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Anxiety and how to help calm it

Whacked said:
This stuff seems very interesting. I have read, however, that the w/d from consistent use can be awful. Also, as a mu-opioid agonist, constipation will come knocking. Lol. (In many not all).
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Withdrawal isn't bad I don't think, this is the first I've heard of it. It does tend to poop out though, meaning its effects almost always wear off at a certain point. This is definitely a drug that needs to be cycled.

I've tried 3 long cycles of it over the past 4 years. I love it, no sides from it at all!
 
What's so interesting about Stablon (tianeptine) is how fast it starts working, how great and "open" (positive) it makes you feel, how it energizes you, but cuts anxiety like a knife.
 
A word of warning though, stablon shouldn't be combined with many other nootropic type supplements or drugs, have to be careful. Absolutely no mixing with deprenyl (selegaline), no mixing with buspar. It is something that should be used on it's own. There are many forums that talk about it though, so if you're ever wondering about combinations or safety if you're taking something else, it's more than likely been talked about online already.
 
kisaj said:
I bought both bulk powder and capsules and I will say that the taste of the powder is horrible. Only a tiny 12mg scoop leaves a taste that I cannot get out of my mouth even after a scoop of peanut butter. Caps may be the way to go, but I want to assess both companies.
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It does taste horrible, i always take it with cranberry juice...but the good thing is, it actually works, and works fast. I was in a stressed mood this morning when the ex refused to let me see my daughter this weekend (was meant to have her as per court order)......took a does of tianeptine, and feel far better considering.
 
Gutterpump said:
What's so interesting about Stablon (tianeptine) is how fast it starts working, how great and "open" (positive) it makes you feel, how it energizes you, but cuts anxiety like a knife.
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Exactly, in fact it works so well it will probably get banned (like most good things).
 
Following up- day one was disappointing as I was completely wiped out by late afternoon and my second dose. It really made me tired and cloudy mentally to the point that I just had to go to sleep early and dust it off. It reminded me of piracetam and the emotion dullness it brings on. Day 2 was a little better with regards to tiredness, but I didn't have a lot of motivation. Mentally, I was really feeling disconnected and dull almost like how lithium ornate feels. I decided that combined with the terrible taste and this feeling, I had to stop the powder. I know it was very short, but I can't be a walking zombie and that was the only thing that changed. I decided to start the caps and evaluate and man oh man, what a difference!

About an hour after taking the first cap, my mind just "opened" and I was really feeling like talking to random people and just engaging in conversation. I dosed the same 12mg 3x and by the end of the day I realized that I was involved in a lot of high stress activities at work that I just breezed through and hadn't dwelled on the circumstances and outcomes at all. Interesting to say the least. Day 2 had nothing on the plate for the most part, but I just felt really good over all. No stresses or concerns in the back of my mind thinking about the upcoming week and really mentally energized and wanting to do something. The best way to describe it is clarity.

So, very short term I am finding this really intriguing and look forward to this week coming up. I am also surprised at how quickly this comes on as I expected at least a couple weeks of buildup.
 
This is stablon/tianeptine you are taking? I've never heard of it causing mental dullness, always quite the opposite! It's a very energizing drug. Maybe it was just due to being overtired/wiped out?

I've been using the bulk powder and it works as well as the caps for me. I always have to dose over 50mg / day though. Usually 25mg per dose for first two in the day, 12mg for 3rd dose of the day.

I suppose you're always guaranteed of quality with the caps though.
 
Yeah, tianeptine. It seems to follow the same experience as a lot of people when I read up on reviews and experiences to be honest. But, the caps are a different story and align with what you report as your experience. Really mentally energizing and awake.
 
kisaj said:
Yeah, tianeptine. It seems to follow the same experience as a lot of people when I read up on reviews and experiences to be honest. But, the caps are a different story and align with what you report as your experience. Really mentally energizing and awake.
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Are the caps/powder you are using made by the same brand?
 
GreenMachineX said:
Gotcha. What brands of those 2 do you use?

I'm not over 40, but have kicked around the idea of getting sublingual dhea and preg to compliment my TRT, but I'm waiting until my Androgel is at the highest dose my doctor will provide, so another couple months.
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Try switching to test e or c instead of androgel because with androgel you have a high conversion to DHT and high DHT can worsen anxiety
 
kisaj said:
Yeah, tianeptine. It seems to follow the same experience as a lot of people when I read up on reviews and experiences to be honest. But, the caps are a different story and align with what you report as your experience. Really mentally energizing and awake.
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It's possible that we are using bulk tianeptine powders from different sources.

Btw, how much Lithium Orotate were you using in the past when you noticed those symptoms? I've tried out 120mg twice a day, and also 3x per day but didn't notice those sides. I have read that it's made some people feel that way though.
 
Gutterpump said:
Withdrawal isn't bad I don't think, this is the first I've heard of it. It does tend to poop out though, meaning its effects almost always wear off at a certain point. This is definitely a drug that needs to be cycled.

I've tried 3 long cycles of it over the past 4 years. I love it, no sides from it at all!
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I hear ya brother. I'm a bit of a paranoid mofo so I googled "tianeptine withdrawal" and there are some scary stores and they are plentiful.

Additionally, the potential for libido decrease (via D2), constipation (just like any other opioid agonist) and withdrawal as mentioned above make me too nervous to try it.

It stinks because I am reading this is the ultimate mood booster.

You are wise to cycle it. ;)
 
.....this stuff might be great for counteracting the horrible mental sides of TREN though lol
 
Whacked said:
I hear ya brother. I'm a bit of a paranoid mofo so I googled "tianeptine withdrawal" and there are some scary stores and they are plentiful.

Additionally, the potential for libido decrease (via D2), constipation (just like any other opioid agonist) and withdrawal as mentioned above make me too nervous to try it.

It stinks because I am reading this is the ultimate mood booster.

You are wise to cycle it. ;)
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Definitely no effect on libido, if not libido increase! Dopamine signalling is improved on tianeptine. In fact, it's cousin (amineptine) was previously used for people with anorgasmia. It is no longer on the market though.
 
I don't know Gutterpump, I can already see the potential for abuse on this stuff. It completely wipes out worries very quickly and for anyone that has an addictive personality, I could see wanting to chase this. It is definitely a feel good.

I would say that due to the very quick effects, I would think that it could be taken as needed and not every day so as to avoid the possible abuse potential and any withdrawal.
 
kisaj said:
I don't know Gutterpump, I can already see the potential for abuse on this stuff. It completely wipes out worries very quickly and for anyone that has an addictive personality, I could see wanting to chase this. It is definitely a feel good.

I would say that due to the very quick effects, I would think that it could be taken as needed and not every day so as to avoid the possible abuse potential and any withdrawal.
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True, it works well, but it will not really illicit a 'high' no matter the dose. Maybe mild euphoria at best. By abuse potential, I meant there is really no risk of people abusing high doses of this while trying to find a high.

With that being said, I wish it was something I could take year round and not have to cycle without it's effects diminishing. it is something that when prescribed, is meant to be taken 3x a day, everyday, which is basically all day everyday - this is not abuse :)
 
Whacked said:
Really? More info please !! :D
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Lithium orotate has a plethora of benefits, but basically, it should prevent anyone from having outbursts / mania by preventing over-excitation.

I like sharing this link when talking about Lithium Orotate:
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Thanks GP. I would love to run Tren again one day but mannnnn I was a depressed pisssed off at the world DIKKK
 
Whacked said:
Thanks GP. I would love to run Tren again one day but mannnnn I was a depressed pisssed off at the world DIKKK
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Ahhh man that's just how I am normally each day lol jk

I've been scared to touch Tren, but check out this thread that changed my mind:
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Gutterpump said:
Ahhh man that's just how I am normally each day lol jk

I've been scared to touch Tren, but check out this thread that changed my mind:
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Yeah. I'm playing around w the idea. We'll see. lol.
 
Gutterpump said:
It's possible that we are using bulk tianeptine powders from different sources.

Btw, how much Lithium Orotate were you using in the past when you noticed those symptoms? I've tried out 120mg twice a day, and also 3x per day but didn't notice those sides. I have read that it's made some people feel that way though.
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How long did you take lithium orotate and what effects did you notice?
 
I know you weren't asking me, but I took it for 3-4 weeks and it completely deadens all senses. I could see it being a viable option for someone with depression or severe anxiety, but for mild cases or occasional need, I think it is way too much. So far tianeptine has been the exact opposite. You just get a sense of feeling like you can tackle anything and have no concerns.
 
kisaj said:
I know you weren't asking me, but I took it for 3-4 weeks and it completely deadens all senses. I could see it being a viable option for someone with depression or severe anxiety, but for mild cases or occasional need, I think it is way too much. So far tianeptine has been the exact opposite. You just get a sense of feeling like you can tackle anything and have no concerns.
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Considered my current situation, something that deadens all senses sounds perfect. For depression and anxiety, would you say lithium is stronger than something like Ashwagandha (which so far has been the best for both)?
 
kisaj said:
I know you weren't asking me, but I took it for 3-4 weeks and it completely deadens all senses. I could see it being a viable option for someone with depression or severe anxiety, but for mild cases or occasional need, I think it is way too much. So far tianeptine has been the exact opposite. You just get a sense of feeling like you can tackle anything and have no concerns.
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How much lithium orotate were you taking? I didn't notice anything from it like you experienced. It definitely didn't deaden my senses whatsoever, nor effect energy levels / motivation / etc in a negative way. Were you taking a lot? I took the regular 120mg dose but also tried up to 2 times that amount. I took it for 3 months last year.
 
jarrellt67 said:
Considered my current situation, something that deadens all senses sounds perfect. For depression and anxiety, would you say lithium is stronger than something like Ashwagandha (which so far has been the best for both)?
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Ashwagandha is an adaptogen. I wouldn't really compare it with Lithium orotate.
Lithium is definitely much more potent and works completely differently.

Ashwagandha (to me) seems very mild in it's actions. I take it regularly as part of an adrenal formula I'm taking.
 
jarrellt67 said:
How long did you take lithium orotate and what effects did you notice?
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I took it for 3 months last year when I was trying out DTA for the first time and heard it might have some bad mental effects (which it didn't for me - due to the lithium or not, who knows). I tend to become more impulsive, edgy and anxiety can raise for me when on any strongly androgenic substances. I didn't really have any impulsive/anxious moments while taking it.
 
Gutterpump said:
Ashwagandha is an adaptogen. I wouldn't really compare it with Lithium orotate.
Lithium is definitely much more potent and works completely differently.

Ashwagandha (to me) seems very mild in it's actions. I take it regularly as part of an adrenal formula I'm taking.
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Thanks. I'm going to have to give lithium a try (actually have some being delivered today). Ashwagandha (and other herbs) have worked pretty well with reducing anxiety and depression but I'd like to try something stronger (and non-SSRI...which I've tried in the past with very negative results).
 
jarrellt67 said:
Thanks. I'm going to have to give lithium a try (actually have some being delivered today). Ashwagandha (and other herbs) have worked pretty well with reducing anxiety and depression but I'd like to try something stronger (and non-SSRI...which I've tried in the past with very negative results).
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For depression & anxiety, stablon (tianeptine) has by far been the best for me! Lithium orotate might be good for you though, worth giving it a shot. For most people it's effects can be fairly benign and it can be taken very long term.
 
jarrellt67 said:
Considered my current situation, something that deadens all senses sounds perfect. For depression and anxiety, would you say lithium is stronger than something like Ashwagandha (which so far has been the best for both)?
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Like Gutterpump mentioned, you can't really compare them. Ashwagandha has numerous benefits and I think it is great for general stress reduction, which can cascade down and eventually cause depression and anxiety, so very valuable. Lithium ornate was like a sledgehammer and made me feel dazed and just out of it. I was only taking 10mg 3x a day. I don't need anything like it, so I dropped it.
 
Gutterpump said:
For depression & anxiety, stablon (tianeptine) has by far been the best for me! Lithium orotate might be good for you though, worth giving it a shot. For most people it's effects can be fairly benign and it can be taken very long term.
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Tianeptine was going to be my next supplement to try but the potential for tolerance and addiction has made me leery to try it (addiction issues are strong in my family).
 
kisaj said:
Like Gutterpump mentioned, you can't really compare them. Ashwagandha has numerous benefits and I think it is great for general stress reduction, which can cascade down and eventually cause depression and anxiety, so very valuable. Lithium ornate was like a sledgehammer and made me feel dazed and just out of it. I was only taking 10mg 3x a day. I don't need anything like it, so I dropped it.
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Hmmm...maybe I'll just try stacking 5 mg of lithium with 300 mg of ashwagandha (ksm-66) twice each day and see how that works (unless anyone knows of any possible negative interactions between the two).
 
jarrellt67 said:
Hmmm...maybe I'll just try stacking 5 mg of lithium with 300 mg of ashwagandha (ksm-66) twice each day and see how that works (unless anyone knows of any possible negative interactions between the two).
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Keep in mind Lithium Orotate is available in 120mg tabs for the most part. 100mg of Lithium Orotate yields 3.83 mg of elemental lithium.
 
jarrellt67 said:
Tianeptine was going to be my next supplement to try but the potential for tolerance and addiction has made me leery to try it (addiction issues are strong in my family).
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These claims are very overblown. Tianeptine is not like benzos. It is meant to be take everyday, 3x a day, whereas benzos are only really taken as needed but can create a certain 'need' and addiction. There is no official warning from the manufacturer of Stablon (tianeptine) about addiction or withdrawal. I and many others I know have taken this without any issues whatsoever. There is a HUGE thread about Stablon (tianeptine) over on the Brainmeta forum. Best possible place for research/info on Stablon, with a few neurologists over there as well.
 
Gutterpump said:
These claims are very overblown. Tianeptine is not like benzos. It is meant to be take everyday, 3x a day, whereas benzos are only really taken as needed but can create a certain 'need' and addiction. There is no official warning from the manufacturer of Stablon (tianeptine) about addiction or withdrawal. I and many others I know have taken this without any issues whatsoever. There is a HUGE thread about Stablon (tianeptine) over on the Brainmeta forum. Best possible place for research/info on Stablon, with a few neurologists over there as well.
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Cool. I'll check out that thread. Thanks.
 
Not sure if we're allowed to link to other forums but since it's a forum about neuroscience, etc, why not.
Here is the thread in question :) :

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LifeMirage is the resident neuroscientist over there and he claims no addictive qualities to Stablon.
 
Gutterpump said:
Keep in mind Lithium Orotate is available in 120mg tabs for the most part. 100mg of Lithium Orotate yields 3.83 mg of elemental lithium.
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I think the labeling is confusing because the majority of products just state that they contain 5-10mg lithium orotate and then some others state 120mg+, which yields 5mg of lithium orotate.
 
Okay, I've taken about 5 mg of lithium (120 mg of lithium orotate) three times now (dinner, breakfast and lunch) and while it's too early for definitive results, it seems to really calm my nerves. I don't notice any positive effects on mood but I guess that would probably take longer. One negative I've already noticed is kind of a "brain fog" feeling. Hopefully that will go away. I may switch to just taking it once each day (before bed with magnesium) and continue with ashwagandha during the day since it's been working so well for anxiety.
 
That brain fog is what I am talking about with my experience except that for me it affected my emotions and that was a horrible feeling. I've read that it does subside in people that experience that, but with a wife and little kids, I didn't feel like waiting.
 
kisaj said:
That brain fog is what I am talking about with my experience except that for me it affected my emotions and that was a horrible feeling. I've read that it does subside in people that experience that, but with a wife and little kids, I didn't feel like waiting.
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It made you more emotional or less emotional? Know any nootropics that blunt emotions?
 
kisaj said:
That brain fog is what I am talking about with my experience except that for me it affected my emotions and that was a horrible feeling. I've read that it does subside in people that experience that, but with a wife and little kids, I didn't feel like waiting.
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With the brain fog is some emotional blunting. However, that's a positive for me as I often tend to cycle quickly between being happy and angry...very short-tempered. I'm also hoping it will help with persistent negative thoughts that tend to affect my mood and sleep on a regular basis.
 
It made me emotionless and it was a really bad feeling. Some report Aniracetam doing that, but I haven't noticed it. It does make you more assertive and I imagine that can be construed as not caring, but I see it more as confident.
 
jarrellt67 said:
With the brain fog is some emotional blunting. However, that's a positive for me as I often tend to cycle quickly between being happy and angry...very short-tempered. I'm also hoping it will help with persistent negative thoughts that tend to affect my mood and sleep on a regular basis.
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I understand. I tend to be the opposite and generally always positive and upbeat, so when that goes away it sucks for me and those around me.
 
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