Androgel 1.62% Review/Feedback

My only hesitance from ordering generic testosterone gel from the Internet is the uncertainty of what exactly you are ordering. It's almost like taking a street drug without knowing the history of the product. I did try the 1.62% generic gel which has 10% DMSO mixed in, and it seemed to be alright though I'm not a fan of using DMSO which is also an agent used to decompose dead bodies :( Personally moving forward, I'll only take the original Androgel from Abbvie that I know is guaranteed to be safe. That's my .02.
 
I've been using generic androgel 3.24 from the beginning. I like the idea of a higher concentration requiring fewer pumps. Where the heck did the 1.62 come from anyway? At one pump of 3.24 my T levels were 183 taken late in the day, around 3:30 P.M. I've since gone to two pumps of 3.24 + Phlogel Ultra. I will be doing blood tests friday. My doc wants to take bloods frist thing in the morning before I apply any product. I know that is what the androgel people recommend also. I'm not sure how it will affect my T levels. the androgel people say there is a T spike about 2 hours after application and then T levels out.
 
I've routinely taken my blood tests about 3-4 hours after applying 4 pumps of Androgel + Phlojel Ultra, which is what was advised from my doctor. From what I've seen in the Androgel literature is the T-levels should remain steady throught the 24-hour interval, with a slight spike after the first 2 hours of application. Just make sure not to apply any Androgel/Phlojel to the upper arm for at least a day prior, so you do not have incorrect levels from the blood draw site.
 
svida said:
I've routinely taken my blood tests about 3-4 hours after applying 4 pumps of Androgel + Phlojel Ultra, which is what was advised from my doctor. From what I've seen in the Androgel literature is the T-levels should remain steady throught the 24-hour interval, with a slight spike after the first 2 hours of application. Just make sure not to apply any Androgel/Phlojel to the upper arm for at least a day prior, so you do not have incorrect levels from the blood draw site.
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Yeah I've had the blood draw site issue :D I always do labs about 10 hours post 2nd application....i love how they say come in first thing in the morning when your testosterone source is exogenous.
 
BBB said:
I just got my test results from four pumps of generic androgel plus Phlogel = 583.
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You said 2 pumps + phlogel four posts up? 2 at 3% sounds about right at 583.....four would be preposterous :D
 
BBB said:
Two pumps of 3.24 = four pumps of 1.62. Either way we're talking 81 mg.
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Thats what i figured, but you need to be clear since there are 1%, 1.62%, 3.24% and God knows what other percentages. 4 pumps of 1.62% is equal to about 6-7 pumps of 1%, and like i said I got TT of 687 at 8 pumps 1%, so 6-7 pumps (the equivalent of what you are taking) of the 1% should equate to high 500's (which is what you got). Now, that being said, that is without phlojel :D....so there is something amiss here, since phlojel in the mix should put you well above "normal expectations".
 
BBB said:
Two pumps of 3.25
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yeah like I said up above, 6.50% = 6.5 pumps of 1%. So w/o phlojel it works out to mid-high 500's on average....but you are using phlojel so something is up, maybe its underdosed androgel....or should I say most likely its underdosed androgel.
 
Additionally I give blood about 8 hr after application. My doc wants me to wait at least 4 hr to avoid peaks.
 
Just using 4 pumps of the brand Androgel 1.62% alone (81mg total) I was seeing about the same number, ~600 total testosterone. It doesn't seem like the Phlogel is doing too much for ya, or perhaps the additional concentration isn't carrying throughly with their DMSO mixture. I'd advise trying the authentic Androgel 1.62% @ 4 pumps for a month alone with no DMSO nor Phlogel and retest, so you can establish a reliable baseline. I just took a blood test on Friday and am awaiting my results! I'll let ya know in a few days...
 
I was wondering if 3.24 is well absorbed? Maybe that's why they decided on 1.62. I agree, I expected higher numbers. I might try the 1.62 for a month and retest.
 
583 taken 7 hours after application is not all that bad, since Androgel peaks about two hours after application. I'm guessing my peak T levels will be well over 800.
 
Like I've said many times before, I think you guys need to give it more time....one initial lab on "XX pumps" and you get a so-so # does not indicate how its going to be 6 months or more down the road. This stuff seems to build up over time, despite being a topical that should give immediate results. I went from 687 to 960 to 1050 on ~8 pumps of 1% (equal to 5 or so pumps of 1.62%) over a period of about 6 months....no phlojel or real deviation in pumps (other than maybe going between 8 and 10....but I always made sure that I was on 8 for a few weeks prior to testing). There are a lot of knee jerk reactions with androgel, and an instant gratification type attitude.
 
AnabolicHolic said:
Like I've said many times before, I think you guys need to give it more time....one initial lab on "XX pumps" and you get a so-so # does not indicate how its going to be 6 months or more down the road. This stuff seems to build up over time, despite being a topical that should give immediate results. I went from 687 to 960 to 1050 on ~8 pumps of 1% (equal to 5 or so pumps of 1.62%) over a period of about 6 months....no phlojel or real deviation in pumps (other than maybe going between 8 and 10....but I always made sure that I was on 8 for a few weeks prior to testing). There are a lot of knee jerk reactions with androgel, and an instant gratification type attitude.
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I've been on the gel for 17 months and I'm at the max dose allowed by insurance. I had no choice but to switch to injections.
 
AnabolicHolic said:
yeah like I said up above, 6.50% = 6.5 pumps of 1%. So w/o phlojel it works out to mid-high 500's on average....but you are using phlojel so something is up, maybe its underdosed androgel....or should I say most likely its underdosed androgel.
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If results a linear and they should be provided appropriate application sites are chosen, 40.5 mg = 183 mg/dl therefore 81 mg should = 366 mg/dl. 583/366 = 1.59 say 1.6 therefore Phlogel has inceased absorption by 60%. Not bad. According to the charts provide by the Androgel studies it does increase over time but not significantly.
 
thegodfather said:
I've been on the gel for 17 months and I'm at the max dose allowed by insurance. I had no choice but to switch to injections.
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Well at least you gave it an appropriate amount of time, your max allowed looks like the part that is holding you back.....seems like 6 pumps would have gotten you to at least 650-700. I know my insurance covers 8 pumps of 1%.....or 5 pumps of 1.62%.... Heck, your 4 pumps with phlojel may have gotten you into the 700's or above.....too late now though :D

BBB said:
If results a linear and they should be provided appropriate application sites are chosen, 40.5 mg = 183 mg/dl therefore 81 mg should = 366 mg/dl. 583/366 = 1.59 say 1.6 therefore Phlogel has inceased absorption by 60%. Not bad. According to the charts provide by the Androgel studies it does increase over time but not significantly.
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I have found that results do seem linear and predictable....so I believe your computations are probably pretty accurate. As for the increase over time, I know the literature states that it does rise over time slightly....but at least for me, it seemed to rise by about a 50% increase within a years time. Although I did vary the dosage by 1-2 pumps here and there, but I tried to avoid any more than 8 pumps during the lab month as stated above. Maybe I'm just an oddball case though....
 
AnabolicHolic said:
I have found that results do seem linear and predictable....so I believe your computations are probably pretty accurate. As for the increase over time, I know the literature states that it does rise over time slightly....but at least for me, it seemed to rise by about a 50% increase within a years time. Although I did vary the dosage by 1-2 pumps here and there, but I tried to avoid any more than 8 pumps during the lab month as stated above. Maybe I'm just an oddball case though....
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I see you take pretty heavy doses of Androgel, do you use and AI? Has Androgel had any affect on your prostate?
 
BBB said:
I see you take pretty heavy doses of Androgel, do you use and AI? Has Androgel had any affect on your prostate?
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My PSA is always good....but i get swollen prostate issues time to time....estrogen is always high....been using forma lately to control it.
 
BBB said:
I plan on starting my Helladrol cycle this weekend.
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I'm finishing up 7 weeks on epi ...so I need a good 3-4 months before I even think of a methyl cycle. You can be the guinea pig :D
 
Beau said:
How about Proviron w/ TRT? Any experience or thoughts?
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I've been using DHT all along as an adjunct to TRT.....first I used a few androhardv3 per day....then when that was discontinued I started using the Andractim DHT gel (which I've been using up until this day). I have been tapering the Andractim down recently and when this tube is done I'll take a break from DHT for a bit, then start up with the transdermal DHT by that guy who sells trandsdermal gear, see how that works out. Proviron is essentially DHT in a pill, so its an option...but It always seemed more harsh on the sides for some reason? maybe I am wrong though....not sure how smart it is to use proviron for extended periods of time?
 
AnabolicHolic said:
I'm finishing up 7 weeks on epi ...so I need a good 3-4 months before I even think of a methyl cycle. You can be the guinea pig :D
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How did your Epi cycle go? What dosage did you use?

I'm only going to use 50mg or possibly 75 mg of Helladrol. I don't think on TRT you need high doses.
 
BBB said:
.

How did your Epi cycle go? What dosage did you use?

I'm only going to use 50mg or possibly 75 mg of Helladrol. I don't think on TRT you need high doses.
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Oh good....i was debating 50-75 vs 100-125 mg per day....I'll see how you do i guess. i went with 75mg epi for 7.3 weeks :D 7 days left. Recomped so it went well. Lethargy tapered off the final 1/3 of the cycle thank god....it was awful weeks 3-4 or so.
 
Lethargy seems to be a problem for me on almost every PH I have used. Helladrol is not supposed to cause lethargy issues. That's one of the primary reasons I chose it. It also has several other beneficial effects. It does not aromatize nor convert to an active form of DHT. The fact it's a methyl is the only drawback that I know of but a mild dosage 50-75mg shouldn't be much of a problem especially if a liver protectant is used.
 
I took another blood test going back to my original method of evenly applying 4 pumps of Androgel to upper arms, chest, and back after taking a hot shower in the morning, and then waiting a few minutes and applying that thin layer of Phlogel Ultra. My total testosterone is back up to 1100, my free test is 275, and my Estradiol just went back down to 40. I am 100% convinced that this method is now consistently working for me and Phlogel Ultra is definitely doubling my test levels when applied properly each day. With the 4 pumps, I'm using a pretty wide coverage area as far back as I can reach on my upper back and shoulders, full chest, and upper arms. What I've now been trying is adding another 2 pumps to the sides of my abs, underarms, and lower back, along with Phlogel Ultra. So far about 5 months or so into treatment I feel fantastic with the only major side effects of weight loss and lean muscle gain :) I can't emphasize enough how much I would recommend this treatment and simple protocol to follow each morning. I'd be happy to hear of anyone else's bloodwork results after applying Phlogel Ultra...
 
I appreciate the information. How long after your initial application is your blood drawn? I take mine about 6 hours after my initial application (4 pumps plus Phlogel Ultra) and mine is running about 583 ng/dl. I shower in the morning and apply Androgel in the evening. I'm using the generic version of Androgel so it may be underdose I really don't know.
 
After applying Androgel + Phlojel, I've found that my peak concentration is around 2 hours after application which I clearly feel with my muscle swell, so I'd shoot for a blood draw after hour 3 or 4 which is what I consistently follow. I'd STRONGLY recommend to switch to applying the CERTIFIED Androgel in the morning instead followed by a thin layer of Phlojel Ultra. I'd ditch the generic Androgel with DMSO and change up your game. DMSO is A decomposition agent similar to formaldehyde -- do you seriously want that as a daily topical? DMSO can also interfere and/or negate Phlojel Ultra so your results are very similar to just applying Androgel alone without a transfer agent. Also, I'm getting ready to test a new Ultrasound machine over the skin site prior to application which may also increase absorption of transdermal medication. I feel awesome with my total test > 1100.
 
According to the Phlogel website a low does DSMO actually helps absorbtion:

Is there any way to increase the absorption rate of PU?

There are both physiological and chemical means to increase absorption rate. These include: a) apply to freshly-washed skin; b) occlude the affected application area, e.g. a bandage; c) add penetration enhancers such as menthol, d-limonene; DMSO up to 15%; add other solvents such as alcohol, propylene glycol, glycerol, transcutol but only in small amounts; if blood levels are required apply the product to an area of the body where the skin thickness is thin, e.g. the wrists, the forearm, behind the ear.

If I tested 3-4 hours after initial application I'm sure my T levels would be higher. My doc wants me to test 6-8 hours after application to obtain an average T level.
 
Yeah but the Phlojel site FAQ is contradictory at best.....they go on to say that DMSO is for shyt essentially and does nothing to help in another section, and they suggest not using it at all in another section since it may hinder the whole process. I find their FAQ very confusing and ambiguous to be honest.
 
Were it me, if starting w/ a DMSO based carrier, I would probably pre-mix the product with the PU.
 
DSMO is pretty good carrier on it's own, I don't see how it could hinder absorption especially at only 10%. If you do some research DSMO has a number of health benefits. In fact it has been used as a cancer treatment and is used as a chemo carrier by pharmaceutical labs. I would be more likely to think that generic Androgel is underdosed since it, in all likelyhood, isn't made in a certified lab. Without script insurance it's all I can afford and it seems to be working although not as well as certified Androgel.
I've also started showing prior to application this should help.
 
Yes, applying post hot shower will definitely get that absorption rate up some. I think of it as a must and utilize this method 90% of the time. I just got bloods taken yesterday so I will update this thread with me new results (Fortesta 5pumps + Phlojel Ultra).
 
I apply after showering when possible, and also before working out since I feel the sweating and rewetting of the androgel makes for better absorption.
 
^^^ I like to apply or re-apply pre-workout when I can to get that nice boost in intensity during the workout.
 
After 10 days of increasing my dosage to 6 pumps of Androgel + Phlojel Ultra, my bloodwork increased about 100 to 1250 total testosterone, and my E2 increased from 40 to about 52. So it appears there in my own case, the additional Androgel pumps beyond 4 are having an effect on my E2 and limiting my increase of total testosterone. I have noticed on 6 pumps that I've been much more aggressive, impatient, moody, and the first 4 days or so my libido was skyrocketing. So my next strategy is I'm going back to my tried and tested 4 pumps Androgel + Phlojel Ultra, but now I'm adding in 200mg of DIM daily to reduce estrogen. Has anyone had success with DIM? If so, how long did it take to be effective? Are there any side effects and how low should my estrogen be for optimal results?
 
I3C is more effective than DIM according to Dr Houser. He has studied this issue at length and says that the studies behind DIM are just poor science.
 
svida said:
After 10 days of increasing my dosage to 6 pumps of Androgel + Phlojel Ultra, my bloodwork increased about 100 to 1250 total testosterone, and my E2 increased from 40 to about 52. So it appears there in my own case, the additional Androgel pumps beyond 4 are having an effect on my E2 and limiting my increase of total testosterone. I have noticed on 6 pumps that I've been much more aggressive, impatient, moody, and the first 4 days or so my libido was skyrocketing. So my next strategy is I'm going back to my tried and tested 4 pumps Androgel + Phlojel Ultra, but now I'm adding in 200mg of DIM daily to reduce estrogen. Has anyone had success with DIM? If so, how long did it take to be effective? Are there any side effects and how low should my estrogen be for optimal results?
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You might want to also look at I3C, as an alternative to DIM. I believe it may be better absorbed.
 
I've seen alot of mixed reviews of DIM vs I3C. What abot a supplement that contains both such as the below link? Has anyone had success with DIM or I3C, and how long did it take to work?

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