same workload as a natural athlete you will not be using the extra recovery the way you should.... may as well be natural...
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Now your changing it up again? are you even sure you know what your trying to say?

What ever it is when you finally can decide, it'll hold more weight if you can back it up with some data instead of just bro science.
I mean, love me some good ol fashioned bro science, but it's for humor, not to be taken serious.
 
Yolked said:
I suppose never is not accurate. But if you want to make optimal gains and lift like a enhanced athlete can and should... you will be overtrained and will hit plateaus and maybe even stop making gains. Definitely not as good as if it was tailored for a natural athlete. a natural body won't process nutrients at the same capacity and rate as an enhanced... it's just plain and simple. If a natural athlete eat as much as an enhanced athlete the body can't use it for recovery and will actually store it... it's just a fact... you eat more as an enhanced athlete because your body will actually use it.
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You keep tossing around the word fact. Where are your data based references for all these facts?
I'm not disagreeing with you, just playing devils advocate.
 
jbryand101b said:
You keep tossing around the word fact. Where are your data based references for all these facts?
I'm not disagreeing with you, just playing devils advocate.
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20 years of data... just never wrote it down... Whoa someone who agrees? I've seen it in the gym... guys get on a cycle and make gains... they come off and gains almost come to a halt.. and guys ask how you keep making gains if I'm not always on... well you adjust your diet and workload. Not just frequency. If you keep the same caloric intake you will be over eating as you just can't process as much nutrients when natural. Anything over what it can use and it stores it... AS FAT. So do more cardio... well there go your gains.. as it's that much harder the more cardio you're doing... there's a reason protein requirements are not UNLIMITED... for natural humans... More than that and it's waste...
Real world experience. You are just inexperienced if you think a natural athlete can handle the same workload as a enhanced athlete. Just plain and simple. If you train like an enhanced athlete when you're not you won't make optimal gains and may stagnate or even stop making gains. This started because several of you think a natural athlete should use same protocol as a an enhanced athlete only adjusting frequency... if you only adjust frequency you're limiting your enhanced time. While enhanced an athlete should be doing more total work not just more often... because their body can keep up with recovery and should maximize your enhanced time. Very nieve or just think you're know it alls... You just go on thinking that while guys who adapt their program to their recovery capabilities are the ones who will keep making gains...
 
Yolked said:
20 years of data... just never wrote it down... Whoa someone who agrees? I've seen it in the gym... guys get on a cycle and make gains... they come off and gains almost come to a halt.. and guys ask how you keep making gains if I'm not always on... well you adjust your diet and workload. Not just frequency. If you keep the same caloric intake you will be over eating as you just can't process as much nutrients when natural. Anything over what it can use and it stores it... AS FAT. So do more cardio... well there go your gains.. as it's that much harder the more cardio you're doing... there's a reason protein requirements are not UNLIMITED... for natural humans... More than that and it's waste...
Real world experience. You are just inexperienced if you think a natural athlete can handle the same workload as a enhanced athlete. Just plain and simple. If you train like an enhanced athlete when you're not you won't make optimal gains and may stagnate or even stop making gains. This started because several of you think a natural athlete should use same protocol as a an enhanced athlete only adjusting frequency... if you only adjust frequency you're limiting your enhanced time. While enhanced an athlete should be doing more total work not just more often... because their body can keep up with recovery and should maximize your enhanced time. Very nieve or just think you're know it alls... You just go on thinking that while guys who adapt their program to their recovery capabilities are the ones who will keep making gains...
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I'm not reading the page long responses you've written out anyone else like fueled in this thread, cause it's a waste of time.
Now if you have links to support whatever your trying to say, I'll gladly read those research articles.
 
jbryand101b said:
I'm not reading the page long responses you've written out anyone else like fueled in this thread, cause it's a waste of time.
Now if you have links to support whatever your trying to say, I'll gladly read those research articles.
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I don't have time to look up experiments that some pencilneck bookworm has done... it's a fact you can't process as much nutrients when you're natural. Everything else just falls in behind that and only a inexperienced newb would think otherwise. I don't care if you agree. Stay small and skinny.
 
Yolked said:
I don't have time to look up experiments that some pencilneck bookworm has done... it's a fact you can't process as much nutrients when you're natural. Everything else just falls in behind that and only a inexperienced newb would think otherwise. I don't care if you agree. Stay small and skinny.
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Just say you don't have any references to back up your claims and really have no idea what you're talking about but that it just makes sense to you.
Lulz....
Somehow you think a person has to be small and skinny to be smart and intelligent.
Based off this logic, you must think of yourself as big and stupid?
 
Yeah no doubt. I actually thought twice before posting because I didn't want it to come across like a dig, but funny is funny. I'd laugh if it was directed at me.
 
Oh no.. pencilneck bookworm was a term of endearment... and you definitely don't have to be one to be intelligent. I love those guys. Well if I said I didn't have references I'd be lying because I have many.. from my own experience.
 
And it's a well known fact that steroids allow you to process more nutrients. So therefore a natural person would process less... it's a general rule of thumb atleast that if with something you process more that you would process less without it.. If I need documentation to prove that to you then you're on the wrong forum..
 
You aren't understanding. I've tried and tried, but can't seem to help you understand the difference between anecdotal and data.
I give up!

Back to calf talk.

7 calf raise's for every time the Seahawks score, 15 for every time Panthers score to get your calves huge.
Go Carolina, but we all know the outcome.
 
I hear if you wait long enough your calf could grow into a cow! I could try and find the research but I don't have the time or energy lulz
 
jbryand101b said:
You aren't understanding. I've tried and tried, but can't seem to help you understand the difference between anecdotal and data.
I give up!

Back to calf talk.

7 calf raise's for every time the Seahawks score, 15 for every time Panthers score to get your calves huge.
Go Carolina, but we all know the outcome.
Click to expand...

It's not anecdotal. Like the sky is up and water is wet.. If you don't know that you don't belong on this site giving advice to anyone.
 
So steroids don't work is what you're saying and you can train like a steroid user and get big when you're not on em... Where's your proof of that
 
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