anavar?
- Thread starter hamper19
- Start date
WYD02
Moderator
hamper19 said:
Many people use 20mg ED
It is 17aa so probably no more than 6 weeks in my opinion
You need to give us more information bro... what are you stats, what are you planning to do, age, etc.... plus, try to do some research on your own and then come back with specifics as they pertain to you...
Here is some info anyway:
Because of its mild nature and the low doses generally used with oxandrolone there is very little use for secondary compounds like anti-aromatase drugs, estrogen receptor antagonists or blood pressure medication. That in itself may somewhat make up for the high cost and little gains made on it.
In stacks Anavar is sometimes used to increase strength or help maintain it during mass phases. Oxandrolone obviously has very little to add in terms of mass compared to the other substances used to obtain such goals. It fades in comparison to test, Deca, Anadrol, D-bol and such. Nonetheless it is added quite often, perhaps because people assume it will make the overall stack less hazardous, but that's a myth of course. Frankly I would imagine there are better and cheaper things to waste your money on if mass is what you seek.
On a cutting phase oxandrolone makes a good match for 120-140 mcg of clenbuterol daily stacked with something in the nature of Halotestin or Winstrol. The combination improves muscle hardness and striation as well as support mass and strength retention. Experienced users would preferably add testosterone propionate or Equipoise no doubt, rather than Halotestin or Winstrol due to less hazard to the liver associated with those two drugs, especially Halotestin.
Mostly it is used for decent strength gains without gaining too much weight, particularly suited for weight- and powerlifters and martial artists. In that aspect, and in my humble opinion, Winstrol would be a good choice for a stack. 50 mg of Winstrol every day to every other day stacked with 30-40 mg of oxandrolone daily would give a very good result in overall strength enhancement without adding a mentionable amount of weight to the frame.
hamper19
The True Warrior is one who conquers oneself
forgot to tell you the info
im 23yrs old
about 5'7"
180lbs @ roughly 12%bf
Im not even sure if I will use it, I just needed the dosage real quick. And if I did use it it would be to harden up and I believe I actually read that it has some anti-e capabilities (along with winstrol) when it is progesterone related, say with deca or fina.
later.
h19
im 23yrs old
about 5'7"
180lbs @ roughly 12%bf
Im not even sure if I will use it, I just needed the dosage real quick. And if I did use it it would be to harden up and I believe I actually read that it has some anti-e capabilities (along with winstrol) when it is progesterone related, say with deca or fina.
later.
h19
YellowJacket
Banned
Agreed....only good attribute of anavar is the safety issue, which is like sucking tit through a sweater because in turn is costs you a bit on gains, not a good compromise in my opinion, especially for the money and like WYD said, it is a 17aa so not too liver friendly.
YellowJacket
Banned
raybravo said:
If you you use them well? Please explain.
raybravo
Board Supporter
lets consider the most used steroid , testosterone, now lets say u r using 500 mg per week of test enanthate , with that dose , on ur first cycle , u wont be having to much bloat , if at all , even if u do , use like .25 mg arimi , and even that is taken care of , and gyno ? please , at 500 mg , no way ! i mean none of the sides are that prominent with the dosages used yb beginners , so why even bother with these safe steroids .?
YellowJacket
Banned
Well I dont think its a fair assumption to generalize everyone and mimumal sides, everyone's body will react different. And lets remember, anavar was developed or made for the sole use of bodybuilders getting ahold of them and swelling up, I have personally seen some solid results with anavar, I personal think the major reason for the use of anavar is the retention of gains after its all over, which is very good, one of these best.
Blindfaith
New member
fina+anavar=lean mass gain....no water weight what so ever.
fina 76mg/day for 8 weeks
anavar 40mg/day for 10 weeks
a friend of mine did this along with some t3...and omg what a difference that made!
fina 76mg/day for 8 weeks
anavar 40mg/day for 10 weeks
a friend of mine did this along with some t3...and omg what a difference that made!
hamper19
The True Warrior is one who conquers oneself
you guys are comparing var to Fina........i mean one you have to inject ED..or at least EOD, the other you swallow in pill form...So if someone didnt want to do all those injections, and all they wanted was 5lb lbm...then Var would be the way to go...Plus...its good to harden up, and if thats your goal with no weight gain....then..its good as well...
h19
h19
DevilSmack
Member
'Var not that safe!
I may need to go look it up, but right off the top of my head, I believe oxandrolone used at more than 40mg a day was shown in clinical studies to cause liver toxicity.raybravo said:
Aneas
New member
Re: 'Var not that safe!
All aa-17 gear is hepatic. Regardless if its var or dbol. But at dosages of like 25-40 mg per day I would not worry as long as you take breaks and dont run cycle to long.
No real sides with var - its what women use.
DevilSmack said:I may need to go look it up, but right off the top of my head, I believe oxandrolone used at more than 40mg a day was shown in clinical studies to cause liver toxicity.
All aa-17 gear is hepatic. Regardless if its var or dbol. But at dosages of like 25-40 mg per day I would not worry as long as you take breaks and dont run cycle to long.
No real sides with var - its what women use.
DevilSmack
Member
I know this man. I posted for all of those who think that 'var is safer than other orals. BTW, I am going to send you a PM, I have a question.
anibal
New member
size said:
actually i was taking 100 percent oxandrin thats what the prescription said
prescribed for legitimate reasons. Im fascinated by the disbelief or yet denial that many have on it actually causing gynomastia. I am not a juicer or bodybuilder in other words I was not taking anything else from anybody other than a reputable professional specialist.
anibal
New member
I have also noticed some people in this forum discuss this in the past the mechanism behind aromatizing estrogens and articles based on oxandrin and reasons why it should not cause gyno. however i am a living proof on it not for quite 2 months and my doctor has confirmed to me that if i did in fact take 40-60mg the liklihood of the medicine being the contributing factor to be more than likely. now i still feel not at ease that some people in this forum have a hard time believing without a doubt that oxandrin causes gyno. looking for feedback. please no journals or articles about recommended dose as we all know that this does not correlate to the dose that i was taking or possibly most other people on this forum who have also taken it.
size
Well-known member
anibal said:
In this case, then you are in rarity. I suggest not using AAS. However, you need to leave your attitude behind or find a new board. No one is attacking you. My initial post relates to the FACT that anavar is commonly faked.
Some info from the insert:
ADVERSE REACTIONS
The following adverse reactions have been associated with use of anabolic steroids: Hepatic: Cholestatic jaundice with, rarely, hepatic necrosis and death. Hepatocellular neoplasms and peliosis hepatis with long-term therpy (See WARNINGS). Reversible changes in liver function tests also occur including increased bromsulfophthalein (BSP) retention, and increases in serum bilirubin, aspartate aminotransferase (AST, SGOT) and alkaline phosphatase.
In males:
Prepubertal: Phallic enlargement and increased frequency or persistence of erections.
Postpubertal: Inhibition of testicular function, testicular atrophy and oligospermia, impotence, chronic priapism, epididymitis, and bladder irritability.
Relating to dosage
Adults: The response of individuals to anabolic steroids varies. The daily adult dosage is 2.5 to 20mg given in 2 to 4 divided doses. The desired response may be achieved with as little as 2.5mg or as much as 20mg daily. A course of therapy of 2 to 4 weeks is usually adequate. This may be repeated intermittently as indicated.
Notice what is missing from the adverse reactions in males?
anibal
New member
size said:
Im sorry if my previous posting emanated a tone other than one of humble interest or desperate search for this happening to me when it should not have. My intentions were not to insult or offend. I just feel that as what you just posted the dosage they are talking about are for 2.5 to 20mg not for more than that.
size
Well-known member
anibal said:
I understand, and in fact, I have spent much of the evening trying to find some studies indicating the development of gyno in males from anavar. Thus far, I have come up empty. I will continue to look as I am intrigued by this.
Initially, I expected that you had received fake anavar tablets. However, this apparently is not the case.
anibal
New member
size said:
You know what I have searched surfed the internet day and night trying to find any evidence suggestive of oxandrin being the culprit for gyno but I guess im just going to have to tell you "i guess your right". maybe i was a rare case as there is no literature to hint or suggest this. In fact everything states the opposite. I am totally frustrated Im just going to have to think back really hard and figure out what else could have caused it. I do have some oxandrin left which i stopped taking the expiration date is 2003. I am interested in using them again now what else can i do to ensure ascertain that it goes well in the gyno dept. In other words if you were in my shoes and had 2mo wortth of oxandrin with expiration date 2003. would you use them and if so with what else to be safe with the gyno. Sorry for all the effort you put into helping me out. Im calling my doctor today and asking him to go throught th eprocess of finding the "real" reason for my gyno with me. Size thanks for everytrhing as for now i have to agress with you my gyno was probably not from anavar. Please allow me however to post you what ever information my doctor can pull out of his bible.
anibal
New member
I just spoke with my doctor he states and is very adamant that this medicine does in fact cause gynecomastia. he said he looked it up in the physicians desk reference (docotrs bible) and it lists breast gynecomastia as an adverse rxn. I insisted to him that if it says breast does it not refer to women being victims not the men. He states absolutely not. after 10 minutes of me trying to convince him that it seems like its refering to females he insists that it applies to both sexes. Im sure you found the insert on the internet that i found ill try to post up what it says, but you be the judge My doctor has a good repoir but he is not god and could be misinterpreting. you decide.
anibal
New member
it looks to me like this website explains what my doctor said but again left to interpretation feel free to paste this website and interpret yourself the adverse rxns. you need to download the adobe acrobat insert located at bottom of homepage i pasted that section her tell me what you think isit obvious or am i right are the ar a little hazy to follow because of the word breast
Invalid Link Removed
ADVERSE REACTIONS
The following adverse reactions have been associated with use of
anabolic steroids:
Hepatic: Cholestatic jaundice with, rarely, hepatic necrosis and death.
Hepatocellular neoplasms and peliosis hepatis with long-term therapy
(See WARNINGS). Reversible changes in liver function tests also
occur including increased bromsulfophthalein (BSP) retention, and
increases in serum bilirubin, aspartate aminotransferase (AST,
SGOT) and alkaline phosphatase.
In males:
Prepubertal: Phallic enlargement and increased frequency or persistence
of erections.
Postpubertal: Inhibition of testicular function, testicular atrophy and
oligospermia, impotence, chronic priapism, epididymitis, and bladder
irritability.
In females:
Clitoral enlargement, menstrual irregularities.
CNS: Habituation, excitation, insomnia, depression, and changes in libido.
Hematologic: Bleeding in patients on concomitant oral anticoagulant therapy.
Breast: Gynecomastia.
Larynx: Deepening of the voice in females.
Hair: Hirsutism and male pattern baldness in females.
Skin: Acne (especially in females and prepubertal males).
Skeletal: Premature closure of epiphyses in children (See PRECAUTIONS:
Pediatric use).
Fluid and electrolytes: Edema, retention of serum electrolytes (sodium
chloride, potassium, phosphate, calcium).
Metabolic/Endocrine: Decreased glucose tolerance (See PRECAUTIONS:
Laboratory Tests), increased creatinine excretion, increased serum levels
of creatinine phosphokinase (CPK). Masculinization of the fetus. Inhibition
of gonadotropin secretion.
OVERDOSAGE
No symptoms or signs associated with overdosage have been reported.
It is possible that sodium and water retention may occur.
The oral LD50 of oxandrolone in mice and dogs is greater than 5,000 mg/kg.
No specific antidote is known, but gastric lavage may be used.
DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION
Therapy with anabolic steroids is adjunctive to and not a replacement
for conventional therapy. The duration of therapy with Oxandrin
(oxandrolone) will depend on the response of the patient and the possible
appearance of adverse reactions. Therapy should be intermittent.
Adults: The response of individuals to anabolic steroids varies. The
daily adult dosage is 2.5 mg to 20 mg given in 2 to 4 divided
doses.The desired response may be achieved with as little as 2.5 mg
or as much as 20 mg daily. A course of therapy of 2 to 4 weeks is
usually adequate. This may be repeated intermittently as indicated.
Children: For children the total daily dosage of Oxandrin is ²0.1 mg
per kilogram body weight or ²0.045 mg per pound of body weight.
This may be repeated intermittently as indicated.
HOW SUPPLIED
Invalid Link Removed
ADVERSE REACTIONS
The following adverse reactions have been associated with use of
anabolic steroids:
Hepatic: Cholestatic jaundice with, rarely, hepatic necrosis and death.
Hepatocellular neoplasms and peliosis hepatis with long-term therapy
(See WARNINGS). Reversible changes in liver function tests also
occur including increased bromsulfophthalein (BSP) retention, and
increases in serum bilirubin, aspartate aminotransferase (AST,
SGOT) and alkaline phosphatase.
In males:
Prepubertal: Phallic enlargement and increased frequency or persistence
of erections.
Postpubertal: Inhibition of testicular function, testicular atrophy and
oligospermia, impotence, chronic priapism, epididymitis, and bladder
irritability.
In females:
Clitoral enlargement, menstrual irregularities.
CNS: Habituation, excitation, insomnia, depression, and changes in libido.
Hematologic: Bleeding in patients on concomitant oral anticoagulant therapy.
Breast: Gynecomastia.
Larynx: Deepening of the voice in females.
Hair: Hirsutism and male pattern baldness in females.
Skin: Acne (especially in females and prepubertal males).
Skeletal: Premature closure of epiphyses in children (See PRECAUTIONS:
Pediatric use).
Fluid and electrolytes: Edema, retention of serum electrolytes (sodium
chloride, potassium, phosphate, calcium).
Metabolic/Endocrine: Decreased glucose tolerance (See PRECAUTIONS:
Laboratory Tests), increased creatinine excretion, increased serum levels
of creatinine phosphokinase (CPK). Masculinization of the fetus. Inhibition
of gonadotropin secretion.
OVERDOSAGE
No symptoms or signs associated with overdosage have been reported.
It is possible that sodium and water retention may occur.
The oral LD50 of oxandrolone in mice and dogs is greater than 5,000 mg/kg.
No specific antidote is known, but gastric lavage may be used.
DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION
Therapy with anabolic steroids is adjunctive to and not a replacement
for conventional therapy. The duration of therapy with Oxandrin
(oxandrolone) will depend on the response of the patient and the possible
appearance of adverse reactions. Therapy should be intermittent.
Adults: The response of individuals to anabolic steroids varies. The
daily adult dosage is 2.5 mg to 20 mg given in 2 to 4 divided
doses.The desired response may be achieved with as little as 2.5 mg
or as much as 20 mg daily. A course of therapy of 2 to 4 weeks is
usually adequate. This may be repeated intermittently as indicated.
Children: For children the total daily dosage of Oxandrin is ²0.1 mg
per kilogram body weight or ²0.045 mg per pound of body weight.
This may be repeated intermittently as indicated.
HOW SUPPLIED
anibal
New member
I just spoke to my docotr agin he confirms that because the gynecomastia although refering to breast is not listed under the female section alone it refers to both sexes. He will be doing research on why if it is nonaromatizing it would be able to do this and he will call me back i will keep you posted
anibal
New member
rrgg said:
It was prescribed to me because i had post surgical involuntary weight loss. It was a great effort to try to get me to gain weight but after the oxandrin it was successfull about 30lbs in 2months I think but i got a little bit of gyno and love handles and one disgusting stretchmark that looks like a worm on my wasit line very gross. I was taking the wrong dose recommended though
anibal
New member
It was prescribed to me because i had post surgical involuntary weight loss. It was a great effort to try to get me to gain weight but after the oxandrin it was successfull about 30lbs in 2months I think but i got a little bit of gyno and love handles and one disgusting stretchmark that looks like a worm on my wasit line very gross. I was taking the wrong dose recommended thoughrrgg said:
no my bf percentage was very low actually and i was under my ideal weight
rrgg
Well-known member
Sorry to hear about such a bad experience. Still I think it's unusual. Never heard of such an episode before.
BUT... what people here are saying is that even if this unlikely event occured it would *STILL* be an indirect causal relationship. Anavar doesn't directly convert to something that directly causes a gyno side effect.
To add to all of this is the dosage you described. It's quite low compared to what bodybuilders have used for years without gyno reports.
Maybe your medical condition at the time and other drugs you were taking also created a hormonal environment that made you prone to this side effect. Just a guess though.
I'd like to hear more about your doctor's explanation. Maybe we are splitting hairs here, but I think the problem is that the gist of what your doctor's saying may seem right to you, but he's not being technically precise. If by some small chance the anavar led to a rise in test levels, some rare individual could have excess test that later leads to a conversion that causes the gyno.
BUT... what people here are saying is that even if this unlikely event occured it would *STILL* be an indirect causal relationship. Anavar doesn't directly convert to something that directly causes a gyno side effect.
To add to all of this is the dosage you described. It's quite low compared to what bodybuilders have used for years without gyno reports.
Maybe your medical condition at the time and other drugs you were taking also created a hormonal environment that made you prone to this side effect. Just a guess though.
size
Well-known member
anibal said:
I did not realize this was your situation. I am now inclined to believe that it may have not been the oxandrin. Were you taking any additional medications?
For instance:
- Antibiotics (isoniazid, ketoconazole, metronidazole)
- Anti-ulcer medications such as cimetidine
- Cancer chemotherapeutics, especially alkylating agents
- Cardiovascular drugs, such as captopril and digitoxin
- Psychoactive agents, such as diazepam and tricyclic antidepressants
- Recreational drugs, such as alcohol and marijuana
- Possibly painkillers
wildman536
Active member
IMO- D-Bol>Anavar.
wildman536
Active member
oh, i guess it helps to read the WHOLE thread before you post!!size said:
Good luck with your Condition bro!!