AMD Geeks
- Thread starter EEmain
- Start date
Grunt76
Well-known member
Intel's lead in movie encoding is nearly moot because most users couldn't care less wether a movie takes 3 hours or 2 hours and 38 minutes to encode.
Hey look my rep is going up? Must be because I have an AMD.
I haven't a clue why I was at -85 or so...
And yeah, talk about those AMD X2s compared to the lame Intels. It'll be possibly 2008 before Intel gets even with AMD although both the K9 and K10 are cancelled. Still, AMD is doing everything right.
Allegedly, the 64-bit is ALSO done much better on the AMD than on the Intel. Too bad it's hard to prove, not having decent software to test that on... Looking forward to 64-bit XViD...
Hey look my rep is going up? Must be because I have an AMD.
I haven't a clue why I was at -85 or so...And yeah, talk about those AMD X2s compared to the lame Intels. It'll be possibly 2008 before Intel gets even with AMD although both the K9 and K10 are cancelled. Still, AMD is doing everything right.
Allegedly, the 64-bit is ALSO done much better on the AMD than on the Intel. Too bad it's hard to prove, not having decent software to test that on... Looking forward to 64-bit XViD...
MarcusG
Board Supporter
EEmain said:
You're link doesn't directly compare bandwidth vs latency. All it shows is that the A64 isn't terribly sensitive to latency either because of its on-die controller. What I'm saying is that for the A64 latency is more important bandwidth. At some point higher bandwidth will compensate for lower latency but is it worth it?
The X2 is phenomenal. It beats Intel in everything including multimedia apps and encoding. The only downside is price and games are still single threaded. So a cheap gaming cpu is still a single core.
EEmain
Registered User
Wouldn`t a game at a higher resolution use more bandwidth? Or am I missing something here? (edit)Nevermind I reread and see it`s GPU limited.
I am trying to understand what you are saying but in MY limited experience there is more of a gain with a 2.65 cpu speed DDR440(5:6) (2-3-2-6) than 2.0 DDR400 2-2-2-5.(1:1)
I am trying to understand what you are saying but in MY limited experience there is more of a gain with a 2.65 cpu speed DDR440(5:6) (2-3-2-6) than 2.0 DDR400 2-2-2-5.(1:1)
BigVrunga
Well-known member
What's got me all excited is that the A64X2's are perfect for what I use my computer for - audio production/composition. My main piece of software is Sonar 5, and its the first Digital Audio Workstation front end to have a 64-bit architechture. The thing is freaking incredible on Windows XP 64 with the dual-core chip, or so Ive heard.
By the time Im ready to get one, Im sure some games will be out that use that technology too. But, I dont know how PC games are going to keep up with what's coming on the console market...have you guys seen the XBox360? Its got THREE 3GHz cores and its priced less than $400. Unreal.
BV
EEmain
Registered User
MarcusG said:
This would tend to show otherwise
Invalid Link Removed
When keeping CPU freq. the same and increasing bandwidth performance would increase on the E core even if
latency increases.
It is just as the the other article showed latency showing a 2-3% increase.
So maybe there is two schools of thought here. With this latency vs. bandwidth debate. And yes I understand you can`t saturate the on die controller because there is no zero timing. Unless you move the memory on die also:thumbsup: The we still would wait for the data from storage.
After rethinking my last post... there are different ways to increase bandwidth. To use the water anology you can increase the size of the pipe(data path) or the pressure(frequency). We can`t increase the size of the path because DDR is set.
(Unless we could send data every quarter cycle(QDR)) But we can increase the Frequency. And sending more data (higher resolution and settings) would also increase the
use of the available bandwidth. Also tighter timings would increase bandwidth use.
Ideally high freq. with low latency would be the best but most expensive. Unless your willing to run
at uber high voltage.
You`re right in implying it`s a cost verse benefit ratio. How much is a few points here or there worth? It`s your decision.
MarcusG
Board Supporter
EEmain said:
Video memory bandwidth(fillrates) has more of a direct correlation to output resolution not main memory bandwidth on A64 systems.
Of course your 2.65 cpu speed DDR440(5:6) (2-3-2-6) setup would be faster. Its has a 650Mhz cpu advantage!
Thats right, its only 2-3% because the latencies are very close.
The socket 754 systems perform very competitively despite having only half the memory bandwidth of the 939. The A64 is not bandwidth starved period. The X2 does seem to take better advantage of high bandwidth ram but still nothing earth shaking.
This post is a gem that compares bandwidth vs latency improvements.
Invalid Link Removed
foo.c
Board Supporter
#pragma old_man_rant ON
7-10 years ago you could save a lot of money overclocking. Just about everything you wanted to do was CPU limited, and having a high frame rate was crucial for gaming (especially good ol' Quake).
Getting every last bit of performance meant spending 5 seconds watching an hour glass instead of 10. Or waiting 2 minutes for your PC to boot vs. 4 minutes.
Now a days I can't even tell a difference between an OC'd CPU and a stock CPU. Nothing I actually do is CPU limited (I suppose you could argue multimedia encoding, but it's not like you sit there and wait for it to finish) and games have their frame rate capped.
If the only way I can tell a difference is via a synthetic benchmark, it's just not worth my time or money.
Plus I'm old now and the last thing I want to do is spend even more time in front of my computer.
Not trying to bash your accomplishment though, EE. Just my opinions about PC's and OC'ing today.
7-10 years ago you could save a lot of money overclocking. Just about everything you wanted to do was CPU limited, and having a high frame rate was crucial for gaming (especially good ol' Quake).
Getting every last bit of performance meant spending 5 seconds watching an hour glass instead of 10. Or waiting 2 minutes for your PC to boot vs. 4 minutes.
Now a days I can't even tell a difference between an OC'd CPU and a stock CPU. Nothing I actually do is CPU limited (I suppose you could argue multimedia encoding, but it's not like you sit there and wait for it to finish) and games have their frame rate capped.
If the only way I can tell a difference is via a synthetic benchmark, it's just not worth my time or money.
Plus I'm old now and the last thing I want to do is spend even more time in front of my computer.
Not trying to bash your accomplishment though, EE. Just my opinions about PC's and OC'ing today.
EEmain
Registered User
I spent hours removing the casing and making shims for the cache chips on a P2 to make good contact with the heat spreader. Why? Not because I saved $300 by running 466Mhz after this. But because I like doing it.
You can save bucks today if want to work for it. Take a X800GTO video card ($160) flash the bios and upgrade the cooling($30) and you got almost an X800XTPE($400). But don`t screw up or you may be out $160:aargh:
I do see the difference after working the CPU and Video card in all games.
Some people tweak cars, high end audio ect... OCers do computers:lol:
My extended family thinks I am nutz for pushing myself to near exhaustion with WOs.:jaw:
Whatever your bag is!
You can save bucks today if want to work for it. Take a X800GTO video card ($160) flash the bios and upgrade the cooling($30) and you got almost an X800XTPE($400). But don`t screw up or you may be out $160:aargh:
I do see the difference after working the CPU and Video card in all games.
Some people tweak cars, high end audio ect... OCers do computers:lol:
My extended family thinks I am nutz for pushing myself to near exhaustion with WOs.:jaw:
Whatever your bag is!
foo.c
Board Supporter
BigVrunga said:That's a big arm you've got there foo.c
You guys are making me fiend for that X2...have you seen the OC's those chips have been getting?
Hehe. Thanks, bro. My arms really aren't that big, just a good pic I guess.
I've got a 3800 X2 in my dev box, but I haven't bothered trying to OC it.
:run:
It was a nice upgrade from my 3200 but I could really only tell a difference when working with large datasets, and doing massive db updates. The dual cpu's really makes things nice and smooth even while sql server is chugging away.
doggzj
Board Supporter
Geeks, help me out here.
So, I think it is about time to hang up my current rig. She's ran good for many years, but it's nearing the end of the road. Back in HS I was huge in to computers and technology, but that was a few years back, and things change very fast in the Tech world. I don't know nearly what I used to, and I want to make sure I pick all the right parts for my new system.
First off, does anyone have any recommendations of where to get it from? I'm looking for Quality over Price. Normally I'd build it myself, but that just isn't me anymore. I'm definately willing to pay the price to have it prebuilt to my specifications. Any help here would be great.
For the computer: I use my computer for work and play. I am not the gamer I used to be, but I can't help but want the super computer I never could get back in HS. I'm definately going to be spending a good ammount on this rig, because my computer is my life (seriously).
For work, Screen realestate is what I need the most. The apps I run are not very demanding, but I want them to run smooth and as fast as possible.
For play, I just plan on going as fast as possible :lol:
CPU
I'm not sure if I should go X2 4800+ or FX-57. I'm leaning on the Duel core because I always have many apps running at the same time
Mobo
I have no idea here. Some places don't even let you pick which board you get. Help?
Video
I'm definately going SLI. I need 2 cards for works anyway, so I might as well go all out. I'm either going with the 7800GTX 256mb or 512mb. How much of an advantage will the extra memory give me?
Memory
I'm going to get 2gigs just so I don't have to add any in the future. Is there any advantage to using 2x1g verses 4x512mb? Most companies won't use the 1g sticks because of price.
HDs
Definately going to get some type of Raid 0. I don't think anything has changed here, but who knows?
Cooling
One of the sites I've looked at is Alienware. Yes, i know they are more expensive, but like I said I just want something that I don't have to fix. Their high end systems all come with liquid cooling. Back in the day this wasn't exactly a great option because of leaks, replacing fluid, and other problems. Is it any different today?
I know there is a lot of stuff here, but I just don't want to make a mistake in my purchase. Help me out guys! :djparty:
So, I think it is about time to hang up my current rig. She's ran good for many years, but it's nearing the end of the road. Back in HS I was huge in to computers and technology, but that was a few years back, and things change very fast in the Tech world. I don't know nearly what I used to, and I want to make sure I pick all the right parts for my new system.
First off, does anyone have any recommendations of where to get it from? I'm looking for Quality over Price. Normally I'd build it myself, but that just isn't me anymore. I'm definately willing to pay the price to have it prebuilt to my specifications. Any help here would be great.
For the computer: I use my computer for work and play. I am not the gamer I used to be, but I can't help but want the super computer I never could get back in HS. I'm definately going to be spending a good ammount on this rig, because my computer is my life (seriously).
For work, Screen realestate is what I need the most. The apps I run are not very demanding, but I want them to run smooth and as fast as possible.
For play, I just plan on going as fast as possible :lol:
CPU
I'm not sure if I should go X2 4800+ or FX-57. I'm leaning on the Duel core because I always have many apps running at the same time
Mobo
I have no idea here. Some places don't even let you pick which board you get. Help?
Video
I'm definately going SLI. I need 2 cards for works anyway, so I might as well go all out. I'm either going with the 7800GTX 256mb or 512mb. How much of an advantage will the extra memory give me?
Memory
I'm going to get 2gigs just so I don't have to add any in the future. Is there any advantage to using 2x1g verses 4x512mb? Most companies won't use the 1g sticks because of price.
HDs
Definately going to get some type of Raid 0. I don't think anything has changed here, but who knows?
Cooling
One of the sites I've looked at is Alienware. Yes, i know they are more expensive, but like I said I just want something that I don't have to fix. Their high end systems all come with liquid cooling. Back in the day this wasn't exactly a great option because of leaks, replacing fluid, and other problems. Is it any different today?
I know there is a lot of stuff here, but I just don't want to make a mistake in my purchase. Help me out guys! :djparty:
Grunt76
Well-known member
Go with the X2. Most games are still single-threaded, but they will be multithreaded real soon, plus it gives you the advantage of running more apps smoothly. And it still plenty fast in single-thread mode.
Mobo: DFI Lan Party mobos are all the rage.
Video. The 512Mb 7800GTXs are MUCH more overclockable than the 256mb variant because they all have the better silicon and memory. If you ever need to squeeze out more of your vid cards, the 512s are the ones that will help you. As far as 512/256 in terms of performance or image quality, there isn't much diff RIGHT NOW, but of course it won't be the case in the (near) future. So the 512mb cards are the way to go for longevity if you have the extra $.
2 gigs is good. Get 2 x 1Gb, you never know, you COULD need 4Gb sometime. Now 4 Gb might not run at the full 400Mhz but more memory is sometimes better even if it runs a little bit slower, i.e. overall system performance is increased even though the memory part of the system is a little bit slower. Low-latency, higher-MHz rated modules are of course preferred. 4x512Mb is BAD because you mostly cannot get the same memory performance out of 4 modules than out of 2... Timings, latencies and Mhz are ALL affected.
HDs = Get the 16Mb cache SATA models, with NCQ. If you don't have NCQ on your mobo, you might think of getting a diff mobo or a NCQ controller, that makes a big diff. Get the Seagate drives, they are among the quietest and are the only ones with a true 5-year warranty.
Cooling. You will be forever thankful of old Grunt76 if you get this: Invalid Link Removed
It's 0dB, water-based cooling that lets you fill the liquid completely outside the case, which makes leaks unlikely. Moreover it cools the system down very well.
If you can do it, find someone who's a true techhead and buy all the parts and let him build your system. That's the only way you'll have all the right things. Of course Voodoo and Alien are great, but they are very pricey and they might STILL not let you have it EXACTLY the way you want it.
Mobo: DFI Lan Party mobos are all the rage.
Video. The 512Mb 7800GTXs are MUCH more overclockable than the 256mb variant because they all have the better silicon and memory. If you ever need to squeeze out more of your vid cards, the 512s are the ones that will help you. As far as 512/256 in terms of performance or image quality, there isn't much diff RIGHT NOW, but of course it won't be the case in the (near) future. So the 512mb cards are the way to go for longevity if you have the extra $.
2 gigs is good. Get 2 x 1Gb, you never know, you COULD need 4Gb sometime. Now 4 Gb might not run at the full 400Mhz but more memory is sometimes better even if it runs a little bit slower, i.e. overall system performance is increased even though the memory part of the system is a little bit slower. Low-latency, higher-MHz rated modules are of course preferred. 4x512Mb is BAD because you mostly cannot get the same memory performance out of 4 modules than out of 2... Timings, latencies and Mhz are ALL affected.
HDs = Get the 16Mb cache SATA models, with NCQ. If you don't have NCQ on your mobo, you might think of getting a diff mobo or a NCQ controller, that makes a big diff. Get the Seagate drives, they are among the quietest and are the only ones with a true 5-year warranty.
Cooling. You will be forever thankful of old Grunt76 if you get this: Invalid Link Removed
It's 0dB, water-based cooling that lets you fill the liquid completely outside the case, which makes leaks unlikely. Moreover it cools the system down very well.
If you can do it, find someone who's a true techhead and buy all the parts and let him build your system. That's the only way you'll have all the right things. Of course Voodoo and Alien are great, but they are very pricey and they might STILL not let you have it EXACTLY the way you want it.
MarcusG
Board Supporter
The best thing going on for AMD is the dual core opterons because of its overclockability. Unfortunately the price shot up. $50 for the 165.
With the SLI because you get so little out of the big expense imo. And by time the next gen comes around, a new card would be faster than the SLI setup. The 78xx series is overrated and do not give good bang/buck. I predict the next gen to blow it out of the water.
Grunt is incorrect about 4x512 being bad. It is only true for the older winchester models and earlier. The venice can run at 400 at 2T.The hit from the 2T command rate is insignificant.
Also 16Mb cache and NCQ doesn't mean it faster. Those features cannot be used to gauge performance _across_ manufacturers.
My preferred brands are Samsung and Hitachi. They are quieter and run cooler than seagates. Samsungs are the most reliable brand period. Hitachi's the fastest drives around apart from raptors. Seagates bumped the warranty as a make good gesture when their reliability dropped during the reduced warranty period.
If you are not going to build your own rig, I'd stick to air. The heatsink on the opterons is a beast and can hit 3g on air. The higher end X2s are pretty decent also.
With the SLI because you get so little out of the big expense imo. And by time the next gen comes around, a new card would be faster than the SLI setup. The 78xx series is overrated and do not give good bang/buck. I predict the next gen to blow it out of the water.
Grunt is incorrect about 4x512 being bad. It is only true for the older winchester models and earlier. The venice can run at 400 at 2T.The hit from the 2T command rate is insignificant.
Also 16Mb cache and NCQ doesn't mean it faster. Those features cannot be used to gauge performance _across_ manufacturers.
My preferred brands are Samsung and Hitachi. They are quieter and run cooler than seagates. Samsungs are the most reliable brand period. Hitachi's the fastest drives around apart from raptors. Seagates bumped the warranty as a make good gesture when their reliability dropped during the reduced warranty period.
If you are not going to build your own rig, I'd stick to air. The heatsink on the opterons is a beast and can hit 3g on air. The higher end X2s are pretty decent also.
EEmain
Registered User
Opinions... everybody got one... just as everybody has favorites.
But money no object:icon_lol:
Motherboard Invalid Link Removed
CPU Invalid Link Removed
Memory Invalid Link Removed
Video Invalid Link Removed
Powersupply Invalid Link Removed
Case Invalid Link Removed
Monitor x2 Invalid Link Removed
Hard drives WD Raptors 72gig
Of course no need to OC this bear:wave:
Take about 3 hours to build... and 4 years to pay for:lol:
If you will build 2... I will come over and do it. But I am leaving with one
of them:jaw:
But money no object:icon_lol:
Motherboard Invalid Link Removed
CPU Invalid Link Removed
Memory Invalid Link Removed
Video Invalid Link Removed
Powersupply Invalid Link Removed
Case Invalid Link Removed
Monitor x2 Invalid Link Removed
Hard drives WD Raptors 72gig
Of course no need to OC this bear:wave:
Take about 3 hours to build... and 4 years to pay for:lol:
If you will build 2... I will come over and do it. But I am leaving with one
of them:jaw:
-Optional-
New member
Mind posting a bench of your mem bandwidth? Btw those memory timmings are nice and tight. Do you use Memtest86 to test for stability?
Anyway, nice overclock..:FUfinger:
edit: I haven't seen the new drives since the Diamond Max 10 was out. And the reviews it got were outstanding. Posted almost the same read/write speeds as raptors ( in raid O confg) + they blow the doors off raptors in the storage department...
-O-
Anyway, nice overclock..:FUfinger:
edit: I haven't seen the new drives since the Diamond Max 10 was out. And the reviews it got were outstanding. Posted almost the same read/write speeds as raptors ( in raid O confg) + they blow the doors off raptors in the storage department...
-O-
EEmain
Registered User
-Optional- said:
Memtest is good but doesn`t confirm Windows stability. I only use it to check the memory with Test 5- 3 pass go into Windows and run OCCT torture. Then Prime95 around the clock to insure 100% stability. This is very important as small errors over time will hose Windows.
Why the FUfinger you got a sour :frustrate 3200+?
EEmain
Registered User
Just ran this for you and saved it in text.
SiSoftware Sandra
Benchmark Results
RAM Bandwidth Int Buff'd iSSE2 : 6366 MB/s
RAM Bandwidth Float Buff'd iSSE2 : 6310 MB/s
Results Interpretation : Higher index values are better.
Int Buff'd iSSE2 (Integer STREAM) Results Breakdown
Assignment : 6445MB/s
Scaling : 6455MB/s
Addition : 6283MB/s
Triad : 6284MB/s
Data Item Size : 16 byte(s)
Buffering Used : Yes
Offset Displacement Used : Yes
Bandwidth Efficiency : 92% (estimated)
Float Buff'd iSSE2 (Float STREAM) Results Breakdown
Assignment : 6449MB/s
Scaling : 6427MB/s
Addition : 6206MB/s
Triad : 6159MB/s
Data Item Size : 16 byte(s)
Buffering Used : Yes
Offset Displacement Used : Yes
Bandwidth Efficiency : 91% (estimated)
SiSoftware Sandra
Benchmark Results
Combined Index : 7061 MB/s
Speed Factor : 6.4
2kB Blocks : 18944 MB/s
4kB Blocks : 19696 MB/s
8kB Blocks : 20138 MB/s
16kB Blocks : 20081 MB/s
32kB Blocks : 17548 MB/s
64kB Blocks : 16408 MB/s
128kB Blocks : 12500 MB/s
256kB Blocks : 10886 MB/s
512kB Blocks : 10811 MB/s
1MB Blocks : 3173 MB/s
4MB Blocks : 3149 MB/s
16MB Blocks : 3138 MB/s
64MB Blocks : 3135 MB/s
256MB Blocks : 3138 MB/s
Results Interpretation : Higher index values are better.
SiSoftware Sandra
Benchmark Results
RAM Bandwidth Int Buff'd iSSE2 : 6366 MB/s
RAM Bandwidth Float Buff'd iSSE2 : 6310 MB/s
Results Interpretation : Higher index values are better.
Int Buff'd iSSE2 (Integer STREAM) Results Breakdown
Assignment : 6445MB/s
Scaling : 6455MB/s
Addition : 6283MB/s
Triad : 6284MB/s
Data Item Size : 16 byte(s)
Buffering Used : Yes
Offset Displacement Used : Yes
Bandwidth Efficiency : 92% (estimated)
Float Buff'd iSSE2 (Float STREAM) Results Breakdown
Assignment : 6449MB/s
Scaling : 6427MB/s
Addition : 6206MB/s
Triad : 6159MB/s
Data Item Size : 16 byte(s)
Buffering Used : Yes
Offset Displacement Used : Yes
Bandwidth Efficiency : 91% (estimated)
SiSoftware Sandra
Benchmark Results
Combined Index : 7061 MB/s
Speed Factor : 6.4
2kB Blocks : 18944 MB/s
4kB Blocks : 19696 MB/s
8kB Blocks : 20138 MB/s
16kB Blocks : 20081 MB/s
32kB Blocks : 17548 MB/s
64kB Blocks : 16408 MB/s
128kB Blocks : 12500 MB/s
256kB Blocks : 10886 MB/s
512kB Blocks : 10811 MB/s
1MB Blocks : 3173 MB/s
4MB Blocks : 3149 MB/s
16MB Blocks : 3138 MB/s
64MB Blocks : 3135 MB/s
256MB Blocks : 3138 MB/s
Results Interpretation : Higher index values are better.
doggzj
Board Supporter
I think I'm going to go with the newest Voodoo PC Because I can get all the options I want. I'll post the specs when I get it ordered :dance:
I used DFI before anyone even knew who they were. This was way back before Lanparty. They were great boards for OC and for speed, but damn are they power-finicy. I'm not planning on OCing much anymore, so the power crashes just aren't worth it. I'd love to use DFI if they could come out with a more stable board, for the non-oc people.
I used DFI before anyone even knew who they were. This was way back before Lanparty. They were great boards for OC and for speed, but damn are they power-finicy. I'm not planning on OCing much anymore, so the power crashes just aren't worth it. I'd love to use DFI if they could come out with a more stable board, for the non-oc people.
MarcusG
Board Supporter
Cpuburn may be a better program for stability testing as it was designed for stress testing. There doesn't seem to be an update for a long time though.
DFI was never a big enthusiast brand (basic, no tweaking and not stable overclocking) until Oscar from Abit came aboard and designed the Lanparty.
DFI was never a big enthusiast brand (basic, no tweaking and not stable overclocking) until Oscar from Abit came aboard and designed the Lanparty.
-Optional-
New member
EEmain said:
I'm more or less jelous
! I got a 3200+ socket 754 Newcastle. In a DFI Lanparty nf3 240Gb. Best overclock I got was 2.4 because of RAM tolerance. The chip can go higher I can feel it 
.Thanks for posting that bench!
-O-