Are all topicals systemic?

thegodfather

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Forgive my ignorance about this as I don't know a lot of the science behind these things, but I am curious as to how much of topical supplements become systemic throughout our body. For instance fat burners, I understand Evomuse Supernova/Hypernova is supposed to stay localized, but what keeps it that way? I've read that Vasoburn acts in a systemic way and affects the whole central nervous system. I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this. I would like to apply a topical fat burner that is localized only if that's at all possible.
 
cheftepesh1

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Forgive my ignorance about this as I don't know a lot of the science behind these things, but I am curious as to how much of topical supplements become systemic throughout our body. For instance fat burners, I understand Evomuse Supernova/Hypernova is supposed to stay localized, but what keeps it that way? I've read that Vasoburn acts in a systemic way and affects the whole central nervous system. I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this. I would like to apply a topical fat burner that is localized only if that's at all possible.
Since it is absorbed into the body, I would say they all effect the entire body in some way.
 
nostrum420

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It depends on how the carrier is formulated and the compounds being delivered. Liquids and gels tend to be systemic, whereas the more lotion-like stuff tends to be more localized. <-- oversimplified but a good rule of thumb.
 
HIT4ME

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Yes, I think everyone is saying the right things in this thread, so I'm just going to parrot and try to say it in a different way. I think that anything that gets absorbed transdermally will have some small amount that goes systemic.

The formulation of the carrier is what is important as to whether or not it goes systemic of stays local. The trick is to first penetrate the skin - solvents and penetration enhancers will be necessary. But depending on which solvents and enhancers you choose, you will get different results. Some will deliver the product into areas that the bloodstream will pick up, while others can help prevent that to some degree.

With fat burners, it's a little easier (I think) because you just have to make sure it penetrates the skin, but not the layer of fat underneath. Fat tends to have lesser blood supply, so if you use certain carriers you will get the ingredients into the area where the fat cells are and it will site there for quite a while. Kind of like injecting into a muscle where it will go systemic pretty quickly vs. injecting subq into a fat layer where the release will be a little slower.

While some of the ingredient may likely still go systemic - there are plenty of user experiences that suggest localization works. Namely, a number of people have used clen in the Evomuse topicals and reported a dramatic decrease in clen-related side effects even at higher doses. Some of that decrease may be due to a lower absorption rate through the skin, but even large doses seem to avoid the side effects, so that wouldn't entirely account for the effects.

Some of the effect will also have to do with the ingredient you are delivering itself. Some ingredients will start causing effects the minute the touch a tissue - like ArA in Top Muscle. If you apply it to the muscle and can get it in there right when you work it, you will get a larger dose to the area being worked and it will have the effect locally before whatever is left over can go systemic.

I'm no expert and I hope I haven't mispoken here on the science - @dsade , @delsolrob and @nostrum420 are probably the top guys on this board for this info.
 
sns8778

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Transdermals are many times referred to as topicals because that's the way they are legally supposed to be referred to.

Transdermals/topicals can be made to be systemic or localized depending on the carrier mechanism.

Keep in mind that even if one is localized, some of it is still going to wind up systemic, just not as much as if one is formulated to be.
 

bigdadybry

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I also take into consideration the application site and the goals of what I am applying.

For example, I don't put Eviscerate on my neck and I don't put EpiAndro on my stomach. One I want a local affect, the other I want systemic (or absorbed in an ideal region that benefits my goal).

Thinner, more vascular skin is ideal for a product you want to go systemic. Topical fat burners would need to transverse a thicker, less vascular region to have a dramatic affect systemically and contain products in sufficient quantities to produce a systemic affect.

IMHO, if you are above 20% BF and applying a topical fat burner to an area high in fat, you will not experience the systemic affects of the active ingredients.
 
ValiantThor08

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Evomuse has topical Andro lotion, and from what I have read it is supposed to be more local than systemic.
 
thebigt

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local--the carrier is made to penetrate skin but not be absorbed into bloodstream.
systematic--the carrier is made to be absorbed into bloodstream.
 

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