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amount of HCG per week?

allnatty9000

New member
Hi guys just started my second cycle
Running 700mg/w sustanon 350
30mg dbol/ed first 4 weeks.
12mg aromasin/ed
I recently started pinning HCG I plan to run it on cycle 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and for 2 weeks after my last shot.
Im pinning 250iu sub q/ed.
My question is, is that enough? Should I up it to 500iu/ed for the duration?
18 years old.
245lbs 7% bf.
Second cycle.
Also I started this cycle after 4 weeks of taking nova and no extra recovery time from my first
 
250iu twice a week? My goal is to restore testicular size lost from my last cycle. From what I've read elsewhere 250iu ed taken for 14-21 days is what's needed?
Can anyone confirm?
 
allnatty9000 said:
250iu twice a week? My goal is to restore testicular size lost from my last cycle. From what I've read elsewhere 250iu ed taken for 14-21 days is what's needed? Can anyone confirm?
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2 ways to do it:

250 IU 2x per week on cycle finishing at the end of the time your esters clear (just as you start PCT)

Or

1500IU EOD for the first 15 days of PCT.

I prefer the second way now, but some both. Method one keeps your balls big on cycle (totally pointless as aesthetic only). Method 2 kick starts your balls during PCT, which is what you want.

HCG is something you desensitise to, so using on cycle seems pointless to me. Save it for when you need to get things going again properly - PCT.
 
Okay thanks i have a few more questions
Is there a negative effect to pinning HCG daily? Other than desensitization? I dont wanr to pin it throughout the whole cycle only weeks 2-4 and two weeks before my pct.
Also do I have to worry about it going bad if I dont use it all right away? I have a 5000iu bottle mixed at 2500iu/ml. I keep it cold in a dark container.
 
Number 10 said:
2 ways to do it: 250 IU 2x per week on cycle finishing at the end of the time your esters clear (just as you start PCT) Or 1500IU EOD for the first 15 days of PCT. I prefer the second way now, but some both. Method one keeps your balls big on cycle (totally pointless as aesthetic only). Method 2 kick starts your balls during PCT, which is what you want. HCG is something you desensitise to, so using on cycle seems pointless to me. Save it for when you need to get things going again properly - PCT.
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Desensitise to hcg? I think you may have your wires crossed as the desensitisation happens to your leydig cells inside your testicles. When these desensitise you have a harder time getting back to your pre cycle test levels. Desensitisation is brought on by blasting higher doses of hcg. In saying that dr scallys power pct he recommends using 2500iy EOD for two weeks prior to pct. so take what i said with a grain of salt lol.
 
allnatty9000 said:
Okay thanks i have a few more questions Is there a negative effect to pinning HCG daily? Other than desensitization? I dont wanr to pin it throughout the whole cycle only weeks 2-4 and two weeks before my pct. Also do I have to worry about it going bad if I dont use it all right away? I have a 5000iu bottle mixed at 2500iu/ml. I keep it cold in a dark container.
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There's pretty much no point to taking it weeks 2-4 if I were you I'd just run it in the two weeks prior to pct at moderate doses. It does go bad well not bad exactly but does lose potency so I'd mix it when you plan to use it.
 
Lukef2000 said:
There's pretty much no point to taking it weeks 2-4 if I were you I'd just run it in the two weeks prior to pct at moderate doses. It does go bad well not bad exactly but does lose potency so I'd mix it when you plan to use it.
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Why is there no point in taking it weeks 2-4 (possibly 5 as well)? Im simply trying to restore testicle size lost from my first. Cycle which I had basically no recovery from. I do plan on running it two weeks prior to my pct as well though
 
allnatty9000 said:
Why is there no point in taking it weeks 2-4 (possibly 5 as well)? Im simply trying to restore testicle size lost from my first. Cycle which I had basically no recovery from. I do plan on running it two weeks prior to my pct as well though
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because your still going to be suppressing yourself with androgens so you may gain your size back in those weeks but they will atrophy again once it's discontinued as your natural levels aren't high enough to stimulate a LH signal to your testes.
 
allnatty9000 said:
Ah okay I see thanks. But even so wouldnt the atrophy be much greater if I didnt use it at all till the very end?
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suppression is suppression really, your still suppressed even while on hcg, just because your testes are receiving a LH signal it still wouldn't be at the level where your producing the amount you would be naturally. IMO hcg is essentially a primer, it's primes your testes so when androgens are discontinued they are ready to take the weight.
 
Right, im not worried about producing normal amounts of natural test while on. Only about keeping the biggest balls possible
 
allnatty9000 said:
Right, im not worried about producing normal amounts of natural test while on. Only about keeping the biggest balls possible
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You missed my point so I'll rephrase, your testes need a LH signal to be big. Hcg mimicks LH hence the reason your balls will get bigger whilst taking it. If you want large balls post cycle you'll have to have a natural LH signal above a certain level.
 
Lukef2000 said:
Desensitise to hcg? I think you may have your wires crossed as the desensitisation happens to your leydig cells inside your testicles. When these desensitise you have a harder time getting back to your pre cycle test levels. Desensitisation is brought on by blasting higher doses of hcg. In saying that dr scallys power pct he recommends using 2500iy EOD for two weeks prior to pct. so take what i said with a grain of salt lol.
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Don't have my wires crossed at all. You are right about Dr Scally's PCT, which is what my recommendation is based on. There is absolutely no point in on-cycle therapy unless aesthetics are an issue. Save it for when you really need it; PCT.
 
allnatty9000 said:
Okay thanks i have a few more questions Is there a negative effect to pinning HCG daily? Other than desensitization? I dont wanr to pin it throughout the whole cycle only weeks 2-4 and two weeks before my pct. Also do I have to worry about it going bad if I dont use it all right away? I have a 5000iu bottle mixed at 2500iu/ml. I keep it cold in a dark container.
Click to expand...

It keeps for 3 weeks once reconstituted if kept in a fridge. So, unless you plan on using it all not, you will waste it.

I don't see why you would pin it daily so don't understand your question.
 
allnatty9000 said:
Why is there no point in taking it weeks 2-4 (possibly 5 as well)? Im simply trying to restore testicle size lost from my first. Cycle which I had basically no recovery from. I do plan on running it two weeks prior to my pct as well though
Click to expand...

Your balls are small because you didn't leave enough recovery time from your first cycle. My bet is you didn't PCT properly at all and jumped back on. So you need to almost look at this and at the end of this cycle PCT as if this has been one big cycle with a Nolva "bridge" in the middle, as daft as that sounds.

You need to properly PCT, then properly recover to a natural state, before considering AAS again. Or blast and cruise.
 
Lukef2000 said:
suppression is suppression really, your still suppressed even while on hcg, just because your testes are receiving a LH signal it still wouldn't be at the level where your producing the amount you would be naturally. IMO hcg is essentially a primer, it's primes your testes so when androgens are discontinued they are ready to take the weight.
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Not specifically true. It mimics LH so it is signalling the testes to do their job. It's use in POWER PCT is like a jump start for a car - once things are moving you don't need to jump start any more.
 
Number 10 said:
Don't have my wires crossed at all. You are right about Dr Scally's PCT, which is what my recommendation is based on. There is absolutely no point in on-cycle therapy unless aesthetics are an issue. Save it for when you really need it; PCT.
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The way you phrased it implied that you desensitise to the drug which is inaccurate as it's your leydig cells that desensitise. I have seen bloodwork of people that have run it 250iu during cycle and the results were positive to say the least in terms of recovery. So as I'm sure you are aware there are arguments for both sides.
 
Number 10 said:
Your balls are small because you didn't leave enough recovery time from your first cycle. My bet is you didn't PCT properly at all and jumped back on. So you need to almost look at this and at the end of this cycle PCT as if this has been one big cycle with a Nolva "bridge" in the middle, as daft as that sounds. You need to properly PCT, then properly recover to a natural state, before considering AAS again. Or blast and cruise.
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Agree here totally. Blast and cruise FTW lol.
 
Lukef2000 said:
The way you phrased it implied that you desensitise to the drug which is inaccurate as it's your leydig cells that desensitise. I have seen bloodwork of people that have run it 250iu during cycle and the results were positive to say the least in terms of recovery. So as I'm sure you are aware there are arguments for both sides.
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Yeah agree. I was on my way out and on my phone. My point to the OP was to use it wisely WHEN it's needed. IMO (and I changed my view on this after the power PCT thing you've obviously also read haha), use on cycle isn't as important as use as part of a structured PCT.

To me, that's when I want it most; a rapid recovery. Ball size on cycle is irrelevant unless you're a speedo model haha!! But I'm a 12 week on 18 week off kinda guy. You're a blast and cruiser?!
 
Thanks for all the responses guys.
Thing is I've already mixed my 5000iu bottle but I have some more coming in anyway.
250iu daily for 3 weeks should not cause desensitization of leydig cells?
Also my previous pct was
Nova 30/20/10/10
Do you mean to say I should do another 4 weeks "pct" mid cycle run at low doses like 10/10/10/10?
Finally I plan on doing as you guys have suggested and taking it pre pct as well.
Would 1000iu 2-3x per week for two weeks stopping 4 days before my pct be sufficient? Also should I add Clomid into my pct this time around as well considering my lack of recovery time from the last?
 
allnatty9000 said:
Thanks for all the responses guys. Thing is I've already mixed my 5000iu bottle but I have some more coming in anyway. 250iu daily for 3 weeks should not cause desensitization of leydig cells? Also my previous pct was Nova 30/20/10/10 Do you mean to say I should do another 4 weeks "pct" mid cycle run at low doses like 10/10/10/10? Finally I plan on doing as you guys have suggested and taking it pre pct as well. Would 1000iu 2-3x per week for two weeks stopping 4 days before my pct be sufficient? Also should I add Clomid into my pct this time around as well considering my lack of recovery time from the last?
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You're really not understanding and you haven't done anywhere near the amount of research that you should have done to start doing these cycles. So, if it was me, this is what I would do:

1. Finish your current cycle at your 12 week point without d*cking about with HCG. If it's an oral only (I can't remember and can't be arsed to look) then start straight away, if it's a short ester (prop or acetate) leave it a week, and if it's a long ester (Cyp or enanthate) leave it 2 weeks, then do a full PCT as follows:

Day 1 - 15 HCG at 1500IU EOD
Day 1 - 14 Clomid at 50mg ED
Day 1 - 14 Nolva at 40mg ED
Day 15 - 28 Clomid at 25mg ED
Day 15 - 42 Nolva at 20mg ED
Day 28 - 56 Exemestane at 10mg EOD reducing by 2.5mg EOD each week (this is a personal addition of mine, not strictly necessary)

2. You then need to look at taking the following as the minimum amount of time off before you cycle again:

Length of first cycle (which I think you said was 8 weeks
Length of first abortion of a PCT (which I think was 4 weeks of Nolva)
Length of second cycle (which I think was 12 weeks)
Length of time for esters to clear (either 0 weeks if oral only, 1 week for prop and 2 weeks for Cyp or enanthate as a general rule)
Length of time for PCT (using the one above that is 8 weeks)

Total length of time off should be by my reckoning either:

32 weeks off if "second cycle" was oral
33 weeks off if "second cycle" was short ester
34 weeks off if "second cycle" was long ester

To be honest, I would take a clear 9 months off after this cycle, and use it to research and plan. By the time you get to your next cycle, you'll have experience of what not to do, plus you'll have posted up your cycle layout for people to look at and will have it all nailed including PCT. Up to you, but that's what I would do.

Any questions, let us know.
 
Thanks for the feedback. While I generally agree with your statement about my lack of general knowledge I do research quite a bit. I looked a lot of other places for answers before I posted here.
Anyway, what im currently running is in my OP and I plan to run it for 15 weeks because im competing at IPL worlds in November. I'll more then likely be throwing in test suspension at 100mg/ed 1-2 weeks out from my meet.
I thought HCG needed to be discontinued before you started PCT?
Also I do plan to take about 5-6 months off after this.
 
allnatty9000 said:
Thanks for the feedback. While I generally agree with your statement about my lack of general knowledge I do research quite a bit. I looked a lot of other places for answers before I posted here. Anyway, what im currently running is in my OP and I plan to run it for 15 weeks because im competing at IPL worlds in November. I'll more then likely be throwing in test suspension at 100mg/ed 1-2 weeks out from my meet. I thought HCG needed to be discontinued before you started PCT? Also I do plan to take about 5-6 months off after this.
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Ok. I might have come across as blasting you and it wasn't meant to, so sorry about that.

HCG doesn't need to be discontinued depending on your PCT. Google Power PCT. 15 minutes and you'll be able to make your own decisions on what to do, trust me. It was the first time PCT became truly clear to me.
 
allnatty9000 said:
Thanks for the feedback. While I generally agree with your statement about my lack of general knowledge I do research quite a bit. I looked a lot of other places for answers before I posted here. Anyway, what im currently running is in my OP and I plan to run it for 15 weeks because im competing at IPL worlds in November. I'll more then likely be throwing in test suspension at 100mg/ed 1-2 weeks out from my meet. I thought HCG needed to be discontinued before you started PCT? Also I do plan to take about 5-6 months off after this.
Click to expand...

Oh, and good luck in your comp mate.
 
I cruise and blast

I pin 500 twice a week and get 1 normal scrotum size
2 a test kick

I read a study that indicated long term (3 years) can reduce leydig sensitivity by about 20%

I'll try to find it

Hope this helps
 
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