Andros: A User's Guide

xtyler said:
I'm not aware of any crossreaction but anything is possible. That being said, your TRT sucks if it keeps you at 155-350. Find a new doc!
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I know, right? My hematocrit keeps climbing though. After these last results he said to reduce by 1 pump because my hct was a half a point above range (even though my labs were at 155!). Fired him! I've found a new doctor that I saw last week.
yates84 said:
I'm interested in what his next bloodwork says with no epiandro again. Could be the Androgel just hadn't reached full saturation and during the test with the epiandro the Androgel had finally reached full saturation. Too many variables with the info we have. GreenMachineX when do you have more bloods lined up?
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Just saw a new doctor last week and she did bloods; I should have the results and a new TRT plan tomorrow.
 
Ok, so OL is coming out with some DHEA products, awesome. Seriously. And while it is correct to say that there isn't a University study on Transdermal or Sub-Lingual, it was almost an act of God that West Texas A&M did that 1-Andro study at all, so it's not like these things are common research targets.

Transdermal works well enough for there to be an FDA approved Testosterone product called Androgel. I also believe goodvibes used Primeval Transdermal to good effect. Then there is the love of Dermacrine. These may not be Macintosh Apples to Macintosh Apples, but I think we're still talking apples.

As far as Sub-Lingual - I personally gained well using AMS RDe.

The above makes no argument as to value, just delivery effectiveness.

Just wanted to get that out there. It is 100% correct to say that if you want a 1-DHEA product that is backed by University research, than orally swallowed capsules are the way to go - I agree. If that product happens to come dosed properly with enough capsules per bottle - heck yeah. I'd love a race to the bottom :)
 
GreenMachineX said:
I know, right? My hematocrit keeps climbing though. After these last results he said to reduce by 1 pump because my hct was a half a point above range (even though my labs were at 155!). Fired him! I've found a new doctor that I saw last week.

Just saw a new doctor last week and she did bloods; I should have the results and a new TRT plan tomorrow.
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Cool. Keep us updated!
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Ok, so OL is coming out with some DHEA products, awesome. Seriously. And while it is correct to say that there isn't a University study on Transdermal or Sub-Lingual, it was almost an act of God that West Texas A&M did that 1-Andro study at all, so it's not like these things are common research targets.

Transdermal works well enough for there to be an FDA approved Testosterone product called Androgel. I also believe goodvibes used Primeval Transdermal to good effect. Then there is the love of Dermacrine. These may not be Macintosh Apples to Macintosh Apples, but I think we're still talking apples.

As far as Sub-Lingual - I personally gained well using AMS RDe.

The above makes no argument as to value, just delivery effectiveness.

Just wanted to get that out there. It is 100% correct to say that if you want a 1-DHEA product that is backed by University research, than orally swallowed capsules are the way to go - I agree. If that product happens to come dosed properly with enough capsules per bottle - heck yeah. I'd love a race to the bottom :)
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You are 100% correct that there are alternative means of dosing these dhea isomers. Yes, OL is about to release some new dhea products that are dosed properly and you won't have to buy 10 bottles for a decent cycle. But we went further than that! I can't give too many details right now but these products will turn the current dhea market on its head. It will be true OL fashion.
 
yates84 said:
You are 100% correct that there are alternative means of dosing these dhea isomers. Yes, OL is about to release some new dhea products that are dosed properly and you won't have to buy 10 bottles for a decent cycle. But we went further than that! I can't give too many details right now but these products will turn the current dhea market on its head. It will be true OL fashion.
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Hopefully some cyclodextrin/absorption enhancers :) eta on releases???
 
GreenMachineX said:
I know, right? My hematocrit keeps climbing though. After these last results he said to reduce by 1 pump because my hct was a half a point above range (even though my labs were at 155!). Fired him! I've found a new doctor that I saw last week.

Just saw a new doctor last week and she did bloods; I should have the results and a new TRT plan tomorrow.
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Can you donate blood?
FYI, some people have success with Naringin capsules to keep HCT in check.

The_Old_Guy said:
It is 100% correct to say that if you want a 1-DHEA product that is backed by University research, than orally swallowed capsules are the way to go - I agree. If that product happens to come dosed properly with enough capsules per bottle - heck yeah. I'd love a race to the bottom :)
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Yessir, 100% correct.
 
cubs1987 said:
Hopefully some cyclodextrin/absorption enhancers :) eta on releases???
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Its looking like the first of the year. Really can't give any more details, I've probably already said too much.
 
Also, GreenMachineX, do you suffer from sleep apnea? That's an underestimated cause of Polycythemia and androgens can make it worse.
 
yates84 what would the maximum length you could run epiandro/ 4ad? I am planning my spring run before summer, hopefully the OL will be out before then
 
YouBet33 said:
yates84 what would the maximum length you could run epiandro/ 4ad? I am planning my spring run before summer, hopefully the OL will be out before then
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I wouldn't reccomend running any ph/ds longer than 8 weeks. Any longer than this usually only leads to negative sides and not really any more gains imo
 
xtyler said:
Can you donate blood?
FYI, some people have success with Naringin capsules to keep HCT in check.
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I've been donating every 3 months or so as of now. Hopefully the doctor I'm seeing now will prescribe monthly donations if necessary.
I'll look into naringin too.
YatesWifey04 said:
I was going to suggest the same. If I'm not mistaken MrKleen73 does this to help his levels.
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Gotcha.

xtyler said:
Also, GreenMachineX, do you suffer from sleep apnea? That's an underestimated cause of Polycythemia and androgens can make it worse.
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Nope, I've had 2 sleep studies done with no sleep apnea detected.
 
yates84 said:
I wouldn't reccomend running any ph/ds longer than 8 weeks. Any longer than this usually only leads to negative sides and not really any more gains imo
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Here's my final plan as of right now then
Epiandro 1000/1000/1000/1000/1000/1000/1000/1000
Lgd
8/8/8/8/8/8/0/0
Tr1umph ph
0/0/40/60/60/60/60/60

Always correct cycle support and pct with serm
 
YouBet33 said:
Here's my final plan as of right now then
Epiandro 1000/1000/1000/1000/1000/1000/1000/1000
Lgd
8/8/8/8/8/8/0/0
Tr1umph ph
0/0/40/60/60/60/60/60

Always correct cycle support and pct with serm
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Cycle looks good but might get kind of dry with epiandro and triumph. Might want to consider switching the epiandro for 4 andro.
 
yates84 said:
Cycle looks good but might get kind of dry with epiandro and triumph. Might want to consider switching the epiandro for 4 andro.
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Any benefit to running both epiandro and 4 andro the whole time? Might be somewhat expensive but I have everything other then those two
 
YouBet33 said:
Any benefit to running both epiandro and 4 andro the whole time? Might be somewhat expensive but I have everything other then those two
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Definitely synergistic. 4 andro converts to testosterone which in turn will provide some aromatization and epiandro converts to dht and stimulates the cns. This is really the ideal "test base" out of everything available right now.
 
Great write up yates84 .
How would you compare hair thinning shedding etc of epiandro vs epistane ?
I didn't lose hair but mainly my hair got real thin I can see more of my scalp on epistane, one of AM members recommended high dosed beta sitosterol that it might help what are your thoughts?
 
hamdysayed said:
Great write up yates84 .
How would you compare hair thinning shedding etc of epiandro vs epistane ?
I didn't lose hair but mainly my hair got real thin I can see more of my scalp on epistane, one of AM members recommended high dosed beta sitosterol that it might help what are your thoughts?
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I think that if you had thinning on epistane then you could very possibly get some thinning on epiandro. You can get all the dht blockers in the world but if you are genetically prone to mpb any androgen can possibly thin your hair and speed up the mpb process.
 
yates84 said:
I think that if you had thinning on epistane then you could very possibly get some thinning on epiandro. You can get all the dht blockers in the world but if you are genetically prone to mpb any androgen can possibly thin your hair and speed up the mpb process.
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Thanks bro, could one effect it more than the other or no telling really?
 
hamdysayed said:
Thanks bro, could one effect it more than the other or no telling really?
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No way to tell but I would definitely stay away from dht based ph like epiandro if you are concerned about your hair line. 4 andro will be the much better choice.
 
hamdysayed said:
Great write up yates84 .
How would you compare hair thinning shedding etc of epiandro vs epistane ?
I didn't lose hair but mainly my hair got real thin I can see more of my scalp on epistane, one of AM members recommended high dosed beta sitosterol that it might help what are your thoughts?
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Wait wut? I thought it was laziness to "pop some pills"
hamdysayed said:
Would rather pop some pills instead of measuring etc ya know what I'm sayin?
Hehe
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Lulz....
 
hamdysayed said:
Great write up yates84 .
How would you compare hair thinning shedding etc of epiandro vs epistane ?
I didn't lose hair but mainly my hair got real thin I can see more of my scalp on epistane, one of AM members recommended high dosed beta sitosterol that it might help what are your thoughts?
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I'd stay away from systemic antiandrogens and/or 5alpha-reductase inhibitor.
If you're MPB prone, use Nizoral or Regenepure regularly. Minoxidil foam works well for many guys too.
 
I´ve never tried 1-andro "for real" (just one bottle once during a long AH run) but are a bit curious about it now when OL is about to release.
What do you think about stack it with Dtrest? Is 1-andro strong enough to add something to Trest or will it just be smoke in the background?
 
1-DHEA is normally run with some sort of Base. Trest is a great base I hear (never ran it), so from that standpoint, I don't see why it wouldn't be a great combo.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
1-DHEA is normally run with some sort of Base. Trest is a great base I hear (never ran it), so from that standpoint, I don't see why it wouldn't be a great combo.
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^^/this
Sounds like a great combination
 
Great write up Yates, why I come to you for help with anabolics, always reliable !

Anyways one thing I might have missed but how do I combat prostate enlargement or side effects from epiandro. Or 4 andro for that matter
 
Kickstart7 said:
Great write up Yates, why I come to you for help with anabolics, always reliable !

Anyways one thing I might have missed but how do I combat prostate enlargement or side effects from epiandro. Or 4 andro for that matter
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We are actually working on a product to combat negative dht sides. 4 andro, I would just reccomend you have an ai like exem on hand.
 
Kickstart7 said:
Great write up Yates, why I come to you for help with anabolics, always reliable !

Anyways one thing I might have missed but how do I combat prostate enlargement or side effects from epiandro. Or 4 andro for that matter
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If you experience DHT-related sides (not everybody does), you should (IMO) address them very specifically.
Acne/oily skin? Tea Tree oil soap or salicylic acid soap.
Hair thinning? Nizoral or Regenepure shampoo.
Difficult urine flow? Last generation alpha blockers.


...or just lower the dose :p
 
Thanks guys, I used stano at a high dose and didn't experience anything, I'm hoping that epiandro would be the same. I looked more defined forsure
 
Kickstart7 said:
Thanks guys, I used stano at a high dose and didn't experience anything, I'm hoping that epiandro would be the same. I looked more defined forsure
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Stano and epiandro are almost the exact same and both have the same target compounds so you should be gtg.
 
yates84 said:
Stano and epiandro are almost the exact same and both have the same target compounds so you should be gtg.
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Ok, but does one increase cholesterol more than the other. I was advised not to use stano for that reason even though I have plenty of it.
 
Kickstart7 said:
Ok, but does one increase cholesterol more than the other. I was advised not to use stano for that reason even though I have plenty of it.
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All ph/ds will mess with your cholesterol. I don't see why stano would be any harder on cholesterol than any other compound.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
1-DHEA is normally run with some sort of Base. Trest is a great base I hear (never ran it), so from that standpoint, I don't see why it wouldn't be a great combo.
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Yes, that was a thought as well, the thing that made wondering a bit was that Trest is quite strong (I´ve ran it..) and if adding 1-andro to that just would like be pissing in the ocean, even if the theory with 1-andro+test base is regular.

Wonder if Trest/4-andro/1-andro/epiandro would a waste? I like the idea of 19-nor/test/1-test/DHT stack.. ;)
 
yates84 said:
All ph/ds will mess with your cholesterol. I don't see why stano would be any harder on cholesterol than any other compound.
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I agree with you buddy! I was just told that LGD effects cholesterol in a significantly bad way, then I was told that stano does as well and warned not to use them together
 
Kickstart7 said:
I agree with you buddy! I was just told that LGD effects cholesterol in a significantly bad way, then I was told that stano does as well and warned not to use them together
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Most of the labs I've seen from lgd only cycles haven't been much out of range at all. Something is off about what that guy is telling you.
 
yates84 said:
Most of the labs I've seen from lgd only cycles haven't been much out of range at all. Something is off about what that guy is telling you.
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Thank you for clarifying Yates, always reliable man!
 
yates84 said:
Cool. Keep us updated!
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Well, my testosterone came back this time mid 400's (clean shaved Androgel application), hematocrit 2 points above range, and of my AST and ALT one was a point or 2 high and the other was like 100 points higher. The doctor seemed only mildly concerned about that. But her recommendation was to get milk thistle, start tapering the Androgel, see their dietician for a detox program, and give blood when possible. Wtf! Spent $500 on this appointment too. Why can't I find a real progressive TRT doctor? It's either a mainstream idiot endocrinologist or a neo-hippie BS doctor. According to this one's website they were supposed to be legit too. So apparently SARMS do affect liver enzymes also.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Well, my testosterone came back this time mid 400's (clean shaved Androgel application), hematocrit 2 points above range, and of my AST and ALT one was a point or 2 high and the other was like 100 points higher. The doctor seemed only mildly concerned about that. But her recommendation was to get milk thistle, start tapering the Androgel, see their dietician for a detox program, and give blood when possible. Wtf! Spent $500 on this appointment too. Why can't I find a real progressive TRT doctor? It's either a mainstream idiot endocrinologist or a neo-hippie BS doctor. According to this one's website they were supposed to be legit too. So apparently SARMS do affect liver enzymes also.
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What SARM did you use?
 
GreenMachineX said:
Well, my testosterone came back this time mid 400's (clean shaved Androgel application), hematocrit 2 points above range, and of my AST and ALT one was a point or 2 high and the other was like 100 points higher. The doctor seemed only mildly concerned about that. But her recommendation was to get milk thistle, start tapering the Androgel, see their dietician for a detox program, and give blood when possible. Wtf! Spent $500 on this appointment too. Why can't I find a real progressive TRT doctor? It's either a mainstream idiot endocrinologist or a neo-hippie BS doctor. According to this one's website they were supposed to be legit too. So apparently SARMS do affect liver enzymes also.
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Why haven't your switched to shots to see if that helps some of the issues?
 
GreenMachineX said:
None of the doctors I've seen will! lol. That's exactly what I want too. I hate Androgel.
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You would think that the large variations in your test levels would be a clue to your doctor's that Androgel just isn't for you.
 
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