Andros: A User's Guide

Melbar Kasom said:
Good to know. I assume the products will be available in UK as well, right?
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Definitely! They will be at your favorite uk retailers not long after the first of the year.
 
Melbar Kasom said:
Great news. Any info about the delivery system. I really like the FRL 4 AD in my opinon better then plane 4 AD. Will it be something like this?
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I can't discuss the delivery system in too much detail but know that it is a patented pharmaceutical delivery system that have been proven effective with many different compounds. Not to mention double to triple the dose of all the other "enhanced" andros out there now. This is the pinnacle of dhea products and they should be extremely effective.
 
Aha, i am thinking i will order a bunch of the 4 AD version then. It works usefull as supplement for many, recently banned products.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Well, my testosterone came back this time mid 400's (clean shaved Androgel application), hematocrit 2 points above range, and of my AST and ALT one was a point or 2 high and the other was like 100 points higher. The doctor seemed only mildly concerned about that. But her recommendation was to get milk thistle, start tapering the Androgel, see their dietician for a detox program, and give blood when possible. Wtf! Spent $500 on this appointment too. Why can't I find a real progressive TRT doctor? It's either a mainstream idiot endocrinologist or a neo-hippie BS doctor. According to this one's website they were supposed to be legit too. So apparently SARMS do affect liver enzymes also.
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Anything that's going to be in your system for a long time an resistant to hepatic breakdown is going to have an impact of some kind. IMO an it makes sense to me.
 
I got two bottles of LG science Liquid 1 Andro and I was going to take the recommend dose of 4ml a day. I have read that 1 Andro will not cause any side effects including hair loss because it does not convert to DHT. I was going to run this for 8 weeks by itself because I don't want any hair loss. I'm 37 years old and prone to MPB so I am concerned about losing my hair with this product. can anyone tell me if I don't abuse the recommended dose whether I'll be fine or not. Any feedback from anyone that has taken just 1 Andro alone and if they experienced any side effects. Thank you
 
pwg112 said:
I got two bottles of LG science Liquid 1 Andro and I was going to take the recommend dose of 4ml a day. I have read that 1 Andro will not cause any side effects including hair loss because it does not convert to DHT. I was going to run this for 8 weeks by itself because I don't want any hair loss. I'm 37 years old and prone to MPB so I am concerned about losing my hair with this product. can anyone tell me if I don't abuse the recommended dose whether I'll be fine or not. Any feedback from anyone that has taken just 1 Andro alone and if they experienced any side effects. Thank you
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Just because it has no dht conversion doesn't mean it won't increase hair shedding. Your hair thinning is a definite possibility with any hormone especially if you are prone to mpb.
 
pwg112 said:
I got two bottles of LG science Liquid 1 Andro and I was going to take the recommend dose of 4ml a day. I have read that 1 Andro will not cause any side effects including hair loss because it does not convert to DHT. I was going to run this for 8 weeks by itself because I don't want any hair loss. I'm 37 years old and prone to MPB so I am concerned about losing my hair with this product. can anyone tell me if I don't abuse the recommended dose whether I'll be fine or not. Any feedback from anyone that has taken just 1 Andro alone and if they experienced any side effects. Thank you
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yates84 said:
Just because it has no dht conversion doesn't mean it won't increase hair shedding. Your hair thinning is a definite possibility with any hormone especially if you are prone to mpb.
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This ^
Also, if you still decide to do the cycle, get some DHT blocking shampoo/ketoconazole and sitosterol to prevent hair loss. Not sure how much it helps/protects the hair line but better safe(er) than sorry I guess.
 
Can anyone give some comparisons/insights/experiences for these andros as compared to sarms (osta, lgd, or rad), in terms of their effects on size and strength vs negative side effects?

I know this is a bit backwards as sarms are the newer, less studied compounds, but I've only ever cycled sarms and have no other point of reference. I'm fully stocked up on my preferred sarms for the next few years, but considering whether or not to add some andros to the shelf.
 
warpyfunch said:
Can anyone give some comparisons/insights/experiences for these andros as compared to sarms (osta, lgd, or rad), in terms of their effects on size and strength vs negative side effects?

I know this is a bit backwards as sarms are the newer, less studied compounds, but I've only ever cycled sarms and have no other point of reference. I'm fully stocked up on my preferred sarms for the next few years, but considering whether or not to add some andros to the shelf.
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Epiandro and 4 andro would both be great test bases to add to a sarm cycle. You won't see too much for gains out of 4 andro or epiandro but strength is pretty good, similar to lgd imo. 1 andro is going to be much stronger than any of the sarms and should produce more gains in a shorter time. Side effects are going to be a little stronger with the andros than sarms, hair shedding and lethargy are common sides. Andros aren't selective like sarms so prostate problems are possible as well.
 
yates84 said:
Epiandro and 4 andro would both be great test bases to add to a sarm cycle. You won't see too much for gains out of 4 andro or epiandro but strength is pretty good, similar to lgd imo. 1 andro is going to be much stronger than any of the sarms and should produce more gains in a shorter time. Side effects are going to be a little stronger with the andros than sarms, hair shedding and lethargy are common sides. Andros aren't selective like sarms so prostate problems are possible as well.
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so basically we can try minimise side effects of andros by using less andro dosage and adding some sarms right? I'm thinking 8 weeks 1 andro 300 mg/day plus 8 mg LGD on top of this is that good idea?
 
bobi593 said:
so basically we can try minimise side effects of andros by using less andro dosage and adding some sarms right? I'm thinking 8 weeks 1 andro 300 mg/day plus 8 mg LGD on top of this is that good idea?
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You would definitely want some sort of test base with that combo since 1 andro and lgd are known for lethargy. The sarms won't minimize any side effects but I don't see a problem adding them in. To be very honest, these compounds are very mild and should have minimal side effects for most users. I usually speak in worse case scenario just so everyone is aware of all the potential side effects.
 
yates84 said:
You would definitely want some sort of test base with that combo since 1 andro and lgd are known for lethargy. The sarms won't minimize any side effects but I don't see a problem adding them in. To be very honest, these compounds are very mild and should have minimal side effects for most users. I usually speak in worse case scenario just so everyone is aware of all the potential side effects.
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if sarms punching the same receptors as andro logically thinking the effects of this combination should be way stronger ???
 
yates84 said:
What other ph/ds have you used in the past? Did they cause any hair loss?
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i actually never use ph I used real gear 2 cycle 10 years ago d-Bol.... deca/winstrol with small dosage of test prop and 6 months ago osta 12 weeks up 25 mg ( no hair problems)
 
xtyler said:
If you experience DHT-related sides (not everybody does), you should (IMO) address them very specifically.
Acne/oily skin? Tea Tree oil soap or salicylic acid soap.
Hair thinning? Nizoral or Regenepure shampoo.
Difficult urine flow? Last generation alpha blockers.


...or just lower the dose and/or use low androgenic compounds :p
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bobi593 said:
i actually never use ph I used real gear 2 cycle 10 years ago d-Bol.... deca/winstrol with small dosage of test prop and 6 months ago osta 12 weeks up 25 mg ( no hair problems)
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^^^
 
yates84 said:
Epiandro and 4 andro would both be great test bases to add to a sarm cycle. You won't see too much for gains out of 4 andro or epiandro but strength is pretty good, similar to lgd imo. 1 andro is going to be much stronger than any of the sarms and should produce more gains in a shorter time. Side effects are going to be a little stronger with the andros than sarms, hair shedding and lethargy are common sides. Andros aren't selective like sarms so prostate problems are possible as well.
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Good info, thanks.
 
pwg112 said:
I got two bottles of LG science Liquid 1 Andro and I was going to take the recommend dose of 4ml a day. I have read that 1 Andro will not cause any side effects including hair loss because it does not convert to DHT. I was going to run this for 8 weeks by itself because I don't want any hair loss. I'm 37 years old and prone to MPB so I am concerned about losing my hair with this product. can anyone tell me if I don't abuse the recommended dose whether I'll be fine or not. Any feedback from anyone that has taken just 1 Andro alone and if they experienced any side effects. Thank you
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This. I too want to know how it is on the hair. I already use that pura DHT blocking shampoo.
 
CorpKiller said:
This. I too want to know how it is on the hair. I already use that pura DHT blocking shampoo.
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Hair shedding is a possibility especially if you are prone to mpb
 
bobi593 said:
i actually never use ph I used real gear 2 cycle 10 years ago d-Bol.... deca/winstrol with small dosage of test prop and 6 months ago osta 12 weeks up 25 mg ( no hair problems)
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How did the osta treat yyou?
 
DonnieM said:
Mkay. Thanks you! Maybe I will stick with just Stano atm and bump up da dozage.
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4 andro and stano is going to make an awesome base, the dht and testosterone combination should have you feeling excellent! I will definitely be running this combination in the near future
 
Nice that sounds good I was gonna start a 1,4 cycle but pushed it back waiting to see what OL had in store. Gonna add in epiandro to it as well, hopefully if they're dosed and priced right I'll run these over other brands.
 
StormBringer0 said:
Nice that sounds good I was gonna start a 1,4 cycle but pushed it back waiting to see what OL had in store. Gonna add in epiandro to it as well, hopefully if they're dosed and priced right I'll run these over other brands.
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We will have all 3 and they will definitely be worth the wait.
 
This may have been covered already but I didn't read every post. What is the recommended 4 andro dosing when stacked as a test base? 330 mg /day?
 
pretty comprehensive writeup on the compounds. But, I wouldn't discount transdermal delivery for these types of ph's. complexing with cyclodextrin has been awesome for a couple of the epiandrosterone products I've used. But, I still think transdermal is my favorite delivery for non methylated compounds.
 
yates84 said:
In the world of supplementation, Andros reign supreme as today's legal prohormones of choice. For those who are unaware of these compounds, the term Andro specifically pertains to the naturally occurring DHEA metabolites known as Epiandrosterone, 1-Androsterone and 4-Androsterone. There are a wide variety of Andros available utilizing different delivery methods, each with claims regarding their bioavailability, compound half-life, and so on. It can be confusing, even overwhelming, when trying to choose a product that meets your needs. So let's try to clear up some of that confusion by reviewing the different delivery methods currently available.

Let's begin with Cyclodextrins. Cyclodextrins use a carbohydrate-enveloping effect with compounds. The idea is that they are complexed in a structure which makes them water soluble. And they are in general designed to be taken sublingually (placed under the tongue to dissolve) with the intention to bypass first pass metabolism (liver breakdown). In 2002 a paper published in the Journal of Applied Physiology showed that a cyclodextrin complex of 4-Androstenediol did indeed result in increases in serum testosterone levels. However 4-Androstenediol, commonly referred to as 4-AD, converts directly to testosterone (1-step conversion) and since been banned in the United States. Now the legal prohormone 4-Androsterone, which converts to 4-Androstenedione and 4-Androstenediol and then convert to Testosterone (2-step conversion), is being seen released in the same manner of delivery along with 1-Androsterone and Epiandrosterone. But there's an issue, they are completely different compounds. The difference between 1-step and 2-step conversion prohormones is significant enough that we cannot assume that the results of a study done on a 1-step conversion prohormone will translate to a 2-step conversion prohormone. There are also claims that because of the limited surface area, the amount of prohormone that can be absorbed at one time sublingually appears to be 25mg or less, which is an extremely low dosage. As of 2015, there are still no studies proving the effectiveness of Cyclodextrins in delivering Andros and causing real-world results in body composition or performance.

So, let's move on to Liposomes. Liposomes act in a similar manner to Cyclodextrins, but instead of using a carbohydrate-enveloping effect it uses a fat-enveloping effect, they fold upon themselves, giving a shell with a water-soluble exterior and an oil soluble interior (somewhat similarly to cyclodextrins). When a liposome is ingested, it passes through the stomach and into the small intestine where it comes into contact with the non-polar intestinal cell lining, merging with it. When this happens, the compound trapped in the interior of the liposome is transferred into the intestinal lining and from there it travels into the portal circulation to the liver. Liposomes and Cyclodextrins work very similarly; you put the compound in a water-soluble shell, and then deposit it in the lipid-like surface of the oral or intestinal mucosa. However, the flux between the cavity of the cyclodextrin molecule and the mucosa is far more efficient and faster than liposomes. A liposome must first merge and dissolve into the mucosal cell membrane before its contents are delivered. In contrast, the cyclodextrin molecule undergoes no such interaction at the mucosal membrane, and does not disintegrate; it simply instantaneously delivers its payload. An industry expert has commented in the past that that single-layered liposomes are great oral products, and may also be effective sublingually (under the tongue) but likely don't work as well as cyclodextrin-complexed products. As of 2015, there are still no studies proving the effectiveness of Liposomes in delivering Andros and causing real-world results in body composition or performance.

Now let's discuss Esters. Adding an ester group to a compound makes it less soluble in water and more soluble in fat. The main claimed benefit of adding such an ester is potential lymphatic delivery (through the small intestine into the lymphatic system and thus bypassing the liver) for overall improved bioavailability. Whether or not this works for Andros has yet to be proven. There are a number of different esters, for example the enanthate ester, which you may see hidden in a compounds nomenclature as "enanthoxy" if the enanthate ester is attached to an oxygen atom. Now it’s worth pointing out that esters varying in their length, and due to this, take up a varying percentage of the compounds weight that is essentially inactive, resulting in less active hormone milligram for milligram. A good way of illustrating how different esters result in different amounts of active compounds is by looking at various esterified testosterone preparations. In this instance, the esters Enanthate, Caprylate and Undecanoate:

-100mg Testosterone Enanthate = 71.99mg Testosterone (28.01mg Enanthate)
-100mg Testosterone Caprylate = 69.56mg Testosterone (30.44mg Caprylate)
-100mg Testosterone Undecanoate = 65.15mg Testosterone (34.85mg Undecanoate)

As you can see around 1/3rd of the compound is inactive, and though these numbers don't necessarily reflect those of esterified Andros the principal is the same, less Andros by weight. There is also a misconception that orally ingested esterified compounds will match intramuscularly injected esterified compounds in the ability to provide a sustained release, but this is simply not the case. For example, an intramuscular injection of Testosterone Undecanoate provides a sustained release of Testosterone into the bloodstream for up to 10 weeks, but if orally administered it is eliminated from the body in just 3 to 4 hours. To what extent, if any, esterification improves bioavailability or half-life has yet to be proven, while increasing cost and providing lower doses of the active hormone by weight. Just as with Cyclodextrins and Liposomes, as of 2015, there are still no studies proving the effectiveness of Esterification in delivering Andros and causing real-world results in body composition or performance.

And finally, let's talk about free-form Andros. Free-form Andros are unmodified, no cyclodextrin, no liposome, and no ester, not delivered sublingually (under the tongue) but taken orally (swallowed). A paper published by West Texas A&M University, the California Baptist University and the University of Texas at Austin looked at the effects of 330mg free-form 1-Androsterone given daily for 4 weeks to 9 males with an average of 5 years of experience in resistance training and an average body fat of 13%. During the following 4 weeks, the subjects participated in 16 sessions of structured resistance-training. The results showed that the 9 males had gained an average of 10.4lbs (4.7kg) lean mass, lost over 4.4lbs (2kg) fat, and had a total load strength increase of 161lbs (73.2kg). No conflicts of interest, financial or otherwise, were declared by the author(s), and the research was supported by the West Texas A&M University Kilgore Research Center. Thus it can be extrapolated that this unbiased paper shows free-form 1-Androsterone to be a highly effective precursor to its target hormone 1-Testosterone, and is capable of eliciting highly favorable changes in body composition. As of 2015, it is still the only study proving the effectiveness of Andros in causing real-world results in body composition and performance, and this study specifically used high dosage Free-Form in delivering Andros, thus being the most logical choice when choosing a method of delivery.

So when choosing an Andro product to help you reach your goals, ask yourself, do you want a product that is backed my theories and hypotheticals, or by science? Does it look good on paper, with no real-world proof to convince you one way or another, or is it scientifically backed to give you the results you're looking for?
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Very impressing man:-)
 
yates84 what's the longest someone should run epiando and 4ad as a test base? I'm thinking like 12 weeks stacked with osta and maybe through lgd in the last 8 weeks
 
YouBet33 said:
yates84 what's the longest someone should run epiando and 4ad as a test base? I'm thinking like 12 weeks stacked with osta and maybe through lgd in the last 8 weeks
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I would just run it the last 8 weeks with the lgd. 12 weeks is a little long for the andros imo.
 
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