Any interest in a super high quality, fully-disclosed whole food, super-food product?

[Mike Arnold]

FULLY-DISCLOSED WHOLE FOOD PRODUCT?




What is on the Market Now?
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I just wanted to get feedback on whether or not the community has any interest in a high-quality, fully-disclosed whole-food product. As many of you know, there has never been a fully-disclosed food product released in the bodybuilding-fitness community, let alone a WHOLE-FOOD fully-disclosed product. Why? Simple. It's because the company's profit margin would be very small. In truth, I can't really blame anyone for not wanting to make this kind of a product...because I'm not even sure myself. The profit margins are super small...even when the product price is high.

Traditionally, most supplement companies, when making "food" products, have chosen to obfuscate the truth regarding the quantities of ingredients in their products....because if the people really knew what they were paying for, sales would fall dramatically. You see, by law, the only nutrition FACTS a company must disclose on the label are the ingredients and the total protein, carb, and fat content, etc.. They don't need to tell you HOW MUCH of each ingredient is in their product. This makes it very easy to formulate a product that may look good on paper, but in reality, is total shite.

For example, If you look at the majority of today's whole-food products, they are comprised of two primary ingredients---oats & ground up cow bones, tendons and other connective tissue (e.g. beef protein isolate, or animal collagen protein). There is ZERO actual animal flesh (or organ meat) in the beef protein isolate you find in today's "whole-food" sports nutrition products. That's right, you are eating the garbage left-overs after the cow has been completely stripped of its valuable parts. Heck, even the dog food companies include higher quality parts of the cow than what you find in today's beef protein isolate.

Because beef protein isolate is made up of zero animal flesh, it isn't even considered a complete protein. This makes it near worthless for muscle-building. Now, collagen has some benefits, but muscle growth isn't one of them...and even when assessing the various types of collagen currently available, animal collagen ranks low on the list. You can eat it, but it is NOT considered FOOD...unless you think eating connective tissue and bones is food.

Oats. A great food to be sure, but do you want to pay $50-$60 for a product that is comprised almost entirely of oats and beef protein isolate (non-complete, garbage protein)? If we look at one of today's top-selling whole-food products, it contains a few dozen different ingredients. A bunch of them are great, such as wild yams, a bunch of fruits, vegetables, and some high quality protein and carb sources...along with oats and beef protein isolate. When you find out what the actual ingredient ratios are, you come to learn that 90% of the product is nothing but oats and beef protein isolate. Personally, I wouldn't even want to consume beef protein isolate, let alone pay for it...and while oats are good, they aren't worth $60 a container. As for the other 10% of the product, 5% of it is comprised of a few other, fairly low quality protein sources...and the final 5% is all the valuable ingredients people think they're getting; all the fruits and vegetables, the higher quality protein and carb sources, etc. Essentially, the "good stuff" makes up about 1/20th of the product. This is the truth and anyone with any knowledge of this industry will tell you the same. This s why you have never seen a fully-disclosed whole-food product before. They don't want you to know. If they did, they would show you.

What I Want to Make
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I want to make a product that not only contains a vast array of true whole-food, super-food ingredients in significant quantities, but one which clearly lists exactly how much of each ingredient you're getting. There is not a single product on the market like this...ANYWHERE, let alone in the bodybuilding-fitness community.

The problem? It will be expensive...because you would be getting a true whole-food, superfood product, not a bunch of low quality, cheap garbage. As for the exact price...I don't know yet, but if I had to estimate, it would probably cost about 35-40% more than other products in the category. In truth, I don't even think it's accurate to compare them because they're just not the same thing, but I wanted to at least provide a prospective price range.

Do you guys have have any interest in this kind of product?

 

[NutButter]

Could you post the ingredients that you're thinking about using in your product? Honestly, what your describing doesn't interest me but maybe I'm not fully understanding where you're going with this product.

Everything of yours that I've ever used has been top notch so maybe this super foods product would blow me away.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Could you post the ingredients that you're thinking about using in your product? Honestly, what your describing doesn't interest me but maybe I'm not fully understanding where you're going with this product.

Everything of yours that I've ever used has been top notch so maybe this super foods product would blow me away.

I'm not going to list ingredients yet because the product would likely undergo several modifications prior to production based on manufacturing cost.

In short, it would be similar to the other whole-food powders out there, but it would actually consist of numerous, high quality foods. For example, whereas one product might be flavored "chocolate, peanut butter, banana", but use synthetic agents to achieve that flavor, my product would contain those actual foods (real peanut butter, real bananas and real cocao) in quantities significant enough to make the product taste like that, rather than using flavoring agents.

As another example, rather than containing oats as the only significant carb sources (basically all of the products on the market are made up of almost entirely of oats as the carb source, regardless of how many ingredients they list), I might use a blend like this: oats, quinoa, amaranth, purple sweet potatoes, etc.

I wouldn't use ANY beef collagen protein (i.e. bones and connective tissue) as my protein source, but real, complete proteins.

I would use highly quality fat sources, such as MCT and coconut oil, chia seeds, flax seeds, etc.

I would include significant quantities of super fruits, such as maqui berry...and adaptogens, such as medicinal mushroom's, Maca, and a bunch of other things.

In another words, it would be a real food product with additional beneficial ingredients.

It would be high in calories, per serving...for muscle growth, so people could use it as an actual meal replacement product.

Everything would be listed according to its actual quantity.

In conclusion, it would be for those people who like to use weight gainer and whole-food powders, but mine would just be much better.

 

[Smont]

I like the sound of this, would this product contain full servings of fruits and vegetables along with the high quality protein and healthy fats, basically making it a real complete meal replacement in powdered form? Because I'm always look for stuff like that. If so it sounds great, and while I see you put it's going to be more expensive, and that is expected. But do you have a ballpark idea of what it would approximately cost per serving?

Like I couldn't justify paying $2-3 per serving for plain old protein powder, but I absolutely could justify paying that or even slightly more for a complete food powder that meets the basic requirements of a healthy meal. Not that I'm looking to replace food, but it would be nice to have a product like that and in a pinch that you could mix it up and it's good to go without adding things to it.

And if I'm completely misunderstanding your purpose for this product I apologize

 

[ELROCK]

I would buy this. I already use Redcon’s MRE so this sounds like a premiere version of that.

 

[Rad83]

I was always looking for something like this way back when…..

Like you mentioned, I Could never find anything with quality whey and healthy carbs!

 

[Mike Arnold]

I like the sound of this, would this product contain full servings of fruits and vegetables along with the high quality protein and healthy fats, basically making it a real complete meal replacement in powdered form? Because I'm always look for stuff like that. If so it sounds great, and while I see you put it's going to be more expensive, and that is expected. But do you have a ballpark idea of what it would approximately cost per serving?

Like I couldn't justify paying $2-3 per serving for plain old protein powder, but I absolutely could justify paying that or even slightly more for a complete food powder that meets the basic requirements of a healthy meal. Not that I'm looking to replace food, but it would be nice to have a product like that and in a pinch that you could mix it up and it's good to go without adding things to it.

And if I'm completely misunderstanding your purpose for this product I apologize

Yeah, you are correct. That is what it will be; a REAL food replacement powder with worthwhile dosages of all food groups. The only food group I won't be able to include in significant quantities is vegetables...simply because it would make the product taste disgusting. There are a bunch of whole-food powders currently on the market which list a bunch of different vegetables on their label, but they contain literally trace amounts of those vegetables. I'm talking like 1-5 mg of each vegetable. Something like 5 mg would be relevant (but still tiny) if it was a vegetable JUICE powder, but not when it's just dried and powdered vegetables. So, all the vegetables listed on those products are pretty much worthless--almost no benefit. They're only added in there for marketing purposes...not for any real physical benefit.

So, my product wouldn't have very many vegetables in there, but it would have meaningful quantities of everything else--carbs, proteins, healthy fats, super fruits, digestive aides, adaptogens and a bunch of other things with innumerable health benefits.

It would absolutely be a real meal replacement. Actually, it can't even be called a replacement...because it will be real food itself...infused with a BUNCH of additional health benefits.

 

[thebigt]

what kind of shelf life would this have?

 

[Smont]

Yeah, you are correct. That is what it will be; a REAL food replacement powder with worthwhile dosages of all food groups. The only food group I won't be able to include in significant quantities is vegetables...simply because it would make the product taste disgusting. There are a bunch of whole-food powders currently on the market which list a bunch of different vegetables on their label, but they contain literally trace amounts of those vegetables. I'm talking like 1-5 mg of each vegetable. Something like 5 mg would be relevant (but still tiny) if it was a vegetable JUICE powder, but not when it's just dried and powdered vegetables. So, all the vegetables listed on those products are pretty much worthless--almost no benefit. They're only added in there for marketing purposes...not for any real physical benefit.

So, my product wouldn't have very many vegetables in there, but it would have meaningful quantities of everything else--carbs, proteins, healthy fats, super fruits, digestive aides, adaptogens and a bunch of other things with innumerable health benefits.

It would absolutely be a real meal replacement. Actually, it can't even be called a replacement...because it will be real food itself...infused with a BUNCH of additional health benefits.

That sounds fantastic, definitely interested in this product

 

[Smont]

what kind of shelf life would this have?

While I don't know the answer and I obviously can't speak for this product, I do know that dehydrated foods with little to no moisture can last for years, so if this is all in powder form then there would likely be very little to no moisture and I would have to assume that would give it at least the same or a longer shelf life than dehydrated whole foods which can 5+ years. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that.

 

[BCseacow83]

Yes, I understand exactly what you are talking about and have thought the exact same thing about some of these products. Almost to a last, if you really know how to dissect labels, they are not exactly what they present themselves to be. I used to sell a whole ground organic oat powder and it is NOT expensive.

 

[thebigt]

While I don't know the answer and I obviously can't speak for this product, I do know that dehydrated foods with little to no moisture can last for years, so if this is all in powder form then there would likely be very little to no moisture and I would have to assume that would give it at least the same or a longer shelf life than dehydrated whole foods which can 5+ years. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that.

it is always good to have a supply of non-perishable food on hand. i have a considerable supply of both perishable and non-perishable, but i could always use more non-perishable whole food source.

 

[Mike Arnold]

I was always looking for something like this way back when…..

Like you mentioned, I Could never find anything with quality whey and healthy carbs!

See bold above: Exactly. Those products don't exist because they cost so much to make. That's why you almost always see them using beef protein isolate as their primary (and basically only) protein source. It's cheap. The problem is that it is an incomplete protein. If beef protein isolate had been marketed honestly from day one, it wouldn't even be in use today, outside of a VERY small specialty market. Bodybuilders wouldn't be using it. Basically every protein on the market today is superior...and that even includes soy. At least soy, as shitty as it is, still builds muscle. Beef protein isolate can't even do that. The individual MUST consume another protein source along with it in order to make up for the missing essential amino acids...and even then, its bioavailability still sucks. It is, by FAR, the worst protein sold on the bodybuilding market. Like I said previously, if it had been marketed honestly from the beginning, it would no longer be in use.

Oats are a great carb source for most people, but even then, it's just one type of carb...with limited benefits. There are a LOT of other, more expensive carb sources out there that supply a whole slew of other benefits...and some of them even supply a highly bioavailable source of complete protein! Take quinoa, for example. It has a protein efficiency ratio higher than milk! On top of that, its phytonutrient content is much greater than oats. This is common among seed-type carb sources, such as quinoa, amaranth, etc. Technically, those carbs are seeds, not grains, and from all the research I've done, all seed-based carbs are superior to common grains in terms of nutrient composition. They contain complete protein with a very high PER, a far superior phytonutrient profile, and superior fats. So, while oats are great and would absolutely be included in the product I might make, they wouldn't be the only carb source.

I really want to make the product. The only reason I'm hesitating is because this would be a premier meal replacement product...and therefore, outside the price range of your typical young bodybuilder who is still early in his career. Most young bodybuilders don't have much money left over after paying their bills and buying the basic stuff, so even though they might want to use a superior product, they don't have much of a choice. They need to stick to the cheap, but still good stuff--the common bodybuilding basics. But...there is still a considerable segment of the population that would welcome the convenience and benefits of a premiere whole-food meal replacement product.

That is what I'm attempting to assess here.

 

[Mike Arnold]

what kind of shelf life would this have?

The same as any other meal replacement product.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Yes, I understand exactly what you are talking about and have thought the exact same thing about some of these products. Almost to a last, if you really know how to dissect labels, they are not exactly what they present themselves to be. I used to sell a whole ground organic oat powder and it is NOT expensive.

Exactly. Almost all of the whole-food meal placement products are misrepresented. They are marketed as if they are a real, 4 food group meal in powdered form. They are anything BUT that. What they are is a big container of oats with a completely unusable protein source and a fairy-dusting of everything else. That's all they are. That's it. Done. If they were marketed honestly, what you would see is a label showing a big bucket of oats with a bunch of cartilage and bones laying on top. I know that, for some, they just can't...or won't...believe that, but it's true.

Now, I know that some products are a bit better than that, but even the better ones aren't that great, and the best-selling ones are garbage!

Anyway, I am not saying any of this in order to knock any other company, but just revealing the truth of the matter. I wanted to make a meal replacement when I first started my company, but when I found out what it costs to make a REAL meal replacement, and what is actually inside today's whole-food products, I realized that there was no way I could make the product I wanted in a similar price range. The biggest companies are big because they have great marketing...not because they have great products. There's been a few top companies over the decades that actually had the best products in the industry...for a little while, at least, but then, like every other successfully company that came before them, they eventually fade away in terms of quality and innovation. They already made their 10's of millions. After all, lighting rarely strikes in the same place twice.

 

[Rad83]

MA,…I once tried one called “up your mass” and I didnt realize the main source of protein was soy! (This was at least 10 years ago lol)

I tried carnivore beef protein powder, feel for the hype on that too…Tasted horrible and mix-ability was awful.

 

[Kronic]

so Soylent but actually good?

I'm always up for something with liver and heart in it.

 

[Smont]

MA,…I once tried one called “up your mass” and I didnt realize the main source of protein was soy! (This was at least 10 years ago lol)

I tried carnivore beef protein powder, feel for the hype on that too…Tasted horrible and mix-ability was awful.

I used to love the beef protein made by whatever the company that originally sponsored Kai Greene was, was that carnivore? If so I love the taste of that stuff lol. But I didn't know it was made from Bones and collagen or whatever.

I was a huge Kai Greene fan and idk how much money I wasted on their products but I probably brought every one of them

To be clear this was probably 15 years ago, not a mistake I made recently

 

[Rad83]

I used to love the beef protein made by whatever the company that originally sponsored Kai Greene was, was that carnivore? If so I love the taste of that stuff lol. But I didn't know it was made from Bones and collagen or whatever.

I was a huge Kai Greene fan and idk how much money I wasted on their products but I probably brought every one of them

To be clear this was probably 15 years ago, not a mistake I made recently

Haha I feel ya man,…I think it was a Kai green sponsored product! I bought it at gnc and thought “I was eating the equivalent of a couple steaks a day lol” I just remember I couldn’t get it to mix too good…I used to watch Kai’s motivational/introspective speeches while he did his cardio,…this had to have been pre YouTube,…maybe it was the Rx muscle website

 

[Smont]

Haha I feel ya man,…I think it was a Kai green sponsored product! I bought it at gnc and thought “I was eating the equivalent of a couple steaks a day lol” I just remember I couldn’t get it to mix too good…I used to watch Kai’s motivational/introspective speeches while he did his cardio,…this had to have been pre YouTube,…maybe it was the Rx muscle website

Some of the supplements came with Kai Greene DVDs it could have been that. I used to mix the carnivore with red Powerade

 

[Smont]

Sorry Mike, don't mean to derail your thread

 

[Mike Arnold]

MA,…I once tried one called “up your mass” and I didnt realize the main source of protein was soy! (This was at least 10 years ago lol)

I tried carnivore beef protein powder, feel for the hype on that too…Tasted horrible and mix-ability was awful.

I've tried them both. I used to drink Up Your Mass twice a day for 2-3 years. This was like 13 years ago. or so.

But, you are correct that UYM contains soy as its primary protein source, followed by oats as its main (almost only) carb source.

That Carnivore was the WORST tasting protein I ever had. Absolutely disgusting. Horrific. This was all before I came to learn that beef protein isolate contained no actual animal flesh, but just connective tissue and bones. Total garbage.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Sorry Mike, don't mean to derail your thread

No worries, brother. It's fine. Say what you want.

 

[jarrellt67]

I would love a product like this! I spend so much time (and make a big mess) every day making similar shakes with multiple ingredients (half the time only to have one of my kids steal it and have to start over again) that it would be great to just simply scoop from a single product. The convenience would greatly outway any added cost.

 

[patrick25]

Would this be similar to kaged muscle clean meal I was just looking at that but will hold out for now.

 

[BCseacow83]

Would this be similar to kaged muscle clean meal I was just looking at that but will hold out for now.

If you break down that label it's exactly what Mike is talking about sans the beef protein. The "natural flavor and gum blend" comes before the vege/fruit blend. Based on the amount of fiber, which the gum blend would contribute to in addition to the fiber in the oats and you are getting trace amounts. Quinoa comes after oats but before MCT and not counting the fats in oats we can guess the MCT to be about 4 grams, so there is about 4 grams of Quinoa, whoa!!! LOL at sweet potato being part of the vege/fruit blend and comes after kale. Sunflower is also part of the vege/fruit blend as well lol.

Look there is nothing wrong with some whey and oats but let's call a spade a spade if that is the case.

 

[Mike Arnold]

MA,…I once tried one called “up your mass” and I didnt realize the main source of protein was soy! (This was at least 10 years ago lol)

I tried carnivore beef protein powder, feel for the hype on that too…Tasted horrible and mix-ability was awful.

Yep, I've tried both myself. I tried Up Your Mass about 15 years ago. I tasted good, but yes, soy was the primary protein source. Carnivore was possibly he worst tasting protein I ever had. Well, at least since the year 2000. There was some rancid stuff back in the 80's and early 90's. Just awful. Carnivore is certainly in competition for one of the Top 10 worst tasting protein ever made, though (at least the blue raspberry flavor, which is what I had). I drank it twice and then gave it away.