Unanswered Anyone used another Beta-2 Agonist (Clen Alternative)?

[flyingmoose]

I'm not keen on ug clen, esp the liquid and that's all I can find. I can, however get any number of medium and long acting B2-agonist RX asthma medications from a pharmacy. Has anyone used any of these non-Clen B2 agonists for a cut? What worked for you?

 

[jrock645]

You mean like albuterol?

 

[flyingmoose]

Yeah, but albuterol is short acting. I think you'd have to hit the inhaler every hour to have any sort of effect. It's not even banned by WADA.

I was thinking more of Salmeterol or Formoterol (brand names vary by country). Those are inhaled only as far as I can tell. No idea what an appropriate dose would be...puff puff, wait for shakes...puff...wait for cramps?

Prolly better just to find pharma clen somewhere.

 

[jrock645]

Yeah, but albuterol is short acting. I think you'd have to hit the inhaler every hour to have any sort of effect. It's not even banned by WADA.

I was thinking more of Salmeterol or Formoterol (brand names vary by country). Those are inhaled only as far as I can tell. No idea what an appropriate dose would be...puff puff, wait for shakes...puff...wait for cramps?

Prolly better just to find pharma clen somewhere.

Considering Clen hasn’t been approved for human use in most places, I find it very doubtful that you’ll find pharma grade Clen.

 

[HIT4ME]

I believe, could be wrong, Inhaled albuterol tends to stay in the lungs for the most part. A small amount goes systemic. But this is obviously a huge benefit from a medical perspective - you aren't stressing the heart to breath.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

I believe, could be wrong, Inhaled albuterol tends to stay in the lungs for the most part. A small amount goes systemic. But this is obviously a huge benefit from a medical perspective - you aren't stressing the heart to breath.

It definitely does got systemic after inhalation, cmax are relatively proportional although the dosage you need for effective ashma management is around 1/10th of the oral dose hence a lower serum level.

 

[HIT4ME]

s7w

It definitely does got systemic after inhalation, cmax are relatively proportional although the dosage you need for effective ashma management is around 1/10th of the oral dose hence a lower serum level.

Yeah, people use it for fat loss so I would think it should, but I thought I read somewhere it did not. I was wrong I guess.

Do you kniw what the side effect profile looks like there in comparison to clen? I would assume safer...but not sure.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

s7w


Yeah, people use it for fat loss so I would think it should, but I thought I read somewhere it did not. I was wrong I guess.

Do you kniw what the side effect profile looks like there in comparison to clen? I would assume safer...but not sure.

Albuterol is significantly weaker that Clen IME for fat loss, even when accounting for dosage differentials in EC. I wager it is because of its lackluster half-life.

Honestly any beta-2's can get dangerous if a person has an underlying condition, dosage is going to make the poison but at the same time there are things you can do and take to prevent many of the issues people get from them. Im a big fan of clen and it is miles better than any other readily available beta-2s. Use a moderate dose of an ACE-type 2 inhibitor and you won't even know you are using a beta-2.

 

[HIT4ME]

Albuterol is significantly weaker that Clen IME for fat loss, even when accounting for dosage differentials in EC. I wager it is because of its lackluster half-life.

Honestly any beta-2's can get dangerous if a person has an underlying condition, dosage is going to make the poison but at the same time there are things you can do and take to prevent many of the issues people get from them. Im a big fan of clen and it is miles better than any other readily available beta-2s. Use a moderate dose of an ACE-type 2 inhibitor and you won't even know you are using a beta-2.

That is interesting - you should jump in on the T3 thread that is up. We got into a clen discussion...I'm not against clen, but I haven't used it and I do feel the heart issues warrant some concern. But...I could be wrong. Maybe you can show me the light!

 

[Dutch guy in asia]

That is interesting - you should jump in on the T3 thread that is up. We got into a clen discussion...I'm not against clen, but I haven't used it and I do feel the heart issues warrant some concern. But...I could be wrong. Maybe you can show me the light!

Many many people have used clen (me included) more so even on UK muscle. They have a totally different idea about it then you and many on here. I can get clen quite easy and have used it at low (some go real high) doses around 40-80mcg. I got pharma grade stuff because I live in Thailand its easy to get.

The heart problems if they were so easy to get would have been in the news many times not just that time that you show. I just don't like using it that much as it messes with my sleep and anything that messes my sleep is something I don't take.

But with everything dosage makes something a poison. So I am quite sure that if you use huge huge over 200 mcg dosage there might be quite a few risks.

 

[HIT4ME]

Many many people have used clen (me included) more so even on UK muscle. They have a totally different idea about it then you and many on here. I can get clen quite easy and have used it at low (some go real high) doses around 40-80mcg. I got pharma grade stuff because I live in Thailand its easy to get.

The heart problems if they were so easy to get would have been in the news many times not just that time that you show. I just don't like using it that much as it messes with my sleep and anything that messes my sleep is something I don't take.

But with everything dosage makes something a poison. So I am quite sure that if you use huge huge over 200 mcg dosage there might be quite a few risks.

Don't get me wrong, I am not 100% anti-clen. I am against people making claims that ignore actual evidence and risks, in favor of a belief that has no evidence supporting it.

In the other thread a 10 minute search dug up 5 cases (not 1) of people having cardiotoxicity associated with clen, with doses as low as 20 ug.

To ignore that and say, "All the bros on an inderground bodybuilding site claim it is a myth" is foolishness.

That defense is the best anyone has presented in the other thread and it is flawed. For one, bodybuilders die prematurely all the time, and this is a population that you are claiming uses this drug all the time. It is correlation and thus flawed, but it is the argument presented in defense that it is safe which is illogical.

Second, the fact that a lot of people do something isn't really conclusive either. If you walk into a room with 5 people amd a revolver and all 5 people put that revolver to their head and pull the trigger, does that mean it is safe for you to do the same?

If people choose to use clen I am fine with that. I just hate people parroting other people as if it is fact and calling things myths that lack the data to prove or disprove. People should have the knowledge available to accurately weigh the risk and rewards.

My view on it is that it may be a small risk, but it is a risk - and the rewards may not be worth the roll of the dice. As you said in another thread, at some point it isn't magic and you can achieve a lot with diet and exercise and time.

To be honest, I HAVE used T3 and that experience is part of my analysis. It wasn't game changing. and I learned from that to give up on my hope of magic and be more reasonable with my assessments.

Different people will make dofferent choices for themselves and I am fine with that. I just want to balance the view a little, because the risks could be real or they could be very small - I just don't think we know yet. And all the people saying they are small and calling the risks "myths" haven't shown much evidence.

 

[Dutch guy in asia]

Don't get me wrong, I am not 100% anti-clen. I am against people making claims that ignore actual evidence and risks, in favor of a belief that has no evidence supporting it.

In the other thread a 10 minute search dug up 5 cases (not 1) of people having cardiotoxicity associated with clen, with doses as low as 20 ug.

To ignore that and say, "All the bros on an inderground bodybuilding site claim it is a myth" is foolishness.

That defense is the best anyone has presented in the other thread and it is flawed. For one, bodybuilders die prematurely all the time, and this is a population that you are claiming uses this drug all the time. It is correlation and thus flawed, but it is the argument presented in defense that it is safe which is illogical.

Second, the fact that a lot of people do something isn't really conclusive either. If you walk into a room with 5 people amd a revolver and all 5 people put that revolver to their head and pull the trigger, does that mean it is safe for you to do the same?

If people choose to use clen I am fine with that. I just hate people parroting other people as if it is fact and calling things myths that lack the data to prove or disprove. People should have the knowledge available to accurately weigh the risk and rewards.

My view on it is that it may be a small risk, but it is a risk - and the rewards may not be worth the roll of the dice. As you said in another thread, at some point it isn't magic and you can achieve a lot with diet and exercise and time.

To be honest, I HAVE used T3 and that experience is part of my analysis. It wasn't game changing. and I learned from that to give up on my hope of magic and be more reasonable with my assessments.

Different people will make dofferent choices for themselves and I am fine with that. I just want to balance the view a little, because the risks could be real or they could be very small - I just don't think we know yet. And all the people saying they are small and calling the risks "myths" haven't shown much evidence.

I don't say there are no risks but for healthy people at low doses the risks are not that high. The cases you showed don't say anything about dosage and in the animal studies the dosage was (if recalculated for body weight) far to high and not what normal users do. The problem with any drug is that its toxicity depends on the dosage. My point is that its widely used and we don't see as many problems as there would be if it was a high risk. It certainly is not risk free. But neither is me riding my scooter in Bangkok traffic (30.000 road deaths in Thailand).

The thing is we all think differently about risks and we are all different too. I like that you bring the risks to attention that is needed some people think its 100% safe. I don't I think there are risks but they are dose and duration dependent and dependent on underlying health risks.

Like you have tried T3 and unlike you i tried clen. Both are like you say no game changers, though some people get great results from them. For me T3 is a no no not because of risks thyroid seems to recover in 2 weeks but because it messes my sleep up. Some people have no problems at all as we are all different.

Clen might help but ONLY if you already have a great diet, same goes for T3. I might consider clen again in a few a month or more IF i hit a platteau and conventional measures like adding more cardio (already doing my cardio) wont help. I prefer to use as little stimulants as possible given my predisposition for sleep problems. (T3 is worse for me clen is a stimulant so it might be bad too especially because of the long half life). The only stimulant i take is cafeine but only at 7 or 8 am for 200mg and that is it.

I am on TRT that is why I do extra cardio to prevent heart problems, I now am trying peptides (that increase HGH) so far they seem to help but again not a game changer and some people get better results from T3 or clen fat burning wise. I take them mainly for recovery and better sleep (again sleep is crap I do anything to get that better).

I feel risks should be pointed out not exaggerated, the US is great at that (reefer madness anyone). When people exaggerate the risks they lose credibility. I am not saying you are exaggerating it as there is probably a risk. But I doubt the risk is high at the lower dosage of the stuff. With anything poison is dose dependent.

 

[HIT4ME]

I don't say there are no risks but for healthy people at low doses the risks are not that high. The cases you showed don't say anything about dosage and in the animal studies the dosage was (if recalculated for body weight) far to high and not what normal users do. The problem with any drug is that its toxicity depends on the dosage. My point is that its widely used and we don't see as many problems as there would be if it was a high risk. It certainly is not risk free. But neither is me riding my scooter in Bangkok traffic (30.000 road deaths in Thailand).

The thing is we all think differently about risks and we are all different too. I like that you bring the risks to attention that is needed some people think its 100% safe. I don't I think there are risks but they are dose and duration dependent and dependent on underlying health risks.

Like you have tried T3 and unlike you i tried clen. Both are like you say no game changers, though some people get great results from them. For me T3 is a no no not because of risks thyroid seems to recover in 2 weeks but because it messes my sleep up. Some people have no problems at all as we are all different.

Clen might help but ONLY if you already have a great diet, same goes for T3. I might consider clen again in a few a month or more IF i hit a platteau and conventional measures like adding more cardio (already doing my cardio) wont help. I prefer to use as little stimulants as possible given my predisposition for sleep problems. (T3 is worse for me clen is a stimulant so it might be bad too especially because of the long half life). The only stimulant i take is cafeine but only at 7 or 8 am for 200mg and that is it.

I am on TRT that is why I do extra cardio to prevent heart problems, I now am trying peptides (that increase HGH) so far they seem to help but again not a game changer and some people get better results from T3 or clen fat burning wise. I take them mainly for recovery and better sleep (again sleep is crap I do anything to get that better).

I feel risks should be pointed out not exaggerated, the US is great at that (reefer madness anyone). When people exaggerate the risks they lose credibility. I am not saying you are exaggerating it as there is probably a risk. But I doubt the risk is high at the lower dosage of the stuff. With anything poison is dose dependent.

I agree with much of your stance and, hell, I have done things that may not be "smart" to achieve goals. As you say, things are almost never risk free. I am fine with someone deciding for themselves. In the other thread I took exception because the heart risks were being called a "myth". I hate to argue but I also think it is unfare to someone who may be clueless that googles ans finds a random thread that says these issues are "myths".

The studies I posted in the other threads were often not even studies, they were case reports - including the case which had toxicity at just 20 ug.

 

[Dutch guy in asia]

I agree with much of your stance and, hell, I have done things that may not be "smart" to achieve goals. As you say, things are almost never risk free. I am fine with someone deciding for themselves. In the other thread I took exception because the heart risks were being called a "myth". I hate to argue but I also think it is unfare to someone who may be clueless that googles ans finds a random thread that says these issues are "myths".

The studies I posted in the other threads were often not even studies, they were case reports - including the case which had toxicity at just 20 ug.

What is 20 ug (sorry not familiar with that) do you mean 20mcg (that is dose for asthma) so i doubt it would be dangerous at that level.

 

[HIT4ME]

What is 20 ug (sorry not familiar with that) do you mean 20mcg (that is dose for asthma) so i doubt it would be dangerous at that level.

Yeah, sorry, micrograms. I was being lazy. It isn't a u, it is a mu but I didn't have that on my keyboard

The case reports I posted in the other thread had people showing up in the ER after taking 20 mcg.

Not a smoking gun by a long shot. I will concede we don't know the source and if it was actually 20 mcg and even if it was - as everyone likes to point out - we are all different. I know safety is a moving target and it could be safe for 99.99% of people and I would say that is generally safe with some outliers.

Still, a lot of people seem to ignore these facts - if something is really safe in light of the facts, the facts don't need to be ignored.

I am not trying to be a zealot here. I do understand plenty of people use it and are fine, but I suspect some people use it without recognizing potential risks.

And risks don't take something off the table either. My gf has asthma and even albuterol has mouse data suggesting cardiotoxicity - but the alternative is dying from suffocation vs. a small chance of heart issues and that is certainly worth it.

 

[Dutch guy in asia]

Yeah, sorry, micrograms. I was being lazy. It isn't a u, it is a mu but I didn't have that on my keyboard

The case reports I posted in the other thread had people showing up in the ER after taking 20 mcg.

Not a smoking gun by a long shot. I will concede we don't know the source and if it was actually 20 mcg and even if it was - as everyone likes to point out - we are all different. I know safety is a moving target and it could be safe for 99.99% of people and I would say that is generally safe with some outliers.

Still, a lot of people seem to ignore these facts - if something is really safe in light of the facts, the facts don't need to be ignored.

I am not trying to be a zealot here. I do understand plenty of people use it and are fine, but I suspect some people use it without recognizing potential risks.

And risks don't take something off the table either. My gf has asthma and even albuterol has mouse data suggesting cardiotoxicity - but the alternative is dying from suffocation vs. a small chance of heart issues and that is certainly worth it.

Ok anyway I got pharma grade clen at home, and prefer not to use it anymore same as t3. However I might change my mind if i hit a plateau. I would rather do extra HIIT or cardio to combat a plateau but still if all else fails. But its not something I would use regularly. T3 least and not because of dangers as I consider those not that high but sleep problems (for me many others dont have that problem). Clen never had any problems with it (besides bad cramps if you dont use taurine and magnesium) But I havent used it much 2-3 times in my life.

But T3 and clen both give marginal benefits I have read 5% extra burn that is only 100 cals if you burn 2000 normally. A bit of cardio can burn more. The advantage of clen is though that it helps to burn the fat in other ways making it more available for burn.

I understand you with the risks for me I know that its not dangerous as I tried it before and know how i respond to it. Can't say its the same for everyone. Just lookup sibutramine (banned almost everywhere) I have used it (stopped again messed with my sleep) but other then that no side effects but a great appetite reduction.

Not sure if i can still get it they are even now going after it in Thailand, plus again anything that does anything with my sleep is a no no for me. That something is dangerous for some does not mean its dangerous for everyone but like you say it also does not mean its safe for everyone.

People should understand risks before they start anything.

IMHO diet is king all other things can help but just a bit.

 

[chemjr]

T3 has made at your mattress for me even as low as 10 microgram per day. Although I know at one point I did have some hypothyroidism going on but I think that was due to some other things I think my thyroid is pretty much good to go now but I enjoy the effects of the T3 and it's a light dose so I stayed with it. Also I haven't seen anyone mention ephedrine tabs that they sell at the pharmacy labeled under primatene mist and Bausch & Lomb also cells the same thing except they're not 12.5 mg they are 25 mg do usually cost the same amount so I almost always get the bow xinlong ones and since that stuff is made by a real pharmaceutical company you know it is real ephedrine and Dost correctly and you would be surprised what 12.5 mg of ephedrine can do! I sure was. I have people that lump there 30 mg Adderalls whoever actually paid me for some of my ephedrine tabs because they thought they were prescription. Also I have seen albuterol tablets for sale as well on the internet and I have also tried those and they are great for breathing better whereas Clen makes me feel like I can't breathe almost and I think because of the increased output that's why you lose weight using Albuterol and it may have some slight fat burning effects. Then there's always yohimbine which I'm pretty sure is a beta Agonist if I remember correctly which is why it targets fat tissue so well.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Why not try Cardarine? It may not directly burn fat but it greatly ehances endurance which allows you to work/train longer which indirectly contributes to greater fat loss.

 

[Dutch guy in asia]

Why not try Cardarine? It may not directly burn fat but it greatly ehances endurance which allows you to work/train longer which indirectly contributes to greater fat loss.

Have you used it ? I have maybe it was fake or something else happened but I did not feel much effect from it at all. I know my other stuff that i bought on that site was good. HGH and peptides as I got sides and saw improvements. So it might have been the cardanine was either not working or you and I have different ideas of what greatly means.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Have you used it ? I have maybe it was fake or something else happened but I did not feel much effect from it at all. I know my other stuff that i bought on that site was good. HGH and peptides as I got sides and saw improvements. So it might have been the cardanine was either not working or you and I have different ideas of what greatly means.

No I haven't personally used it but I can recommend GW by MA Supps or try one of the board sponsors that have Cardarine.

 

[Dutch guy in asia]

No I haven't personally used it but I can recommend GW by MA Supps or try one of the board sponsors that have Cardarine.

So you havent used it and accept what a seller says. Ok great.

I used it did not do anything for me plus there are issues with cancer. (ok not human but animal studies but still)

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

So you havent used it and accept what a seller says. Ok great.

I used it did not do anything for me plus there are issues with cancer. (ok not human but animal studies but still)

What's with the 'tude dude? Just offering OP some other options. If he's interested he can research the compound and check out other people's logs.

 

[Dutch guy in asia]

What's with the 'tude dude? Just offering OP some other options. If he's interested he can research the compound and check out other people's logs.

I just don't understand how someone like you who has no experience with a substance and relies on the site of a seller (who are by nature bias) can recommend something like that.

I would have understood if you had used the compound yourself. I have so I would say I am in a better position to comment on that compound would you not agree ?

My experiences with the substance from a reliable source were that they are just not worth it, I get the same feedback from an other bodybuilding site i visit. Remember there is hardly any research done on those compounds.

It just blows my mind that people recommend things they never used themselves. I can get that if you recommend creatine (not for fat loss of course) but that is something that has been proven to work. The same cannot be said from the compound your touting. So I would only have lend it credibility if you had used it.

Its nothing personal just basic logic.

 

[GreekTheBrick]

I had far better results with albuterol than T3. Clen, havent touch, wont touch... All 3 easily available at pharmacies in some parts of Europe

 

[HIT4ME]

I just don't understand how someone like you who has no experience with a substance and relies on the site of a seller (who are by nature bias) can recommend something like that.

I would have understood if you had used the compound yourself. I have so I would say I am in a better position to comment on that compound would you not agree ?

My experiences with the substance from a reliable source were that they are just not worth it, I get the same feedback from an other bodybuilding site i visit. Remember there is hardly any research done on those compounds.

It just blows my mind that people recommend things they never used themselves. I can get that if you recommend creatine (not for fat loss of course) but that is something that has been proven to work. The same cannot be said from the compound your touting. So I would only have lend it credibility if you had used it.

Its nothing personal just basic logic.

My issue isn't even that he hasn't used it. If I get prostate cancer and my doctor hands me a prescription, I don't ask, "Have you used this?"

I do understand using something imparts some level of experience. Even still, how would most of us know if we took something and now we are going to have cancer from it 5 years from now?

The issue is getting information that is biased and poor, ignoring risks and assuming something is safe because we lack information to prove it is not safe - and then using that paradigm to advise others.

 

[Dutch guy in asia]

My issue isn't even that he hasn't used it. If I get prostate cancer and my doctor hands me a prescription, I don't ask, "Have you used this?"

I do understand using something imparts some level of experience. Even still, how would most of us know if we took something and now we are going to have cancer from it 5 years from now?

The issue is getting information that is biased and poor, ignoring risks and assuming something is safe because we lack information to prove it is not safe - and then using that paradigm to advise others.

Also really true, but I was more talking about the "supposed" benefits. I used it (before i read too much about the cancer I used one bottle of it. I can't say i noticed much if anything. After the cancer stuff i decided never to use it again. But really getting all your information from the site of a seller is bad.